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 Viper1E
Joined: 11/30/2011
Msg: 281
Gay RightsPage 10 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
No I am saying you do not understand that there is no standard to how humans come out, we are all different, some more than others, but these differences are not abnormalities, only differences.


It has to become an abnormality at some point. It's inevitable by it's very nature. Look at medicine. There comes a point when something stops being a "side effect" and becomes an "effect". For instance, Rogaine was an acne medicine, until they found out it grew hair on everyone that took it.

So is the hair growth an "abnormality"?

When the majority has an effect, that effect then becomes "normal". The side effect is not "different", it's an"abnormality".

Siamese twins aren't "different", they're abnormal.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 282
Gay Rights
Posted: 1/3/2012 6:07:36 AM

It has to become an abnormality at some point. It's inevitable by it's very nature. Look at medicine. There comes a point when something stops being a "side effect" and becomes an "effect". For instance, Rogaine was an acne medicine, until they found out it grew hair on everyone that took it.

So is the hair growth an "abnormality"?

When you take a drug any resulting outcome from that drug regardless how prevalent, is a side effort of the drug.

It is not an effect of the drug and to say such, would be to simultaneously fail of both English and Biology at the same time.




When the majority has an effect, that effect then becomes "normal". The side effect is not "different", it's an"abnormality".

That makes absolutely no sense and speaks of a lack of knowledge with respect to medical terminology.




Siamese twins aren't "different", they're abnormal.

So people born with different amounts of melanin in their skin are different so they must be abnormal then right?

So they should be treated differently because they are as you say: abnormal?
 Viper1E
Joined: 11/30/2011
Msg: 283
Gay Rights
Posted: 1/3/2012 8:55:44 AM
So people born with different amounts of melanin in their skin are different so they must be abnormal then right?

So they should be treated differently because they are as you say: abnormal?


They have been for centuries, and still are.

Guess what? Water is also wet.

And you still have to deal with both outcomes.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 284
Gay Rights
Posted: 1/3/2012 9:01:10 AM
Ok understood, discriminating is ok because people have been doing it since the beginning of time.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 285
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 9:57:30 AM
Question for liberals:

If you find it ok for 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 & 14 year olds to "choose" to be transgender and take hormones, etc, , why couldn't Yianoplous"choose" to be with a man at 14?


Thanks in advance to people actually answering the question.
 halcyon_skies
Joined: 7/27/2015
Msg: 286
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 11:22:15 AM
I don’t really identify as a liberal---however, I’ll try to answer the question.

Pedophilia laws were put into place to protect all children from being molested by adults, which could result in pregnancy, AIDS, other sexually-transmitted diseases, as well as physical and emotional injury to the child. The laws shouldn’t be changed just to please a few sexually precocious adolescents who want to experiment--such as Yiannopoulos.

Transgenders are people who feel they were born into the wrong body. The children should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis by mental health professionals, and under certain circumstances, be allowed to transition before puberty, when they would start to display the secondary sexual characteristics of the gender in which they don’t identify. These are cases where the mental health professionals deem it to be more psychologically damaging to the child if (s)he is forced to go through puberty.

Apples and Oranges.
 IMayBeCrazy_But
Joined: 12/28/2016
Msg: 287
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 11:27:57 AM
I'm unaffiliated and have a couple transgendered friends...first allow me to suggest that they have NOT "chosen" to be transgendered. Their lives have not been easy and if given the "choice"....I'm pretty sure they would have stayed the sex they were born as...physically. It's like truly "gay" people usually don't choose to be homosexual...they just are.
I hired a sixteen year old girl named Jenna while I was working at a craft store...she was going to parochial school at the time. She shared that she was a virgin, but still went out on dates with guys. Then...she became a lesbian (still a virgin) and had a steady girlfriend. Everyone was cool with that, but then...she started a GoFund me account to help with her total mastectomy; I think she was around 26 at the time. Now...she has a beard, no breasts and goes by the name of Jay. He says he's always known who he was, but found it too difficult to "come out" before he did. Life hasn't been easy for Jenna or Jay and that's a shame because he's a stellar person. He's also a super duper mega conservative US vet...as if that matters.
Aaand then there's my friend Brandon. He dresses like a man for work....mainly because he's like 6'2" and can't "pass" as a woman, but off-duty...she's Victoria...and stunning. She's content living the way she does without hormones and no plans of surgery.
I don't think a child ages 8-14 should be on hormones, but if the child claims to feel like a girl/boy while their body tells them something else...they're probably right.

Yiannopoulos...that's just about sex. The legal age of consent to have sex varies state to state. An adult cannot have sex with a fourteen year old child; regardless of gender...without the words "statutory rape" coming to my mind.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 288
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 12:05:07 PM
I don't understand. If you think that a 14 year old is mature enough to choose to change genders (it is "choosing" because it takes affirmative steps) and get an abortion, why can't the 14 year old choose a sex partner, even if it is an adult?


If you trust how they "feel" about their gender, why don't trust how they "feel" about their partners?

Also, is a 14 yo. "Pedophilia?"

Why does the,age of consent vary from state to state? Is it all random or arbitray?


I think that they are all bad ideas. Just wondering how you jusify one snd not the other.
 IMayBeCrazy_But
Joined: 12/28/2016
Msg: 289
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 1:00:44 PM

Why does the,age of consent vary from state to state? Is it all random or arbitray?

Seriously, Dee? Google it if you want to learn more.


If you trust how they "feel" about their gender, why don't trust how they "feel" about their partners?

I have a thirteen year old daughter and a fourteen year old son...neither have "partners" and they wont...for some time. I assure you. If either one of them told me they felt as if they were born in the wrong body...I'd take them to see a therapist and if it's what they really want to do...they can do it after they're eighteen; with my support.


Also, is a 14 yo. "Pedophilia?"

If the fourteen year old has sex with a 14, 15, 16 or 17 year old...no. But if the fourteen year old has sex with a forty-year old...yes.


I don't understand. If you think that a 14 year old is mature enough to choose to change genders (it is "choosing" because it takes affirmative steps) and get an abortion, why can't the 14 year old choose a sex partner, even if it is an adult?

Where was abortion even mentioned???
 halcyon_skies
Joined: 7/27/2015
Msg: 290
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 1:17:32 PM

I don't understand. If you think that a 14 year old is mature enough to choose to change genders (it is "choosing" because it takes affirmative steps) and get an abortion, why can't the 14 year old choose a sex partner, even if it is an adult?


Parental consent should play a role in any case involving a child, whether it's a gender change, or having sex.

In the case of Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau, age 12, Vili's mother didn't approve, and she rightfully went to prison before she was able to marry him once he turned 18. Courtney Stodden, 16, and Doug Hutchison had the permission of her parents to marry, therefore, it was legal.

Vili Fualaau was sexually mature at age 12, and made Mary Kay Letourneau pregnant. By law, she's still considered to be a pedophile.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 291
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 1:26:22 PM
Ok, maybe.
As you don't think it ok, we agree.

I guess the question should be answered by someone who does think one is ok and not the other.

Thanks. I appreciate your responses.
(By the way, I didn't ask what the different ages are. I wanted your opinion as to why, but never mind. )

How was Yianopolous saying that he wanted the relationship with the older man, at 14, promoting pedophilia?

He is a weird, sick person who I would never voluntarily see or have any contact with him but just wondering about the general characterization of what he said.

________######

Didn't we learn from the whole "marriage" debacle that laws can change ? So the law appears to be,arbitrary these days. Whimsical, almost.

Getting on my plane. .Good day, all. Tired of airports. Ha!
 Jo van
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 292
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 1:46:49 PM
Well Dee,
I'm no expert in this field, and I'm more socialist, than liberal.
But "The virgin Mary" was supposedly just 12 or 13, when "god" knocked her up.
She was frightened, but the "holy spirit came upon her" anyway.
He wasn't married to her, she was already "betrothed" to a middle-aged man, so "god" also broke his own "rule", about coveting his neighbour's wife's ass".
As he's supposedly also "the father" of everyone, technically, it was also incest.
AFAIK., He never paid a penny in child maintenance either.
Then, he gives the job of "saviour" to his own son.
that's just pure nepotism!

As far as "gay" people goes, well, I suppose it's better than being miserable.

As for "trans-gender", you'd better talk to Marilyn.
One day she's a big, 6'5" tall, "guy", phew, that IS big,
the next she's a 5'4" lady.
Then she's a "man" again.
Then a lady....
Then a man..

I know.

Not that I'm being judgeMENTAL!!!!! here, or anything. No siree.

Personally, I think you spend far too much time and mental energy, worrying about other people's choices.
But as we are: Those shoes, with that top
Are you sure
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 293
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 3:21:06 PM
Because there are physical changes that are going to happen with transgender children that may need treatment or surgery to stop them from maturing into a gender they do not want to be.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 294
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 3:36:07 PM
uh oh, even not-so-Bright-bart wants to be associated with Milo Yiannopoulos, concerning pedophilia

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/02/21/business/milo-yiannopoulos-resigns-from-breitbart-news-after-pedophilia-comments.html?_r=0

I would say, there's a difference between wanting to make medical decisions about one' body, like

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/connecticut-teen-curable-cancer-must-continue-chemo-court-n282421

(Dee will like that the government stepped in and made things right ;) )

is different from deciding who to play doctor with.
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 295
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 8:02:40 PM
deetristate- Ok, I'll bite, please don't make me regret this.
You are right, the age of consent varies state to state. Why that is goes to the fact that with some laws, the government lets the state decide the age.
That usually changes when a lawsuit of some sort is filed and it goes all the way to the supreme court and becomes the law of the land, taking whatever the issue was out of the states hands and making it the law in the entire country.
As a nurse, I can tell you that no nurse, doctor, or any medical professional, can perform ANY type of procedure without consent from a LEGAL parent (on minor's, I mean).
When transgender minors start receiving hormones, it is because their LEGAL custodian signed paperwork and allowed it. HOWEVER, state law would have to allow the parent TO give consent. (the same goes for surgery, of course)
Nurses, doctors, any medical professional, that finds themselves in an ethical dilemma concerning what someone wants verses the law must follow the law in the state in which they practice.
As far as your question about minors and pedophilia, once again, the age of consent varies by state, but in states where it's illegal and considered pedophilia, the law would trump any parent that might TRY to give consent to let their child participate in an child/adult relationship.
(I just threw up in my mouth a little typing that)
I hope that clarifies things for you.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 296
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 8:23:30 PM
Thanks. Your position and beliefs on this are very clear.
I appreciate the (mostly) civil discussion from respondents.

By the way, I found this:
""""""""Teenagers are not children. The term for an adult who is sexually attracted to teenagers -- to someone entering or in puberty, but who is not yet a full-grown adult is, instead hebephile or ephebephile. Unlike pedophilia, it is not listed in the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders.""""""""


I got the irony in your post, jovan. Bravo.
Early flight. Goodnight all.
 forumslady
Joined: 12/7/2016
Msg: 297
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/22/2017 9:04:03 PM
deetristate- "Thanks. Your position and beliefs on this are very clear."
When you are back on again, maybe you can tell us whom you were addressing with this.

Goodnight.
 drinkthesunwithmyface
Joined: 3/27/2012
Msg: 298
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/23/2017 4:09:14 PM

If you find it ok for 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 & 14 year olds to "choose" to be transgender and take hormones, etc, , why couldn't Yianoplous"choose" to be with a man at 14?

If you think that a 14 year old is mature enough to choose to change genders (it is "choosing" because it takes affirmative steps) and get an abortion, why can't the 14 year old choose a sex partner, even if it is an adult?


If you trust how they "feel" about their gender, why don't trust how they "feel" about their partners?

Is this a joke? Are you kidding?

You done lost your mind, fo rizzle.
 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 299
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/24/2017 7:00:30 AM

Question for liberals:

If you find it ok for 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 & 14 year olds to "choose" to be transgender and take hormones, etc, , why couldn't Yianoplous"choose" to be with a man at 14?


QuestionS for you conservatives, and especially you, Dee.....(actually, how about we ask EVERYONE?????)

What do you think caused your heterosexuality?

When did you DECIDE your were heterosexual?

Is it possible that your heterosexuality is a phase you may grow out of ?

Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Why can't you just be quiet about it?

Why do you heterosexuals feel compelled to reduce others to your lifestyle?

Have you considered therapy to change your heterosexual tendencies?

Seems kinda of silly, no?

That's because it is.

Your question Dee, is like comparing Apples to Oranges, as some have pointed out. At what point in your society did "age" become relevant to say, when marriage happens? (don't forget about what USE to happen when America was great) How about the legal consumption of alcohol? How about the age when you let your child decide, for himself, if he can go fight, protect and die for your country?????

Your questions posed Dee have, again, defined the type of person you are.

When people say they are no stupid questions,

they lied.

Oooops. Edit to add, I stole the questions from a prof.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 300
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/24/2017 7:54:33 AM
Despite the unresponsive namecalling of the two posts above mine, and despite that they offer no refutation of the question, are raising immaterial issues because they have no basis upon which to object to the questions actually posed, (because people are obsessed with me), and have once again, made ME the subject, I will play because they are entertaining if insipid and I have time to kill in the airport.

(and no, Irish/Walts, I still won't date you)


--------------,-,
Questions for you conservatives, and especially you, Dee.....(actually, how about we ask EVERYONE?????)

A: "What is a "conservative?" Anyway,

What do you think caused your heterosexuality?
A: My heterosexuality was caused by the same thing that caused me to have two eyes, two arms, two feet and the need to eat, sleep, eliminate waste, breathe, drink,


When did you DECIDE your were heterosexual?
A: See above. No one has to decide. You can decide to be otherwise or anorexic, or anal retentive or get into s&m or homosexuality or threesomes or swinging, etc.

Is it possible that your heterosexuality is a phase you may grow out of ?
A: No more than I will grow out of having two legs and the need to breathe.

Why do you insist on flaunting your heterosexuality? Why can't you just be quiet about it?
A: I flaunt it as much as I flaunt having two eyes, two arms and needing to eat, breathe, etc.

Why do you heterosexuals feel compelled to reduce others to your lifestyle?
A:People can be any bizzare thing that they want. Just don't demand that others participate, acknowledge or normalize it. If you want to believe that you are a queen, carryon. Just don't expect me to call you Sheba or Elizabeth or courtsey.

Have you considered therapy to change your heterosexual tendencies?
A:No. No more than I considered cutting off a leg or putting out an eye or becoming a bulemic.

Seems kinda of silly, no?
A:Yes, your questions are kind of silly. But fun to answer (although they are overused, tired and somewhat maudlin).


That's because it is.

Your question Dee, is like comparing Apples to Oranges, as some have pointed out. At what point in your society did "age" become relevant to say, when marriage happens? (don't forget about what USE to happen when America was great) How about the legal consumption of alcohol? How about the age when you let your child decide, for himself, if he can go fight, protect and die for your country?????

A: Exactly. That was the next question posed. Why exactly. I guess you can't answer or give an opinion on this. (So you start talking about enlisting in the armed services?) Why you are arguing about a question posed would be bizzare from anyone not as obsessed with me as you are but because you are obsessed, it is not unusual or surprising.



 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 301
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/25/2017 6:00:02 AM

Questions for you conservatives, and especially you, Dee.....(actually, how about we ask EVERYONE?????)

A: "What is a "conservative?" Anyway,


Back at ya, since you started with the labelling with your initial question ,,,,what's a "liberal"??????


When did you DECIDE your were heterosexual?
A: See above. No one has to decide. You can decide to be otherwise or anorexic, or anal retentive or get into s&m or homosexuality or threesomes or swinging, etc.


With the list you have given you have decided to throw the "decision" to be "homosexual" in with sexual play?????? And of course the mental issue of anorexia?????? Are you as ignorant and ill informed as the examples you give?



(and no, Irish/Walts, I still won't date you)


Who's asking? I don't do Vanilla young lady. And you are as Vanilla as they come, again, confirmed by the ignorant statements you make. And at your age, I'm sure you wouldn't be able to get up after being on your knees for more than 5 minutes. Won't work for me.


Your question Dee, is like comparing Apples to Oranges, as some have pointed out. At what point in your society did "age" become relevant to say, when marriage happens? (don't forget about what USE to happen when America was great) How about the legal consumption of alcohol? How about the age when you let your child decide, for himself, if he can go fight, protect and die for your country?????

A: Exactly. That was the next question posed. Why exactly. I guess you can't answer or give an opinion on this. (So you start talking about enlisting in the armed services?) Why you are arguing about a question posed would be bizzare from anyone not as obsessed with me as you are but because you are obsessed, it is not unusual or surprising.


Had to quote it all, you know, to keep it "in context". So, I ask , "Why exactly" WHAT?????? The rest, well, interpreter required.

Remember,,,,,you originally posted this......


Question for liberals:

If you find it ok for 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 & 14 year olds to "choose" to be transgender and take hormones, etc, , why couldn't Yianoplous"choose" to be with a man at 14?


The word "choose" to "be" transgender?????? Do you actually know the definition of "transgender"? An understanding of Biology is a bonus here. And with this Yianoplous fellow. To "be with a man" at, any age, is choice of an sexual ACT. Not the same as sexual IDENTITY. It's why I laughed at you when you decided to throw "threesomes, swinging, and S&M" into the discussion. If your son decided to "be" with a woman when he was 9 years old, would you have sat and nodded in agreement??????

Sexual acts and sexual identity.

You should at, the very least, try to understand that there is a difference.

You don't get to chose who you are, and who you love. You just do. Remember your ex?????? If it was a matter of "choice" there wouldn't be a need for a site like POF.
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 302
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/25/2017 6:29:21 AM
So you've got nothing.
( You can't even recognize what you posted. LOL!)

Thanks for playing.
(That is your attention quota for the week. )

 Walts
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 303
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/25/2017 6:50:07 AM

So you've got nothing.



Nothing that can register in your mind, simple as it may be.


Keep as ignorant as you can. Your kids will love you for it, and of course, "your" country.




 _babblefish
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 304
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/25/2017 9:48:08 AM


If you find it ok for 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13 & 14 year olds to "choose" to be transgender and take hormones, etc, , why couldn't Yianoplous"choose" to be with a man at 14?



I don't understand. If you think that a 14 year old is mature enough to choose to change genders (it is "choosing" because it takes affirmative steps) and get an abortion, why can't the 14 year old choose a sex partner, even if it is an adult?


*throws up arms, what we have here is an illegal goal post move

5 yards
 deetristate
Joined: 12/4/2014
Msg: 305
Gay Rights
Posted: 2/25/2017 2:12:05 PM
That's what you call "I keep forgetting the level of people I am dealing with" who couldn't get it so you present it again and speak slowly.


And some(one)continue to refuse to respond to the actual question by questioning the question instead.
(They perceive themself in stripes, with a whistle?)

They got nothin'


Try again. Ha!
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