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 DudeistPriest
Joined: 3/30/2009
Msg: 26
Gay RightsPage 2 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
"There is no evidence of homosexuality being anything other than a choice. Since I put my faith in God's word and He doesn't condemn that which is genetic. I believe it is someone's chosing. No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking. I have spoken my beliefs to many homosexuals.
I refuse to walk on eggshells to not offend. It is God I follow not man."


When I was an alter boy, Fr. Patrick told me it wasn't a sin. Then he gave me milk and cookies and FIVE WHOLE DOLLARS!
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 27
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 4:14:17 AM
How did this become a debate on Homosexuality...

I thought the issue was that "Gay" folk were upset that people{kids} are calling things or each other "gay" in a derogatory manor-meaning.

friends of mine say their kids call each other gay or comment on things they do as gay..."Youre so gay" or "Thats so gay" in a derogatory manner.

So if you dont like Gay people, is it ok that kids use the word Gay in a drogatory manor...?

and if your angry that Gay folk have captured the word gay and made it their own, is it ok that kids use it in a derogatory manor?

And for you self-proclaimed christians, is it ok for kids to use any word to describe any other person in a derogatory manor? ...Is using the word Gay in a derogatory manor OK?

And what if kids were to used the word "Christian" in a derogatory manor..."Oh thats so christian"...or "Youre so Christian", and mean it in a derogatory manor...would you be offended?
 Annonimiss
Joined: 12/26/2008
Msg: 28
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 7:16:48 AM
hmmm. and what of the people (females) that were named "Gay" at birth? They should have to change their names because some homosexuals want exclusive rights to the word?

It's unfortuneate for the homosexual people that some draw such negativity to themselves as a "whole", by such whiny little complaints and demands. It makes me wonder if they are running out of actual "discrimination" to complain about ... and just need a "cause" ?
 uni1824
Joined: 3/26/2008
Msg: 29
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 9:05:32 AM

: There is no evidence of homosexuality being anything other than a choice. Since I put my faith in God's word and He doesn't condemn that which is genetic. I believe it is someone's chosing. No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking. I have spoken my beliefs to many homosexuals.
I refuse to walk on eggshells to not offend. It is God I follow not man.


One can only hope that people who think like this will someday be as socially marginalized as racists, sexists and bigots of all types. I've never known anyone whose "chosing" of his/her sexuality was that overt. (I don't remember waking up one morning and thinking "oh, I'll wear my khakis and white shirt today, go out for dinner tonight and be hetero". You can choose your actions but not your orientation and, since being gay or having gay sex isn't harmful to anyone, it's of no importance to anyone else.

To wboydsp: people have used the Bible for centuries to justify everything from slavery to the Holocaust. I challenge you to go beyond what you think is true and engage the subject head-on. Talk to people and read the material out there. Show us you're more than a Bible-spouting robot.
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 30
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 9:22:35 AM
I went to grade school with a lovely girl named Gay, I have often wondered, over the years, how she feels about it. I worked with a man who is gay and his name is Galen, he use to roll his eyes when people brought up the correlation but mostly he just didn't like the name. Your parents name you and you get to live with the jokes, I mean is being named Gay any worse than being named Peter,**** Harry...???

Yes, those crazy whining gays, they are running out of discriminations to complain about, so they had to find a new one. Being denied an equal civil rights life just isn't enough, now they have to take a WORD!!! away from the masses. How dare they!

Life must be hard when you are so full of hate for someone whose genetic programing didn't turn out to suit you. Such self-absorption must be exhausting! I guess someone being different from you must not be enough for your need to rage on so you have to make up other ways to discriminate against them, like saying they made a sexual orientation choice, when you didn't, yours you were born with....well except for those raging on to hide living in the closet.
 smalltowngirl0
Joined: 6/13/2008
Msg: 31
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:03:47 AM
i agree with wboydsp,

my daughter's dad and i divorced 11 years ago. we divorced because he was gay and wanted to come out of the closet, when we met, he was bi.

were i able to undo our years together i would, with the exception of our daughter.
because he was not fully honest with me i was not loved in a way that a man who is hetrosexual loves a woman.
(sex with him was half-azzed because of his issues.)

i don't have a problem with others being gay unless it gets personal.

diana
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 32
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:09:11 AM
The word christian started out as a derogatory term. It was from the greek meaning "little christs". Christians embraced it.
The idea that a christian who opposes the homosexual lifestyle or homosexual marriage is a biggot is flat out dumb. Adultery is a sin such as homosexuality is the same with gambling, drunkeness, fornication. We also condemn those practices. All sin is black in the sight of God. It is possable to condemn the sin and not the sinner.
Poeple who mistreat homosexuals are no better than the homosexuals for they are sinning in thier actions also.
I believe homosexuals should be able to live without fear. The only thing I am saying is that the sanctity of marriage and family should be preserved. Niether family or marriage is served by condoning as a society homosexual marriage. I do not believe children being raised by God fearing people should be taught that sin(homosexuality) is exceptable.
Already in America christianity is becoming marginalized. Children are punished in schools for praying, even on thier own time, the ACLU has launched an all out war on christianity, teachers have been fired for just having a bible on thier desks (not opened and not being read to students, just sitting on the desk). Several books are available on the humanistic war waged in this country against the christian religion.
Yet somehow the fact that most states disallow homosexual marriage is some great civil right cause. So should we legitimize adultry too? I oppose adultry just as much if not more(since I have had to deal with it) than homosexuality. I don't think it should be taught as a valid life choice either.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 33
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:10:59 AM

It's been something like 30 years that gays have been using the word as a label.....so what? What has it hurt. Language changes, due to usage and cultural changes and needs. Language is not stagnant. So the word has now more than one meaning, and the most prevalent one is a word that means homosexual. It's been accepted for decades now. For people to use it as an insult is an insult. In the same way using the term Jew as an insult. I remember when I was in college, in a required economics class. The instructor, during a lecture, said, and I quote, the phrase "Jew them down." This is offensive, period. An insult to Jewish people and culture. To do the same kind of thing with the word gay, which identifies another group of people is just as offensive.

You answered your own question--language and meanings of words change. Just because we find the changes offensive doesn't mean they're not going to happen. So you are "fine" with the word gay being used by homosexuals--others were not at all. It was offensive to them. I'm not sure why you can't see it as the same thing now that some people are using "gay" to mean stupid.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 34
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:27:58 AM

Dictionaries generally add words that have been in general use for some time, or include new meanings they take on. I imagine the word gay is show with both meanings in most English dictionaries. I doubt that dictionaries will begin to include the use of the word as a slur. Perhaps. Does the dictionary include such words as spick, jap, and the like?

Yes. Spic is the correct spelling.
–noun Slang: Disparaging and Offensive. a Spanish-American person.

Just because you find it offensive doesn't mean it doesn't exist and should be ignored.
 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 35
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:48:47 AM
Let me say, I'm not trying to fight with you, just debating. I respect your opinions. It just seems as though people get all politically correct about words. The fact is, society will change the meaning of words. I'm staying on topic, which is the word gay.

The specific example:
Gay meant happy.
Homosexuals males decided they would change the meaning of the word and take it as their own--this "offended" many people (even some homosexuals who felt it made them sound silly).
Now, kids have decided to take the meaning and change it AGAIN.
And now homosexual males--who took the word in the first place--are mad that these people are taking the word for themselves. Yet they did the EXACT same thing with the EXACT same response from "others", and to them, it was ok to do that; but somehow it's NOT ok for these kids to do this. I find that not only odd, but also pretty hypocritical.
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 36
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 10:59:08 AM
George Washington in a speech to the Delaware Indian chiefs on may 12, 1779. "What students would learn in American schools above all is the religion of Jesus Christ."

Patrick Henry : " It cannot be emphasized too clearly and too often that this nation was founded, not by religionists, but by christians: not on religion, but on the gospel of Jesus Christ. For this very reason, people's of other faiths have been afforded asylum, prosperity, and freedom of worship here." May 1765

Thomas Jefferson: "God who gave us life gave us liberty. And can the liberties of a nation be thought secure when we have removed thier only firm basis, a conviction in the minds of the people that these liberties are a gift from God? That they are not to be violated but with His wrath? Indeed I tremble for my country when I reflect that God is just, and His justice cannot sleep forever." 1781

George Washington: " To the distinguished charecter of patriot, it should be our highest glory to add the more distinguished charecter of christian." May 2, 1778

These quotes are from this nation's founders. I believe the myth of a steep wall of separation can be put to rest with thier words.

The first amendment clearly states that congress cannot set up a religion nor make ANY law restricting free excorcise of it either.

Secular humanism (athiesm) in the humanist manifesto is called a religion. Evolution is a component of that religion, the sex education is very much influenced by humanistic thought. Taught in our schools. Trampling the rights of christian parents. Along with the muslim lessons taught in some of our nations public schools.

the only nation with a separation of church and state clause in it's constitution was the former Soviet Union.
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 37
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 11:39:22 AM
We are losing our prosperity and liberties in America because people have stepped away from the principles that our founding fathers founded this nation on. Christian principles.
Check out the Humanist Manifesto. Obviously you do not know of much.
 Damienevil
Joined: 2/22/2008
Msg: 38
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 12:07:01 PM
they do call its a religion but that is because they see religion as the social creation of moral beliefs not deigned from a non existant god.

so they wish their beliefs to become a new religion
 DeagleNINja2
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 39
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 12:26:32 PM

Homosexualality is a chosen lifestyle defined by who they choose to have sex with.

Actually, the more I learn the more I agree with this. I used to believe that homosexuality was not a choice, because I myself never made a choice to be heterosexual it seemed logical.
But why then is it that every single gay or lesbian person I've known has had some sort of sexual trauma in their past? Maybe it's just coincidence. Maybe not.

On topic: Nearly all words have several meanings. That a few people don't understand this isn't the fault of all gays.
 Helen1967
Joined: 9/10/2008
Msg: 40
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 12:45:17 PM

As I said, I'm old enough to remember when the term gay to allude to homosexuals first came into use.

No kidding?!? It started with Gertrude Stein's famous (or infamous, depending upon your point of view) "Miss Furr and Miss Skeene" in 1911. She could've used any word, really, it's the repetition and context that make it clear what she means. In that era, few who weren't homosexual picked up on it, but those who did had an instant socially acceptable code word for one another. So of course it took off.

I don't much like hearing kids use it to mean, more or less, "stupid," since it's now so completely identified with sexuality, but in considering this I think it's important to bear in mind that children find everything about any kind of sexuality to be an endless source of interest and humor. These are largely the same people who still find fart jokes funny, after all, including the few adults who employ the usage. I tend to opine that it isn't that big a deal, since either most of them will outgrow it, or the word will evolve to yet another incarnation. Most don't seem to mean it with any rancor.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 41
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 1:07:57 PM

Already in America christianity is becoming marginalized. Children are punished in schools for praying, even on thier own time, the ACLU has launched an all out war on christianity, teachers have been fired for just having a bible on thier desks (not opened and not being read to students, just sitting on the desk). Several books are available on the humanistic war waged in this country against the christian religion.


Oh dear me...so no longer having the position as the single dominant cultural and social force in the Western World since the time of Nicea and Constantine and being able to lord it over anyone who is not in agreement with you is "disturbing" to you?

Pardon me while I get out my smallest violin...I soaked one in crocodile tears and put it in the dryer.

War on Christianity? Humanistic War? Anyone else see any bias in those terms?

America is still predominantly populated by people who state Christian belief on the census... it is enshrined in the Constitution that you have the right to practice any faith you wish - YOU DON'T have the right to inflict that faith on other people, make that faith state policy or see that such faith gets favoritism by the state. The Founders saw the evil of that choice having seen religiously motivated war in their own day even though the majority of the signatory members of the Constitutional Congress were of some Christian denomination they were also men of the Age of Reason, educated and wanted to prevent a State Church from forming, state interference in any Church, and give all citizens the right to worship as they chose as well as keep the state out of religious matters.

A fantasy of a "war on Christianity" is a disingenuous pity party about not having things one's own way because one cannot have things like they were in "the good old days" when queers stayed in the closet, and mom stayed home...or at least that seems to be what is being said.



Adultery is a sin such as homosexuality is the same with gambling, drunkeness, fornication. We also condemn those practices. All sin is black in the sight of God. It is possable to condemn the sin and not the sinner.


Yes, you do, as a Christian...but your moral standards are not setting the bar for everyone to follow despite how much you have deluded yourself into imagining otherwise. Sin is not law except in your beliefs. In a civil - you'd say godless - society, homosexual behavior is no longer illegal.

Suggesting that homosexuality should be equated with adultery and that society ought to be mandated according to Biblical standards smacks of theocracy...We're not the Taliban and I dare say no sane citizen in North America wants to head that way. Anyone else see the slippery slope fallacy tossed in there? The two things are unrelated. It would be like saying, "Well if you let the gays get married, next thing you know, dogs and cats will want to get married too. Society will collapse and we'll descend into hell!" Playground logic.

Those Founding Father quotes of course, are out of context and cherrypicking...which I am hardly surprised to find you engaging in at this point considering all of the other logical fallacies in your agenda driven, why me post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:George_Washington/Archive_1#Religious_writings
http://scienceblogs.com/dispatches/2004/12/george_washingtons_mythical_pr.php
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Benjamin_Franklin/Archive_1
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/john_remsburg/six_historic_americans
/chapter_2.html
http://www.positiveatheism.org/hist/jeffstein.htm
http://www.chestnutcafe.com/US_History.html

Washington's beliefs are a matter of much scrutiny and his "Christianity" is something foisted on him by later pious frauds. He was a Freemason and a Deist like Benjamin Franklin and Jefferson. Patrick Henry was a Christian.

However, you are obviously unfamiliar with the Treaty of Tripoli...I see you know the Establishment Clause...

As to the Humanist Manifestos I can see why they present a problem for you as you are a theist...

And they also ensure rights for all manner of people that some Bible believers would tromp upon without a second thought because they are sinners beyond redemption like practicing homosexuals and people of non-Christian faiths...at least according to what seems to be your particular interpretation of it...I know many Christians who frankly would find your approach to Christianity laughable and primitive.
 wboydsp
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 42
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 2:42:35 PM
xzanthius, some of the most successful marriages are arranged ones. Statistically the divorce rate among those in arranged marriages is next to nill. Alot of times the first time they see each other is at the alter. those marriages become based on love and mutual respect.
I admire alot of people of both sexes. And not all women I find beautiful am I attracted to.

So enstead of it being a case of attraction, it is a case of lust.
I believe that homosexuals confuse ideas like admiration and attraction with lust. Plain and simple. Homosexuality is a practice that feeds lust. Studys show that homosexual men or the most violent, suicidal and most prone to drug and alcohal addictions then any other segment of the population. People with these type of problems do not have a great capacity for love.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 43
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 3:06:01 PM

I believe that homosexuals confuse ideas like admiration and attraction with lust. Plain and simple. Homosexuality is a practice that feeds lust. Studys show that homosexual men or the most violent, suicidal and most prone to drug and alcohal addictions then any other segment of the population. People with these type of problems do not have a great capacity for love.


Bullship. Cite them. And they are peer reviewed? By what journal? What university?


Someone is confusing correlation and causation here...
 wisguyingb
Joined: 1/5/2008
Msg: 44
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 3:14:10 PM
A long time ago I heard of a experiment using mice and a space with borders. When the amount of mice in the confined space was "low" the mice mated male to female. But as the space became more and more "crowed" the mice took on perversion and male on male behavior began taking place?

I don't hate homosexuals one bit. Perhaps it's natures way of preventing over crowding.

And I would also support gay marriage only if polygamy was allowed and becomes legal. Like I said in past threads. If the homosexual's claim they have constitutional right to marriage, then so do polygamists and other groups.
 urinemyway
Joined: 5/4/2008
Msg: 45
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 3:32:18 PM
Geez...

Believe it or not, this thread had nothing to do with the morality or nature of homosexuality, and I'm sorry to see it turned into such. I would much rather see the thread deleted than know that I was a party to what it has become. Think of me what you will; I've appealed to the moderators to remove it.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 9/17/2008
Msg: 46
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 3:57:40 PM
I apologize for feeding the troll, I share some of that responsibility, while one can try to steer it back on topic, once someone with a clear agenda has the ball and they want to run with it like a determined little puppy it's hard to get it back...and now that the moderators are doing things at a triage level the trolls are doing things with impunity which is a shame. Mea culpa.
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 47
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/10/2009 5:45:56 PM

I went to grade school with a lovely girl named Gay, I have often wondered, over the years, how she feels about it. I worked with a man who is gay and his name is Galen, he use to roll his eyes when people brought up the correlation but mostly he just didn't like the name. Your parents name you and you get to live with the jokes, I mean is being named Gay any worse than being named Peter,**** Harry...???


I guess it kind of depends on what circle you're part of. I do often tend to wonder how pro-basketball player Rudy Gay of the Memphis Grizzlies and pro-football player William Gay of the reigning champion Pittsburgh Steelers get treated in an environment so rich with testosterone.



Already in America christianity is becoming marginalized. Children are punished in schools for praying, even on thier own time, the ACLU has launched an all out war on christianity, teachers have been fired for just having a bible on thier desks (not opened and not being read to students, just sitting on the desk). Several books are available on the humanistic war waged in this country against the christian religion.


Honestly, I don't really see anything wrong with people doing their own religious thing on their own time as long as it is not forced upon others and as long as everyone else is free to do the same.

I make that last point because my personal experiences in school were quite the opposite of the humanistic war on Christianity that you've mentioned.

I got harassed by teachers and principals, sent to the office, and was forced to turn my shirt inside out when I wore my Bad Religion shirt to school containing an image on the front of a cross with a circle around it and a line through it. A friend of mine endured similar harassment for wearing a Pennywise shirt that bore a neutral band logo of an overlapped P and W that meant absolutely nothing. But school authorities likened it to a pentagram and forced him to turn it inside out.

Meanwhile, the Christian crowd routinely wore shirts with crosses on them as well as crosses around their necks and yet no one forced them to change their attire.




Secular humanism (athiesm) in the humanist manifesto is called a religion. Evolution is a component of that religion, the sex education is very much influenced by humanistic thought. Taught in our schools. Trampling the rights of christian parents. Along with the muslim lessons taught in some of our nations public schools.


The problem with arguing scientific aspects like evolution as part of the religion of athiesm is that it becomes a slippery slope from there on. Everything becomes hair-splitting and semantics, and eventually you cannot teach anything at all because someone will find a way to align whatever subject it is with some form of belief system. This ultimately renders the concept of school to be just another church. In which case, everybody might as well not bother to attend at all and just go to their respective churches five days a week to learn whatever they need to know in life. And agnostics should not be required to go at all.




Who you have sex with is a choice (well, a mutual choice I suppose).

Who you are attracted to however is not a choice.
You cannot decide who you are attracted to.


This is really probably the most accurate post anyone has made in this entire thread.



xzanthius, some of the most successful marriages are arranged ones. Statistically the divorce rate among those in arranged marriages is next to nill. Alot of times the first time they see each other is at the alter. those marriages become based on love and mutual respect.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but aren't there also serious ramifications social or otherwise for not making an arranged marriage work?




And I would also support gay marriage only if polygamy was allowed and becomes legal.


Why in the world would you want to be married to more than one person? That's just that many more ways the courts get to divide your stuff up if you get divorced?



I just realized I haven't even addressed the original topic of this thread. Call me insensitive, but I don't really see anything inherently wrong with calling something gay to berate it. As someone else mentioned, it is a bit immature, but that's about it. CassaGo made a good point about the word changing definitions once already. There's not really much reason for it not to change definitions again.

I actually had a heavy metal elitist once try to tell me that he used the term gay by its original definition of happy to describe something he thought was lame. He claimed he had no problem with homosexuals but thought calling something he didn't like "happy" was an effective insult because being metal, it's uncool to be happy.

Cynicism at its finest.
 Lovelytonou
Joined: 8/18/2007
Msg: 48
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/11/2009 9:22:36 AM
There is no evidence of homosexuality being anything other than a choice. Since I put my faith in God's word and He doesn't condemn that which is genetic. I believe it is someone's chosing. No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking. I have spoken my beliefs to many homosexuals.
I refuse to walk on eggshells to not offend. It is God I follow not man.


I am so glad that the God I believe in is not only forgiving, but loving. Religion is a cause for unity and accepting our diversity. Religion should not be blinding nor should it cast someone behind a wall of 'protected and self-righteous' discrimination.
There's a lot of hard, scientific research in this area. Do your homework before making such statements. No one's asking you to believe it. I would expect however, that you reflect upon the right of others to be who they are, without personal judgements.

*: ) Yeah, religious prejudice makes me sick to my stomach.
 itechman63
Joined: 7/7/2005
Msg: 49
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/11/2009 9:23:37 AM

No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel


You must have worked on the tower and now no longer speak English.

Is it God that you follow? The same God that tells you to judge not lest ye be judged yourself because only he is qualified for that job? The same God that abhors hatred and intolerance?

Gotta love the radical fascist sect of today's Republicans... hatred in God's name.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 50
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/11/2009 9:28:45 AM
ismeme2~


Dictionaries generally add words that have been in general use for some time, or include new meanings they take on.


Gay= Happy, full of cheer

Gay=Homosexual Male

Gay=stupid ?

Ismeme2 are you saying Gay now means stupid with no derrogatory conotation towards homosexuality...It just means stupid and we should not read Homosexual into it?
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