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 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 64
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Gay RightsPage 3 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
As far as my life experience goes, with some notable exceptions, most human beings are pretty much brain-dead until they reach their late 20s or early 30s; only after that age does it seem to be possible for them to engage in coherent conversation with grown-ups.

I can pretty much ignore most things coming out of an under-30s mouth, except for things like "watch out for that bus," and even then it's not 100% reliable.

Why should I care how immature humans misuse the language?
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 65
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/12/2009 4:13:27 PM

You are sadly mistaken. I am the father of an 18 year old and I asked him about this. When he and his friends describe something as gay they are using it to mean stupid, absurd, pointless or something of that ilk. They are in no way referring to homosexuality. Yes, they also use it as we once used the words queer or faggot but that s when they are directly referencing a person.

Typically when teens use the word gay they are not referencing a person. "That test was gay' or "My parents grounded me, that's so gay" have no reference at all to homosexuality.


Actually, after some more thought on the subject, you raise an interesting point here, but I do have to disagree with part of it.

I agree that when referencing something (i.e. an inanimate object, a situation, etc.), the term gay generally is understood to mean lame or stupid without any direct relation to homosexuality rather than when referencing a person where it generally does take on more of a homosexual context.

But the part I disagree with is the part about teens and such not often using the word gay to describe people. That's not entirely accurate. They take shots at people and groups of people all the time using that word. Just about as often as they do at situations and other things. Although the interesting part is that it's rarely ever directed at people that are actually homosexual. It's generally directed at heterosexuals. But it is definitely meant to have homosexual connotations as evident by the fact that they don't always use the actual term "gay" but tend to switch off between that and phrases such as "likes the còck" or "takes it in the ass."

However, if you look at the actual targets, I think this says more about the true intent of what's being said.

Eminem once made a fairly valid point about this that got me thinking.

He basically said that calling a straight person gay or any other derogatory homosexual term was a good insult because it was effective. It was a shot at their manhood. So technically even if someone has no problem with homosexuals, they know that the other person will still be offended by being called that. Which makes it an enticing insult to use.

Perhaps that says more about people that are offended by being called gay than it does about people actually using the term as an insult.

Someone else here brought up the term "sissy." While I'm sure that's been directed toward homosexuals at different times, in my experience, it has generally always been used as a shot at weak heterosexual men. In a sense, calling people gay that are not gay seems to up the ante from the term sissy. It's essentially an amplified version of sissy.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 66
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Gay Rights
Posted: 5/12/2009 4:18:58 PM

But the part I disagree with is the part about teens and such not often using the word gay to describe people. That's not entirely accurate. They take shots at people and groups of people all the time using that word. Just about as often as they do at situations and other things. Although the interesting part is that it's rarely ever directed at people that are actually homosexual. It's generally directed at heterosexuals....


I work at a public high school where I hear students use the term 'that's so gay', 'you're so gay', 'my teacher is so gay', on a daily basis. Once in a while, I check it when I hear it--often, though, I get that the kid means 'lame'. So, my suggestion to the kid is, 'why not simply use 'lame', and save me the trouble of having this little discussion with you?'

We need to own our words and the consequences of using them.
 Beaugrand®™©
Joined: 3/24/2008
Msg: 67
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Gay Rights
Posted: 5/12/2009 9:32:54 PM

based on your reasoning, it is then also okay for anyone under 20 to use derogatory words toward Jews, blacks, women, the handicapped, the elderly, people of any ethnic, racial, religious group, etc.?
I didn't say it was okay. I asked why I should care what some brain-dead kids say- specifically, why should I care how immature humans misuse language. Most are going to grow up to be brain-dead adults anyway, a very few will actually do something with their lives, and what I think or say about their empty-headed blatherings will have no affect on the outcome.
 J_in_SD*
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 68
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/12/2009 10:14:46 PM

based on your reasoning, it is then also okay for anyone under 20 to use derogatory words toward Jews, blacks, women, the handicapped, the elderly, people of any ethnic, racial, religious group, etc.?

Hey, 'Teach, you should have read the Cliffs Notes. But here's a Good Effort sticker for ya.
 J_in_SD*
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 69
Gay Rights
Posted: 5/12/2009 10:33:26 PM

I work at a public high school where I hear students use the term 'that's so gay', 'you're so gay', 'my teacher is so gay', on a daily basis.

Students, take heart! That's your scholarship competition.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 70
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 8:19:58 AM

Homosexualality is a chosen lifestyle defined by who they choose to have sex with.


Just curious, what morning did you wake up and realize "Gee, I should decide whether I'm gay or straight, no time like the present" and then make your decison?
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 71
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 8:23:48 AM

Since I put my faith in God's word and He doesn't condemn that which is genetic. I believe it is someone's chosing. No amount of psudeo- scientific or psychological babel is gonna change my way of thinking. I have spoken my beliefs to many homosexuals.
I refuse to walk on eggshells to not offend. It is God I follow not man.


And the gay chimpanzees and gay penguins? I'm assuming from your comments that you're a "Leviticusian" and not a "Christian". There is a passage in Leviticus denouncing homosexuality; there is no such passage attributed to Christ.

(you follow God? so I guess you have read all of Leviticus and follow it ( not just the anti homosexuality part). are you sacrificing the proper animals in the proper way?)
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 72
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 9:22:48 AM
I look at the SouthAfrican runner, Caster...what choice does God give him...sorry Caster, Her.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 73
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 9:36:56 AM
I agree with that, post 109. I'm sure the vast majority if not all of the Christians who cite Levitical law when it comes to homosexuality do not follow Levitical law in the other areas of their lives. Do they ever get tattoos for instance?? Are the men shaving their beards and/or cutting their sideburns?? Are they keeping Saturdays holy and never even flipping a light switch on that day, and so forth? Are they also abstaining from any pork product, or any meat that has not been slaughtered in a kosher manner, or any seafood that does not have fins and scales? The point is, they're not following traditional Jewish law (which WAS, after all, technically originally strictly meant for Jews and did not apply to gentiles anyway).

They of course consider themselves not bound by those Laws, because Paul (St.Paul / Saul of Tarsus), a heretical Jew himself in all actuality, told his fellow Messianic Jews (that is really what the first of them were at the time, who would later become called Christians) they needn't any longer bother with the letter of the Law, and that Christians could for instance "eat anything sold in the meat market, without raising questions of conscience" (from, 1 Cor.10:23-26), and that any who professed his belief in it was now already saved by the "perfect sacrifice" which had (just recently at that time) already taken place.

Anti-gay Christians may also cite Jewish "Noahide law" which was supposedly meant for all mankind and also placed a prohibition on homosexuality, but then that is only if the homosexual gentile in question, for example, is remotely concerned with being considered a "Righteous Gentile" by traditionalist Jews. For someone , like me for instance, a born gentile who doesn't give a damn what traditionalist Jews think of him either way, the "Noahide Laws" are about as relevant as the strictures placed on Sikhs by their holy writ.
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 74
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 6:43:30 PM
^I think that's a valid point. I think it's respectable to solidly adhere to a religion you truly believe in, but to pick and choose which aspects to follow and which to ignore and then condemn people who make different choices than you do is not really living by your chosen religious doctrine. It is merely subjectively judging by your own personal moral beliefs.



We need to own our words and the consequences of using them.


We also need to get better as a society about looking at intentions rather than words. I think a large factor in many of the ongoing problems in our society is that people are ignoring root causes and instead are demonizing symptoms.

George Carlin said it best. Words, themselves, are meaningless. It's the intent of the person using them that we should be concerned with.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 75
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Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 7:16:25 PM
Intent or not, it is the word that impacts us.

It is the word we hear first--or in the case of my Deaf students, see first.
I can only understand your intention when/if we have a discussion about it, otherwise, I'm left to interpret what you said on my own.
So, again, we need to own our word choices.
 etourdi77
Joined: 7/7/2009
Msg: 76
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 7:52:03 PM
I know, we should strike all words from our language that someone somewhere might find offensive, then when we run out of words, we can communicate with grunts and growls, when those become offensive to someone, we can resort to sign language, when someone finds a reason to be offended by gestures then we can communicate only by blinking and facial expressions. when someone somewhere finds this offensive we can ..................oops no where to go after that really...maybe we should quit trying so hard to be "politically correct" and just accept the fact that no matter what we do or say we run the risk of offending someone somewhere for some reason. We should respect peoples freedom of speech and quit trying to eliminate words that people find offensive ....You know sticks and stones and all that....
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 77
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Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 8:02:23 PM

I know, we should strike all words from our language that someone somewhere might find offensive, then when we run out of words, we can communicate with grunts and growls, when those become offensive to someone, we can resort to sign language, when someone finds a reason to be offended by gestures then we can communicate only by blinking and facial expressions. when someone somewhere finds this offensive we can ..................oops no where to go after that really...maybe we should quit trying so hard to be "politically correct" and just accept the fact that no matter what we do or say we run the risk of offending someone somewhere for some reason. We should respect peoples freedom of speech and quit trying to eliminate words that people find offensive ....You know sticks and stones and all that....


Or...we could simply own what we say, and when/if asked for clarification, just as simply explain the intent.
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 78
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 11:03:19 PM
I think I do have gay-dar when I see some feminine dude prancing around in pink thinking it's "fabulous"(flips wrist). In England f sounds like gag is a cigarette. Gay used to mean happy, rainbows, now their symbol was just a colorful decoration.

Ellen Degeneres and her manly self sets off gay-dar
 daynadaze
Joined: 2/11/2008
Msg: 79
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Gay Rights
Posted: 9/23/2009 11:08:30 PM
What is manly about Ellen Degeneres? She's a feminine as the next women, more so than some. What a nasty, uncalled for comment.
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 80
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/24/2009 11:12:17 AM
^I think she used to be a bit more feminine than she is now. She wears masculine type clothing a lot more now, has the short hair, and generally seems to take the "male" role in her relationships. Really talented comic, though. I like her quite a bit.



Intent or not, it is the word that impacts us.


Maybe so, but it is up to the listener how to receive that impact. They make the choice whether to be offended, empathetic, or apathetic.




I can only understand your intention when/if we have a discussion about it, otherwise, I'm left to interpret what you said on my own.


This might be true with people you don't know. But with people you know, intent should be somewhat of a foregone conclusion based on what you already know about their personality.

Although opening up more of a dialogue to understand a stranger's intent when using a word will typically do more to diffuse tension than wagging a finger at them.
 Fleur_de_Lis
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 81
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/24/2009 2:47:30 PM
I don't see Ellen as manly either ~ I see manly women where I work and Ellen is a far cry from them


 Verzen
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 82
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/25/2009 6:28:06 AM
Wboy - Homosexuality is not a choice. You can be a homosexual and still have straight sex.. But to have straight sex and to hide your homosexuality, it causes quite a bit of mental damage. It's harmful.
And since your "God" created them this way, he should accept them for who they are, right?
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 83
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Gay Rights
Posted: 9/25/2009 10:06:43 AM
we canadians had a prim minister that said its none of the governments buisiness what people do in the bedrooms of the nation, we have gay rights, life as we know it has not ended
 granz
Joined: 6/22/2009
Msg: 84
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/25/2009 12:07:08 PM
The beauty of freedom is that, while someone may have the liberty to discriminate against and talk shit about LGBT people, they can't actually do anything to take our own freedoms away. As far as I'm concerned, they can continue to waste their breath on the issue; all the while, my gay partner and I will be having gratuitous amounts of gay, man-on-man sex.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 85
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/25/2009 5:09:02 PM
^^ I agree. I always wonder when I hear the "moral majority" types haranguing an audience about any of these social "issues", why the hell does all this sh!t that is being done BY other people and WITH other people......bother THEM so much??? They're not directly involved or affected in the least. If no one is forcing them to live with a gay couple, or forcing their daughter to have an abortion, or to drink, or do some kind of drug or prostitute herself, or whatever, why the hell does it bother them so much?? In a country this huge, with this many different types of people from all different cultures, ethnicities, nationalities, etc, if you can't basically just "live and let live" happily in a place like this, then IMO there's just something not right.
 Uncle Fist
Joined: 12/18/2006
Msg: 86
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/26/2009 5:16:42 PM
To illustrate the point, "the N-word" has a definition that is not derogatory, but I would expect that the OP doesn't insist on using the word simply because it hasn't been trademarked.


Actually, it kind of has. The hip hop community trademarked it.



Sure, we all have the "right" to be inconsiderate towards others. But make the choice and then own it, instead of spending your time on dishonest "rationalizations."


That's true. But by the same token, we all have the "right" to be offended by something someone says and if we decide to make that choice, we should own that as well. Rather than pointing the finger at the person who said something we didn't like and saying, "You made me feel this way!"

The only person who can make anyone feel anything is themselves. It is not possible to be offended by something unless you consent to it.
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 87
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/27/2009 6:05:36 PM
I take offence to the use of the word "lame" being used in a derogatory way! So what if you can't walk? That's just lame!
 granz
Joined: 6/22/2009
Msg: 88
Gay Rights
Posted: 9/27/2009 6:50:59 PM

I take offence to the use of the word "lame" being used in a derogatory way! So what if you can't walk? That's just lame!


"Lame" is not an attack on one's racial background, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, or could otherwise be construed as an attack on personal merits. I'm sure you're intelligent enough to discern the difference. You're only ridiculing the subject for the sake of being a smart-ass. (minus the "smart")
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