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 GeneralizingNow
Joined: 10/10/2007
Msg: 199
Gay RightsPage 5 of 18    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18)
Actually, from what I have read on many polls, the majority are NOT against legalizing a UNION between gays, just they get stuck on the WORD "marriage" because, for them, it connotates a specific thing, which is (usually religious) between one man and one woman. This whole thing is just semantics!

I think a lot of people see the legitimization of homosexual unions as "condoning homosexuality". I wish they could get past that idea and just see it for what it is: a legal contract that gives legal rights to gays for purposes of taxation, power of attorney, buying homes, etc.

 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 202
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 9:17:50 AM

It's written plainly in their holy books; it is , say the books, "abominable, detestable, unnatural" , etc etc. And offenders are to be dealt with (technically at least -- in many Islamic countries excepting Iran for instance it's not truly applied) with death, yes


Yes, and the bible also says those who work on the Sabbath day are to be executed, parents can stone their disobedient children, it's a sin to wear clothing made of more than1 type of material ( no mixing cotton & wool for exmple) and you can sell your daughter into slavery... (there's something in there about not planting different crops beside each other, so careful you religious backyard gardeners, you're sinning if you have your peas carrots & tomatoes in the same small patch). If these people want to use the Bible as their justification for calling homosexuality an abomination ( as in Leviticus) then if they don't follow the rest of the "laws" set forth in Leviticus they are at best ignorant of what the book actually says or hypocrites who say the teachings of the book are sacred/the word of god BUT then figure it's OK to cherrypick which portions of the book are OK & which aren't.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 204
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 9:43:20 AM

They are wrong because “gay marriage” is a contradiction in terms

You mean, like it's an oxymoron?
LOL
Been divorced--yup--it wasn't a very 'gay' marriage, at that!
Otherwise, it isn't a contradiction, at all.


All it takes is a simple factual observation as to what is and is not of natural order and/or what is mandated by natural law.

Quick--Google 'homosexual behavior in animals', and see what crops up.
Amazing--all the varieties of animals having same-sex sex.
Penguins, giraffes, dolphins...there's quite a list.
All 'natural'.


Unfortunately no amount of common sense will deter these groups from seeking the right to marry, even when common sense dictates that homosexual relationships are “unnatural” as they cannot lead to the creation of children, which is a “natural” consequence of such intimate relationships, especially marriage.

Are you serious?
Really?
'Common sense' tells me that when a couple in their 80s marry, as did my grandfather and his second wife, that no children will be the result of that marriage.

Or, when a couple marry knowing that one of them will be unable to have a child through no fault of their own. Using your 'common sense', should they not marry?


Fruit loops walking down the street wearing a Dress, while sporting a beard, talking like a man, voice inflection like a man, strength like a man, all the physical,emotional, psychological elements of a man, but somehow or other beyond a Science Fiction movie, we are to believe he is really a woman? LOL ..What confusion this breeds in the minds of children.

Judge not, lest ye be judged. It's in the Bible. Something about Christ-like behavior.

Confusion is easily cleared up when questions are asked and answered honestly.
'Is that a man or a woman?'
'I think he's a man dressed like a woman.'
'Why?'
'Because he likes it, I guess.'
Not rocket science--at least for the open-minded.


Another farce with these groups is there seeking to teach, and force on others, that any NATURAL aversion to the thought of having sex with the same gender, is now somehow unnatural!
Just another sick twist in how far these people are willing to go in order to change the minds of America.

Coupla things:
1. YOU are not America. Share your opinion as such, not as fact.
2. I am an American. It is my opinion that same-sex marriage is no big deal.
3. What I've noticed is that two women having sex is something men pay to watch--on television's 'naughty' channel, or in Playboy Magazine.


Something that really gets me is Homosexuals adopting children. The kid will either have no Mother or no Father. The child will either have 2 dads or 2 moms. If the kid is missing one of these parent figures the kid is missing out on the love of the full specter of human emotions from parents as a child. Not only that but this will most likely confuse the child as to which sex he should marry and have sex with.

Others will likely come along and counter this bit of crap with something more eloquent than I, however, my response is: desperation. Simple desperation to pull out the adoption card.

I'm not the only one on this site who can tell you that having a male father and female mother in the home is NO guarantee of the child having the 'love of the full specter of human emotions from parents'. And, frankly, anyone who passes themselves off as intellectual should know that.

The counter-argument is this: same-sex marriage is not a Biblical issue.
For those who claim that it is, then make posts clearly showing the anti-side of Christian behavior while claiming that they are Christian, does more harm for their cause, than good.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 206
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 10:06:18 AM
Regarding the instances of homosexuality in animals....What outwardly appears to be "homosexual" behavior is often times just misdirected sexual instinct or displays of dominance. For instance, my dad's male dog used to hump the other male dog. But his female dog used to hump one of the the male dogs too. The fact that a dog humps the same sex is not because it was "born gay". It's because it is trying to be dominant or is just horny and literally humps anything that it can mount.

The idea that animals would be gay is absurd. Homosexuality from an evolutionary/biological perspective is a self-eliminating adaptation. Animals could not come into existence nor stay in existence if they can't reproduce. That is why when we do observe what looks like homosexual animal behavior, it is generally just a combination of other behaviors and is not a strictly same sex preference.

I also am against homosexuals raising children. The only acceptable instance I can think of would be like what happened with a childhood friend. His mom had him with a man and then later divorced and married a woman. So the two women raised him. But I don't agree with homosexuals adopting or using surrogate parents to obtain children.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 207
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 10:55:25 AM

...but SODOMY is, and always has been an UNNATURAL act...


Really?
Given that sodomy is defined as 'anal or oral copulation', I'm going to presume that none of the men who have posted as being opposed to same-sex sex, have ever been given a...trying to be delicate...'blow job'.
Right?

Because if you have, and you are against same-sex sex because it's unnatural, then you must also be opposed to oral sex for the same reason.
Right?

Otherwise, you would be a hypocrite.

Have cake...wanna eat it...can't...'cuz you can't have your cake and eat it, too...
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 211
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 11:29:33 AM
Dino, the point you make about homosexuality and genetics is worth noting, but perhaps not worth fully analyzing at this point. It's unclear as to the extent that genetics play in homosexuals. It could be that it is some sort of odd recessive trait that can lay dormant in heteros until it manifests itself in their offspring. This would explain how it was able to survive over time.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 214
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 12:23:02 PM
Dino said:

...perhaps this was simply because "gay lifestyles" were virtually unknown in the Israel of his day.Everyone knew and understood the culturally acceptable standards. Sexual immorality in any form was shameful and not for open public discussion. In fact, even the suggestion of heterosexual activity before marriage was scandalous...as evidenced by his own birth...)



PG said:

While at the same time stating there were no gay lifestyles in said period...


Go back and read what Dino said--he didn't state that there were no gay lifestyles--he made a valid and educated observation that, by those cultural standards, such a lifestyle was not open for public scrutiny. It was hidden--hence, 'coming out of the closet'.

AND--what about those blow jobs?
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 215
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 12:54:21 PM
Nothing in this world is unnatural as everything comes from nature. That word could be replaced with something like abnormal or unusual. If homosexuality is a genetic condition or a psychological condition then it is still natural.

Sort of like albinism. Albinism is an abnormal condition which can negatively effect the life of the animal or person. It is not common nor desireable, but it is naturally occurring.

While I wouldn't fully equate homosexuality with disease, I do think that it is a condition that has few, if any, positive aspects to it. Yes, a gay person may feel better living a gay lifestyle. Just like a junky will feel better when using drugs. But all things being equal, they'd both be better off without it.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 221
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 1:15:16 PM
The above quote made by a previous poster, is more evidence on what an immoral perspective does to people.

It's readily apparent some people's mind are so corrupted they assume everyone is living a trifling life like they are. If you desire a blow-job I suggest you look for one of those in the lifestyle you support.

There are some pretty sick individuals on POF, if you desire to practice SODOMY- don't try and influence the rest of us.


Oh, dear...someone hasn't read their Funk and Wagnells...

'Sodomy' is oral and/or anal copulation.

Whatever 'trifling life' you're practicing, I do hope for your sake that it doesn't include oral sex.

I'm not attempting to 'influence' other adults. I'm simply stating another perspective.

(does this mean that you don't engage in oral sex?)
(or masturbation, which is sometimes included in the 'unnatural acts' category)
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 222
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 1:29:20 PM
This all gets into the nature vs. nurture thing, but it's clear that humans are very sensitive to psychological trauma. I mean, it doesn't take much to turn someone into a serial killer or rapist. Perhaps there could be some unknown gene that doesn't necessarily make people gay, or murderers---but it makes them more susceptible to those behaviors especially in conjunction with certain environmental stimuli.

Sounds confusing, I know. It's a complicated issue thats for sure. I'm not saying humans can't be born gay. I think it's certainly possible. What I am saying is that it is doubtful that all gay people possess a specific "gay gene". It far more likely that they are influenced in part, or in total, by their upbringing and surroundings.

This condition of homosexuality should not be looked at as a sin per se, just like a leper shouldn't be shunned as an infected sinner just because he has a medical condition. But homosexuality should certainly not be encouraged. I don't think it can be treated really, because once you are gay, it is almost impossible to turn you back to hetero. And it should be regarded as an unfortunate condition that some people are effected by and as a society we should try to be fair to these people while at the same time seeking to mitigate the harmful effects of homosexuality.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 223
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 1:41:42 PM

NORMAL folk do not wish to follow such filth. Though quite frankly I was not surprised, since they've already exhibited a great degree of ignorance, and a immoral conscience on marriage, the Bible, the raising of children, and any issues that require decency, and character.

You of course being the one who decides what is 'normal'.

Families come in all shapes and sizes around the world, as do relationships. The mean-spirited and vicious brand of Christianity you espouse is not something I want to go anywhere near.

I'm quite happy to live my life without dogma and I encourage my sons to be free-thinkers and make up their own minds. They will have decency and character and they will do it without setting foot inside a church.

And please don't bother emailing me again, anything you have to say you can post it on the thread.
 aSydneyMale
Joined: 5/16/2006
Msg: 225
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 2:22:26 PM

I'm sure people of your ilk would love for Christians to keep their mouth shut, and their opinions to themselves, but whether you like it or not..God shall have the last WORD.

Pfft, Whatever mate. For all we know this is all there is and you don't know that any more than I do.


Real MEN, know the Truth, and follow it, so it will be a cold day in hell if I ever let some pony boy try and censor my comments.

Strike a nerve did I? I', not a real man because I take issue with your rants? And 'pony boy'?


Don't worry, we could care less what you think,

All evidence to the contrary given the amount of effort you've put into slagging me off.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 227
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 3:04:20 PM
It was getting interesting, but then it starts flaming up with all the religo agenda and name calling. But before the pisssing match started it was cool.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 229
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 9:52:58 PM

The proponents for perverted behavior, and any arbitrarily concocted 'rights' will continue their onslaught on every institution, the Constitution, and every rational element of society that stands in their way. EVEN IF THEY HAVE TO FORCE IT UPON YOU!

Now please tell me, when a group tries to FORCE people to accept something, what does it imply about their motives?


Like the fundamentalists trying to force schools to teach "intelligent design" even though having that taught in the schools is an onslaught on the Constitution ? I guess you think it's OK for the bible thumpers to force their agenda on people, because it's "for their own good" .
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 230
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 9:58:14 PM

homosexual relationships are “unnatural” as they cannot lead to the creation of children


Using this logic any marriages between a man & woman they should then have to sign a guarantee that they are going to produce children & have their marriage automatically annulled in a set period of time ( 2 years maybe?) if the yhaven't produced any offspring.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 231
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 10:02:28 PM

Humans are not animals


We're not??? What are we then, vegetable or mineral?

Of course we're animals, we just use more tools than the other species, and we seemto have more intelligence.... the jury is still out on whether that increased intelligence is a good evolutionary facet or not though...
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 232
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 10:06:22 PM

Natural marriage is a marriage formed by natural relationship.


But we're talking about natural & nature; no other species "marries" so how is marriage itself even "natural" ?

No other species wears clothing, I guess that's also unnatural.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 233
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/23/2009 10:08:22 PM

People must have forgotten that everyday when they use the toilet - POOP/DUDU comes out of their backside, it's not a sex organ


If that's the criteria for what constitutes a "sex organ" then I guess our genitals aren't sex organs either, since urine comes out of them.
 curiousaboutu77
Joined: 12/28/2007
Msg: 234
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/24/2009 1:50:42 AM
Far too many people on this planet spend far too much time trying to force there beliefs on other people without taking a good look at themselves. If it is not our place to judge other people then it is not our place to force our beliefs onto other people as we won't be judging it. If two adults of the same sex want to marry then so be it, they should as who am i to force my thoughts onto them just like when you go to the library you should be able to read what you want and not be told what you can read. As far as im concerned, any government that wants to force there beliefs onto others and it doesn't hurt others, like whether a gay couple should be able to marry or not, is on a par with a dictatorship rather then governing a free society.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 237
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/24/2009 1:54:30 PM
curiousaboutu77 wrote:
If two adults of the same sex want to marry then so be it, they should as who am i to force my thoughts onto them just like when you go to the library you should be able to read what you want and not be told what you can read.


That's an apples to oranges comparison. Marriage is for a specific purpose. And it is NOT, I repeat NOT, so two adults can show the world how much they love each other. It is a lingering vestige from biblical times which governments have embraced in order to encourage population growth and general social and economic stability.

That being said, homosexual marriage is in total dischord with not only the bible, but with the government's intended purpose for marriages. Homosexual marriage would not benefit the majority of the population (straight people) and it is in fact harmful in many ways to the individual and those they surround. So getting back to the library analogy, it's not just a difference in preference between****ns and Vonnegut.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 238
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/24/2009 1:56:29 PM
Auto censorship sucks. I was simply trying write the name Charles D-I-C-K-E-N-S.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 239
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/24/2009 2:12:08 PM

Marriage is for a specific purpose. And it is NOT, I repeat NOT, so two adults can show the world how much they love each other. It is a lingering vestige from biblical times which governments have embraced in order to encourage population growth and general social and economic stability.

Toss out the Bible with regard to marriage.
What an anachronistic notion--the population grows with or without the church.



That being said, homosexual marriage is in total dischord with not only the bible, but with the government's intended purpose for marriages. Homosexual marriage would not benefit the majority of the population (straight people) and it is in fact harmful in many ways to the individual and those they surround. So getting back to the library analogy, it's not just a difference in preference between****ns and Vonnegut.

In your opinion.

In my case, the 'government's intended purpose' for marriage got flushed--I'm too old to have babies, so the population premise is moot.

How is same-sex marriage 'harmful to the individual and those they surround'?
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 241
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/24/2009 2:34:43 PM

How is same-sex marriage 'harmful to the individual and those they surround'? quote]

Same sex marriage would basically be condoning and encouraging homosexuality. Homosexuality itself is harmful to the individual and those they surround. Whether its that it brings shame to family members, or just the fact that many homosexuals struggle with an assortment of psychological issues that stem from the circumstances that made them gay (such as molestation), or (to a lesser extent nowadays) the increased risk of STDs.
 Double Cabin
Joined: 11/29/2004
Msg: 242
view profile
History
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/24/2009 2:59:40 PM
So Passionate Gent, homosexuals aside how do you feel about "God's attitude toward slaves? Selective revrence would be disrespectfull to your God, would it not?

Ephesians 5:22-24 Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord. For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

Exodus 21:20-21 If a man beats his male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies as a direct result, he must be punished, but he is not to be punished if the slave gets up after a day or two, since the slave is his property.

Peter 2:13 Submit yourselves for the Lord’s sake to every authority instituted among men.

2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.

Leviticus 25:44-45
Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 243
Gay Rights
Posted: 12/24/2009 4:25:37 PM

Same sex marriage would basically be condoning and encouraging homosexuality.

No.
It would be condoning marriage between two consenting adults.


Homosexuality itself is harmful to the individual and those they surround. Whether its that it brings shame to family members...

Feeling shame is a personal issue.

It is not incumbent upon anyone to ensure that others feel no shame about something that simply isn't their business to begin with.


...or just the fact that many homosexuals struggle with an assortment of psychological issues that stem from the circumstances that made them gay (such as molestation), or (to a lesser extent nowadays) the increased risk of STDs.

Seriously?

Many heterosexuals struggle with psychological issues--some from being molested--which did NOT 'make them gay', or make them become serial killers, or circus clowns.
Many heterosexuals also get STDs.
Weak arguments for your assertion that same-sex marriage causes harm to anyone.
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