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Show ALL Forums  > Health Wellness  > High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?      Home login  
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 vatives
Joined: 9/2/2015
Msg: 239
High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?Page 11 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
skyr, do you recommend statins simply as a preventative measure for guys who have little risk otherwise, other than being male and being older?

I have very limited time to post on this board, so I will not be able to respond. Thanks in advance.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 240
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High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 9/7/2015 4:30:25 PM
Statins are poison.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZomZEPBdbM

Do you want to listen to Skyr?
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 241
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Posted: 9/8/2015 3:55:56 AM

Statins are poison.


If you recall first year toxicology at medical school, everything is poison given the right dose. Drink enough water and it will kill you :)
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 242
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Posted: 9/8/2015 4:35:47 AM

skyr, do you recommend statins simply as a preventative measure for guys who have little risk otherwise, other than being male and being older?


That depends how low the risk and how much you want to prevent heart disease. The lower the risk, the lower the benefit, for obvious reason.

There is a good case for secondary prevention (someone who has had a heart attack or stroke)- we know it reduces the risk of another cardiovascular event by about a quarter or a third.

For primary prevention, the risk calculators are only as good as the information that go into them, but most guidelines recommend statins if the likelihood of a heart attack is >20% in the next 5yrs. For people in the 10-20% range, it's still reasonable, depending on the patient. The benefits are limited for those <10% risk.

You can play around with one of these yourself, they're mostly based on Framingham data: http://www.qrisk.org/

And no, I can't make a recommendation, that's for you to discuss with someone who knows your medical history (ie your doctor), and what you are trying to achieve.
 vatives
Joined: 9/2/2015
Msg: 243
High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 9/8/2015 9:12:42 AM
Thanks. I have discussed it with my doctor. Other than being male and sixty, he says I may not be getting much of a benefit . . but that there is probably some benefit at any rate. Of course, he says the benefits of Statins far outweigh the detriments for people who need them. . and I've read the studies, so I get that.
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 244
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High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 9/9/2015 4:04:26 AM


There is a good case for secondary prevention (someone who has had a heart attack or stroke)

Thats exactly what I have said a dozen times, yet you have argued that point.
IF you have had a heart attack/some heart disease and not just a high cholesterol they *could* be beneficial in preventing heart attacks in some.

You may get other serious heart compromising/* other* issues as well by taking them.


Evidence of a very low to almost non existent percentage in studies show less risk in some ,but do not come close to being a positive thing to do verses the side effects they cause in MOST people

No evidence it prevents a heart attack unless you had one previously and ESP are male.
Lipitor/crestor and a few others have been shown to greatly reduce life quality.
Lawsuits abundant at this time.




Side note
June 9, 2006 - Lawsuits filed this week claim that drug-maker Pfizer has failed to warn doctors and patients about serious possible side effects of the cholesterol-lowering drug.

The two lawsuits claim that Lipitor caused lasting, debilitating muscle and nerve problems -- including memory loss. Mark Jay Krum, a lawyer based in New York and Philadelphia, last Wednesday filed the suits in New York State Supreme Court on behalf of patients in New York and Atlanta.

Charles M. Wilson, a 60-year-old Atlanta man, says taking Lipitor damaged his nervous system. Three years after he stopped taking Lipitor, the suit says, his feet and hands burn, his balance is lost, and he suffers bouts of fatigueand memory loss.

The suit filed by Michael Mazzariello, a 47-year-old New Yorker, says his use of statins -- the family of cholesterol-lowering drugs to which Lipitor belongs -- left him with debilitating muscle damage and extensive memory loss.

"The complaint alleges that Pfizer promoted Lipitor as a safe drug with minimal health risks while failing to warn doctors and patients about Lipitor's more dangerous side effects," Krum tells WebMD. "No one is saying Lipitor does not work in reducing cholesterol. In most people it may be safe. But there are side effects such as those in the complaints filed on June 7. People are entitled to know."

With annual sales of about $12 billion, Lipitor is the world's best-selling medicine. It's the most popular of the cholesterol-lowering drugs called statins. Other statins include Zocor, Crestor, Mevacor, Pravachol, and Lescol. A statin drug called Baycol was removed from the market in 2001 because it caused far more cases of muscle damage than other members of its class.

Statin use has been associated with a wide range of side effects, including myopathy (muscle pain), liver damage, cataracts, kidney failure, cognitive impairment, impotence and diabetes.

Studies show that physicians are more likely to deny than affirm the possibility of statin side effects, even for symptoms with strong evidence in the scientific literature. Assuming that physicians would likely not report the adverse reaction in these circumstances, it’s probable that the incidence of statin side effects is much higher than the reported rates.

Other brands are involved in lawsuits also.

 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 245
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Posted: 9/10/2015 12:45:49 AM


Thats exactly what I have said a dozen times, yet you have argued that point.


Well actually no, I haven't. I've pointed out that this is incorrect:



Evidence of a very low to almost non existent percentage in studies show less risk in some ,but do not come close to being a positive thing to do verses the side effects they cause in MOST people


The NNT for primary prevention in high risk patients (>20% 5 yr risk) is pretty good, male and female. Most statin side effects are mild or insignificant. For the patients who do not tolerate statins, physicians have a tool at their disposal, known as common sense, which allow them to lower the dose, or cease the medication, if necessary.


IF you have had a heart attack/some heart disease and not just a high cholesterol they *could* be beneficial in preventing heart attacks in some


I would think a 25% risk reduction in secondary prevention should be worded a little more positively than "could be beneficial". Perhaps I'm an optimist.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 246
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Posted: 9/14/2015 3:21:28 PM

I would think a 25% risk reduction in secondary prevention should be worded a little more positively than "could be beneficial". Perhaps I'm an optimist.


Or perhaps you're just stupid.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 247
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Posted: 11/30/2015 9:42:54 PM
Read this, then decide.

http://www.naturalnews.com/051636_statins_drug_scam_premature_aging.html
 villabolos
Joined: 7/24/2015
Msg: 248
High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 12/9/2015 7:25:50 AM
I did not read through this whole thread. It's very possible this was mentioned already.

What about organic Apple Cider Vinegar to help lower cholesteral and blood pressure??
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 249
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Posted: 12/12/2015 2:20:31 PM

I did not read through this whole thread. It's very possible this was mentioned already.

What about organic Apple Cider Vinegar to help lower cholesteral and blood pressure??


Makes a good salad dressing, but not a blood pressure or cholesterol medication. Try plugging it in medline...you get rat and mouse studies.
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