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Show ALL Forums  > Health Wellness  > High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?      Home login  
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 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 126
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High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?Page 6 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
^^^^^^^

He's "sellin" water

Check this out

http://www.watercure.com/sci_myth.html

We in the medical profession, totally oblivious of the vital roles of cholesterol in the body, have been duped into thinking that it is this substance that causes arterial disease of the heart and the brain. The pharmaceutical industry has capitalized on the slogan of "bad cholesterol" and has produced toxic-to-the-body chemicals that minimally lower the level of cholesterol in the body and in the process cause liver damage to thousands of people, some who die as a result of using the medication.

It is surprising that none of the frequently quoted and media-popularized doctors has reflected on the fact that cholesterol levels are measured from blood taken from the veins, yet nowhere in medical literature is there a single case of cholesterol having caused obstruction of the veins. Venous blood moves far slower than arterial blood and thus would be more inclined to have cholesterol deposits if the assumption of "bad cholesterol" were accurate. This mistake by us in the medical community, and its capitalization by the pharmaceutical industry, has caused an ongoing fraud against society.

In truth, the so-called "bad" cholesterol is actually far more beneficial than is appreciated. The reason for its rise in the body is because of complications caused by chronic unintentional dehydration and insufficient urine production. Dehydration produces concentrated, acidic blood that becomes even more dehydrated during its passage through the lungs before reaching the heart - because of evaporation of water in the lungs during breathing. The membranes of the blood vessels of the heart and main arteries going up to the brain become vulnerable to the shearing pressure produced by the thicker, acidic blood.
This shearing force of toxic blood causes abrasions and minute tears in the lining of the arteries that can peel off and cause embolisms of the brain, kidneys and other organs. To prevent the damaged blood vessel walls from peeling, low-density (so-called "bad") cholesterol coats and covers up the abrasions and protects the underlying tissue like a waterproof bandage until the tissue heals.

Thus, the vital, life-saving role of low-density cholesterol proves this substance is of utmost importance in saving the lives of those who do not adequately hydrate their bodies so that their blood can flow easily through the blood vessels without causing damage.

Now he doesnt address a lot about cholesterol or heart disease but its very interesting
considering how much of our bodies are water..
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 127
High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 11/17/2013 2:33:53 PM
The bb'ers will always emphasize how important being hydrated is to bodily functions.Reading Grain Brain on my Kindle at the moment.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 128
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Posted: 11/17/2013 5:21:28 PM

It is surprising that none of the frequently quoted and media-popularized doctors has reflected on the fact that cholesterol levels are measured from blood taken from the veins, yet nowhere in medical literature is there a single case of cholesterol having caused obstruction of the veins. Venous blood moves far slower than arterial blood and thus would be more inclined to have cholesterol deposits if the assumption of "bad cholesterol" were accurate. This mistake by us in the medical community, and its capitalization by the pharmaceutical industry, has caused an ongoing fraud against society.


Think about things before blindly cutting and pasting nonsense from the internet.

The response is...so what? The correlation between cardiovascular disease and cholesterol is from venous sampling. Why cholesterol plaques deposit in the arterial and not the venous system is irrelevant- they do and they have been shown to (ever dissected a cadaver?). If you want to surmise the reasons, consider the difference between arterial and venous pressures.


In truth, the so-called "bad" cholesterol is actually far more beneficial than is appreciated. The reason for its rise in the body is because of complications caused by chronic unintentional dehydration and insufficient urine production. Dehydration produces concentrated, acidic blood that becomes even more dehydrated during its passage through the lungs before reaching the heart - because of evaporation of water in the lungs during breathing. The membranes of the blood vessels of the heart and main arteries going up to the brain become vulnerable to the shearing pressure produced by the thicker, acidic blood.


When people become dehydrated, they drink more. Unless you are unable to obtain water, or have some other reason for homeostasic derangement, you do not become acidotic from lack of water. If you became acutely acidotic, you will compensate with respiratory drive and hyperventilate, and for chronic acidosis, the body compensates by lowering bicarbonate. The bicarbonate/Co2 buffering system keeps pH in a very tight range ~7.35-7.45.

As for dehydration of blood in the lungs...it's so silly it really doesn't dignify a response. What is the volume of blood going to the lungs and how much 'evaporation' do you get during ventilation? Does arterial blood have significantly different cell count to venous blood?
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 129
High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 11/17/2013 6:33:22 PM

When people become dehydrated, they drink more


No guarantee of this.Drinking coffee,easy to become somewhat dehydrated.You can get dehydrated in the extreme cold.People performing frequent home phlebotomy use smaller pins and recommend being fully hydrated for a reason.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 130
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Posted: 11/17/2013 10:21:49 PM

No guarantee of this.Drinking coffee,easy to become somewhat dehydrated.You can get dehydrated in the extreme cold.People performing frequent home phlebotomy use smaller pins and recommend being fully hydrated for a reason.


Coffee is a weak diuretic. It is not going to change your serum osmolality to a measurable extent, let alone your pH. As for hydrating yourself before phlebotomy- again, equally irrelevant in the scheme of things.

You would have to be in acute pre-renal failure to have any clinically significant change in pH. We have a very elegant buffering system.
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 131
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Posted: 11/18/2013 3:32:14 AM
By the time you are thirsty you are beginning to get dehydrated.



Think about things before blindly cutting and pasting nonsense from the internet.


Being hydrated isn't nonsense.

The numerous people that are drinking caffeinated beverages all day long is astounding.

I copy pasted that article as an example of "selling water" which is as ridiculous as saying one is selling food/minerals when suggesting them in a thread asking for "remedies".

Harvard health publications:

The Blood Thinner Cure, a book by cardiologist Kenneth R. Kensey, proposes a theory of how thickened blood damages the heart and blood vessels. Dr. Kensey offers a seven-step program for stopping heart disease and stroke by decreasing blood viscosity.

Not smoking -who can argue with that?
Eating a healthier diet- can't argue with that either
Exercising- you would need to do whats safe for an individuals overall health and decide what you can/cannot do
Reducing stress- can't argue that
Taking low-dose aspirin every day ( some with certain conditions/on meds) this could be dangerous for
Donating blood> YE OLE blood letting cure..maybe for some with high blood pressure or other issues
Drinking 10–12 glasses of water a day, but you do have to be aware you can over hydrate.

The first four steps are good things to do for your heart. Each has been shown to help blood flow more freely. Is that why they reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease? Maybe.

You need to take in as much water every day as you lose. According to the Institute of Medicine, it can come from food (particularly fruits and vegetables), or from beverages. .While water could make blood less viscous, its effect on the heart isn’t known but it makes sense for your health so it is sensible to do so.
You should not be thirsty.

Chronic mild dehydration has been linked with cardiovascular problems.

I enjoy and learn from hearing all sides of things, listening to who I deem as reputable/even some that seem a bit out there in the field of nutrition AND western medicine, seeing what they seem to agree on and have reputable studies behind them.

I have even learned from those on the forums I occasionally do not agree with because they made me curious enough to look further into things.

To much coffee can change your PH esp with other acidic lifestyle issues such a bad attitude and to much
meat/sugar/grains.
Tylenol, NyQuil, allergy meds OTC and Rx's are acidic forming also and can be dangerous for other reasons but I dont see big warning labels on the frt of the box/bottle.
You would need to off set acidic beverages/foods /drugs/lifestyle with high alkaline forming foods/beverages in order not to rely on your bones to do it for you.


We have a very elegant buffering system.


Yes we do, again our BONES that we leach alkaline minerals from to off set acidic lifestyles.

Will being well hydrated keep you from having a heart attack? Maybe not ,depending on your over all health and risks, but it's definitely smart to consider.

Oxford has also studied dehydration and heart attacks
Whole blood viscosity, plasma viscosity, hematocrit, and fibrinogen are considered independent risk factors for coronary heart disease and can be elevated by dehydration.

Take someone that doesnt have risk factors for/have heart disease but have a slightly elevated cholesterol and then putting them on a drug I FEEL is irresponsible when you can

ADD FIBER
Recommend lowering inflammation risks by diet/Reducing blood sugar
Exercise
Enough sleep and reducing stress

Recheck blood lipids in 30 days

Add spices and or herbs/minerals that have been proven in studies to reduce heart disease .

If you and your physician have discussed the risks, tried these things first and you still want to take a statin, then do so.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 132
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High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 11/18/2013 9:08:55 AM
statins are a huge scam by BigPharma, prescribed to millions of people, even children now, who are not high risk. The primay beneficiary is of course BigPharma.

at this point, if we can't say ABSOLUTELY that high cholesterol causes, not just correlates with, CVD, then that proves (high) cholesterol isn't a problem.
 satx78218
Joined: 10/30/2007
Msg: 133
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Posted: 11/18/2013 9:22:04 AM
When there's huge confusion within the medical profession, I suggest abstaining from whatever they're confused, conflicted, FIGHTING about, eg, statins. Because ALL drugs have side effects

New Cholesterol Advice Startles Even Some Doctors

The new guidelines, released on Tuesday by the American College of Cardiology and the American Heart Association, represent a remarkable and sudden departure from decades of advice on preventing cardiovascular disease.
According to the new advice, doctors should not put most people on cholesterol-lowering medications like statins based on cholesterol levels alone. And, despite decades of being urged to do so, patients need not monitor their cholesterol once they start taking medication. The guidelines do not even set target levels for LDL, the so-called bad cholesterol.

Doctors are also being told to stop adding other cholesterol-lowering drugs to statins, because those drugs have not been proved to reduce the risk of heart attacks and strokes.

For patients and doctors alike, all of this amounts to a surprising, and at times baffling, change in perspective.

“The terminology that keeps coming to mind is ‘leap of faith,’ ” Dr. Lerner said. “You have to trust your doctor and the people who did the studies that they are correct that you don’t have to check LDL levels.”

“Clearly, the focus is to get people on statins,” ( well, duh, statins are above a business, not a cure)

Statins do more than just lower cholesterol, noted Dr. Valentin Fuster, director of the heart center at Mount Sinai Hospital in New York City. They also reduce inflammation and blood clotting, both of which are associated with heart attack and stroke risk. Drugs that only reduce LDL have not been shown to be effective in preventing heart attacks.

When the committee looked, Dr. Stone said, they found no evidence. It was generally accepted that lower was better, but no one had shown that an LDL of 90 milligrams per deciliter, for example, was better than 100. And the high doses and multiple drugs many patients were taking to get to target levels raised concerns.

“Everyone adopted the targets,” Dr. Schwartz said. “It drove a huge amount of testing and focusing around the LDL number. Many doctors thought it was crazy. We were prescribing higher doses of drugs for older patients, which was probably dangerous.”

http://mobile.nytimes.com/2013/11/14/health/new-cholesterol-advice-startles-even-some-doctors.html

Often, the over-charging, gouging medical profession, widely corrupted by BigPharma, looks fricking stupid.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Posted: 11/18/2013 5:01:44 PM

at this point, if we can't say ABSOLUTELY that high cholesterol causes, not just correlates with, CVD, then that proves (high) cholesterol isn't a problem.


You haven't proven anything, even with your own logic. I don't understand how hard it can possibly be to understand something so simple, which I've explained several times.

Regardless of correlation vs causation, statins in high cardiovascular risk patients has been shown 'directly' with Level 1 evidence to improve mortality. That is based on an INTERVENTIONAL study, not a observational one. Cholesterol is irrelevant, although given the simple fact that atherosclerotic plaques contain cholesterol, it is inherent in the pathophysiology

Maybe this will help you:

Statin ---> improved mortality in high cardiovascular risk patients

Not:

Statin ---> improved cholesterol ---> improved mortality in high cardiovascular risk patients

This is what is demonstrated, regardless of whether cholesterol is an aetiological agent.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 135
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Posted: 11/20/2013 5:25:24 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Skyr, why are you so intent on convincing us of the benefits of statins? Granted, that in some circumstances they offer a medical benefit, that alone doesn't justify the pharmaceutical industry's push to put more, and more of us on statins. Stains caused me harm, and I would never take them again. I'm sure that others have shared my experience. Skyr, you're a bright guy, so why waste your time and intelligence on defending a greedy bunch of corporations?
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 136
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Posted: 11/20/2013 7:34:50 AM

Skyr, why are you so intent on convincing us of the benefits of statins? Granted, that in some circumstances they offer a medical benefit, that alone doesn't justify the pharmaceutical industry's push to put more, and more of us on statins. Stains caused me harm, and I would never take them again. I'm sure that others have shared my experience. Skyr, you're a bright guy, so why waste your time and intelligence on defending a greedy bunch of corporations?


Because I'm not, except in stating the obvious: every company aims to make money. That has nothing to do with whether one should or shouldn't be on statins. Google or Facebook are 'greedy' corporations, but they do not invalidate the use of the internet.

No one has to take any drug. But then you don't have to quit smoking or have a healthy diet either...as long as you accept you are more likely to die of a heart attack or stroke. Statins are one of the BEST drugs currently available for patients at high risk of strokes and heart attacks. In terms of side effects, most are fairly minor, whilst serious adverse reactions are rare.

For low risk patients, the benefits are contentious.

Don't confuse the two.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 137
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Posted: 11/23/2013 1:07:17 AM
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Then you agree that statins are over-prescribed, when the patient is not in an high risk of cardiovascular incident group? My point is that millions of people have been placed on statins, and put their health at risk, for no reason, other than to enrich the pharmaceutical companies. Now these companies want to widen the net, and that's just criminal.
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 138
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Posted: 11/23/2013 2:54:20 AM



Then you agree that statins are over-prescribed, when the patient is not in an high risk of cardiovascular incident group?


Sounds like it and thats the point many of us have been trying to make.

If you go back to post 45

I tried to point out high triglycerides are a major concern and indicator of a high sugar/ grain/starchy/booze diet.
High triglycerides are a great indicator of risk and usually goes along with high inflammation.

LDL is genetic and not something to worry about if otherwise healthy esp if the ratio is good.
Its not a predictor of heart attacks alone.

You can change a low HDL by adding good fats, thus bringing ratio in line
Eliminating/greatly reducing insulin spiking foods/drink will get triglycerides under control.

Harvard-lead study

"High triglycerides alone increased the risk of heart attack nearly three-fold.

And people with the highest ratio of triglycerides to HDL -- the "good" cholesterol -- had 16 times the risk of heart attack as those with the lowest ratio of triglycerides to HDL in the study of 340 heart attack patients and 340 of their healthy, same age counterparts.

The ratio of triglycerides to HDL was the strongest predictor of a heart attack, even more accurate than the LDL/HDL ratio."

I prefer a good ratio of both, but Harvard has at least brought the triglyceride issue to light .
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
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Posted: 11/23/2013 7:24:50 AM

Then you agree that statins are over-prescribed, when the patient is not in an high risk of cardiovascular incident group? My point is that millions of people have been placed on statins, and put their health at risk, for no reason, other than to enrich the pharmaceutical companies. Now these companies want to widen the net, and that's just criminal.


I've no idea what the prescribing practices are in your country. Most of the people I see who are on statins have either had a heart attack or stroke, which immediately places them at a high risk category.

Low risk patients...the benefits are small, although a recent Cochrane review was in favour. As long as the patient has an idea of what they can expect to gain, whether they are at high risk or low risk....the ultimate decision is an individual one. You might have someone who feels it's not worth taking a pill every single day for a 25% reduction in heart attack risk, or you find someone who wants to do everything possible even if their risk is already low. That applies to just as much to statins as eating healthy food, exercise, and smoking.

In terms of health risks...statins are fairly safe drugs...serious adverse reactions are uncommon.
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 140
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Posted: 11/23/2013 3:18:16 PM

In terms of health risks...statins are fairly safe drugs...serious adverse reactions are uncommon.


This is BS, and propaganda of the pharmaceutical companies!
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 141
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Posted: 11/23/2013 5:44:47 PM

This is BS, and propaganda of the pharmaceutical companies!


That is just plainly absurd- or your own propaganda. It is not supported by any randomised controlled trials or adverse events monitoring.

I've met thousands of people on statins over the last 12yrs- seen one significant adverse reaction...and it resolved quickly when withdrawn. No biggie.

Most side effects are fairly mild and not a contraindication.
 statemachine500
Joined: 8/25/2011
Msg: 142
High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 11/23/2013 8:53:42 PM
What about the cognitive effects both short and long term?
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
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Posted: 11/24/2013 7:36:31 AM

I've met thousands of people on statins over the last 12yrs- seen one significant adverse reaction...and it resolved quickly when withdrawn. No biggie


Skyr, unless you're a physician it's highly doubtful that you have met, "thousands of people on statins", and rather unlikely that they would share with you their reactions to their medications. This leads me to believe that you are either a fool, or a tool, and most likely both.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 144
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Posted: 11/24/2013 11:15:58 PM

Skyr, unless you're a physician it's highly doubtful that you have met, "thousands of people on statins", and rather unlikely that they would share with you their reactions to their medications. This leads me to believe that you are either a fool, or a tool, and most likely both.


More fool to you then.

You want my AHPRA registration number? :)
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 145
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Posted: 11/24/2013 11:26:25 PM

What about the cognitive effects both short and long term?


What about it?
 DragonBits
Joined: 1/6/2012
Msg: 146
High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 11/25/2013 4:57:08 AM
In my POV, it becomes very complicated to determine why there maybe some muscle weakness or cognitive effect when you get over 45.

It could be a lot of things, and getting older you naturally aren't as strong. Many older people will assume any weakness or mental changes are natural, they may not even report it. So it goes unreported, maybe it's the statins, maybe not.

Statins are no doubt pushed whenever possible. I got a test, my cholesterol was slightly elevated, they suggested going to a doctor to ask about drugs. The drug companies fund low cost testing, their marketing pushes health providers into suggesting statins.

I have a very high threshold that needs to be reached before I consider any drug. It has to either have an easily observable impact, such as antibiotics, or I have to have a medical condition that affects my life.

If someone suggests taking a drug that may or may not be beneficial, only thing I take that may not be beneficial is ICAP vitamins for your eyes. I can't see spending money on statins when have never had a cardiovascular problem of any sort.
 Peppermint_Petunias
Joined: 3/30/2012
Msg: 147
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Posted: 11/25/2013 5:10:32 AM

Skyr, unless you're a physician it's highly doubtful that you have met, "thousands of people on statins", and rather unlikely that they would share with you their reactions to their medications. This leads me to believe that you are either a fool, or a tool, and most likely both.

^^^^^^
Even if he is.
At the ripe old age of 35 it's doubtful even IF a physician that he has met/treated thousands, much less studied long term effects of any one drug and still have such ample time to post on the forums.

There are many titles of "medical professions" that one can be and need a reg number in A.

Including

Pharmacy Board of Australia

I don't think he is a fool or a tool.
I think he is young, educated in a certain way and full of "pizz and vinegar "as many of us were at that age.

I think also things will come to light for him in the future and he will eventually accept there is a time for drugs and a time for other means in regaining health other than what he has been taught so far.

The medical profession is changing it's thinking. Slowly, but it is.
I just hope the changes do not mean the FDA will regulate supplements and herbs as a result and there is danger in that.

Many that want to lower heart attack risks can do so without drugs but many do not want to change anything, but will take a pill.
Patients are to blame also.

Personally a statin would not be the way for me with the side effects right now esp the risk of diabetes in older women
and how I have seen the mental decline in people on them.

No I haven't seen thousands.I don't need to.
 Skyr
Joined: 3/30/2008
Msg: 148
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Posted: 11/25/2013 5:30:04 AM
I don't claim to be anything. That was sarcasm, in case you missed it.

It was a quip in response to the other poster's 'experience', because everything else I say is supported by level 1 evidence. My personal experience is just that...I could be a nurse, I could be a pharmacist, I could be a doctor. All of them will see more people on statins than you ever will, but it doesn't constitute high level evidence.

Now math is not be your forte, so I think the age thing is also worth a mention.

Most people graduate medical school their early 20s; which means you're vocationally registered by your late 20's or early 30s. An ED physician would see 10-15 patients a day, a GP would see one every 10-15min.

Over 10-12yrs.....can you do a basic calculation?


I don't think he is a fool or a tool.
I think he is young, educated in a certain way and full of "pizz and vinegar "as many of us were at that age.


It has little to do with being 'educated a certain way' so much as simply being educated, or actually looking and thinking about the evidence.


Personally a statin would not be the way for me with the side effects right now esp the risk of diabetes in older women
and how I have seen the mental decline in people on them.


This has only been demonstrated in one trial, which used high dose statins. Take this away and there is no effect on diabetes risk.
 or_current_resident
Joined: 6/3/2013
Msg: 149
High Cholesterol ? Suggestions? Remedies?
Posted: 11/25/2013 8:14:41 AM

It has little to do with being 'educated a certain way' so much as simply being educated, or actually looking and thinking about the evidence.


Amen Skyr well said again as in their thinking is very limited ….. As the rest here,who have no degree in anything in the medically field, chemist, scientist,do not even have being as a Certified Nutritionist….Yet...
ramble on in giving advice to the general public with level one evidence only……
And besides skyr here, who is the only one who talks with proven knowledge in the medicine field. and doing the research to prove it with level three proof.….
So for the rest of you arm chair health healers, please tell me here what in certified degrees you have general medicine,science etc.

And as for all the folks who work in these Alternative Health food stores, pushing this and that to cure all what ails you…with their folk tale,home spun remedies that worked so well back in the old den days…..right…..
You people scare me…and I hope one day they regulate this unregulated industry because of giving false hope, false products as over 50% of your pills only have fillers or what ever else is in it….And if I am going to waste my money on Vit pills, minerals herbs, watermelons,sweet potatoes etc that does not work, other then the placebo response, at least they should be getting what your customers are pay for.



Personally a statin would not be the way for me with the side effects right now esp the risk of diabetes in older women and how I have seen the mental decline in people on them.


And not sure why our "in house alternative health wizard" left this one out….
As for women who had the risk of getting full blown type 2 Diabetes in taking statins, they were Already PRE-Diabetic, obese to begin with……. Hello…. And u need to read whole Harvard Medical Reports a little better…… oooh tay…….
 mitchozie
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 150
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Posted: 11/25/2013 10:57:55 AM
^^^^^^^^^

The arrogance of these clowns astounds me! Practitioners, and supporters of allopathic medicine seem to think they have all the answers. They look down their noses at homeopathic remedies, and denigrate experiences that down fall within their restricted mindset. I earned my BS degree nearly 50 years ago, and am far from being a fool. Believe what you will, and leave the rest of us the hell alone!
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