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 Just 4 You
Joined: 1/25/2005
Msg: 122
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Friendship FirstPage 5 of 12    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12)
In my opinion a friendship is where you meet up to talk, hang out somewhere, get to know each other, and forget about sex! If chemistry is there, just getting out and doing things together is more enjoyable than messing up someone's bed!
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 123
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/5/2009 3:31:04 PM
Like they say even bad attention is attention:
Annoying things keep our attention.. Ya know, like that fly at a picnic.. when we just want it to go away and let us enjoy ourselves without it distracting from the festivities with it's insistant buzzing with it's own agenda every chance it gets. Same ole drone over and over and over.
 StevieCashmere
Joined: 4/22/2009
Msg: 124
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/5/2009 3:54:17 PM
Only those in the know i.e. the mature, know this is one of the basics, just like communication, respect, etc

~sc~
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 125
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/5/2009 4:15:38 PM
I've said this before, buried in this thread or one of the similar ones that pop up from time to time (although this notion of being just friends for six months is a new one on me, lol).

People ought to move at a pace that is comfortable to how they feel about and are getting to know the person they are moving into relationship with. The idea of an arbitrary anything - 3 dates or 6 months, whatever the arbitrary "rule" is - really gets me tho'. It says "it doesn't matter who this other person is, I've decided I've found a "formula" that is going to keep me safe or guarantee a certain result."

It is about relating to a person, not living through a formula. Especially not a one size fits all formula at that.
It about getting to know a person deeply and revealing yourself to them... a connection that is, or should be to my way of thinking, much deeper than a friendship.

I don't like being anyone's formula - there is something deeply offensive to me about that. I just can't see getting to know someone as anything other than an individual process.

I'm a person, he's a person... we're not some cookie cutter formula in the how-to-make-a-relationship factory.
 ladyfish42
Joined: 6/6/2006
Msg: 126
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/5/2009 4:57:09 PM
You may love him or hate him, but Dr. Phil's theory on relationships suits me!

The function of a good relationship depends on two things:

1) a deep underlying friendship

2) the degree to which each one meets the needs of the other

Enough said!
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 127
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/5/2009 5:53:16 PM
Dr. Phil had an affair on his wife.. I believe last I heard, she is trying to forgive him and they are trying to work it out. I believe they will get past this because of their deep underlying friendship. People form deep and underlying friendships at different paces, and in different ways. I don't think he used the 6 month rule for the basis of his and his wife's but rather on their respect, admiration,fundamental compatibility which led to their eventual devotion for each other.

*Post #251 ~ Well said ItsMargo.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 129
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/5/2009 6:49:07 PM
I'd say it's more about her having the "skill-set" to move past "the damage" "his actions" have caused .. rather than him having the skills to "work things out." I would imagine that if he does it again.. She'll also have the skills to be okay (emotionally and financially) after she leaves him.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 131
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/5/2009 8:22:01 PM
While friendship first in this context sounds good in theory...I'm not looking for a friend per se when looking for a romantic relationship..I assume I am becoming friends with them as it goes...and I am far too sexual to wait what I think is an inordinate amount of time ( like six months?..wtf? at my age?...I could see that when very young, maybe)..I have no hard and fast rules...I prefer things to unfold naturally...my only concern is comfort level, and ready to go there...but, if I am really into to a guy , and spend enough time with him, that doesn't take that long...

I really assume that the "friendship"part develops as the relationship does...it seems backwards to me to be friends FIRST...suggests lack of passion? If I am just feeling friendly..I'm not feeling sexual? Maybe it's just me...but, that's how I see it...and I do have trouble believing most men, especially alpha's will wait that long...waiting some yes...but six months? I'd worry about mismatched libidos or sexual dysfunctions myself...

At least that's how I see it....
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 134
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/6/2009 5:47:14 PM
Taking it slow enough to know each other is cool before sex. However, you need some physical intamacy kissing, peting etc. to avoid being thrown into the Friend Zone. Think about superman II and the prison the bad guys were put in. That is the friend zone for guys and they will do anything to avoid it. Therefore, you run the chance of loosing both, a mate and friend if you're not careful.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 135
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/7/2009 9:08:44 AM
These so-called Friendship First friendships are not really friendships at all.

If they were, women would be initiating them roughly 50% of the time and doing about half the work necessary to susain them, but they're not doing that.

These are really sexless dating relationships. They say "friendship", but what they actually mean is they want you to date them, take them out and foot the bill. If they feel you have prospects, they will continue with you; otherwise, they just don't call or do much of anything else which would constitute holding up their end of the plank. The whole thing is based on the guy's sexual attraction and the woman holding him at bay with some vague implied promise of eventual "reward" while the chump keeps persuing her, all as a testament to how "into" her he is.

Such relationships bear little resemblance to friendship other than the fact that no actual sex is happening. In real friendships there is almost always absolutely no prospect of things ever becoming sexual. Nothing interferes with real friendship like sex, and nothing interferes with real sex like friendship.

So the whole thing is based on a euphemism (calling it "friendship"), which effectively means it's based on a big lie about what's really going on.

The essence of friendship is that there is no one "laying down the law" (i.e., No Sex Allowed For Six Months) on the other person under ordinary conditions, not that there's no sex taking place.
 BrianMc777
Joined: 12/24/2008
Msg: 137
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/7/2009 12:30:40 PM
Generally, a lot of people have this tendency to get attracted to somebody physically and jump head first into a relationship
without taking time to really get to know the person first. Since even the most successful marriages take years to wind up in divorce, waiting 6 at least months before crossing the line probably won't accomplish much. It is probably more or less a matter of you being sure about your feelings for somebody.
 JenSaysHi
Joined: 2/23/2009
Msg: 138
Friendship First
Posted: 6/7/2009 11:10:49 PM
I've been seeing a guy for the past two months. Just "seeing each other" as he is not ready for a relationship. (I imagine the only difference is that we are not exclusive). Anyway.

We were physically affectionate- kissing, cuddling, hugging, the likes, but when I told him he was being a bit too sexual and that I wasn't ready for it, he randomly decided that we should be friends first, and then he'll decided whether he wants a relationship with me. His reasoning was that we still didn't know much about each other- which is bogus.

Perhaps we jumped in too fast, but I don't see how one can do such a transition. Exactly what is the point?

Girls aren't the only ones that pull cheap-ass moves like this.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 139
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/8/2009 12:54:53 PM

Just go out with another female "friend" for the night and see how your other "friends first" feels about it....

Here's a better one: ask her to help you pick up a chicks at the mall, or a club, or wherever; a real friend would almost never hesitate to be your wing-person.

It's when she asks you to reciprocate that it gets kinky.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 140
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Friendship First
Posted: 6/9/2009 8:59:32 AM

These so-called Friendship First friendships are not really friendships at all.
Such relationships bear little resemblance to friendship other than the fact that no actual sex is happening. In real friendships there is almost always absolutely no prospect of things ever becoming sexual. Nothing interferes with real friendship like sex, and nothing interferes with real sex like friendship.
So the whole thing is based on a euphemism (calling it "friendship"), which effectively means it's based on a big lie about what's really going on.

Brilliant post.

^^^Agreed. colonelingus..very well said.
Friendship derives energy in an entirely different way from that of a relationship.
I continue to think that it's faulty logic to go down a path that assumes that a relationship is first and foremost about friendship. To me a relationship is first and foremost about attraction and the energy that two people create when this is present. That dynamic, the resultant interplay of attraction and sex need protection, attention and nurturing and this is only housed within the confines of a relationship. Relationships on to themselves have an entirely different focus--and yes, while friendship plays a role in the most successful ones, it is only a supportive one that augments the core union--the relationship.

The "friends first" concept is merely a committed sexless relationship that they want to arbitrate. It's not a "true" friendship. It's not taking your interests into consideration. It's arbitrarily placing theirs above yours. That's not a healthy basis for a relationship. Any relationship expert will tell you that. And yes, it is "juvenile" behaviour, and I ain't buyin' it...

^^^Agreed. The whole friends first concept seems unhealthy to me...resembling some sort of purgatory.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 142
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Friendship First
Posted: 7/4/2009 2:36:40 PM

Friendship derives energy in an entirely different way from that of a relationship.
I continue to think that it's faulty logic to go down a path that assumes that a relationship is first and foremost about friendship. To me a relationship is first and foremost about attraction and the energy that two people create when this is present. That dynamic, the resultant interplay of attraction and sex need protection, attention and nurturing and this is only housed within the confines of a relationship. Relationships on to themselves have an entirely different focus--and yes, while friendship plays a role in the most successful ones, it is only a supportive one that augments the core union--the relationship.
Well said!
 radikal1
Joined: 7/4/2009
Msg: 147
Friendship First
Posted: 7/7/2009 10:51:57 PM

Who told you that I am attracted to this "Alpha" male?
I think that a guy who leaves you if he doesn't get sex is just the guy to avoid!


I think you're just pulling our collective legs now. Women like this don't exist anymore.

-Nate
 varinia
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 150
Friendship First
Posted: 7/8/2009 2:22:48 AM
"I am reading this theme over and over again - like they dont want to invest in friendship with a woman if they arent sure they will eventually have her in the sac .. one guy even said he doesnt want to be someones friend for six months only to be told six months down the road that she "doesnt like him like that" .... wth??"

In my opinion - if you meet someone on a singles site on the net, then the hope is to find a partner for a relationship - not a friend. Subsequently, all the talk about 'let's be friends' etc is just b.s. The thought that 'maybe this will be more' is always there, whether conscious or sub-conscious. You can't avoid it, because that was the intent that brought you both in contact.

So, I feel that expecting someone to wait 6 months in 'neutral' is kind of unfair. They may really like you and aren't really looking for anyone else, so, you keep them hanging on without being willing to go forward.

I would also think that it would make a guy wonder, if there's even any interest in sex at all. It makes it look like it's being looked at like some kind of reward by the woman, instead of being something that she enjoys just as much as a man.

It certainly would make me lose interest in a guy, if he wants to 'just be friends' for a prolonged time, even if I really like him. He may have started off as 'wow, I'm really into this guy' , but by the time he's open for sex I will have cooled down to this only being friend potential. I love sex and it's part of a relationship. They say 'if the sex is good it's 10% and if it's bad it's 90%. To me, being sexually compatible is extremely important and an important part of the relationship.
 varinia
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 153
Friendship First
Posted: 7/8/2009 6:16:34 AM
"In my mind - good sex can only happen when I am at a certain level, I dont get to that level because of sex, I get there because of friendship, quality of time spent together, compatibility, and liking who the man is, and how he treats me consistently."

I agree with that. But I tend to get close very quickly. I click only with people that I can have deep discussions with. Subsequently, we get to know each other rather quickly. So, to me I will have attained a level of friendship before I sleep with someone, it just doesn't take that long.
 varinia
Joined: 1/1/2009
Msg: 154
Friendship First
Posted: 7/8/2009 6:50:52 AM
"It boils down to the desire to bond."

To me the physical bond is part of it, not just friendship. And long-time friendship without the physical aspect leaves something missing. Tantra for example is exactly that: The melding of 2 physical bodies to become one
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 155
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Friendship First
Posted: 7/8/2009 7:19:04 AM

I dont have friendship because of good sex, on the contrary, I have great sex from a good relationship (friendship included) with the person I am intimate with.
In my mind - good sex can only happen when I am at a certain level, I dont get to that level because of sex, I get there because of friendship, quality of time spent together, compatibility, and liking who the man is, and how he treats me consistently.


Urban, I don't think you actually view it much differently than what many others have stated. As you said, the great sex stems from a good 'relationship' which you parenthetically included friendship as an integral part of. So, 'friendship' isn't necessarily what you require as the prerequisite, but rather, a quality relationship which goes beyond 'just friendship'.

You also answered your own question from a previous post regarding men treating their male friends the same way. Of course men are content with 'just friendship' with other males without sex. That is why they are considered 'just friends'. As you, yourself stated, a quality relationship goes beyond the mere friendship aspect.



To some women sex before friendship is like putting the cart before the horse.

I agree with this and will point out that some men view it the same way. I believe though, when it comes to dating and/or seeking a long term relationship, that things get a little blurred or, intertwined. When Cupid flings that arrow at you and it pierces your heart...your entire being...there is a culmination or realization. Our brains and bodies actually experience physical reactions, chemicals are released, etc. Attempting to suppress or conceal those feelings for the sake of trying to achieve a predetermined strategy (or, 'dating rule' as some have described it), is kind of naive and frankly, stupid in my opinion.

I absolutely agree with you that, in most cases, this doesn't happen at first sight or meet. Physical attraction will certainly be there (or not) initially, but that emotional bond...the glue that ties it all together...takes some time (perhaps a week, perhaps 6 months) to build. That is the intimacy...the more-than-friendship...the development and maturation of feelings. From those feelings, familiarity, commonalities, trust, respect, etc. arise...the foundation for Love.

I think for many, sex usually enters the equation somewhere near this point. Most things mentally and emotionally have been shared and expressed...the bond has been formed. It is only natural for us to want to share all of ourselves with that person. For that to be denied because 'it isn't time yet', well, that's simply going to send, if not a mixed signal, certainly a confusing one. JMO.






~ds~
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 160
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Friendship First
Posted: 7/8/2009 11:54:24 AM
Making friends with the opposite gender is fine but if both are single and mutually attracted to each other, I don't see any any benefits in waiting six months before getting physical. Delaying intimaty wouldn't accomplish anything other than giving both an incentive to fufill their physical needs elsewhere.

How would having sex stop you from still being friends? Being a couple doesn't make you stop talking to someone; people who don't communicate will make for poor friendships and even worst relationships reguardless of whether or not they are having sex.
 easy2learn
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 162
Friendship First
Posted: 7/9/2009 9:54:15 PM
It is difficult to master your passions and impossible to satisfy them especially
in a friendship, and nothing weighs more than a secret. P*E*A*C*E Danie
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 163
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Friendship First
Posted: 7/10/2009 7:29:02 AM

No.

You do not start a relationship by being "friends first."

You start a relationship with attraction.

The friendship develops in *parallel* with the attraction. Not ahead of it.

You meet someone. You are attracted. A relationship begins, and so does the friendship.

If the friendship falters, so goes the relationship. People will be hurt, BUT.

Trying to cultivate a friendship first as an insurance policy against getting hurt doesn't work. Period. There is no kiddie end to this swimming pool. Sorry.

"Friends first" = "not ready."


I also agree with this..it's how it's always worked for me ( well, there have been the odd times that I became friends with someone thinking they weren't interested in more and later on something happened..but, I didn't plan on that...). I guess I am too spontaneous and maybe not very rule oriented, or too much of a romantic..I like to get to the good stuff asap..lol..I have plenty of friends, both female and platonic male..I would hope that anyone I become romanitcally involved with did become my best friend...but, it's not how I would start ( kinda means the fireworks thing isn't going on too...what fun is that?..lol)...

I guess I don't understand a romantic relationship that starts out by suppressing the " I want you" feeling...and as mtloophiker says..if it is to protect oneself, it seems way too cautious for me...what's the point of passion and being in love if you don't allow it happen as it happens..and there is always risk..reasonable caution at the very first is smart...but...too much caution just keeps you from enjoying the moment, and experiencing the romantic feelings...maybe I am too much of a feeling junkie...lol...but, for romance, I am looking for the excitement with someone who becomes my friend as part of the process...
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 164
Friendship First
Posted: 7/10/2009 9:03:36 AM
I personally prefer a lot of things to remain unsaid when I'm first meeting someone.
I think (especially when meeting someone from a dating site) it's already a given that
you're sort of auditioning this person to be the other half of your relationship.

I consider "friends first", "I'm taking things slow", I'm not in a hurry", "I'm not going to
settle" all to be disclaimers...and all of them tell me that "yes I am looking for a relationship but I'm not honestly sure you fit the bill."

I mean seriously, if you met the person of your dreams, would you say anything like that to them? Heck no...your mind would be running full steam ahead. So if you do say it you're thinking I'm not the person of your dreams, but I could possibly work out. Who wants to start out like that?

I do find it interesting that some people want to hear the above things (or want to say them) but certainly wouldn't want to hear the other things (or want to say them) that were going through their minds ie. (wow, I wonder what you look like naked, do you have sex on the first date, you're hot want to neck?)

I think there's a song out there for all the people that live with disclaimers...something about not straying too far from the sidewalk. Me? I wouldn't mind running down the center line and zig zagging through traffic.
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 166
Friendship First
Posted: 7/12/2009 6:21:46 PM
I see how it is better to be friends first. We really get to know each other well and can make better decisions before even deciding to date or marry.
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