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 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 165
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?Page 5 of 13    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13)
They say her actions cast "public discredit" on the judiciary.

If found guilty, she could lose her position on the State Appeals Court, a demotion that could end her career.


I dont have a proplem with a death row inmate exausting all of their court challanges. Its their Due Process. If we have Judges like Keller not willing to go the extra mile on the side of Justice and Due Process, then you mightr as well have a Kangaroo Court and hang the defendent without trial.

The law should bend over backwards to ensure the defendents appeals are heard.
A judge that closes her courtroom door at 5:00 pm, like its Miller time, is not a Judge I want sitting before Capital Murder Cases.

If Judge Keller is to busy...It s Time for Judge Keller to try something different.
 C2H5OH
Joined: 4/13/2009
Msg: 166
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 8/18/2009 9:29:24 AM
I'm 100% for the death penalty,but not as it currently is carried out.So I can walk up to a person and just shoot them in the head and be charged with 1st degree murder and get life,but if I walked up to the same person and said "give me your money" and then shot that person and killed them,then took a dollar out of their pocket,I would be eligible for the death penalty.

Why does it make a difference WHY you kill a person?
 AnglFlynToCloseToGround
Joined: 4/16/2008
Msg: 173
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 10/7/2009 7:45:11 AM
^^^^^^ ... SO TRUE ....

AnglFlyn
 dmotz
Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 175
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 10/7/2009 8:28:14 AM
I am all for the death penalty! I personally knew a guy back home who called the cops and told them he was going to kill his wife. When the cops got there, he let the kids go and shot her with a 12ga shotgun. To this day we do not know why he did it. It was cold and calculated..he deserved the death penalty...glad he got it!
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 176
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 10/7/2009 10:00:24 AM
When did Kansas become part of Texas?...
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 177
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 10/7/2009 3:32:34 PM
I have no religious concerns at all. I have thought long, and studied the subject, and have concluded that for entirely PRACTICAL reasons, the death penalty should be ended.
1. No more accidental termination of innocents.
2. We are currently finding and stopping more serial killers, BECAUSE we stopped killing them. They are in prison, available for study. I'll pay additional taxes, if need be, to be able to use the criminals to catch other criminals.
3. I have no certain knowledge, but it is frequently reported that life without parole is cheaper than the death penalty.

One important concern that I don't know how to address: some prison officials have said that the only thing that prevents some prisoners from attacking and killing their jailers, is the fact that the death penalty can be added to their sentence. Additional protection for our penal officers will have to be provided, if we are to do away with the death penalty.
 kaitlinsnana
Joined: 12/18/2005
Msg: 179
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/3/2010 5:19:37 PM
Well, yea and if you're going to have a death sentence, enforce it.

Hard to understand why Charlie Manson is still in jail. When we absolutely know that we don't want these people on the streets ever again,why not death and I don't mean thirty years from now.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 181
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/4/2010 2:58:11 PM
There have been 139 exonerations from death row in the US since 1976, eleven of them in Texas.

I believe in the death penalty for people who believe in the death penalty and then get arrested, tried and convicted for a death penalty offense, innocent or not. Rush Limbaugh stated that "if people are violating the law by doing drugs, they ought to be accused and they ought to be convicted and they ought to be sent up.", until he got caught of course.


Surely the pro-death people would also believe in the death penalty for G.W. Bush who has killed tens of thousands of US service men and women in illegal wars and subsequent PTSD suicides and DU poisoning, as well as the millions of Iraqis killed, maimed and poisoned.
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 182
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/4/2010 9:45:50 PM

It also serves as a deterrent, we know once they have left the mortal coil, they won't kill anyone ever again.


Brilliant - instead, we the state have become their murderers and at many, many times the cost over the cost of incarceration and potential rehabilitation. Say did you work for the last Republican administration's budget department? Probably had some great money saving ideas for them too huh?

 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 183
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/4/2010 10:22:56 PM
Okay. Here is the thing.

I can argue against the death penalty until I am confronted with a violent pedophile.

Then all of my reasoning goes out the window, and I am faced with standing on an emotional conviction.

I think we all have our edges...

And often it is not pretty, and for me, it is in direct conflict of what I try to stand for...




Brilliant - instead, we the state have become their murderers and at many, many times the cost over the cost of incarceration and potential rehabilitation.


And this is where I really, really struggle, because I believe in the sentiment in theory and in practice, until it bumps up against my emotional conviction...

In this narrow area, I have found a wormhole for fanaticism, and a loophole for vigilantism.

Again, not a pretty picture.

It is not easy, holding the tension of two oppositional views.

I think a lot of people find themselves here...



 wvwaterfall
Joined: 1/17/2007
Msg: 184
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/4/2010 10:41:01 PM

I can argue against the death penalty until I am confronted with a violent pedophile.

Then all of my reasoning goes out the window, and I am faced with standing on an emotional conviction.


And that's exactly why we need civilized laws and systems to protect us from our own uncivilized and emotional responses.

The death penalty is wrong on so many fronts, but mostly because by implementing it we lower ourselves to the level of those we condemn. If killing is wrong, killing is wrong. Endorsing the death penalty based on whatever examples of heinous acts we know of is barely removed from endorsing lynch mobs.

Some people do things that justify removing them from society permanently. We don't need to kill them to do that. A life sentence protects us. An execution is simply vengeance, not a trait I'd like to legally endorse.

Dave
 themadfiddler
Joined: 12/9/2009
Msg: 185
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/5/2010 12:29:31 AM
It is an interesting distinction as seen through the eyes of WWI veteran J.R.R, Tolkien as he puts the words in the mouth of his character Gandalf...

“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”

He saw a good deal of death all around him...the "lost generation"

Some people are just flat out monsters, not fit to live in the society of their fellow humans, whether by dint of a badly fractured upbringing, genetics or both, or a life path gone horribly wrong...the world is far from kind to some, and less to their victims. And these may not be savable. Thing is, unless caught in the act, many times how would we know?

Our current legal system is established on the basis of innocent until proven guilty and even with the advent of modern forensics, the innocent still have faced death row from time to time.

This is not a question of using force to prevent a crime or lethal force to do the same, but following the commission of a crime, with full intention and foreknowledge, in cold blood do we institutionalize state murder of any individual. I just can't say yes, even for the most heinous criminal. Life at hard labour, under military prison style incarceration (no one says it has to be a picnic) would be suitable...especially for those deemed irretrievably damaged. No need to let them sit and watch tv on the gov't dime. I am sure the prison toilets are never shiny enough.

But allowing the state to kill anyone is a slippery slope that we don't want to return to. Just ask any former Soviet bloc or any current Chinese political dissident. Or anyone convicted of certain crimes in Saudi Arabia...

No thanks, I'll pass.
 Sweet_Le_Senza
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 186
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/5/2010 5:21:18 AM
Death penalty is always up for debate and the interesting thing is the majority don't have a clue about the justice system, legislations, the court process, criminal behavior or forensic crim. And yet they think they have the best arguments for the death penalty kind of like ...."you must be a liberal!

If that isn't in this thread somewhere I'd be shocked!

Here we go!
1) Death penalty is about revenge! That's all! Deterrence is a myth!
2) It doesn't save money! The offender has the same rights as every other citizen and is protected by the constitution ie to have a fair trial (and that's a joke but I shall get to that in a minute) therefore if the death penalty is given do you think the defense is going to leave it at that? No! It's going to go to appeals then to Supreme Court! That's a lot of money!

Look at Robert Pickton for petes sake and we don't even have the death penalty! >:/

he's going to jail no matter what and they want to give him a new trial because his rights may have been violated! So that cancels out that argument!

3) The fair trial aspect....bullshit! Private attorney vs public defender! Nuf said!

4) Wrongful convictions

I could go on all day!




 Sweet_Le_Senza
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 187
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/5/2010 11:04:35 AM

Why would one person's murder be less to warrant the maximum punishment.






That is by far the silliest statement I’ve heard. I’ve heard from others and like yourself they have no academic background in law.

Murder is different in many different cases. Like cases alike doesn’t work.
Let’s say a man wants revenge on a pedophile for raping his kid so he kills him! What do you suppose his sentence should be? I mean it is murder. That’s fact! We don't have a vigilante system, nor a justice system. It's a legal system. The word 'justice' in the justice system is rhetoric. And a lot of people get confused by that. It's not a justice system. It's a LEGAL system!

Let’s say a woman comes home and kills the man who has been beating her senseless for years. This woman has no criminal record, and 2 children. What sentence would she get? Cuz its still murder!!
What about an individual who suffers from schizophrenia and kills someone while in a delusional state?
What should his sentence be?
 migivadamsbusted
Joined: 4/30/2007
Msg: 188
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/5/2010 4:16:51 PM
Yes I believe in the death penalty, and I believe we don't use it enough.
 xxxDINOxxx
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 189
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/5/2010 8:38:28 PM
OP, I myself do not believe in it, no. I wouldn't give it out if I were on a jury (thus I suppose making me automatically unfit for any potentially capital case as a juror). I do believe in sentences like life imprisonment, in some cases with no chance for parole. That to me would be the worst punishment anyway. Talk about removing all hope. Especially if the person is younger, as many violent offenders are.

I don't believe in it for both religious/personal reasons and also because I believe the US stands today in such poor company globally (for such an advanced country in many other ways) with the other countries who have not yet abolished it.

I mean, why should we (the US that is) be on a list of countries who still allow capital punishment with the likes of Iran, North Korea, Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan, Saudi Arabia, Libya, Cuba, the Palestinian Authority, Yemen, the Democratic Republic of Congo, the Peoples Republic of China, etc ??

Such bastions of civil rights as Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan, as well as Latvia and El Salvador, have beaten the US to catching up with the rest of the world on this issue... Uzbekistan and Turkmenistan have outlawed the DP. Djibouti won't kill any convict, since 1995, Guinea-Bissau since 1993, Angola since 1992, Stalin's home country of Georgia since 1997. Russia has had a de facto ban on it since 1999. Rwanda outlawed it in 2007! My feeling is , the US can do better than this. Sorry, just my opinion.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0777460.html
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 190
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/6/2010 1:09:39 AM
I would like to see them actually USE the death penalty
I understand TEXAS actually uses deathrow like short term parking at an airport
Manson should have been gone long ago. There is evil in the world, and if it is sentenced to death, then get on with it.
90days fried and dead or our money back guarantee....'
 SAguy_06
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 191
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/6/2010 4:07:38 AM
lets be clear, Texas does not convict and inject all on the same day. In Texas today, most death row inmates stay on the Row an average of 4-5 years. Prior to 1990's, inmates were on the Row about 10-12 years.

I hope long gone are the days of lazy law enforcement looking for fallguy, picking someone because of their color or ease of conviction. Most Capital cases in Texas are handled by the book, professional LE, good forensic techniques, and tough DAs
keep High Profile Capital cases solved...Whether the person is put to death is ancillary.

Due process and the Constitution allows death as a punishment, whether we use it as a society, is up to the people.

..."nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law"...
from the 5th amendment to the Constitution of the U.S.
 m14shooter
Joined: 10/2/2009
Msg: 192
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/6/2010 4:41:55 AM
With the way police and prosecutors lie to get a conviction I am against it. If there was the same penalty for wrongly convicting someone in a death penalty case I could look at it as a deterrent but it never has worked for that so again no. I remember hearing of several cases of people that were weeks away from execution being cleared by dna and the prosecutor still wanting to go after the person and I want that power taken from them. The law is corrupt.
 Sweet_Le_Senza
Joined: 6/1/2007
Msg: 193
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/6/2010 8:18:21 AM

Prosecutors don't have the power to order execution.


They actually have more power then you think! ;)
 Super_Eve
Joined: 10/23/2008
Msg: 194
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/6/2010 1:03:08 PM
This is not a question of using force to prevent a crime or lethal force to do the same, but following the commission of a crime, with full intention and foreknowledge, in cold blood do we institutionalize state murder of any individual.


I agree 100% intellectually and when I think rationally about this, my own reasoning follows along the same lines.


“Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then do not be too eager to deal out death in judgment. For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”


If I could, (and if someone were to try to seriously harm either my children or a close loved one) I think I would; wouldn't that fall under vigilante "justice"?


But allowing the state to kill anyone is a slippery slope that we don't want to return to.


I can understand and most definitely empathize with this sentiment.


Just ask any former Soviet bloc or any current Chinese political dissident. Or anyone convicted of certain crimes in Saudi Arabia...


Are you providing examples of totalitarian governments in an attempt at an exaggerated correlation? The death penalty is already in place here in the States.

And globally speaking, what about those have committed war crimes? Should they simply be imprisoned? Would they not be a rallying factor in those who wish to see them free, thus perpetuating war?

I am merely trying to achieve an emotional and intellectual congruence with regards to my ideals, and this is an area where I struggle...

 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 195
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/6/2010 3:51:06 PM
I am wondering what the hard-core death penalty advocates feel about due justice, when people we train, desensitize and dehumanize "targets", kill civilians around the world with impunity. I personally know a young man who, with his unit, mistakenly took out a family of 14. His only punishment is to live a life with PTSD, self-destructive behavior and suicidal thoughts. There is an increasing incidence of "collateral death" happening as we mechanize and sanitize our wars on the world. The video in the following links illustrate how our troops have become judge, jury and executioners of innocent lives. The harshest part of watching them is the laughter, joking, and lightness they take in raining down death. At one point they are giggling about a body being run over by a Bradley. Do these people deserve the death penalty? Can they be rehabilitated? Will they be able to stop killing on a whim when they are re-introduced to civilized culture? Just curious on what kind of killing does not deserve the death penalty.
Warning..very unsettling for people with PTSD from war, sensitive people and people with humanity still in their souls. Two journalists and two young kids were among the victims.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/05/wikileaks-exposes-video-o_n_525569.html
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 196
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/7/2010 10:31:57 AM
i for one do not believe in the death penalty, the reason, is simple, and it is one that every one knows, if you have a tone of money, you can get a lawyer or lawyers to tie up the system for ever, and yes rich people get away with everything, even murder, our system is really flawed
a poor person, can get year for, for robbing someone, if that person is killed, than have his or her life taken from them, at the same time, ,,i will use bernie madoff as an example, his 65 billion, mugging has gotten him what, prison, is it not odd that the man that stole so much from so many people, and charities, which in fact resulted in many more deaths than any serial killer in history, once in prison, was diagnosed with cancer(a little odd isnt it), and is now living in relative luxury,murder is murder, the people that needed the charity, are dying, many old people lost there ability to live loosing everything, many took there own lives
the justice system does not work, it does not work at all, not in canada, or in the united states
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 197
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Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/7/2010 9:43:40 PM
I'm against the death penalty totally, except with the possible exception of terrorists using weapons of mass destruction - or war collaborators. These are exceptional cases, and still would be held to the highest possible standard of proof to be considered.

The Dutch outlawed the death penalty in the 1930's ( if I remember correctly), but temporarily brought it back at the end of WW2. They executed the worst of the collaborators - and then banned it again.

There are some things that have to be dealt with in such a manner - but not in the regular course of events in criminal trials.

Other than that, even for the worst killer possible, it's a no go for me.

I think a life without parole is a worthy penalty for such crimes.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 198
Lets Talk Politics - Do you believe in the Death Penality?
Posted: 4/7/2010 10:14:23 PM
I've always been against capital punishment (ew...talk about a greasy term), I have two areas I can go to the fence with the waffle iron on medium-high, knowing full well that one is a purely emotional conviction and not reasoned, the other is just a reasoned solution to the worst possible quality of humanity.

1. Child Predators/Sexual Predators - I think I can make an exception not just because of the crime, not just because of recidivism --> but because I can so very easily dehumanize them because I think that their actions do this for them already. So sue me... I'm a parent, it's a emotional conviction, reason is not a persuading factor when I let my mind drift to ....what if. (parents will know what I speak of, non-parents may, ...but not really). It's not a reasoned place, I admit it, ...but I do so without shame.

2. Those Who Profit From War: (it matters not to me what "side" they're on), this one's more pragmatic. I think profiting from war should be a (the ultimate) Crime Against Humanity, a Capital Crime.

From the CEO of GE down to every single share-holder of any multi-national corporate war profiteer, to the guy who assembles landing gear struts on an A-10, to the software engineer who writes the binary code that guides an ICBM. All of 'em. Because I think that if we're going to consider, even remotely ...that a death penalty can be a deterrent, then consider not just the greater good, but the greatest good. War is an even worse cancer on human dignity, justice and death by proxy than even the death penalty could ever be. In this, I feel no hypocrisy, ...and no shame. Make it "the law" and beat those swords into plowshares, divest from the profiteers of the ultimate human suffering, quit that job if you have to, ...or else.

The first comes from the worst nightmares a parent can have, the second from the dreams of a greater good, a basic human dignity.

A "Death Penalty" is a barbaric proposition, but not the most barbaric proposition our species is wont to perpetuate.

....just sayin'

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