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 Lobo_Corazon
Joined: 2/6/2009
Msg: 46
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So is love a choice?Page 2 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say WG. If you "choose" to allow a spark to grow, to blossom... isn't that a choice?

People make choices. Nobody is debating that. But if it's possible to choose to start or stop loving a particular person, I haven't figured out how (and I'd be very interested in learning, because I've been in a relationship where I wish I had fallen in love with her but it just never happened!)

You mentioned encountering a couple of men who you felt you could have fallen in love with, and choosing not to pursue a relationship at the time. Are you implying that you think if you had chosen the relationship, you would automatically have fallen in love?

Choosing to pursue love (ex. signing up for a dating site with a positive attitude) doesn't guarantee love happens, and when you are in love you can't just choose to turn it off. As someone mentioned, if it were a choice, nobody would have broken hearts (except the masochists, I suppose!)
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 48
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/9/2009 9:29:23 PM

I don't think I understand what you're trying to say WG. If you "choose" to allow a spark to grow, to blossom... isn't that a choice?

IMO, the choice here is that you choose to be open to receive. The love that you (may) find yourself in after you find someone you spark with is not a choice.


Allow me to clarify... I am no more "burdened by my past" than the average person coming out of a bad relationship (as everyone is... because that's usually why they end).
I didn't mean to imply that you were. Pardon my use of the word "burden" that was simply used for lack of a better term. I have great respect for people who take time to get over their past relationship before starting another.. "Ducks in a row" is a good thing in my books.


I guess what I'm struggling with is the distinction you see in people "allowing" themselves to feel open to love as compared to people making a "choice" to be open to love. No matter how I flip that around in my noggin, both look like choice to me.
I realize that I can be convoluted in the written form at times .. so here goes another try: For eg: You chose not to let yourself fall for either of the men who you spoke of in your post. Had you been ready to receive love and the right ingredients were there then I think you would have fallen in love..(all your ducks in a row) you would not have simply said to yourself.. well I like this one, I think I'll choose to love him.

I think most of the thoughts being expressed on these forums are based on our own experiences. I haven't only had one relationship in my life and I haven't lived without talking to others, reading books and doing a sizable amount of contemplation on some of these questions. That doesn't make me an expert or even make me right. It just makes me just another forum participant offering her thoughts to a question.
Actually, only a few of my posts are based on my own experience.. Most of them are given using just my common sense and my philosophy on the subject.. It depends on the type of thread that grabs my attention.. Some of course are based on experience.
God ( and most people who frequent the forums lol) know I'm no expert either, I'm also just offering my thoughts, but mostly my opinions. I will add that I find your posts sensitive and always worth reading.

Cheers

Thanks for the pleasurable exchange.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 50
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 6:56:52 AM
Given that the vast majority of people believe that not only can people NOT control who they fall in love with which again I differ, people see a ring and they immediately close themselves off and do not allow feelings to grow, there is also the implication that one cannot control falling out of love.

So when there is a break-up and we have the umpteenth thread on how do I get over this and people tell the OP that he/she must first decide to get over it, what is the difference?

Also, if we don't have any control over this and many have stated that they will always love the other person at least as a human being, what does this say about the people that claim to have no feelings whatsoever for an ex? Does this make them as much or more damaged than the people who clearly are not over an ex?
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 51
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 7:17:51 AM

Sometimes you are just brought to your knees.......without a second to think about it.
If you've ever been in Love....really in Love, not just in the illusion of love...I believe it inhabits every micrometer of your being....even on a cellular level. It's that huge.

That's the love I'm talkin' 'bout.

^^^Great post kimbo...
That's the type of love I've been talking about ...that's why I STILL don't understand how anyone can actually believe that there's a choice involved .

You can only choose to be involved....but really, if the love is as described above.... even that may be out of your hands...
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 53
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 8:14:24 AM

Again, love is a choice. A sane and healthy person will sit back and look at the initial attraction factor and then take that interest and see if it goes anywhere.
I see Only a sane and healthy persons will systematically choose love.. Riiiiiighttttt! so what do you call the people who chose love only to bale on their partner just before they're going to get married ~ because it finally dawned on them that they were'nt actually in love ~ have they CHOSEN to love the wrong person? Are they people who have bad choosers? Are they still considered sane and healthy? Did they agree to the marriage because they only thought they were in love because all the right ingredients were there so the tangible things equated to being in love?

It would appear that whether love is a choice or not those that say they choose are no more successful in finding lasting love then the rest of the population.. IMO; some are capable of choosing or falling into functional love. Others are destined to always fall or choose dysfunction .. they are the ones that are not emotionally or mentally healthy and it has nothing to do with whether or not they chose or fell into it.

BTW: Being sociopathic is far deeper than just being "anti-social" these people are incapable of "normal" human emotional responses and they are extremely calculating on how and who they fake their responses to in order to get what they want .. Whatever that may be.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 54
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 8:17:56 AM
Love is not a choice. You cannot go about and select and be in love with Mr/Ms Perfect just because they look like they will guarantee you a life free of a train wreck.
All sorts of people get their lives twisted in knots for all sorts of emotional reasons...and that risk lies within every one of us....life happens some cope...some could cope...and now they can't.
People fall in love - 'the who' is out of their hands.
People can choose to act or not on the love they feel for someone....
That's the only part that's within their control.
No amount of vetting and decision-making in advance is guaranteed to spare any of us from heartbreak or a train wreck, regardless of who we love.
Why are people so afraid to risk and therefore love?
Anyone of us could make the headlines with a love interest, a spouse or child..
Life changes people...sometimes noticeably--sometimes imperceptibly...sometimes going undetected for decades until the snap...
We didn't see it coming...he was the pillar of the university...she had an established portfolio...she was single mom who was devoted to her kids...he had one bad break after another....that boy was the nicest kid I ever knew...the girl went from one foster home to the another...whatever the story...whoever the person...there is risk.
Vet people all you want...try to minimize the risk however you want...you cannot choose who you love in order to love 'well'...
The person who trips your switch...and 'does it for you'...might not be what you want or what you expected...deal with it.
Mental illness or emotional turmoil is within flirting range of each of us...
People change...people get sick...conditions in life change...train wrecks happen to all sorts of people...not just the 'Springer-folk..
No amount of 'choosing' is going to spare any of us from any of that....

jmo
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 56
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 8:39:30 AM
That was not a personal attack... It was a disagreement (or attack if you Must) on your asserting that anyone who doesn't think love is a "choice" as being insane.

It's not you that I'm having this rebuttal with .. it's your Ideas..
You don't have to tell me that your friends in the field think you are quite delightful .. I suppose you are.. It's what your saying that I put to question.. not you.

If you look at AS.is's response.. you will see that she does not force her idea on anyone.. she just states her belief.. I find myself questioning people's ideas .. only when they think and write that mine (and others who think the same way) are not the right way or, "insane" as you put it... and , it isn't the first time you've done it.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 57
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 10:36:55 AM
Here's a scenerio:
There is absolutely no intial physical attraction.. in fact.. you find them the complete opposite to your ideal.. however; you are placed in that persons company for extended periods of time. As time goes on you find yourself having feelings..other than platonic... even though you didn't find them physically what you previously deemed as being attractive.. Next thing you know, you are thinking of them when you're not with them, you anticipate your next opportunity to be together and all the other things are there that you, as an individual, point to being in the early stages of love.. you have fallen in love with someone you would never even think was right for you. If you were consciously choosing. this type of thing would never happen.
> Now.. This is where choice comes in: You are at the "make a choice. stage.." You and the one who you have fallen for and he/she for you, can consciously decide to proceed into a relationship or, you can control your emotions because consciously you know it would never work other than in the short term and that is not what you want in a relationship.

In the above scenerio ! You still have fallen for them because you couldn't help it... but you're aware and emotionally healthy enough to choose to Not proceed where the love could take you.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 58
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 10:56:23 AM

wishes granted, that's exactly what I tried pointing out back in message #117, regarding "intent".
I know Rick.. I was just trying to illustrate it by example.
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 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 11:41:55 AM
Let me assure you that (to me anyway) "to make like bunnies" has little to do about Love. "to make like bunnies" stage with no other component is just lust. Once I find someone attractive.. it has a lot more to it than just physical.

primal lust and initial attraction is NOT love.
No kidding!

After you have gotten it out of your system, you can look back at him and think what a creep he is.
Perhaps you make love to people who you look back on and think of them as a creep.. however; I do not make love with that type of man and, who I later looked back onto and thought of them as a creep. I'm sorry that has happened to you.
Edit with a further thought: I'm lucky to have had no regrets. IMO: Anyone who thinks that love is a choice and then looks back to when they fell in love with someone then later considers them a creep .. well, they are these so called 'victims' who refuse to take any responsibility for what happens to them in their own lives.
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 2:53:28 PM

To Wishes...what about the guy you were describing who you were in lust with even if you didn't match....et al...??? Somehow, for someone who believed inital attraction was love, I find it hard to believe you haven't been a "victim" of some of these interactions...
If you read (which I know you can, but you seem to have a hard time with comprehension ~ If you don't understand then please enquire further) Where did I say it was "lust", where does it say we "didn't match" .. look hard, you won't find it, because I never said that. I do not believe that "initial attraction" is love.. If you read again.. you will see that I said the exact opposite.

It was you who read it that way. No, I'v never been a "victim" (believe it or not)
To be a victim.. I would have to have been forced into a situation that I had no control over or, that was not fulfilling or mutually beneficial to me. I've had my heart broke just like most of the rest of us who are here..You included.. but no, I was no 'victim.'

You'll continue mis-reading and mis-understanding even the most elequent of posters .. that I am sure of.
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Well I can see why the Pharmaceutical conglomerates are so wealthy, especially when there are so many who are under the impression they have no control over their emotions.

I realize love makes some people feel, look and act crazy, but they are not supposed to be.

This is the kind of thinking that makes people kill someone in the name of love, because they think they have no CONTROL. "I can't help feeling this way, and I just can't stop loving him/her"
I think you're describing OBSESSION .. not Love.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/10/2009 10:11:04 PM
^^^ But Mike, do we consciously CHOOSE to have these neurotransmitters released? Do we say to ourselves "ok.. he/she's the one I choose to love, release neurotransmitters now," or do they just release involuntarily on their own?
 Stormwolf
Joined: 2/23/2009
Msg: 67
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 2:57:24 AM

But sexual love? You jump into it or you slide into it but, either way, you're choosing


You can fall in love and not have the choice of "sexual love."
It could be a moment where a platonic friend captures you
with a random act and your heart tells you "wow." She
may be in a position forbidden to you (don't get it twisted.)
So you love her from a distance, however, you really,really love her.
Not infatuation ( you've known her for sometime), but
still ....love not by choice. Truly, you may hold those
feelings for years ...unspoken...from that distance wishing
you didn't have these feelings, however strong!
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 6:52:43 AM

No WG but we do choose the stimuli that activates the neurotransmitters..
So then that would mean we don't actually choose love.. All we've done is choose who might activate the neotransmitters we haven't chose the actual end result that is love.

Falling in love in a sexual relationship is different to loving a child. For most, there is no choice but to love your own flesh and blood.
Here's how it was for me.. When my daughter was born.. I was in awe of her, but I didn't automatically "love" her and I didn't just choose to love her.. but as the days and weeks went on I fell to love her as naturally and as effortlessly as if she was my flesh and blood.
Also: when I find myself 'fallen' in love in a romantic relationship, the only choice I make and, it is thought about is "this is a little scarey.. how do we proceed from this place of love I find myself .. the future together/or not, is the choice, not the actual love for one another ..
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 8:24:46 AM

I also believe alot of responses from posters are based upon their own past experiences
And in this particular (great) discussion that's really all anyone can go on. No?

Love is not controllable, per se. But ones actions can mitigate or intensify those feelings that are beyond ones control, by limiting exposure. By limiting exposure, and with time, those feelings beyond ones control, subside.
In the two times in my life that I've loved.. this has been my experience. I'll add that in my beany little brain and my great big heart.. Love never really goes away.. you just become indifferent to it's emotional effect and it morphs into a different kind than that of being "in-love." I've been fortunate enough for it never to have morphed into hate or feelings of them having been a "creep."
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 8:50:18 AM

Someone once told me, long ago, that if one has a soft heart, it is best to accompany it with a hard a$$...
Being a "hard-azz" is a learned behaviour that is acquired through cause and effect... So it would have to have been caused.
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 10:01:01 AM
^^^ If only life were so simple, so black and white, so naive and innocent. One chooses to try the addictive substance.. they don't choose to be addicted to it .. or no one would ever choose addiction if they had that option not to.

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 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 3:07:26 PM
^^^ oye vey!

Perhaps it's like planting a watermellon seed, we choose to plant the seed, we choose to water it, nurture it, but we don't exactly choose the sweetness of the fruit...perhaps the end result may be out of our control.....I'm now sitting on the fence with this discussion.
That's why your threads are so great.. you acutually make us all think outside the box.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 3:27:29 PM

I agree with giggle, addiction of any sort IS a choice, saying it's not is rendering your powers to the substance...
Okay.. here's my thinking outside the box on this one: You (the general you) have heroin in front of you..
1. You choose to try it. Your friends say it great.
2. You really like it, so you choose to use it again
3. Wow that helped me get through some stuff, I'll choose to use it again.
4. I think I'll choose to give up heroin.. it's costing me way to much money.
5. Hey.. I'm not choosing these withdrawl symptoms.. I'm not choosing to be sick and shaking, I'm not choosing to need more of this why can't I just not do it?..
6. I now need to get more so I can stop feeling so sick without.
7. I now need even more because what I was taking before still isn't making this sh*t go away.. etc.

You chose everything that led to the addiction, except the addiction itself. Addiction is the EFFECT of your choices. Now.. it's up to you to make choices again.. such as: get help with the withdrawl process and break the addiction or, continue with the addiction and it's consequences.

I invite you to try to put me on the fence about the state of "addiction" being a "choice" Edit:
The one committing the murder might not like the outcome but he chose the path he's on.
Yes.. he chose the path to commit the murder but he didn't choose to suffer the consequences of his actions (death by electric chair or a life in jail.)
. . so far giggle hasn't yet convinced me to think differently.
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 4:05:16 PM

We have NO choice as to what the drug can do to us, the affect IS out of our control...BUT we DO have a choice whether or not to take these drugs knowing too well the affects it will have.
I totally agree with what you've said. Looking at it without using street drugs. Chemo.. we make a chose to take it because we want to get better.. but we have no choice in whether it will cure us or not.

Edit: The 'CHOICE' is what you do and how you do it, that's in our control. The effect Is not ours to choose. Simply Knowing the eventual result of our choice in advance doesn't mean the effect is something we've chosen .. the only thing we've chosen is to accept the consequences anyway.

:0)
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 8:34:42 PM
I'm just going to repeat Kaylie's post because it explains it intelligently and spiritually

choosing to pursue and be open to love is a choice.

Who you love is not.

I'm falling into that camp. That who you fall for is not a choice, but being open to love is.

Read this with interest b/c I have been working on a theory of attraction lately in my head and have been toying with sharing it (on a new thread). It isn't about love so much although love can be the outcome.

I will share this much. I have dated many. I have loved only 3. Of the 3, I still have feelings for the first, but the love (that is now 18 years old) has faded to a friend love. The second the love turned to hate. I supposed there is some sort of human compassion love still there but sure as hell no romantic...He destroyed that love little by little ove rthe course of the marriage. And I didn't choose to fall out of love, I could not choose that anymore than I could choose to stay in love.

The third love is recent and still strong. I'm trying so hard to move on but it's difficult. I felt an unusual connection to him very early on. I have never felt that connection w/anyone else. And, like with my first love, i truly believe that this third guy and I will eventually be together. It's gonna take me a year or 2 to believe differently, I suspect.

Did I choose to love him? hell no. Could I choose to stop? I don't think so. I don't know, I know that I don't WANT To stop loving him.

If love were a choice, i think we could choose to continue or stop it...and I just don't feel liek I can do either on purpose. It just "is".

*Insane (mentally ill) people are not capable of rational thought so they are unable to distance themselves from love that is not reciprocated. Stalkers are acting on their obsession (not their "love") I fail to see the correlation between what we're discussing and insane and/or obsessed people.

Edit:
Self-esteem gives you the power to make choices...good choices for yourself.
Love is a choice. It's whether you make good choices for yourself...or bad...
I think self-esteem gives you the power to walk away, because you realize that they are bad.. and that when you do FALL in love it's not a choice.

 Rythmn
Joined: 1/21/2006
Msg: 82
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 8:57:47 PM
the act of giving love is a choice. the receipt of love and the feelings that evokes is not a choice. what you do with your feelings, at that point, is a choice. falling is love is a feeling that is biologically based. nature wants us "reproducing". bonding with the one you have "reproduced" with is a different biochemical reaction. how all that fits into the rest of your life and your world is the rest of the equation. all sorts of things go into that decisionmaking process. some are more survival oriented and some have the luxury of a much higher vision with respect to "love".

it was pointed, out in her sermon by our minister last sunday, that the english language has just one word for "love" but many for the different kinds of cars, products, food recipes, and other aspects of our economic exchanges in the material world. the language is dearth when it comes to describing complex emotions, that in turn, evoke a full range of different behaviours and often are physiologically grounded.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 83
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/11/2009 9:03:42 PM
Nine pages....and I still think it isn't a choice...lol...

Great posts , for the most part all around..special thanks to akimbo, wishes granted, A.S I.S and Kaylie for expressing what I wanted to in a better way...

I think some people confuse choosing to love or be open to it...with being able to choose who you love..and I also think it may be a personality difference between more logical thinkers ( left brained ) and more emotional feelers ( right brained)..

Feelings just are...they can not be controlled...only how you react or respond to them can...and that is something most therapists will tell you..they will even tell you that trying to control them is dangerous...you are supposed to feel them...

Personally, if it could be controlled or a choice...I doubt I'd be single..but, I wonder if all the wonder of love would be gone? IMO, if you make it a practical decision, you would take all the fun and wonder out of it..what would be the point? Might as well have arranged marriages...and what about passion? Also a feeling...can that be turned off and on too?

Even with possible pitfalls or bad endings...I'd still rather have it take me by surprise and sweep me away any day..but, then I am both severely right brained...and a hopeless romantic..I don't want to choose...I want it to choose me....


B.S. : Mentally stable people do not become obsessed by love, or make irrational decisions..it is not unstable to believe you can't control something as elusive and ephemeral as love...

PS: And there is nothing wrong with my picker....lol...
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 7:03:34 AM

The very notion that someone can "fall" in love without any power/choice in the matter to do so produces a victim mentality, they become a victim of their own thoughts, and emotions.
We have the power to choose who we could potentially fall in love with, Emotionally healthy people who are open to receiving love and are not sub-conciously avoiding it for their own reasons will choose someone who would treat them properly that they COULD fall in love with. The in-love part for our good-match is not chosen it is by chance.
People who can not think in the abstract (black and white thinkers).. will never see the philosophy of this concept, that is for certain. (Although Arabian is wavering and is enough of a deep thinker to at least reconsider her decision ;0)

People of faith have never met their God (an undefined force) but they believe in his unconditional love..(yet he places many conditions to reap the benefits) How can anyone who believes like that, think in such a matter that they believe they can actually choose love and it could never just happen by chance???

And.. the debate continues ..

P.S. *thanks zangie*

Edit:
God is LOVE
(And he gives you a choice)
The choice he gives you is through free-will. Free-will (in ref. to this thread) is to choose to stay in a situation where you've fallen, or distance yourself if it is dysfunctional.. Everyone here who is divorced or separated has "fallen" only to discover at a later date that the PERSON (not the love) they chose was not right for them.
To those in failed relationships who say you chose love would mean that your picker is just as damaged as you say those that "fall's" is.
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 7:49:28 AM
I'll not debate your faith.. the thread was already derailed once in the guise of "addiction" but I particpated in that one to try and illustrate my stance in the form of analogy.. There is a forum for debate on religion. Perhaps I'll "dare" to ask if you start a thread there.

Oldsoul is correct.. There is a proper forum for what you want to discuss. And if reported, your post could get deleted.

*Peace
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