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 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 87
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So is love a choice?Page 4 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)

Old soul please read some of these post, the people that believe in the power of choice have also been called a number of derogatory things.
If you look back and read.. You will see which 'side' threw the first stone by insinuating that anyone who didn't believe it was a choice was insane, or somehow lesser or damaged in some way. Sometimes the choice to turn the other cheek can be hard to do. But to ALWAYS turn it when the stone is REPEATEDLY being thrown would be considered co-dependent .. IMO ..
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 88
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 9:42:46 AM
"only fools can fool themselves" is not a dig.. It is a quote that says in one statement which usually takes many sentences to describe. "only fools can fool themselves" means that if you are self-enlightened enough you won't lie to yourself."

"You're too young to think you have a choice" is not a dig.. It is a simple truth.. unless you have experience that comes with time and opportunity .. you are'nt able to compare.
"If you can control your emotions, you're the making of a serial killer" If you know the actual meaning of what a sociopath is.. you would understand that they have a mis-fire in the brain.. They do not have the capability to feel emotion as normal people do.. They do learn through observation, to fake the correct response though. So anyone who can systimatically control all emotion on an ongoing basis.. could very well be sociopathic (the degree of sociopathy would have to be determined by a professional which could take many years of therapy). Being able to genuinely feel empathy is impossible for them because they've never experienced what true emotion can feel like so they are unable to correlate.
The older you are, the more you learn through experience and education.

I stand by my belief that you choose who you love.
That is your "choice" and you're welcome to it.

It doesn't have anything to do with how you were 'nurtured' as a child.
IMO it can be, but it can also not be.. Because two children can be raised in the same household under the same conditions but they turn out completely different in the beliefs and psyche's, sucesses and failures.. So logical thinking would be that (if not born with a mis-fire in the brain) learned behaviour is random.
All just IMO (of course).
Now. . I'm starting to take my pop-psychology too an extreme (I suspect you'll agree).. but I like to encourage "out of the box" type thinking because it opens up the mind to other/perhaps more enlightened possibilities.

My apologies OP for my "exuberance" in this thread. God knows, it's not very often we actually have to Think in the majority of the threads around here.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 89
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 10:25:33 AM
Nope.. Even If they had been on your "side" as you call it... I still would have known that they were'nt digs .. I can choose to believe that 2 + 2 = 5. but that wouldn't make it correct.

Now... remember.. someone, somewhere out there may love you.. but you have no idea that they do.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 90
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 10:43:25 AM
What's the exact quote "only fools think that" or "only fools can fool themselves?" I didn't look back (which was foolish of me .. heehee) I was responding on what you quoted in your post.
If it was as you've now stated.. "only fools think like that" .. then yes, I agree it was a dig. I'll let you prove what the exact quote was .. if you choose to.

Cheers!

P.S. This is turning into off topic chat.. if you want to continue this particular debate.. shoot me an email.. This is too good of a thread IMO to be deleted. t.u.
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 91
So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 3:59:57 PM
I don't think love is a choice. You met someone and you love them or you don't, but there is no way to control it. You can control what you do about it.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 92
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 4:04:55 PM

I'm glad everyone doesn't get it...I really am. That makes the precious few that do...even more special and incredible, and mesmerizing.

^^^Amen! or Bingo! You choose...

 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 93
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 4:19:24 PM

I think the only people that can aptly describe love are those who are still married, especially those who have been married 30, 40, and 50 years. Yep they know what love is. (I also include Widows in this category)

^^^Please don't assume that people who are married are the only ones that can describe love or who understand the nature of love. There are any number of likely reasons that explain why long-term marriages exist--- love being just one of them.

In fact, I would suggest that love factored to an even lesser degree into the reasons explaining why long-term marriage were more commonplace before divorce was more readily available and not something to be ashamed of.

I have loved men that I didn't marry and I would presume the same is absolutely true of most here. There are many in long-term committed relationships with no intention to marry and those people are well-equipped as anyone is to describe what the love they feel for their partners is all about...and to speak aptly on the subject.

And lest it not be repeated enough today...love is NOT a choice.
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 98
So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 6:51:03 PM

Was your son forced to take the drug? Or did he chose to take it? He chose his path. He knew what drugs could do. It's not an illness. It's a conscious choice someone made when the first tried the thing they got addicted to. If thinking addicts have no choice makes it easier, then keep on believing.


You are right in the fact that people choice to drink or use drugs, but you are wrong when you say they decide to become addicted. No one decides one day that they would like to be addicted to drugs or drinking. Some can do drugs and drink and then stop without looking back. Some are hooked the first time, and it takes great effort to walk away.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 101
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/12/2009 10:03:27 PM

we make concious and unconcious choices.
Subconscious choices can only be made after bringing the subject of our choice to the conscious.. We have to be aware of what's hidden in order to decide what course of action we need to take.

"Unconscious" How can you make any decision when you are asleep, we can choose the time (or place or with whom) we go to bed, but we fall asleep.. we don't get to choose when the state of asleep will happen.
BTW good analogy with the morning wood Arabian ..
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 103
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 6:38:12 AM
Ah yes Kimbo...Another day at the old salt mine....

Let's see if I can add a more nuanced perspective today in keeping with the overall theme....

"Love is not in our choice but in our fate."
John Dryden

“Meeting you was fate, becoming your friend was a choice, but falling in love with you I had no control over.”

"You can close your eyes to the things you do not want to see, but you cannot close your heart to the things you do not want to feel."

"Love takes up where knowledge leaves off."
Saint Thomas Aquinas

"Love that is not madness is not love. "
Pedro Calderon de la Barca


No, love is not a choice, it just happens. LIKE, now that is a choice.

^^^Did I ever tell you Officer, that you are my favorite POF policeman?? (shameless flirt!)
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 104
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 7:06:41 AM
In regards the concept of "love" as being about more than romantic relationships:

I think you can choose whether to be a LOVING person or not...meaning generally loving your fellow man and all around you..

I have often been accused of being " too nice"...in my mind, that is just an expression of the fact that I choose to believe everyone has the right to be loved as a human being, and even the evilest of us still have some redeeming quality...my father used to say that I would " defend" Charles Manson if I could...not that I think he is right or good in any way, but, I have empathy for who he is, and some of the outside forces that made him the way he is. I can choose to not associate with people like that, but, I can still understand...

Which is empathy...I also donate to a lot of causes and help anyone whenever I can...because I choose to be that kind of person...I don't love them individually, I don't even know them..so, it is an overall choice to take what I think is the moral, high ground...For myself anyway..I love them as people worthy of compassion and understanding..

When it comes to romantic love...I may make the choice to be around someone I see as lovable, but, I cannot make myself love them as a romantic interest...every man I have ever loved...it just happened...I didn't decide to love him..and in at least two cases, I didn't want to...for the practical reasons why not...and hopefully, I responded appropriately to that...but, it didn't change the fact that I still loved them...I have difficulty , personally, stopping my love..even if some may say I have a valid reason too, also not a choice. I may remove myself from someone who is toxic to/for me...but, I still love them. There is one in particular that I haven't seen for years...but, I still think about him occasionally, and worry about him, and how he is doing...

That is why I don't see it as a choice for me...

As far as choosing to remain loving in a long term established relationship...I think , myself, that is only possible if you do actually love them..then anything can be conquered...but, it doesn't have anything to do, IMO, with why you fell in love with them in the first place..or how...I just accept it as that it is.

This has been a very thought provoking thread ( for a nice change...lol..) thank you angel...it has made me evaluate something I really never even thought about before, to be honest...
 Stormwolf
Joined: 2/23/2009
Msg: 105
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 7:14:44 AM

^^^Did I ever tell you Officer, that you are my favorite POF policeman??


Sweetest loves Handcuff's? Kinky in Canada?

Arabianangel needs a part two, considering how good this thread is!
It has brought out some deep thinkers.

I question this...Can you will yourself to love someone?
I believe not. I'm hanging on the corner with Doubt with that one!

Can you will yourself to not love someone?
I believe not. I'm hanging on the corner with Absolutely Not with that one.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 107
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 8:45:43 AM
B.S.: Picking who you choose to date is not the same as choosing who to love..IMO..and those cases you are talking about are almost entirely cases where someone jumped into sex too soon, they don't really know the person at all, let alone enough to love them..that is certainly not what I am talking about, though, I can't speak for anyone else...

Your assumption seems to be that people who don't think it's a choice choose dysfunctional behavior or relationships...that is an entirely different topic in my mind. I certainly am not advocating believing attraction is love either...I am talking about when you fall in love with someone over time..And since, I personally, have never posted any such thing, and I don't think any of it applies to me personally, I don't that it is a fair assumption.

Seaga: of course we all have different definitions...lol..don't we on almost anything? That's what makes it so fun..

My own: when you care about someone so much, you would sacrifice yourself for them ( and I mean that about non romantic love too), when how they feel is important to you, when what they need/want is a pleasure to provide...when you can't imagine not being around them...when there is an us that has blurred the you/me...

At least that is what I am hoping for...lol...

It is a difficult thing to define, IMO...it just is for me most of the time...

Edited for typos....lol
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 8:58:46 AM
^^^^AA: Ok..that makes sense...since I am not a fan of : you chose so you deserve to suffer thinking..and I never say that on a post..(doesn't mean I don't believe in personal responsibility..just means I have empathy and understanding that we don't always do what's right or think rationally, and that no one is perfect, and that sometimes, some people are their own worst enemies..but, not because they are bad or evil...just human...)...I can see that point..
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 10:22:22 AM
I don't know...still seems like oil and water to me...choosing to stay loving is not the same thing as who you fell in love with originally..just two separate issues in my mind...it is a choice to stay in love, and work at it...I still don't think it is a choice WHO you fall in love with...beyond, who you let in your life...but, you can let people in you won't love and vice versa...no guarantees...just because I see a guy as a possible love doesn't mean I will fall in love with him ..just like I can love someone I know is a bad idea...I cannot love based on someone being what appears to be a perfect match for me...my heart just doesn't work that way...
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 10:34:59 AM
BS: I have never said anything wasn't my fault as regards to consequences to my decisions...that isn't the point in my mind..in fact, I barely understand that connection..( and I have no children)..I said nothing about fault...I take responsibility for everything, maybe too much sometimes...it just has nothing to do with who I love or not...

My point is..who I love has nothing to do with if they are a perfect person, or not, or if they deserve it or any such thing..it isn't a calculated response dependent on certain behavior...I love because I can...because I think it is the way to be...I love my family , even with their dysfunctional behavior..and they love me even with any of mine...if I CHOSE to love only those who deserved it in some way, then in my head/heart...that isn't really love....I can control my responses...but, not whether I love or not...it just isn't something I can wrap my brain around...

Can't claim I have always made the right choices...but, then who has...and, it still has nothing to do with whether I love them or not...the choice to pursue something or not is a choice...whether I love someone or not isn't...not for me...
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 10:48:38 AM
I'm not trying to change BS's mind (or anyone elses for that matter) I'm just trying to get her to understand what we're actually talking about here.


Zangie...I don't think B.S meant it that way..My understanding of her post was for all the people that are advocating that "we have no choice as to WHO we fall in love with" these people shouldn't be judging the "poor me" posters that make the wrong choices....I think this is what B.S meant...but it's best if she explains it.....
I don't think you'll find a post where I judged a "poor me" poster. You will find me pointing out (or trying to educated) where they didn't listen to a man that was subtly telling them that he didn't want a committed relationship with them.. which by the way, doesn't mean he doesn't have love for you in any form.. it just means he doesnt' want to be in a relationship with you (huge difference) But.. BS would NEVER understand that.. If you want to educate the "poor me" then steer them to looking within so that they actually KNOW what they want in a partner and what kind of relationship they want with him. . "only the foolish can be fooled"

I think people who are unwavering to the extreme (obsession?) can only fathom loving someone if they are guaranteed love in return. My brain doesn't work that way I am enlightened.,(?) spiritual (?) enough to know that love is mine to give but it is not mine to take. So... I go about my life and when my universe aligns just right .. that is when the person I have "fallen" for and have given my love also wants to give his love to me and that is when a relationship is formed and it lasts as long as both are still loving. That's the definition of a "good picker" to me, and that is why I have have no regrets related to when I fell in love and with who and how chose to offer it...

Apparently BS is more concerned about other posters as well as herself and their inability to accept that love is a gift to be given.
If you can give a gift any gift with no expectation of getting one back.. then you'll understand what I'm trying to convey.

*Kimbo is one of the most spiritual male posters around here.. So (without actually checking) I'd have to say that for him to rag on anyone just for the sake of it.. I'd say once again one has failed to comprehend his intention. Like I said you can choose to believe that 2 +2 = 5 .. but it doesn't make it correct.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 8:26:24 PM
buzzzzzzzzzz.. buzzz, bu buzzz. Bloody fly !

Is irratation a choice? *ponders* *still pondering* ... Nope, it's provoked.
Maybe love isn't by choice or by chance.. it's provoked Edit: Whatever.. Being irratated screws up my focus.. so.. off to work on being open to laughing .. instead...laughing feels nicer anyway. IMO.
 innocentantic
Joined: 7/22/2006
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 9:46:18 PM
We cannot choose our emotions. We can choose how we express our emotions. I choose not to believe in fear and fear-based emotions. This did not immediately preclude me from experiencing worry and anxiety, self-doubt, etc.... but eventually they mostly faded away, because I ceased to BELIEVE in them. So I guess in this sense choice can have an effect on emotions, but it's not as if you decide what kind of emotional response you're going to have to situations in your life... things happen... emotions respond... the brain says "what's going on??? oh, right, I'm sad..."

Of course, love is not an emotion. Love doesn't just creep up on you as a response to something. Love is a psychological (and if you wish to call it spiritual, fine) perception. We believe it manifests itself in any number of positive and affectionate emotions, but it is not an emotion itself, rather it is a regard, a state of interacting with and thinking about another person. Because of this mental disposition, we will experience several "loving emotions" like a warm feeling in the chest (anticipation, excitement, pleasure), fantastical musings about our lovers (rosey mental sunglasses and dreams), concern (anxiety and empathy), but these won't happen unless we've CHOSEN to respect the person, and CHOSEN to be vulnerable enough to this person to make a bond of such a caliber that we would feel love.
 Wishes Granted
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/13/2009 9:59:24 PM

WG…I don't know if this is possible with intimate relationships as such...it's the old cliché of loving someone unconditionally, I believe it's possible to give with no expectation of getting back, but the results are disastrous, with one party harboring a lot of resentment...love is energy and needs to flow constantly, otherwise it becomes stale and eventually non existent...
.. e.g. I once gave a leather jacket to one of the secretaries at our office because she liked it so much and it was a little big on me.. I didn't expect her to get me one that was a better fit. If I kept giving her stuff, over and over when we really didn't have any relationship outside of work.. well that would be a little creepy and I'm sure it would be her that would even start to resent getting the stuff.. see where common sense comes in. If the giving becomes unconfortable for either the giver or, the receiver than where's the fun in that.

And you're right.. I did receive something back which was a good feeling when she was so happy about getting it. If anyone ends up always giving to the point where you feel resentment.. then you should choose to stop giving to that particular person unless you are certain you'll get something back... If the giving becomes un-fun, then there's a good reason to stop it.

IMO The Love we give is unconditional .. It's the relationship that we put the conditions on. and that's why I often laugh when people say you should love unconditionally because not very many even understand what it means.

Edit: We put in place conditions on one another that, if they're violated it will most likely end the relationship.. but the love part still doesn't disappear. After I've mourned the loss of a romantic relationship my love for him just morphs into at state of indifference until a sweet memory brings it to the surface for a fleeting moment.. or, sometimes into the kind of love you feel for a platonic friend.

*Wavezzz to giggle* :0)
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/14/2009 7:44:10 AM

Funny that you brought that up though, who is to say that because we are evolving away from our natural insticts we dont actually recognise love for what it is anymore.

^^^Captain! We have a problem!


Who you love is not a choice.
Love is innate.
The drawing together contrived only by nature.
Our evolutionary path and success ensures that the love finds us quietly leaving no tracks...we cannot fight what we cannot see. Our heart's criteria different
from some itemized checklist of the usual suspects...that remain secondary.
If you want to go along or not - that's the only choice after love finds you.

The origin of love always needs to be your heart....if you continue make love something more about being a 'considered decision', or cross-checking through an amazing array of super duper quality control issues, you constantly work from a position that is as far removed from love, from the innate, from the 'imperceptible knowing' which is really nature alive in usyou that risk loving 'well' in the fullest sense of the word.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/14/2009 2:36:12 PM
^^ I suspect that is close Rick. To my view it is whether we trust our feelings or our thinking. In truth, both come into play.

IME *most* times (certainly not all) people who try to think their way through love do not seem to trust their feelings. << Least ways that's how it was for me back in the day when I thought I could think with my heart rather than feel with it.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/14/2009 6:54:41 PM
^^^ Yeah, Rick, I kinda said that too...it is probably the case to some extent...though I know a pretty left (logic) brained person who agrees there is no choice..so, as usual, nothing is absolute...lol..but, I am wayyyy right ( emotion) brained..and so do I...

The whole concept of love is hard to categorize or pin down to begin with...don't think there will be a general consensus..been an interesting topic to say the least...

On chemistry...I don't know, and maybe someone who does will let us know...but, I believe chemistry is actually involving chemical reactions...which may be in all parts of the brain, and not limited to the parts that determine the right or left thing...

For what it's worth..there is so much about the brain we still don't know, that the whole is love a choice thing may be due to parts we haven't discovered yet..or may have nothing to do with the brain at all...
 TopChuck
Joined: 1/19/2008
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/18/2009 9:18:41 AM

Love is a verb. It's an action one takes continuously until it's automatic, but retains the element of choice. (this made a lot more sense in my head and I don't feel like writing a paragraph to explain my theory right now, but ---love is something you do or don't do)


Sounds like the start of one of my posts, Sheila. It would have been flattering if you had copied and pasted; you would have massaged my huge male ego and probably expressed the way the verb form of loving works.
 TopChuck
Joined: 1/19/2008
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So is love a choice?
Posted: 6/18/2009 10:17:50 AM

How is love not a choice? I choose how I feel about someone...I don't see how love could not be a choice..


Maybe humans are programmed to love, as the natural state?

Maybe when we don't love, it's because we find a logical reason not to love?

Maybe that choice we exercise is based on logic that is triggered by the initial feeling?

The feeling is still triggered by something, we could call "the cause", even if it's involuntary. An involuntary impulse is by definition, uncontrollable.

Would that not make the "love" something we didn't choose, even though we decided not to allow it to continue to be manifest?

Doesn't that mean that "loving" is a choice, but the state of "love", isn't?

Or, is apathy the natural mind state that has to be changed by a stimulus that evokes the feeling of love?

Either way, how could "love" be unconditional, if some stimulus, a "condition", caused it?
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