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 Janet4ever
Joined: 4/14/2008
Msg: 51
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?Page 3 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
Chivalry, to me, is a guy that stands between you and the world... out of love, sacrifice and courage.

But then again, I'm single :)
 Janet4ever
Joined: 4/14/2008
Msg: 52
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 1:48:14 PM

CHIVALRY is NOT an emotion, it IS a CHARACTERISTIC TRAIT and for some a "learned behavior". For some, it is part of our DNA.


What they heck is that. Looks like a cartoon. Fantasyland.

Don't overuse the little smilie's, k? (it's a bit juvenile)
 cooldude
Joined: 4/26/2004
Msg: 53
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 2:17:02 PM

You said" Chivalry and manners CAN be used to blindside. WOW. Way off base on this one. So even when a man does something nice for you...you still think "he's got something up his sleeve"? Please tell me I'm wrong. Please tell me that MOST of you women don't think this way(I know you do). I feel sorry for you, if that's the way you look at a nice gesture.


I think what she was getting at was some people can act chivalrous yet are not really sincere about it.

They try to use it to their advantage to get what they want. Some guys might act like that throughout the entire date yet get mad in the end when they don't get that "Little extra something" before they go home.
 Arabianangel
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 54
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 3:52:31 PM

Boudiaca nd Angel,

You guys must be strong women....anyone who states in fora that they appreciate chivalry...and the motions that a chivalirous man goes thru....is just askin for the feminist and equal rights men to bash the snot outta them.

But, then who would be out there for me? if not for women like u's?


Irish dear they don't make men like you anymore!


Grassroots equality....EQUAL OPPORTUNITY
The right to vote
The right to work outside the home or stay at home.
The right to have a say and do anything political, educational, and legally.
The right to have Human Rights accorded to us.
The right to equal pay for equal work.

To go the extra distance and say that we think the same as men, act the same as men, react the same as men, love the same as men in an emotional and intellectual sense is just being uneducated. We simply don't.
What shows up different physically on us (penis, vagina et al) is also different in our emotional and intellectual make-up.
It does NOT make us less intelligent. It does not make one of us have emotions and the other doesn't. It's in how we react or act out that the differences are there.
Courting is one of the biggest differences between us. Sex and it's drive.
To make a woman think like a man...or to make a man think like a woman is just insanity and brings dysfunction to the genders.
I happen to like being treated as special...just like men like to be treated as special in their own male way.
I like that a man enjoys treating me like he values me. It is also HIS enjoyment. Why take it away from him when YOU don't understand the pleasure he gets from it.
I GET IT.


I could swear that you’re my twin in thought lol….Again, I totally agree with you Boudacia ….Simplicity in my eyes is going back to basics.
 CeU2
Joined: 10/23/2005
Msg: 55
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/20/2009 9:22:00 PM
I think if you're looking to court a woman, chivarly is part of the relationship, at least it shows gentlemanly and romantic behavior. Soon afterwards though, most guys usually wake up and quit fantasizing about being her heroe, the Knight in Shining armour, and find their " damsel in distress" has feet of clay, just as he has feet of clay.
 TopChuck
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 56
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How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/21/2009 4:37:30 PM
LakeCountyGirl said:

Meh, it depends. But its only fair if chivalry goes both ways. Both parties have to show each other the same consideration and respect.

verityone said:

All you've done is dictate what "should" be. You're arbitrating what you think someone else needs to behave like towards you. I don't see any consideration about the "one" who is chivalrous. Seems like the "one" is just a means to an end...
You haven't given any rationalization on why any of these behaviours or gestures benefit a relationship.


It's an exchange. It's an act of cherishing and respecting by the man. It's an act of trusting to be cared for and respected, by the female, while showing appreciation and acceptance of his role.

It's a sign from the female to the male that she understands his role of treasuring her and cherishing her.

A man loving a woman will insist on being chivalrous. It reinforces the relationship he wants to establish with her.

That's the balance Chivalry fosters.
 TopChuck
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 57
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How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/21/2009 7:36:05 PM

Pure drivel.... I couldn't repeat what you wrote with a straight face. I'd feel like a total con artist...


Typical reaction of a man who doesn't know how to love women!!!!

You have only to present your arguments.

We'll listen.

We're all ears.
 ALilMsChevious
Joined: 12/8/2007
Msg: 58
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/23/2009 5:57:47 PM
I still like it. Actually ..love it. It's so uncommon these days and the younger generation has not been taught even the minor qualities of holding open a door for a lady or any of the simple common courtesies that used to exist.

Interesting...when I find a young man who actually holds open a door for me I make it a point to tell him "thank you!" ...his mother brought him up right. Wish the men would remember that.

I still like being treated like a LADY.
 cheerilystrawberry
Joined: 4/15/2009
Msg: 59
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:57:41 PM
I'm a firm believer in *courtesy* (chivalry's a different kettle of fish) - I always try to treat my friends and family with proper respect with kindness and respect, and I only expect my SO to reciprocate that.
 cooldude
Joined: 4/26/2004
Msg: 60
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/24/2009 12:57:10 AM

not sure what gives a 52 year old guy the right to decide how women "ought to act

Most women DON'T KNOW how to act in regards to the subject on this thread...chivalry.


I think they do know. I think you just won't accept on how some of them decide to do it.


And I have to say(and so will others) that your female gender is no way shape or form the "women" that I was taught as a young man to respect, cherish and love.


Probably, for some of them anyway. But that does not make it wrong.

It seems you want women to conform to the way you were taught to treat women.
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 61
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How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/24/2009 5:52:01 AM

I see nothing wrong with equality, but some people define "chivalry" in such a way that it places men in a subservient role for no apparent reason. I'd rather have nothing to do with that.


I agree with this, but can anyone tell me why so many men seem to have an issue with women not expecting them to cater to these kind of silly rituals, which is really what they are, they have no social value other than preening....

How does the fact that I dont want you running and opening the door or "guiding" me around like some idiot really deprive you of anything? I really do not understand this. Do you walk around with your hand on your male friends "helping" them find their way to the table at Hooters? If you dont, then that gesture is purely gratuitous....

And once again, will all these women, who say that a man pulling out their chair or opening a door "makes" them feel like a "lady". What is a "lady"? Or do you really mean that it makes you feel special? This whole lady and gentleman labelling is a bit ridiculous. Do you feel any less of a lady when you have to open your own door? Does the fact that you had to pull out your own chair at the table in any way diminish your "ladyness"?
 Janet4ever
Joined: 4/14/2008
Msg: 62
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:39:21 AM

It's an exchange. It's an act of cherishing and respecting by the man. It's an act of trusting to be cared for and respected, by the female, while showing appreciation and acceptance of his role.

It's a sign from the female to the male that she understands his role of treasuring her and cherishing her.

A man loving a woman will insist on being chivalrous. It reinforces the relationship he wants to establish with her.

That's the balance Chivalry fosters.


I loved this... though another woman called it drivel... to me, it speaks of mutually respectful appreciation. Isn't that ideal?

The only thing missing is the COMPETITION which I feel is the problem with many feminists... they seem to THRIVE on it.

To me, love cannot flourish without humility and adoration.
 2Irish1
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 63
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/24/2009 11:02:50 AM
I have thought about this chivalrous thing...and decided that...it really boils down to men being gentlemen/gentle men and women being ladies. Now, before you go and bash me...let me try to explain...it means extending common courtesy..a manner that one carries oneself...the way one interacts with the surrounding population...I believe these things are taught to each of us by our parents/mentors/ect....in other times finishing schools and higher education....though I would also agree that times have changed and the perameters are different....equality is here...thank goodness...but, some of the underlying premise is still true...
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 64
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How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/24/2009 12:19:50 PM

To me it just enhances a man's masculinity and a woman's feminity, and that is one huge turn on.


Please explain this. Does your femininity mean you cant open a door or operate a chair? Does his masculinity mean that he has the skills to open a door without losing a part of himself?

All of these descriptions of femininity and masculinity are socially contrived baloney that is based on a very limited portion of the population. Do you really think that the peasants and working classes actually went around and behaved this way? I dont imagine those women felt any less feminine because no one was opening a door for them.Cant you just envision the milk maid waiting at the barn door for the farmer to open it for her or the milk man rushing to open the door for the woman buying the cream off of him. The "gentry" certainly practiced this, but they also lived in a very different world than the average person, and often did things that seperated them from the lower classes only to show that they were better than them. So why do we continue these ridiculous social throw backs?
 Janet4ever
Joined: 4/14/2008
Msg: 65
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:09:29 PM
Verity you commented on my post:

to me, it speaks of mutually respectful appreciation. Isn't that ideal?
To me, love cannot flourish without humility and adoration.

your response:

Mutual=Reciprocal=Equal=You can't get any better than that.
When it's all shared equally among two people, you can't get any better than that.
Being demonstrative to someone who means the world to you, comes naturally.
None of these are synonymous with chivalry. Chivalry is contrived and patronizing.

I'm not sure why the word chivalry brings out such negativity, when it is simply "the word to describe courteous behavior -- especially that of men towards women" (from wikipedia).
Resentment for the label and the insistence of including the word "equal" indicates a more contrived tone than just embracing a masculine tradition that is generous and loving by nature.

Too much talk of "equal" to me means you're a scorekeeper... nothing worse than to be faced with one who is constantly keeping track of who did what for whom...

that's not loving.

and it's certainly not what I'd want from a man.
 2Irish1
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 66
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:10:57 PM
Well...there's is one other senerio SG4U....and that's the crack pipe has a bad rock in it and a rant is the next best thing
If you don't see that my friend you're living a lie or in a cave. Which one is it??
 cooldude
Joined: 4/26/2004
Msg: 67
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/24/2009 8:32:13 PM

My question to you is this, what is wrong with CONFORMITY????


You want conformity with disregard for personal freedom. This is not good.


Just think, there would be LESS strife, LESS wars, LESS divorce, LESS abusers of the law. I can go on and on if there was some semblance of conformity.


With the amount of different opinions on this subject, I would believe this would only satisfy only a portion of people out there that believe this. Conformity=control?


And you further stated OP , "that it does not make it wrong". I beg to differ dude.
When a man performs a nice gesture for a woman and she does not appreciate the chivalry of my act......YES that IS WRONG.


As I said before a woman should still be nice if she declines your chivalry. But constantly forcing chivalry on a woman that does not want it/care for it...is wrong in my opinion.


Stand up and be counted dude. Don't be like the majority of men who allowed themselves to be neutered by women. OUR COUNTRY has witnessed a gender role reversal adversely affecting both the moral fiber and values of its people.


Oh, so now I have to be neutered by women just because I decided for myself how women & men should be treated?
I have decided for myself & not because a woman told me to do so.

I don't think your way of thinking is wrong, it justs works for you. But thinking everyone needs to think that way...no.

I think it is a process of finding a woman that agrees with you ideals then trying to make all men & women conform to your way of thinking.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 68
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/25/2009 5:42:46 AM
In this day and age, you get a mix - so while it's appreciated if experienced, it's not expected. I still believe chivalry was big back when dating a girl meant dealing with her parents, and it's less necessary today tho still nice when it happens.

Most guys may not see a woman's parents until after he's involved with her for some time, if at all.

However, I'd call it "courtesy" today and hope that it wasn't gender specific.
 venusenvy777
Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 69
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/25/2009 12:17:44 PM
Ahahahahaha bonjour Sag....you are just having too much fun...admit it!!!

have a groovy day...venus
 GreenEyedGeek
Joined: 6/13/2009
Msg: 70
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/25/2009 1:47:07 PM
Some points of chivalry, like ordering my food for me, are offensive. Others, like holding open doors, can be extended by everyone to everyone. People who are courteous, regardless of gender, are wonderful in my eyes. Being treated like a different species, even one that's revered, is tiring and hurtful -- I'm a regular person, not a goddess or a lady, and I want to stand on equal footing. I am way more impressed by the guys who choose to ignore inflexible gender roles and be good people in their own ways.


How is chivalry demeaning? That's the problem with people like you. You forgot how to act and accept things as a woman.


Women don't all have the same, one-size-fits-all personality, and there's no one way we're allowed to act or feel. Is it really necessary to talk down to grown women as though they were children, just because they disagree with you? You seem to be really upset that all of a sudden people have become complicated -- that one set of rules won't work for every relationship anymore. People have always been complicated, and there has never been one set of rules that worked for everyone. If we were all the same, we wouldn't need to bother with dating at all. We'd just get together with the first single person we met.
 Impossible Made Possible
Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 71
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/25/2009 1:52:53 PM
Chivalry and manners are very important. If a man doesn't care to go that extra step then don't expect extra in other parts of the relationship.
 2Irish1
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 72
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/25/2009 3:52:52 PM
chivalry isn't important to me..in as much as...I provide it!!!!
 2Irish1
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 73
How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/25/2009 4:08:40 PM
^^^^^ditto^^^^^
 cdbergerac
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 74
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How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/25/2009 6:15:11 PM
Historical disambiguation of "chivalry".... since there seems to be some confusion on both sides of the debate.

There are three forms of what is generally historically classified as "Chivalry" (not including Victorian "Chauvinism"). The first and oldest is what is called Baronial Chivalry. For those of you who are talking about Knights in as warriors, and the mistreatment of women... this is what you are talking about. There was nothing in this kind of Chivalry that delt with courtly manners or treating people well. Rather it was a code meant to keep the landed barons from fighting each other or making things rough on the king.

The second form is called "Church Militant". It is the "chaste" kind that somebody mentioned at the beginning of this thread. This kind of chivlary was a religious code that generally included a vow of chastity, extended rules for military engagement, etc.. The Templars, Hospitlers, and a number of crusader groups practiced this variation. Women were not viewed well by most practitioners is this kind either, but there were often rules (at least ostensibly) for treating people well.

The kind of chivalry that gave rise to particular notions of courtesy (and is actually where we get the word "courtesy") and respect between the sexes is Fin'amor or Courtly Love. This is the kind we see in literary works such as the minnesinger Wolfram von Eschenbach and various troubadours, and it continues into Dante and Boccaccio, etc.. In the original form the courtly behavior was highly ritualized, well beyond what people today would have the taste for. A number of very stron women of the era, such as Eleanor of Aquitaine were proponents of Courtly Love.

Ok, continue *lol*
 cdbergerac
Joined: 5/23/2009
Msg: 75
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How important is chivalry in an relationship to you?
Posted: 6/25/2009 6:28:43 PM
By the way, I meant to clear up one more misunderstanding about Chivalry of the courtly kind that I have seen a few people here comment on. The reason the man who practiced this form would be doing things like opening a door for the lady wasn't because she was thought of as weak or needing to be taken care of, but rather because he was in service to the lady. That is to say, she was in charge and it was the man's job to do for her what he would do for anyone of a higher status than himself. It was not a relationship of equality to be sure.

I would also point out that in this form it was often the woman's role to make the first move in initiating romantic interaction. The man had to be given permission to "court" her. This could tie to those thread about whether or not women can make the first move. ;)
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