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 ~ Green Eyes ~
Joined: 8/23/2008
Msg: 4
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?Page 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
Monalove,

you've shared a very valuable experience and I sincere appreciate it. You are probably one of those open-minded people and have your e-mail options wide open, not shrinking them like: age <45. Period. Because some people do so. And then others, who doesn't want to lie, are automatically out of the game. But it's OK with me; it means these people don't want to broad their chances.

I guess I posted this question because more and more often I face situations in my life when people who aren't honest do much better. It's kinda my life experience. :)

But it was a silly act, you are right, man (who called me goofy). If people aren't honest -- will they EVER admit it here? Of course, not... mda. I knew it.
 ~ Green Eyes ~
Joined: 8/23/2008
Msg: 5
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 12:34:16 AM
BlueSunShine, (what's a beautiful nick!)

I appreciate your comments... but why did you mention skeletons? I wasn't thinking about past. It was more about mentality. Even my daughter admitted that people here (read: this country) are acting differently compare to what our values are. Same is my experience about some men I've met: they are just too locked up and won't tell the truth. I don't want to "investigate" them. But I think that relationships can't be equal if one side is honest and open another is not.
 ~ Green Eyes ~
Joined: 8/23/2008
Msg: 6
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 1:09:10 AM
2hi-iq-4u.... thanks for dropping by, without you it could be just the "girls' talk". And thanks for your wise advice. Mmm... How to say it without sounding 'rude' (I still learning this 'art', OK?) -- but it seems like you are one of these "creative" people who are bringing unusual originality not just into their finances but into their relationships as well, right?

And again... here is this "gray area" I was talking about (or double standards): on one of the POF forum's you had replied to the OP who said " Can you imagine how a woman feels who thinks the world of you and wants to be your wife and you only want to live with her?" with the following: "I haven't met any women that delusional on POF, but I keep trying."

But at the same time, on your profile you are stating the following: "I am a polyamorous novice. Single, and looking for more than one."

So... how do you expect that a woman who feels that you are "the whole word for her" would share you with someone else? You wouldn't be "the whole" after that, right?

Isn't it a clear example of 'dual' personality?
 2hi-iq-4u
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 7
SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 1:11:02 AM
But it was a silly act, you are right, man (who called me goofy).


I didn't mean that you were goofy. I just meant that age was a silly example of lying. I was taught from a very young age that you never ask a woman her age, and then I learned that many men and women lie about age on a profile. There are so many other serious lies to account for that age pales in comparison. For instance "Are you married?" Lying to that question is unforgivable. I certainly wouldn't question a ladies integrity if she fudged a few years. It has to be one of the most acceptable lies on the planet. It's right up there with "Santa isn't going to bring you any toys if you don't behave"
 Stormwolf
Joined: 2/23/2009
Msg: 8
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 2:57:44 AM

there is a certain art in delivering the truth without compromising my integrity.


It seems like you have found a universal " key" to your own inquiry!
" Delivery" even when simply saying hello, is perhaps the most important
aspect of all forms of communication, be it friend, family or stranger.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 9
SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 4:57:31 AM
I have found, you can deliver the truth in a nice way, that doesn't make you feel schadenfreude while telling it. It gets the real job accomplished without insulting the other person.

typically, telling the truth artfully requires asking yourself, "how would I want to hear this?" before opening your mouth....and sometimes it also requires you to ask, "does it really help the other person to know this?"

some people decieve themselves, so they think they are telling me the truth.

in the end, tell the truth if you're asked. Don't burden everyone with your burdens, just to throw them off so they can't throw you off, first. You should be able to live comfortably with who you are, and thus not need to actively decieve.
 scorpiomover
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 10
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 5:19:55 AM

We all have our “secrets,” small and bigger ones, and of course, we are not going to put them out on our profiles for everyone’s view. But what about common standards, like the person’s age, for example? What if someone “looks younger” than his/her age and feels that telling the truth would throw him/her out of the pool? And when you meet this person they tell you “it wasn’t important”, but it was for you?
It depends. If you didn't find out until you got to know the person, and you found that you really did think that he was a really great person for you, but was outside your age range, would you still give it a go?

What if you didn't know that the person was in your ideal age range until you decided that they were completely unsuitable, would you still reject them?

Because we live in a society that so often makes judgements about them based on their age, that simply aren't true about those people, we often subconsciously pre-judge people based on their age, when really those judgments are not reasonable.

If this person isn’t completely honest from the beginning – does it matter to you?
No. No-one tells you the whole truth, about anything. I'd be far more worried if they lied to me about something that would violate my personal values, like if they already had a boyfriend or not.

Would you still trust this person and continue building your relationships, hoping that he/she will “do better” in future?
If I am worried about them doing "better", then I've pre-judged them that they must tell the truth all the time, and keep me informed about everything, and that's just not realistic, because we all forget to tell people about some things that might affect them. We're human. We make mistakes.

And what about these “double standards” – when people allow themselves act in certain way (like state he’s divorced when he’s just separated) but wouldn’t accept anything like this from the opposite party?
Again, it depends. If our values would refuse us to date anyone who is separated, even if we personally know that they will never get back with that person again, then it's not a double standard. But if our reasons for wanting to not date separated people are simply in case they go back to their spouse, then we are acting in our self-interest, and then we are acting with bias.

I’ve read that the Bible says, “You’re not supposed to lie, but you don’t have to tell everything.” And there is another quote which says that "only a fool speaks his whole mind…"

So… Shall we tell the truth or not?
I was told that the Biblical Law about being honest, does not apply when it would do no benefit, and only cause harm, such as telling your wife that she looks fat in that dress, when she's going to wear it no matter what, and all that would happen is that you've started an argument, with no benefit. So if there is an advantage to both parties, to be honest, such as a woman who is under the age of consent who meets a man over the age of consent and both are interested in beginning the relationship with sex, then it would be only prudent to do so, because if he gets caught, he'll go to jail, and she'll be upset that her boyfriend is in jail. Even if he doesn't get caught out, when he finds out that she's under age, he'll dump her, because she almost ruined his life, and then how will she feel?

Just think about how many young women who will only date men their age, who date young man after young man, who is just interested in sex, and she ends up feeling used, and doesn't even start knowing what a good relationship is, until she's much older.

Just think about how many young men who ended up in a great relationship with an older woman, because they didn't ask how old she was in the beginning.

Honesty is mostly useful. It's only not useful when really it doesn't make any difference to our values, and just screws us all up.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 11
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 6:21:26 AM
Everything is subjective and this question is going to be different for everybody. In the examples you cited, I would think that the person with the problem with the age thing is the one who thought everything was great with looks, personality, and suddenly they are unsuitable because? If you met them somewhere else, you would not ask their age, would it make a difference when you found out? But if it is for "you," then yes, I guess that omission is important.

I would never understand someone who is in a situation and won't deal with someone in the same situation, that is hypocrisy, not dishonesty.

My policy on the truth is that generally I tell it. I try to find a way to ensure that the truth is as innocuous as possible and I have the stones to tell it even when it may wind up hurting me. I am not so hellbent on the truth that I go wielding it willy nilly with no thought to the consequences either.

Truth also requires the ability to recognize the capacity for others to hear it. If you have a friend in a bad situation but they are still so in love they won't do anything, telling them what you see will not help them and may remove your ability to be there for that person. Timing can be everything just as evaluating whether there is even a point to telling the truth is crucial, i.e. whether the person will listen.
 El_Mariachi
Joined: 4/21/2007
Msg: 12
SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 8:10:42 AM
There's a difference between lying and holding something back to avoid hurting someone.

That's where I draw the line. When I do have something to tell, it's true. If it will hurt MORE than help, I keep it to myself or try to find a way to get the info to whoever needs it. Probably a lot of hoops to jump through, but worthwhile.
 ~ Green Eyes ~
Joined: 8/23/2008
Msg: 13
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 8:56:16 AM

I can allude to dozens of examples of how people who claim to be honest, lie.

So, you claim that
lies aren't important. Unless you have been convicted of a felony, lies don't mean much.


How interesting. I guess it's just a matter of personal choice or one of those questions we just can't answer. For me it just much more difficult to be in peace with my inner "i" if I have to hold on truth and be quiet for someone's sake.

Many years ago, my husband was diagnosed with cancer. At that time a place the doctor's wouldn't tell the patients about it, believing that truth would break their will and ability to fight for their lives. But they did tell the spouse about it. And then I had to face the horrible situation, "Shall I tell the truth?"

My then only 30-year old husband looked straight into my eyes and asked, "What the doctor told you? Tell me the truth. I know you never lie." And I couldn't. I procrastinated. I said, "It's very-very serious, but we'll make it out from this hospital. Please believe me."

He passed away just in a few days... and I found out that a second house he bought on OUR money he actually put on his lover name, and I had no idea he was in relationships with someone else. So... if I would not care about his feelings and told the truth -- maybe at least he would think about our child and rather signed off this house for her?


A lie is a lie, no matter its purpose. It is simply a matter of deciding what kind of lies you can accept.


I just don't know what to say on that.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 14
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 9:35:52 AM
Msg 1 My belief is when it comes to reality there is no lie and truth, the only truth is our feelings at the moment. And how we percieve and interact that affects us.. Every moment we are evolving like the Earth shifting into different directions, because of our experiences. = we change all the time so we can not time lock what we have in mind about us or* our promises to other* .Example, I was attracted to a white collar job man now I am attracted to a grease monkey blue collar man. Am I telling a lie ?? No...Or I get high on shopping spending money like there is no tomorrow but not now before I let go of my one buck it squick...
The bottom line is I don't rely what a person said about themself/their profiles,their action will prove to me when I met them personally. I even gave the benefit of doubt about this Rich and Handsome( punchline line) in my profile...LOL

That quote in the bible > "Only a fool *speaks* his whole mind." I totally agree with that and my motto is " To see is to believe".... For actions speaks louder than words.

Keep rockin !!
 bucsgirl
Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 15
SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 9:53:52 AM
Truth/honesty does not exist in a vacuum. There also exists discretion and judgments about what the affect on the other person will be for telling the truth and is there any benefit.

People TELL the truth to hurt other people, it IS the truth but it serves no further purpose.

It's a very rare skill to be able to tell the truth with consideration for another person's feelings and in a way that causes the least amount of harm. Call it diplomacy, but if the other person is not being taken into consideration at all, then what would be a person's motive for telling the truth?

It's not always easy to tell someone the truth, but then adults either learn how to handle difficult situations or exist on a level of immaturity.
 19justice78
Joined: 7/23/2008
Msg: 16
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 10:09:41 AM
Well this is a very touchy subject. It's been my experience that those who want honesty really don't. Now there are all kinds of honesty, from age, to "I had sex with your sister but it didn't mean anything" LOL yea it's an extreme but every one has there own level of what truth they want to know. I've had good and bad experiences on this site from men lying by omission to others who tell me everything about their live which is way to much honesty. I believe in the best policy is I tell the truth about the stuff I think that matters, age, pictures, drama, (or lack of it), weight (of which really makes a big deal to me) drugs and alchohol. The rest just goes with getting to know someone. If a guy is to honest with me (tells me everything about his last girlfriend) well I just move on and feel sorry for next gal. LOL
 SASSYN89178
Joined: 2/19/2007
Msg: 17
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 10:17:21 AM
have caught several people in lies and when a guy said he wanted me to come meet him at his house but his profile says he only meets people at a coffee shop for first date, I questioned him about it. He got angry and snapped, "Well, can't I change my mind if I want?" My reply, "If you changed your mind, you should have changed your profile too to reflect that too" But he lied several other times in email and I caught him contradicting himself. I told him, "not interested" because I want nothing to do with someone who would lie from the start.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

First off, I would never meet a man who I didn't know at his house. But, that's me.
We all have our limitations for what we will accept from others.
This exchange was rather petty in my humble opinion.
You should have been more concerned for your safety, then whether or not he was telling a lie about where he preferred to meet women.
 ~ Green Eyes ~
Joined: 8/23/2008
Msg: 18
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 12:35:05 PM

you mean shall YOU tell the truth.please dont tar us with your brush


Happy Boy, are you saying that posting serious topics are strictly prohibited here?

Hmm. If so, then I am sorry. But you actually avoided to answer my question -- what is your credo regarding this topic?

Would you like to turn this thread around and make it "fun"? If honesty isn't what you want to discuss, let's flip the coin and talk about cheating.

I know people who think that cheating is fun. Many years ago one of my schoolmates told me how much fun he has cheating on girls. It was some kind of intellectual game for him to see what kind of tricks he could perform. Could you share some of your experience? Why to be honest knowing that others are not?

What would be the rules?
 cabrandon
Joined: 3/21/2009
Msg: 19
SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 2:29:38 PM
Good question.

We all know that nobody tells the truth. and we should keep it that way.
doesn't matter we should or not- even if we should, nobody will tell anyway.

if you do, you will have to be on POF for a long time, you know what i mean.
brndn
 c_deacon
Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 20
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 6/20/2009 3:20:17 PM
Discretion is the better part of valor, so one should be very careful how the truth is delivered and why.

I do not know of one person who is totally truthful about everything, to everyone, all the time. If that person truly did exist, they would not be working with anyone, not have family that talks to them, or supports them, and they would be living alone on some mountain top spewing their truth from afar.........

We are discreet with our children, our parents, family, friends, coworkers, and many strangers we meet each and every day. None of this means that our intent is to just lie about things, people, facts, situations, concepts, opinions, and the like, but it does mean that truth can be ambiguous as well as situational, depending on how we perceive it, and hand it out.

I so have little patience for those that think they tell the truth, when we all know that white lies, discretion, and situations, will determine how we state each and every fact as truth or not.

Black and white just does not exist all the time, when one uses tolerance and understanding of those situations that need to be handled in such a way, that gray is a much better form of the truth for all involved.

Just my opinion.......
 ~ Green Eyes ~
Joined: 8/23/2008
Msg: 21
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Posted: 6/21/2009 11:32:33 AM
kpmav9,

I think it would be great to give more details on your profile, and I am going to re-do mine also. It might not win in quantity of the men, but their 'quality' would be higher. If I was a man, reading your profile, I would think, "All right, we all have our plusses and minuses, our ups and downs. And I could definitely deal with those, and it would save my time on discovery of what is "hidden" inside of every identical profile I read on this web site."

But I am a female, and you know that our logic is very different. So... good luck to you!

I just spoke with my friend and she asked me how I was doing on POF and I said that there are not too many 'fishes' in my local pound, as I live in a very rural area. She said, “At least you’re out there, taking a risk. Me? I’m dating the ex-husband. Yep, every time either of us wants to go to dinner, or movies, or there’s a family event, or we just want to go out drinking, we always go together. It’s like the divorce never happened - except I don’t have to listen to him snore and fart."

I laughed. After talking with her I thought that I need to put this disclaimer on my profile, "I can't stand a man who wasn't trained not to fart when he is in the same room or car with me." But how would I say it more politele way? Any ideas?

 bootymon
Joined: 10/23/2006
Msg: 22
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Posted: 6/25/2009 8:35:14 AM
It is so much easier to be truthfull and not have to continue to lie. WHY HIDE THE TRUTH?
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 23
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:56:50 AM
The truth of an absolute is fairly easy to get at... age, height, marital status. But as soon as you move away from that you are getting into things that require perception to interpret.

There's no THE truth... there's A truth. In some situations, I have several truths that are all equally honest. I can deliver my truths in a way that will have them rolling on the floor laughing or reaching for a box of kleenex. Then too, there are some truths I am not going to reveal until we have a certain relationship, until there's some trust built and some interest garnered. In those cases, it is a bit like how I told something to my daughter over a period of 10 years: each time the story was told, it was a truth, but at an age appropriate level - as she got older, I added a few more details.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 24
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Posted: 7/4/2009 10:36:46 AM
If someone ask me what is " what is my strongest and weakest quality of character,I would answer" honesty "for both. * I did pay my price for being honest and with years, I 've learned that there is a certain art on delivering the truth without compromising my integrity. This" Art" is not easy to practice.


A person who doesn't know how to play the game,he /she is the *game*, for Life is a Game, if you tell to a man /anyone that you are honest, hmm,you become an open book ,they'll be asking every inner core about you, "what 's in your wallet " etc.?? and then you become a victim..
There are only two kind of people that lives on this earth the Con Artist and the Victim. Personally, I don't care if Iam a sinner that when I died I 'll be in Hell, for my words of bluff ---as long as the result is good for me .....Once I was in a casino with a girlfriend,she was playing 3 nickels slot machine and she losed all her money, she asked me if I have money I told her I have only 2$ and some coins I showed my wallet to her, but that was a lie for I have 60 bucks tuck inside my driving licence . If I was so honest,she'd take my 60 $ if she lose the money, we are both penniless and I don't think she'd pay me back... Actually, I don't care how truthful a person tells me about her/himself, for me to see is to believe ,I don't relay on a person words but his deed. Honesty is a word of honor for me , if I promise something consider it is done and I expect others to do the same with me....
 ~ Green Eyes ~
Joined: 8/23/2008
Msg: 25
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Posted: 7/6/2009 9:45:29 PM
I HEAR YOU, MAN...

It was a good 'survey' and now I see what the most people think and do. And I understand that in order 'to live among wolves' we must act like them.
 damassteel
Joined: 7/22/2009
Msg: 26
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 10/6/2009 5:41:54 PM
Yes we shall.
Liars are PROFOUNDLY dependent people. They depend on another's ignorance to maintain their warped reality. For liars, reality is their enemy. Dealing with reality directly is the only way to approach being successful in this life. Any who would obscure reality by lying are surely not on your side of things and must be put asside immediately when their lies are uncovered. I find though that one must be very careful in when and how one reveals certain things about one's self, especially accomplishments of an uncommon nature. I have found this hard to do without being pecieved as immodest. Often best to let others tell things of this nature. What I usually get is: "Why didn't you you tell me you did.....", some are are pleasantly surprised, others, almost resentful that information was withheld, almost as if I had been lying( but not quite).
 damassteel
Joined: 7/22/2009
Msg: 27
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SHALL WE TELL THE TRUTH?
Posted: 10/7/2009 9:03:54 AM
^^^ I hear you. We are not morally obliged to tell the truth in all circumstances. If a thief enters your home and asks where your hidden valueables are hidden, are you morally obliged to reveal that info? Of course not. Captured by enemies in combat, your orders compell you to be not forthcoming with any info more than you name rank and serial#. Or give the "right" answer.
 damassteel
Joined: 7/22/2009
Msg: 28
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Posted: 10/7/2009 12:38:57 PM
Some truth is relative, some is objective. I think for the sake of the argument here, we refer to the latter, as in; Do you have an STD or not?, Are you married or not? Are you the age you state or not? Are you looking for a LTR or a Fling?
Nothing relative about the truths implied in these essential questions as they assume a shared and objective reality that have real consquences for the parties involved if there is dishonesty; mostly I think because they're about "facts" not "opinions".
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