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 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 610
When should the woman offer to pay?Page 19 of 35    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35)
I think most of this type of discussion has to do with the entitlement attitude. IME, men are fine with treating so long as they aren't treated like/told it's expected they do. If it's appreciated regardless of outcome it's not a loss for them. Sure, there are some men who will call it a free meal in hindsight for a woman who just wasn't interested and had never met him before if he insists on it being dinner and drinks, and that's unfair.

Men who treat and expect something for it are wrong too (even if what you expect is a thank you or some form of appreciation). While it should be good to get it, it's wrong to expect it. Fine line, but it's there. Don't offer something to get something. It's along the same lines as the courtesy for others thing - don't hold doors for people expecting to be thanked, hold doors for people because it's something you like to do. If you don't enjoy it then why do it?

For the women who offer to split or contribute (or even pay) for the sake of appearances, shame on you. You're muddying the waters as well. If you offer to put money towards it (and if you were eating and drinking or consuming depending on where it is then you SHOULD be covering yourself logically), then back it up by adding to the bill and stop taking away points for it.
 sundress1
Joined: 7/7/2015
Msg: 611
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 8:51:10 AM
I agree with what WIP said.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 612
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 8:52:54 AM

Men who treat and expect something for it are wrong too (even if what you expect is a thank you or some form of appreciation). While it should be good to get it, it's wrong to expect it.


If I pay for a date/first meet and don't even get a thank you for paying, it will the last the last time we see each other. I'm looking for someone who has manners-not some entitled princess biatch who thinks I should feel honored to pay to be in her presence. How many women would be happy about not being thanked if she did something for a man?
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 613
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 8:54:41 AM

If I pay for a date/first meet and don't even get a thank you for paying, it will the last the last time we see each other. I'm looking for someone who has manners-not some entitled princess biatch who thinks I should feel honored to pay to be in her presence.

I don't think WIP meant thank you... it sounds like she meant more physical rewards. And why do you sound so angry? Have you been out with a lot of entitled princesses?
 Brisco414
Joined: 4/16/2015
Msg: 614
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 9:16:07 AM
I've had more than several dates with a really nice guy over the last couple of months. Usually it's dinner, movie and other activities, i.e, comedy club. I've offered to pay but he never lets me -- insists on paying every time. I graciously always thank him. Last weekend he accompanied me to a housewarming party for a friend of mine. It ended early and we took in movie. He still paid even though I offered to treat us both. I told him next time we go out, I'm paying.

I always offer to pay my share when out on a date.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 615
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 10:34:30 AM

If I pay for a date/first meet and don't even get a thank you for paying, it will the last the last time we see each other. I'm looking for someone who has manners-not some entitled princess biatch who thinks I should feel honored to pay to be in her presence. How many women would be happy about not being thanked if she did something for a man?


That happened to me once. A woman didn't offer to pay anything and didn't say thanks. It was obvious that there wasn't going to be another date before it reached that point. A few other women didn't offer to pay on the first date / meeting. But at least they did say thanks.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 616
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 10:47:27 AM

If I pay for a date/first meet and don't even get a thank you for paying, it will the last the last time we see each other. I'm looking for someone who has manners-not some entitled princess biatch who thinks I should feel honored to pay to be in her presence. How many women would be happy about not being thanked if she did something for a man?

OK that was a rant that had nothing to do with what I said. What I said was it's best to do things cause you want to, not for recognition. When you do things wanting to get something in return you end up pissed off, much like this post you responded with.

Personally I don't do things to get thanked I do things because I want to - it's on the other person how they respond to what I do. IMO doing things for appreciation is self serving. Someone could just as easily say they don't like a man who thinks he's gracing them with good deeds. If I am bothered because a man doesn't thank me for something I did, I need to look at my reasons for doing what I did and my sense of self for it bothering me.

If you're doing something for me in hopes that you get a certain thing back (no matter what it is), please don't bother doing it. Go do someone else a favor. That's a subtle form of manipulation.

I don't think WIP meant thank you... it sounds like she meant more physical rewards. And why do you sound so angry? Have you been out with a lot of entitled princesses?

I meant anything - definitely something physical but this covers thank yous as well. A person with manners should thank someone that did something for them out of appreciation - but it's not up to the person who did the thing to pull rank on the person's response if it's not what they expected - that would mean the person did it for the thank you.

Again, fine line.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 617
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 11:10:26 AM

I know I shouldn't bother, but...

Multiple times in these threads, I've said that I will happily treat my girlfriend out. I don't care if she ever pays when we go out, just as long as it's appreciated and doesn't just become an expectation.

Some random first date, that's not my girlfriend. There's no guarantee that I'm ever going to see this person again, or even get a phone call answered.

But if you want to blow money on a complete stranger that never talks to you again, go for it. Some of us have to work for a living, and first dates add up over time. Maybe if people weren't so disposable today, things might be different. But how many girls should I treat out to never see again? Out of the 2 of us, am I REALLY the only one who doesn't look at that as being completely stupid? If you're going to blow that money on someone who's never going to talk to you, put it to good use... donate it to a charity or something. It's better than buying some flake dinner.

So again.... Steady girlfriend = she don't have to pay for anything
Girl I don't even know = about 20 first and only dates before you ruined the chance of a free meal for you.

But also, something else I've explained before, none of this means that I won't treat someone I'm meeting for the first time. I've been out with girls, saw that it was obvious that it wasn't going anywhere, and I still paid for them. We hung out, BSed a little, and went our separate ways. The difference though, they weren't buried in their phone when I wasn't what they imagined me to be, they weren't already planning their next date, or talking about it. They didn't "have to go to the bathroom" and vanish, they were actually part of a conversation that while they didn't want to date me, they still enjoyed talking, because that's what people do. Funny what treating people like an actual person does to decisions they make on stuff like this.

But when you're obviously going to fall into a black hole on your way home from work and end up on some other planet, completely incapable of returning a text or answering a phone call and just saying that there was nothing there, and it gets pretty easy to see that coming after a few times, you all use the same exact lines, why do you deserve a free night out when you're going to do that? Would you pay for you? If we were out and some blonde walked past and I started blatantly obviously hitting on her, would you pay for me? What if you were the only one on your conversation? What if my uncle's, cousin's, neighbor's, brother's, 7th grade english teacher's plumber had a second job on that boardwalk and I can't be seen walking too close to a girl or else my father will find out and he'll be mad, even though I'm over 30 (yeah, nobody believes you that your parents are going to have a problem with your adult ass dating)... Would I be paid for that night? Yet these are always the same girls that when the check comes, they just completely ignore it. They're not going to have any part of paying for it.


R/T I hear you loud and clear. But if that is your concern why don't you just plan meets that are without much of a cost? Why put yourself though meetings that look like 1st dates?

Be a man! Invite her out for just a drink or a walk (isn't the ocean near you?). That way when she fades away and ignores you, you won't feel like you met the worlds biggest gold digger.

I can't feel sorry when a guy leads, is expected to lead, and leads himself into an uncomfortable situation. Have I had fades? Sure, we all do, but NO ONE got anything out of me that I had a problem with.

Just plan accordingly. Losing 5-10 bucks is a good amount to get someone out of your life that doesn't fit!

If you do the littlest possible effort and she agrees to see you again then you KNOW she REALLY is interested( unless she wants to extract from you on the 2nd date-hehehe).

@wip--Are you ever going to get out of being in progress? Some of us hate delays!;P
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 618
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History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 11:39:25 AM

Possible. But some women did pay for at least some portion of the date ( tip, dessert / beverage etc ) and we went out on another date.

It's actually More Often that when a gal offers to contribute, that it's a faux-offer. But responding with "No, that's okay -- you can get the tip / beers afterward," and she accepting that, that's cool.

Besides if a woman didn't want to go out on another date just because I accepted her offer, then we simply weren't a match.

Okay, there's that... But then again, if she was a seemingly financially independent gal, then why not ask her to split the bill when they throw out an offer -- or even when they ignore the bill? I do and have done the "just chip in" angle if I didn't ask to Take Her Out and she requests contributing. When I think there's a fat chance things will be going anywhere, and she ignores the bill, the most I'll do is the "just chip in" angle. Admittedly, it's out of fear of confrontation/issues -- which I think is an underlying reason for a lot of people.

I will also add that some women want to split the bill in order to "prove their financial independence" or they genuinely feel that splitting the bill is the right thing to do.

Yes, I've had that before. The way it's conveyed is very convincing, and you know they've expressed/shown interest during the date -- so it's not because they're lacking interest in ya, nor is it some "I'm just being polite" faux-offer. Yes, those are good.

I think most of this type of discussion has to do with the entitlement attitude.

Yes. But I think some of the debate is that some people Don't think they feel entitled, when they Actually Do. Feeling entitled to it doesn't mean a bomb-dropping "OMG" is felt if they don't get it. I feel entitled to get my mail on time. But if my Popular Science magazine comes in a day later that it 'should' have, I wouldn't flip out or really notice. But I am still entitled to getting it on time.

If a guy asks to Take Her Out, and she accepts -- which is only one way dates formulate -- then yeah, he Is entitled to pay. But the issue comes with a gal feeling entitled to be paid-for, with some appreciation or not, because it's merely a date -- and a guy's "supposed" to do that. Some gals may say "Oh, I bring money. With dates, ya never know what you're going to get, so I am ready to pay and will pay if he wants me to contribute. It'll be the last time I see him, though." Well, that's still feeling Entitled to it (unless she truly believes she isn't Deserving of it, but admittedly knows that's just how She is).

Men who treat and expect something for it are wrong too (even if what you expect is a thank you or some form of appreciation)

I can understand sex or a makeout session in the backseat being wrong to expect. And I agree with you 100% if he Asked To Take Her Out. But if he didn't, they shouldn't feel Entitled. I agree with you there only in cases where He Is Entitled to financially support her on the date.

While it should be good to get it, it's wrong to expect it. Fine line, but it's there. Don't offer something to get something.

Yeah, but a guy's not going to pay for a dinner for a goal to get a Thank You, though -- as if he's trying to win a contest of Thank Yous. :) It's wrong to Expect it when it's something he's Entitled to do. When it's not something he's Entitled to do -- he should Expect a thank-you.

It's along the same lines as the courtesy for others thing - don't hold doors for people expecting to be thanked, hold doors for people because it's something you like to do. If you don't enjoy it then why do it?

Because holding a door is extremely minor, and one would be real petty to expect thank-yous for that. Especially since many people won't care much anyway. If two super-rich people are going out to Applebees, and one person (guy or girl) gets the bill, there'd be about the same level of appreciation as holding the door open for someone which takes virtually no effort. Now, someone stopping by the side of the road to help them with their car -- yes, that Definitely Would!
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 619
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 11:42:25 AM
Everyone says thank you or smiles for holding a door from what I see.
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 620
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 11:43:27 AM


It's actually More Often that when a gal offers to contribute, that it's a faux-offer.


Her hand moves towards her purse in slow motion. Like bullet time in the Matrix.

She sees me watching her hand, and moves her hand even slower.

I feel this sudden obligation weighing heavily on my shoulders.

No, no, no....I've got this!
 Whatsamatterbaby
Joined: 5/6/2015
Msg: 621
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 11:53:33 AM
I used to wonder if some men in a dating situation might feel emasculated when I paid. These forums have taught me better: Evidently if you don't pay, you're to feel indebted. What a funny little game this is.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 622
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 1:04:50 PM

I used to wonder if some men in a dating situation might feel emasculated when I paid. These forums have taught me better: Evidently if you don't pay, you're to feel indebted. What a funny little game this is.


It is funny. Living in Northwestern Ontario, most people pay for themselves and there isn't an issue. I like that people are laid back about dating here. I find that anyone looking for money usually reveals their intentions before the bill is even brought. You really have no idea what kind of money a person has on a first date though. I know a guy that moved here from Alberta, lives with a friend, rides his bike everywhere and made over a million dollars by investing in BitCoin. Once my Italian friend found out he paid for all 20 people to have dinner at my birthday, she chatted him up pretty quick.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 623
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 1:08:26 PM

It's actually More Often that when a gal offers to contribute, that it's a faux-offer.


Probably depends on age. Perhaps geography as well. Younger women ( in general ) are more likely to be willing to split the bill.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 624
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 1:42:04 PM

Everyone says thank you or smiles for holding a door from what I see.

Usually yes. However when someone doesn't say thank you or acknowledge - and the person holding the door flips out and says "that's it I'm done holding doors for people.." that's ridiculous. While it's polite to say thank you, holding the door expecting one is almost like trying to get credit for it....almost...

I always offer to contribute because...hello...I was there partaking in the consuming of goods. Do I pay a lot of times to avoid any sort of obligation I might be subject to if I don't contribute? Yep, there's that too. Each person does what they feel they need to to make the dynamic what it is.
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 625
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 3:00:24 PM

It's actually More Often that when a gal offers to contribute, that it's a faux-offer.


According to these forums, it’s actually more often that when a guy offers to treat, it’s a faux-offer, designed to determine who will offer to contribute and who is a dinner digger. So now you’re saying the “gals” offer “faux-offers,” anyway, so I guess that little game is a pointless bust.

Much wiser to simply inform your date BEFORE the date, that you intend to go dutch. Why waste time with childish, useless games?
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 626
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 3:05:16 PM
Much wiser to simply inform your date BEFORE the date, that you intend to go dutch. Why waste time with childish, useless games?
---------------------
It's not a useless game. It's a way of finding out whether or someone has manners or is socially clueless. Finding that out is worth paying for.
 Whatsamatterbaby
Joined: 5/6/2015
Msg: 627
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 3:53:48 PM

I went on a first meet the weekend, he did the travelling and I paid for lunch.
If he did happen to lose his testis I would have helped him locate them :)


Haha! Excellent attitude :)
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 628
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 4:27:54 PM

It is funny. Living in Northwestern Ontario, most people pay for themselves and there isn't an issue. I like that people are laid back about dating here. I find that anyone looking for money usually reveals their intentions before the bill is even brought. You really have no idea what kind of money a person has on a first date though. I know a guy that moved here from Alberta, lives with a friend, rides his bike everywhere and made over a million dollars by investing in BitCoin. Once my Italian friend found out he paid for all 20 people to have dinner at my birthday, she chatted him up pretty quick.



I am starting to think some Canadian guys have better game and avoid developing acute cases of doormat syndrome at an early age. But again, if a gal on a 1st meet demands some elaborate ritual, that is a good cue to call it off. But apparently, many guys don't, then they complain. Or they play games when gal does offer.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 629
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 4:28:01 PM

@wip--Are you ever going to get out of being in progress? Some of us hate delays!;P

A good woman never stops improving. Once the progress ends, life is over, no? :))
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 630
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/18/2015 4:34:46 PM

According to these forums, it’s actually more often that when a guy offers to treat, it’s a faux-offer, designed to determine who will offer to contribute and who is a dinner digger.

No, sorry, that's not it. Guys asking to Take A Girl Out does not at all tend to be a faux-offer, I don't know where you're getting that from. Nor is him aloud stating at the table that he's got the whole check.

But even if it were a trend (which it's not) that most guys fake-offer to pay the bill, it doesn't nix the concept that many women do fake-offering to pay her share of the bill. When a guy pays the bill to financially support her outing, he tends to want some gratitude expressed in some way. That's not a childish game. Him saying it aloud at the table is sort of a fishing line for some gratitude, sure. If he gets butt-hurt because she doesn't show any gratitude and acts like the same as if "yeah, owed her one" -- it doesn't mean his offer to pay it was a fake-offer. Just her being passively rude. Sure, her being so "counts against her" -- but that's not mean he was making a faux-offer to pay the bill.

Much wiser to simply inform your date BEFORE the date, that you intend to go dutch. Why waste time with childish, useless games?

It's much wiser to not play baby-games of faux-offers to contribute when you don't wish to, either. And if a gal feels entitled to be financially supported on dates for the sake of even going out on a date with a guy, she should inform her date BEFORE the date. Why waste time with childish, useless games, right?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 631
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 2:38:00 PM

It's much wiser to not play baby-games of faux-offers to contribute when you don't wish to, either. And if a gal feels entitled to be financially supported on dates for the sake of even going out on a date with a guy, she should inform her date BEFORE the date. Why waste time with childish, useless games, right?

Wrong. Nice try, but the ones complaining are the ones who need to change what's not working. Women aren't complaining in this conversation for the most part, but men are. So it's on the men who wish to avoid being put in that position to let women know early on so they don't have to deal with it anymore.
 BLonde^J^AngeL
Joined: 6/16/2015
Msg: 632
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 2:52:16 PM

According to these forums, it’s actually more often that when a guy offers to treat, it’s a faux-offer, designed to determine who will offer to contribute and who is a dinner digger. So now you’re saying the “gals” offer “faux-offers,” anyway, so I guess that little game is a pointless bust.

Much wiser to simply inform your date BEFORE the date, that you intend to go dutch. Why waste time with childish, useless games?

Why? Bec. some men, if they think they r gonna get laid, have no issue w/ paying. I'm starting to think all this Dutch is about a-not being sexually attracted OR b-an expectation of sex.

For some/many men, if they are sexually attracted & it seems like she wants sex, the cash flows...
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 633
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 4:51:44 PM

It's not a useless game. It's a way of finding out whether or someone has manners or is socially clueless. Finding that out is worth paying for.


There you go again.

If you ask a woman out, why wouldn’t she think you’re treating her? I go “dutch” with friends, or we take turns treating. I don’t need to "date" a “friend”.

And anyway that makes no sense. You pay even though you don’t want to (GAME) but it’s worth it because now you’ll do a fade out (GAME) because she failed your test (GAME).

I’d laugh in your face. In fact I am right now.


It's much wiser to not play baby-games of faux-offers to contribute when you don't wish to, either.


I wouldn’t and didn’t claim to.


And if a gal feels entitled to be financially supported on dates for the sake of even going out on a date with a guy, she should inform her date BEFORE the date. Why waste time with childish, useless games, right?


I’ll ask you the same: If you ask a woman out, why wouldn’t she think you’re treating her? SMH

“Financially supported” on dates?? Whoo boy I’m laughing at you, too.


Wrong. Nice try, but the ones complaining are the ones who need to change what's not working. Women aren't complaining in this conversation for the most part, but men are. So it's on the men who wish to avoid being put in that position to let women know early on so they don't have to deal with it anymore.


Exactly.

I wonder what the problem is….why do you suppose these guys don’t want to put the dutch disclaimer on their profiles, or simply inform the women first?? Yet another GAME. Then they cry about women!


For some/many men, if they are sexually attracted & it seems like she wants sex, the cash flows...


Oh I thought it might have something to do with getting rejected as cheapskates.

I only date IRL so attraction is already there before his invitation. OLD sucks.
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 634
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 5:13:06 PM
I think that agreeing to split the bill on a first meet is the way to go if you insist on going for a meal, which I would not do.. That way the woman does not feel obligated and to someone she may not wish to see again and he may not either. If he asks for a further date and she agrees, he should pay. She can reciprocate at another time if it goes further. If the guy insists on picking up the whole tab at a first meet then I would graciously accept and order something simple and cheap. I have been fortunate in meeting a couple of guys who wanted to pay for whatever I wished to order and were just generous people and gentlemen.

On the other hand a guy too lousy to offer a second cup of coffee if we meet for that and are getting on, I would not be impressed and probably pass on seeing him again.
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