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 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 635
When should the woman offer to pay?Page 20 of 35    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35)

I’ll ask you the same: If you ask a woman out, why wouldn’t she think you’re treating her?


Not everybody ( including some women ) follows the "you ask you pay" theory. Whenever a woman asked me out, I didn't assume or think that they offer to would pay the entire bill because of that reason. Most of them didn't. If the person that did the asking was the "host" and arranged the details of the date, then I might agree. But that's not often the case in my dates.


Wrong. Nice try, but the ones complaining are the ones who need to change what's not working. Women aren't complaining in this conversation for the most part, but men are. So it's on the men who wish to avoid being put in that position to let women know early on so they don't have to deal with it anymore.


I think he has a valid point. I have seen plenty of women on POF complain about men wanting to go Dutch on pages. Perhaps not as much on this thread. Didn't read all 30+ pages. But on other threads about this topic that were eventually deleted because it turned into nasty name calling.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 636
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 7:45:06 PM

On the other hand a guy too lousy to offer a second cup of coffee if we meet for that and are getting on, I would not be impressed and probably pass on seeing him again.


Would you offer him a second cup of coffee? It's pretty normal here for women to buy coffee for men sometimes. It's happened to me quite a few times when meeting someone.
 Whatsamatterbaby
Joined: 5/6/2015
Msg: 637
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 7:45:34 PM

On the other hand a guy too lousy to offer a second cup of coffee if we meet for that and are getting on, I would not be impressed and probably pass on seeing him again.


Please, please, please: If you want a second cup of coffee, buy yourself a second cup of coffee. Caffeine is a drug for goodness sakes. From what I've seen with severely disenfranchised women, getting men to pay for their drugs can be a slippery slope :(
 NJgirl116
Joined: 7/3/2015
Msg: 638
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 7:51:18 PM
I was on a date Sunday. He bought one round of drinks. We finished them. Now we're sitting in front of 2 empty glasses. The bartender asked him if he wanted another drink. He said no. Neither of them asked me anything. I took out my wallet and asked the bartender for a 2nd drink. So my date said, oh I got this! I didn't care who paid, I wanted another drink.
 south_city
Joined: 10/12/2013
Msg: 639
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 8:07:22 PM
Typos on my previous post...

Not everybody ( including some women ) follows the "you ask you pay" theory. Whenever a woman asked me out, I didn't assume or think that they would offer to pay the entire bill because of that reason. Most of them didn't. If the person that did the asking was the "host" and arranged the details of the date, then I might agree that person should pay. But that's not often the case in my dates.

I think he has a valid point. I have seen plenty of women on POF complain about men wanting to go Dutch on dates Perhaps not as much on this thread. I didn't read all 30+ pages. But on other threads about this topic that were eventually deleted because it turned into nasty name calling.
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 640
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History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 8:32:59 PM

Not everybody ( including some women ) follows the "you ask you pay" theory. Whenever a woman asked me out, I didn't assume or think that they offer to would pay the entire bill because of that reason. Most of them didn't. If the person that did the asking was the "host" and arranged the details of the date, then I might agree. But that's not often the case in my dates.


I just assumed I was paying. But I made sure that the meeting was "staged" enough so the bill could never reach a number that I would cringe.

I also found it better to end a good meeting early than change venues( unless it was to a home of course). I didn't want to be a victim of the "I thought everything was great" and never hear a word dynamic. Letting time to absorb everything afterwards isn't a bad thing.
 LetitiaLeGrande
Joined: 3/22/2015
Msg: 641
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History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 8:45:00 PM
Ah you are of a different generation!!!. However I have offered to buy my second cup and his if he has bought the first round.
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 642
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 8:57:39 PM
I think that agreeing to split the bill on a first meet is the way to go
------------------
I think winging it is the best way to go. That separates the wheat from the chaff when it comes to manners and etiquette. If a person cannot manage to deal with a simple meal without angst, the person is clueless.

---------------
if you insist on going for a meal, which I would not do..
---------------
I never _insisted_ on dinner, but I was a bit skeptical of anyone who was opposed to that. I wasn't in a hurry to meet anyone who was already planning for a bad outcome.

--------------
That way the woman does not feel obligated and to someone she may not wish to see again and he may not either. If he asks for a further date and she agrees, he should pay.
-------------
In my opinion, simply offering to pay, (and being prepared for any answer), regardless, is the way someone with good manners would handle it. If either person can't cover the entire bill, it's too expensive for at least one person.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 643
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History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/21/2015 10:36:52 PM

Nice try, but the ones complaining are the ones who need to change what's not working.

So if a gal starts a thread saying that the last couple dates she went on, the guy wouldn't pay (or begrudgingly paid) for her -- we should tell Her to announce that she wants the guy to pay Before the date, then, right? [Hey, there's much crazier things that people have run into and question about]

This isn't about giving someone tips on trying something different. And plus, you're not going to recommend a gal posting on her profile or announcing it beforehand to guy(s) that she wants them to pay for her bill if/when going out beforehand -- even if she's disappointed that guys aren't doing that (or 'enough').

My point was if anyone's going to do any Announcements -- it'd be the person feeling Entitled & Expecting to be financially supported on a date when the date did Not ask to TAKE them out. The ball's in their court on that. If they demand/expect to be paid for, when the other did not say they were Taking Them Out, the burden's on them to let the other person know.

By default, if one never asked to Take the Other Out -- then it could go either way in that person's mind. Want to guarantee the guy will fully pay for everything you consume/do on the get-together, without throwing a hissy-fit if he doesn't? Get on the same page in how you see it, that he's Taking you out, not just mutually agreeing to go out on a date together. No assumptive baby-games. Otherwise, no room to complain.

I’ll ask you the same: If you ask a woman out, why wouldn’t she think you’re treating her? SMH

Ahhh, good question. If I'm asking to Take a woman out -- she should, and I should. There's a difference between asking/saying to Take someone out, and asking to go out. Many times women a guy just met or exchanged # with, will be chatting with him and throw out the idea of getting together at such-and-such place or nowhere specific but on Thurs evening before she leaves for an extended weekend. Why wouldn't he think she's not treating him? Because she didn't ask to Take him out, that's why.

Let's just call a spade a spade. The argument is not about a guy asking to Take a girl out. Or even if she brings up the notion after initial interest between them when getting together is pretty much a given. It's that he's the guy, he should pay for her bill because she's the gal. Along with this line of thinking -- the only time how it unfolded would be any different is if SHE explicitly asked to Take Him Out. Otherwise, if he is to have a date with her, regardless of how it unfolded -- it's Expected that he's paying her way, and she's Entitled to it because she didn't say she wanted to Take Him Out.

I obviously don't agree with that assumption. IMO, the guy's not obliged if he didn't ask to take her out -- but even in that case, it would be a good idea that rolled in doing so if they seemed to hit off decently well.


“Financially supported” on dates??

Yeah -- he would be supporting her by paying for every cost incurred upon her. Ya know, taking care of her. Supporting her. Only in the financial sense in the date. :)
 BLonde^J^AngeL
Joined: 6/16/2015
Msg: 644
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 2:23:37 AM

If you ask a woman out, why wouldn’t she think you’re treating her? I go “dutch” with friends, or we take turns treating. I don’t need to "date" a “friend”.

And anyway that makes no sense. You pay even though you don’t want to (GAME) but it’s worth it because now you’ll do a fade out (GAME) because she failed your test (GAME).

I’d laugh in your face. In fact I am right now.


It's much wiser to not play baby-games of faux-offers to contribute when you don't wish to, either.


I wouldn’t and didn’t claim to.


And if a gal feels entitled to be financially supported on dates for the sake of even going out on a date with a guy, she should inform her date BEFORE the date. Why waste time with childish, useless games, right?


I’ll ask you the same: If you ask a woman out, why wouldn’t she think you’re treating her? SMH

“Financially supported” on dates?? Whoo boy I’m laughing at you, too.


Wrong. Nice try, but the ones complaining are the ones who need to change what's not working. Women aren't complaining in this conversation for the most part, but men are. So it's on the men who wish to avoid being put in that position to let women know early on so they don't have to deal with it anymore.


Exactly.

I wonder what the problem is….why do you suppose these guys don’t want to put the dutch disclaimer on their profiles, or simply inform the women first?? Yet another GAME. Then they cry about women!


For some/many men, if they are sexually attracted & it seems like she wants sex, the cash flows...


Oh I thought it might have something to do with getting rejected as cheapskates.
I only date IRL so attraction is already there before his invitation. OLD sucks.


Sunshine Girl hits the nail on the head once again!

IF I couldn't afford to shop at Neiman Marcus, I wouldn't go there, I think some of the "Dutch Men" have "Walmart Wallets" but are not enjoying the merchandise ;0P (bitter they cannot afford the goods in Neiman Marcus)

Financially supported on dates? Wow, is he taking me to a car dealership, or a yacht show, or real estate shopping, or Tiffany's?

Some men think they re-invented the wheel, but the truth is a cheapskate is a cheapskate & changing semantics doesn't change it.

Google "Poverty Complex" or "Poverty Mentality"...
 MaleFeasance
Joined: 3/13/2015
Msg: 645
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 2:35:45 AM
And anyway that makes no sense. You pay even though you don’t want to (GAME) but it’s worth it because now you’ll do a fade out (GAME) because she failed your test (GAME).
--------------
It does, since I can afford it.

---------------
I’d laugh in your face. In fact I am right now.

It's much wiser to not play baby-games of faux-offers to contribute when you don't wish to, either.
----------------
You're just a bitter, old woman with no class or manners.
 Eternitygracesme
Joined: 5/18/2015
Msg: 646
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 3:36:42 AM

Now if you go dutch, you'd be doing a home cooked meal for $10 vs $15 to go out, in that case, for equal contribution of money, he'd owe treating in full around every 6 times going out.


I was going to respond constructively to this, until read this:


OR instead of being as complicated as this, we can all be adults. NOBODY OWES YOU DINNER!!!!!!!!!!!!


NOBODY OWES YOU A REJECTION NOTICE, EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 Ouija2025
Joined: 6/11/2014
Msg: 647
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 5:44:43 AM
I don't know many people who can make a home cooked meal for 2 for $10.00
Simply don't ask a woman to have the first meeting as a meal - be prepared to spring for the java. The walmart wallet line is
a totes keeper!!!!
honest, the only things some people have in their wallet must be moths and an expired condom. It isn't the despair it is the hope
 JoeBnD
Joined: 3/23/2012
Msg: 648
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 5:57:13 AM

This is not down to not being financial independent or being able to afford it or not
Or that she expects it or attitude or anything

It's not even something some can always put as to reason for it

It's just a complete turn off for some:)


Isn't this (in bold) an attitude???? It sure appears to be.
Attitude - a settled way of thinking or feeling about someone or something, typically one that is reflected in a person's behavior.

I am not at all attracted to overweight (fat, bbw, curvy, et al) women (or entitled princesses, for that matter). That is an attitude that I have. I know that they may be wonderful people (not the entitled princesses), but that doesn't mean I will be attracted or be able to get turned on sexually. It is an attitude that I actually did try to change once or twice, to no avail - I won't be trying any more.
 Maleman999
Joined: 2/14/2010
Msg: 649
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 8:30:22 AM

I don't know many people who can make a home cooked meal for 2 for $10.00


I can do it for less that that. It's called K.D. A couple of boxes is less that $2.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 650
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 8:47:35 AM

I never _insisted_ on dinner, but I was a bit skeptical of anyone who was opposed to that. I wasn't in a hurry to meet anyone who was already planning for a bad outcome.

Someone who is aware that attraction should be established before spending 2-4 hours and over $10 and opts to do a shorter meet so as not to rope both of you into a long drawn out situation is expecting a bad outcome? How so? Expecting a good outcome with no idea what's going to happen is OK though? How about being open to either outcome with a reasonable first meet?

So if a gal starts a thread saying that the last couple dates she went on, the guy wouldn't pay (or begrudgingly paid) for her -- we should tell Her to announce that she wants the guy to pay Before the date, then, right? [Hey, there's much crazier things that people have run into and question about]

I expect the person complaining about something to be the one open to changing his or her strategy - so yes of course I would tell her to be proactive about what she doesn't want. No one HAS to date. Sorry...it's not a requirement to live or exist in society.

This isn't about giving someone tips on trying something different. And plus, you're not going to recommend a gal posting on her profile or announcing it beforehand to guy(s) that she wants them to pay for her bill if/when going out beforehand -- even if she's disappointed that guys aren't doing that (or 'enough').

You have no idea what I'm not going to do. Why would I NOT advise her to do the same if this is her complaint? I'm not biased to gender - I am, however biased to common sense.

My point was if anyone's going to do any Announcements -- it'd be the person feeling Entitled & Expecting to be financially supported on a date when the date did Not ask to TAKE them out. The ball's in their court on that. If they demand/expect to be paid for, when the other did not say they were Taking Them Out, the burden's on them to let the other person know.

I don't care how it's worded unless a guy says "I want to treat you to XYZ" no woman should assume it's not on her to contribute.

By default, if one never asked to Take the Other Out -- then it could go either way in that person's mind.

Yes so both should expect to cover their participation.

Want to guarantee the guy will fully pay for everything you consume/do on the get-together, without throwing a hissy-fit if he doesn't? Get on the same page in how you see it, that he's Taking you out, not just mutually agreeing to go out on a date together. No assumptive baby-games. Otherwise, no room to complain.

I feel a guy insisting on paying puts me in a place where it can be assumed I'm obligated to reciprocate somehow, so I'd rather not unless someone wants to fight me over it. I'd also eat Ramen noodles facing a wall by myself before I'd go on dates where I'm not into the guy and he picks up the tab, no matter what's on the menu. Yes, for women who insist on being paid for they should make sure the offer is clear to what their expectations are - and men who refuse to pick up the tab should clarify their offer.
 Kissfromarose77
Joined: 4/13/2015
Msg: 651
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 11:26:54 AM

Sunshine Girl hits the nail on the head once again!

IF I couldn't afford to shop at Neiman Marcus, I wouldn't go there, I think some of the "Dutch Men" have "Walmart Wallets" but are not enjoying the merchandise ;0P (bitter they cannot afford the goods in Neiman Marcus)

Financially supported on dates? Wow, is he taking me to a car dealership, or a yacht show, or real estate shopping, or Tiffany's?

Some men think they re-invented the wheel, but the truth is a cheapskate is a cheapskate & changing semantics doesn't change it.

Google "Poverty Complex" or "Poverty Mentality"...


It's not about being able to afford to treat a woman to dinner, it's about finding a woman that doesn't want a man just for his money. I can afford to treat a woman to dinner, but I won't because I want to find a woman likes me for me- not for what I can buy her. I don't want a woman who will leave me if I get laid off from my job or the economy crashes. The women lambasting men who won't treat women to dinner dates are the same women who wouldn't treat a man to a dinner date themselves. Using the man pays for the first date rule it's very possible that a woman could use a man for no other reason than to buy her dinner and then dump him after the first date and do the same thing to the next man she dates.

You can call me a cheapskate or call me whatever you like. All I can say is something they taught us in kindergarten- "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."
 adventurejoe70
Joined: 3/1/2013
Msg: 652
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 11:36:26 AM

Someone who is aware that attraction should be established before spending 2-4 hours and over $10 and opts to do a shorter meet so as not to rope both of you into a long drawn out situation is expecting a bad outcome? How so? Expecting a good outcome with no idea what's going to happen is OK though? How about being open to either outcome with a reasonable first meet?


LOL- agreed. Apparently people like to spend more money and time when/where NO attraction exists.
 BLonde^J^AngeL
Joined: 6/16/2015
Msg: 653
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 11:46:21 AM

It's not about being able to afford to treat a woman to dinner, it's about finding a woman that doesn't want a man just for his money. I can afford to treat a woman to dinner, but I won't because I want to find a woman likes me for me- not for what I can buy her. I don't want a woman who will leave me if I get laid off from my job or the economy crashes. The women lambasting men who won't treat women to dinner dates are the same women who wouldn't treat a man to a dinner date themselves. Using the man pays for the first date rule it's very possible that a woman could use a man for no other reason than to buy her dinner and then dump him after the first date and do the same thing to the next man she dates.

You can call me a cheapskate or call me whatever you like. All I can say is something they taught us in kindergarten- "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."


YOU have very valid points!

don't take this as an attack, I'm just gonna give u a spin on things...

IF you have had the UNFORTUNATE experience of women who used u, u need to fix ur picker.

As far as a woman not leaving u, there r no guarantees about anyone leaving anyone 4 any # of reasons :0(

A woman who uses men 4 dinner is not nice, so get a chain restaurant thing w/ a coupon...

AND:

very possible that a man could use a woman for no other reason than SEX and then dump her after the first date and do the same thing to the next woman he dates.

I do hope u find the woman who is ur match!
 clooneystutor
Joined: 3/8/2015
Msg: 654
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 11:54:37 AM


I don't want a woman who will leave me if I get laid off from my job


Before my 3rd marriage...(damn), we went to a marriage counselor.

He asked what my greatest concern was?

I told him that I needed to know that she'll stick with me if I lose my job.

She assured me she would and I never did lose that job.

I don't think most women are going to tell you they'd leave if you lost your job, and I'm sure most men won't tell a woman they'd leave her if she gained 50 lbs.

You can avoid risk if you adopt a chaste lifestyle. Heck, you might even grow to live as long as Ernest Borgnine!
 SunshineGirl__
Joined: 10/7/2014
Msg: 655
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 2:38:06 PM

I don't want a woman who will leave me if I get laid off from my job


Going dutch dinner with a woman won’t ensure that she won’t leave you if you lose your job. There are no guarantees of anything in life (except death and taxes).


It's not about being able to afford to treat a woman to dinner, it's about finding a woman that doesn't want a man just for his money


Right. You want a compatible woman, and you think if she agrees to go dutch, she will be compatible with you. Letting women know BEFORE the date that you intend to make it a dutch date, you weed out the so-called “entitled princesses” who are so despised on the forums.

It’s a win all the way around; I don’t understand the reluctance to simply be honest and upfront with women! Or why no one will answer the question.

Me:
And anyway that makes no sense. You pay even though you don’t want to (GAME) but it’s worth it because now you’ll do a fade out (GAME) because she failed your test (GAME).


You:
It does, since I can afford it.


Oh. Right. Well I can see how your game playing method could be advantageous to you; you can pretend YOU are doing the rejecting, when she evilly doesn’t offer to pay for a date YOU invited her on.


You're just a bitter, old woman with no class or manners.


Right….and admitting to playing games with women because you can “afford it” is real classy. :/

That’s NOT why men treat women on dates, btw. Broke azzes are the ones making it about money.

And…you’re just projecting, sweet thang. I have nothing to be bitter about. I’m not the one playing games and wasting money on dates while pretending it’s some convoluted selection process, judging a woman’s entire character on whether or not she pays for the date YOU invited her on.

*still laughing*


honest, the only things some people have in their wallet must be moths and an expired condom.


And we all better want to fvck their broke azzes AND pay our own way on “dates” or we are Entitled Princesses! etc. etc. blah blah blah….
 CrookCatcher
Joined: 7/14/2014
Msg: 656
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 2:48:25 PM

but I won't because I want to find a woman likes me for me- not for what I can buy her.


Jezzus .....want some cheese with this whine?


I don't want a woman who will leave me if I get laid off from my job or the economy crashes.


I think you're looking for mommy reassurance that things will be ok.


The women lambasting men who won't treat women to dinner dates are the same women who wouldn't treat a man to a dinner date themselves


Oh bullshyt....


You can call me a cheapskate or call me whatever you like. All I can say is something they taught us in kindergarten- "sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."


Just turn in your man card.....that's so pathetic it's funny.
 Eternitygracesme
Joined: 5/18/2015
Msg: 657
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 2:55:36 PM

I don't want a woman who will leave me if I get laid off from my job or the economy crashes.


You'll never be in control of what another does. You shouldn't go into relationships thinking you have ownership over their offered commitment; would you want somebody to do that to you?

You do have control over whom you pick for a relationship -- and how you spend money in it. Perhaps find somebody who doesn't mind going dutch and paying for only their share of everything, which might be better for you.


The women lambasting men who won't treat women to dinner dates are the same women who wouldn't treat a man to a dinner date themselves.


I treat my s.o. to amazing home-cooked dinners.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 658
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 4:11:00 PM

I don't want a woman who will leave me if I get laid off from my job or the economy crashes.


I got laid off from my job a few years ago and wasn't even able to get unemployment insurance. I don't get as many hours at my new job and I'm currently looking for a second employment opportunity. This has never gotten in the way of dating except for one date that felt more like a job interview. The simple solution is don't date terrible women and you'll be fine.
 Behind-Blue-Eyes_53
Joined: 12/19/2011
Msg: 659
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 7/22/2015 4:26:02 PM

I treat my s.o. to amazing home-cooked dinners.


That, by Your own words, He pays for.....

Maybe it came from living in a High 'Cost of Living' area, & being in the Middle Class, but we've always shared expenses...

Sometimes I put more in the pot, sometimes She did.... then we'd talk about what was left, after the Bills were Paid....
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