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 8soldierfalcon8
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 155
When should the woman offer to pay?Page 5 of 35    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35)
I don't understand why who pays is such a big deal to some people.

If I dated a chick who made a big deal out of it one way or another, I'd probably dump her.

Life is too short and happiness is too fleeting to get stressed out over who buys the friggin coffee.

-8sf8
 njbris
Joined: 10/17/2009
Msg: 157
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/9/2010 11:43:58 AM
Ray of ray


That's funny because A: You don't date men, or do you? and B: I run into them all the time. If fact it's been a rare occurrence when the man I have been on a date with did not become insulted when I insisted on paying.It was not a belief that this is what they were upset over.I was told specifically that this is what they were upset over. These are not beliefs.These are my and other women I know personal experiences.


1. Over the years I have only ever seen a few men in this forum express that they get offended when a woman insist on paying her way

2. I have seen everywhere in this forum from 100s of women over and over again complaining about men being cheap or what ever for not paying. Or making up the excuse that men get offended if they insist on paying

Which is now relating to what you said here…


These threads are very rarely indicative of real life


Hmm, I guess this only applies to one gender heh

SonyaLT


Thank you! I love it when guys like you respond to posts like this. It puts all the women here on notice. Ever heard the phrase: "Better to be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt"?

Please go back and read messages 165, 166, 168 & 173, perhaps you'll learn something. But, let me help you out a little, you seem a bit slow:


Nice try, but sorry, you don’t fool me. I perfectly understand them messages that you mentioned. That’s what made me respond towards you to begin with.


No. You're not correct. "I'm a giver, with a servant's heart. When I am covering the cost, I pay in advance. That way, there's no discussion." Which also, means that your next comment makes no sense either:


You didn’t directly answer the question that you were replying to. Epic fail.

You said towards me “no, you’re not correct” but you didn’t explain why. You just rambled on with this nonsense about that “you are a giver with a servants heart” *cough* (from the person who believes she shouldn’t pay on dates)

Which means, your comment doesn’t make sense.

Answer the question, I will say it again…

So if the woman doesn’t pick up the tab, it must mean that she is not caring, considerate, and a lady. Am I correct?

This is asking about when the man does what you want, which is him paying for everything while you don’t pay a cent.


Personally I think you just look for opportunities to use that special, exciting word "pu$$y" that you have learned.


Again, what you quoted me from with this reply, you avoid answering the question. Another epic fail.

You are using a diversionary tactic in the attempt to cover up your bigoted hypocrisy.


There are no mind games, and no discussion about "money issues". I show in action that I am prepared to cover my own way. The funny thing is that, some guys, think this behavior suggests that the woman is saying that "she does not need a man for anything". But, that's too much for you just yet.


What a load of cow manure.

Let’s go back to this post of yours. msg 165

In the second paragraph, you first say this…which you already quoted


Normally, I reach for my purse. If the man says, "I got it." I put my purse away. If he does not, I cover my portion of the tab and pick up the tip.


But in the same paragraph after what you said in that quote, you say this…


However, if we pay, we don't typically go out with that guy again.


Are you sure this is not playing mind games?

So let me get this clear, you use body language such as reaching for your purse, which is telling the man that you are expecting to pay your share. But if the man follows your signal that you indicated, he is wrong for doing so.

Noooooo, that’s not playing mind games. You can’t indicate one thing and expect the man to do the opposite. It’s your own fault if it doesn’t turn out the way you want it, no one else’s. Yet, you blame the man for it and reject him. How clever.


Are you projecting? I see on your profile that you are listed as "single". If I cared, I might wonder why that is.


What I am pointing out here is that the reason why you are single is blatantly obvious, as what I have been expressing in my post towards you.

It's up to you to head it or not.
 8soldierfalcon8
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 158
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/9/2010 11:49:03 AM
^^^ Wow. Well done.

That's one of the best rebuttals I've ever seen on here.

Lady - whoever he was talking to.... you just got pwned. Badly.

-8sf8
 8soldierfalcon8
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 160
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/9/2010 4:35:11 PM

Actually I believe that my chicken remark was quite clever. HMMMMMPHF!


Oh... it definitely was clever. In fact, when I meet a cute chick, I want to cluck her.

LOL! he he he he

:evil:

OT: I don't think there is a right or a wrong on this issue. Some people are just compatible and some are not. That said, people should be honest about what motivates them.

-8sf8
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 162
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/9/2010 6:27:10 PM

Over the years I have only ever seen a few men in this forum express that they get offended when a woman insist on paying her way



Yet again these forums are not indicative of real life and what is going on out there with the majority of people.Very few fishies even use the forums. If you look you will see that it's pretty much the same crowd over and over with a newbie thrown in once in awhile for good measure.



I have seen everywhere in this forum from 100s of women over and over again complaining about men being cheap or what ever for not paying. Or making up the excuse that men get offended if they insist on paying



When you start thinking that the stories and scenarios in here represent what really goes on out there in real life is when you really need to take a break from here and go out into real life again. My experiences many times over that when I have insisted on paying the men became very offended and shut down right then and there when just seconds before they were in good humor, talkative and generally upbeat.



Hmm, I guess this only applies to one gender heh



Nope it applies to both.



Again you don't date men.You never have and therefore have no first hand experiences with dating men. These issues you have never experienced first hand.


Anyway enough of feeding the troll and I will finish off by saying that in the whole "who pays" debate I believe that it should be discussed before even going on your first date. I prefer to pay for myself simply because it makes things easier for both people. I should of had this rule of dating long ago but only started it within the past few years. So talk about it before and let the person you are going on the date with how you feel and what you believe about dating and who pays.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 163
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/9/2010 6:29:57 PM

I don't understand why who pays is such a big deal to some people.


I can clearly state that who should pay on a date has never been a big deal to me. When I went on my last date nearly two weeks ago, I offered to pay for my own drink and as I was pulling out a $20 bill my date implied that he doesn't mind paying and he did.

It was no sweat off of my shoulders.
 JRodriguez81
Joined: 2/24/2010
Msg: 165
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/10/2010 7:33:11 AM

I almost always offer to pay and am always turned down. Now it is my opinion that men take it as their responsibility to pay because as a man, it is their role to provide for females. Especially females they are interested in luring closer... Real men don't cry about buying a date dinner.

The only place I've ever heard men complain about paying a woman's way is on online dating sites.




Yawn.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 167
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/10/2010 8:43:01 AM
I have to say, it wasn't until I came to POF that I learned how
awful this phenomenon of non payment of coffee was. I just
assumed you shared the cost in a first meet, the person who
asked you out paid (if you asked you paid) after that, and
eventually when you got into a relationship of sorts you worked
it out between you.
Who knew you needed a bunch of strangers to tell you who should
pay for your coffee or hotdog?
I've yet to go out for free food with someone I don't like just because
I was hungry, but I hear there are tons of women on here that do that
as well.
I guess they must be the same women that wait three days for a call
(or maybe that's three dates for sex) I dunno.

 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 168
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/10/2010 8:52:34 AM
A woman being picked up at home by a man and taken out for dinner comes from the time when men worked, women still lived at home and didn't own a car or work until married, and there was an exchange for money and time along with chivalrous nature that was necessary for a man to accomplish getting to know a woman away from her parents. Since most women married instead of starting careers or studying for them, dating the man they would marry was a bigger decision in the scheme of things.

Nowadays most women work, drive themselves, go to college, do their own thing. The idea that it's a man's job to pursue, pay for everything, make all decisions in a relationship, or any other thing that involves heavy lifting isn't true - but it's convenient for women who find that attractive. There's nothing wrong with liking a man who does everything while you sit back, but call it what it is - your specific preference. And there are men who like to do that type thing, it's not wrong, it's a match for two people who are ok with those roles when dating.

If you are a man who doesn't want to do any of the things that it's been said you should do when it comes to dating - own that. Make sure that right up front you let people know that's what you're about. If the consequences are that you date less - than own those consequences. Stand up for what you believe in, even if it means you're single more. Some men seem to have beliefs they either will toss aside or hide from women if they feel they'll get rejected for it. So instead they end up dating women that want different things and complaining about it - but it's half their fault.

Finally I agree with people who say that if it's a militant thing either way to the point the date and getting to know each other take a back seat to proving your point, it's not even worth going on the date. Two people who really like each other won't split hairs to this extent unless they're just not in the right frame of mind to date anyway.

I've yet to go out for free food with someone I don't like just because I was hungry, but I hear there are tons of women on here that do that as well.

I agree with this too - I mean how hungry do you have to be to eat with someone you have no interest in - even if he did pick up the check? A lot of us would rather just skip eating for that day. Maybe after not eating for like a week or so, our judgement would get much worse - but for most of us eating Ramen noodles facing a wall would be a lot more appetizing.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 172
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/10/2010 6:49:59 PM

Well that's all fine and dandy if you take an extreme view one way or the other. Either "Men always pay" or "There's no way I'm paying for you." --But what if your like me who is in the middle, who actually likes to be generous to people who are APPRECIATIVE, not expecting it. You know, at least say thank you.

That's where you use your common sense, your knowledge of people, your ability to read through the lines and see body language. Suggest something casual - if you get a strong veto with a speech about what you should want to be doing - red flag. Suggest coffee or appetizers. How she is about a $15 dollar meet she'll likely be on a $100 dinner. Does she offer to pay and genuinely pitch in? Does she sit back and assume you'll pick up the check? Does she go for her purse with no intention of pitching in? Does she decline the meet altogether or try to reroute it to a fancy restaurant? Use your head about it that's all. If she's so hot you can't pay attention to what her motives are, learn to put that aside and be objective.

So you don't believe a woman would go out for a free meal?

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure some do - I just can't imagine it or identify with being THAT hungry, that's all. I think men fear this more than they should, and they think it happens way more than it does.

Well your right that they wouldn't go out with someone they had ZERO interest in. What if she has some interest and wanted to get to know the guy better. She agree's to go out with him and as they talk before dinner she realizes she doesn't like him, but she's at the restaurant and thinks she deserves a big meal for wasting her time.

Too much gray area, that falls under the category of unless it's set in stone that she likes you, don't pick up the check. Or - pick up the check the first time and chalk it up if you think that's too much. People can and should discuss this in initial correspondance and conversation to get a feel for what the beliefs are about this.

She let's him pay and then never calls again. Do you think that might be possible???Because it's happened to me. And seeing that women on here complain about just about everything a man does, I think men have every right to complain just as much.

Well, that's what dating is. Like I said if you don't want that happening to you, make sure you're clear that you won't do it before you even talk the first time; post it in your profile - or don't take a woman you just met out to a dinner that's going to cost you should she decide not to make plans for another date. Make it a cheap place, keep it casual like drinks and apps/coffee. Complaining won't help - and the situation is totally and completely avoidable with some effort. If it happens once and you learn, fine, complain. If you insist on continuing to do the same thing and get burned - no one wants to hear about something you keep on doing when you don't like it.

Change it or accept it.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 173
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/10/2010 7:02:15 PM
Oh WOW, another why women don't have to pay thread! How novel, how different!

Look, there is right and wrong. The problem is the right and wrong depends on the guy your talking to, and the age of those involved. I have my ways and attitudes, others have theirs. But first let's have some fun and explode some myths:

1. Let's leave Emily Post and that "who asks, who pays" horsesh1t out of the equation. You can't get 2/3 of the women on this site, to email you first, do you really expect them to ask ANY guy first? Ladies stop this nonsense, it's just an excuse to support the idea that the guy should pay.

2.As for those who say, "I'd rather sit home and eat Ramien noodles and stare at the wall", well that maybe you, but I can assure you, many of your sisters, have no problem with accepting meals 2 or 3 times a week, with Attila the Hun, as long as he picked up the check.

3. Please stop with the "home cooked meal", that's like the sasquatch sightings, I hear about them all the time, but never see one! Here I am, stuck in the "bless your heart" part of the country, where southern hospitality is supposed to reign. Uh-uh still doesn't happen.

4. Clothes, makeup, shoes, lipstick and hair. Well I guess we show up naked and unshaven! Don't even go there, most of you do that and more, all on your own, without a man to do it for. I'm not saying I don't appreciate a woman looking good and dolled up. But being a slave to fashion is on you and what you want yourself to be percieved as.

Look some guys don't make great scratch, especially in this economy. An $60-80 date is the weeks entertainment for some guys. Almost any woman can get 2 or 3 dates a week and not be out a dime versus his one night a week with you!

As for me, yeah I'm a freakin dinosaur! I am one of those guys who pays, but I can appreciate, the other guys position. I prefer it my way, I can date as much as I want. I also like to select the restaurant, so I know the food will be good. I don't message a lot of women, only those with similar interests, so I want to sit and discuss things we BOTH enjoy and are interested in. So yeah, I do dinner dates. If I liked you enough to write you, we were both interested in the same things, I don't think it would be hard to break bread together.

JMHO
 sweetlikesugarcane
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 176
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 4:32:30 AM
Men should stop paying when they stop wanting women to wear skirts, high heels, long hair, nailpolish and makeup because none of that makes any sense either. (And it costs a ton of money). Either you believe in equality or you don't and men don't except when it comes to their wallets.

If you want a girl to show up dressed like you are then she can pay half.

I always hear "modern" men try to explain why they want their wives to change their name after marriage.... But that is another thread topic.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 177
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 4:42:25 AM

Well by this point it's a little too late after we get the check. I can either go ahead and pay or stay and do dishes.

Ok, so in that case if you can't foot $15-20 to find out, then I guess you should take some time off, or agree to go dutch before making plans. Or did you just read what you felt like reading out of the whole paragraph posted and react?

Your in denial then. I've know good women who tell me about friends they have that do this often. Maybe you don't do it, and that's great, but like it or not it does happen quite a bit.

Even if it did, it doesn't excuse men from using their common sense to avoid it. It's not hard to avoid, unless of course you're trying to close the deal and get a date now and worry about the rest later (quantity over quality) - then yeah, you're going to end up in some situations you wish you hadn't agreed to. *shrug*

I thought that's what these forums were all about

To some extent, people here should learn from what they read and experience - in fact, people everywhere should learn as they go, or are we not doing that in society anymore?
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 179
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 5:11:48 AM
^^^I was asking you to read a woman's reaction TO THE CHECK when it comes to determine subsequent dates in an inexpensive situation, like NOT dinner but drinks/apps/coffee. This is in future meetings, not past ones - I don't own a time machine.

Your response was "by then it's too late" - and since you just said you can afford it, you must have read it wrong - since it's a solution to the problem. Too late for what?

There's no response required to the suggestion, really. You can take it and change things, or not take it and repeat things.

If I read your post wrong and there was no problem and dating is going well for you, then I guess we're done here. My mistake.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 181
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 7:17:58 AM
Post 244 was way to harsh IMO.
The reality is...there are women that spend a small fortune
on looking good and there are men that appreciate that and
have no problem with it. You see it all the time, rich good
looking people out on the town...you think those women
ever pay for anything? I don't.

If you're not "one of those dumb b!tches" it really shouldn't
be an issue for you.

This is the ordinary forest, where ordinary people do everyday
things like paying for their own way. But most of us realize
there is sometimes another world and another point of view out
there.

egads.
 charlie_girl_2
Joined: 1/2/2010
Msg: 182
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 7:28:13 AM
Wow... I see we are back yet again to this subject and frankly, I am surprised that it didn't get the axe early on.

I repeat what I've said in this same topic several times before, and that is-- that I always sincerely offer whether first date or the last date (well, maybe not on the last date). More times than not, my offer is refused.

Each person's financial status differs. I don't know about the men other women date, but not all the men I go out with are considered well-off -- I know that I certainly am not. If we've been out on a few dates where he has paid, I offer to cook for him paying for it all, including the wine, and tell him all he as to do is to enjoy. If we go for a motorcycle ride, I pack the picnic lunch. Going to the beach or out on the boat, same thing. Many dates have gone this way and with men who have the money to pay for it all-- every time, and with those men, I am usually royally treated when he does pay. How bad is that? As long as it is reciprocal in some way, both can thoroughly enjoy dating without ever feeling used.



Charliegirl
 Rarebird76
Joined: 5/10/2009
Msg: 183
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 7:34:41 AM

Just putting what she said out there:



"Men I'm dating want me to look hot.
Try dating other men.


Having my hair done costs money
Don't do it if you don't want to.


Having my nails done costs money. Makeup costs money, perfume costs money... and fashionable clothing costs money.
See above


If he wants me to fork out that kind of money to look good for his benefit, he can shout me a meal and some drinks."
DO men say 'I want you to look good for MY benefit'? I think the 'benefit' is with the woman in being able to attract a man who might not be interested in her otherwise. If you aren't interesting enough without resorting to sex appeal and assorted paraphernalia to achieve it (cosmetics & clothes) well........


Clothes, makeup, shoes, lipstick and hair. Well I guess we show up naked and unshaven! Don't even go there, most of you do that and more, all on your own, without a man to do it for. I'm not saying I don't appreciate a woman looking good and dolled up. But being a slave to fashion is on you and what you want yourself to be percieved as.



just another perfect example of a high maintenance princess with the self-justifying attitude that says owning a perfumed vagina entitles her to something. [:eyeroll:] it's not the only example of it i've seen on this thread. what such "ladies" fails to realize is that the whole premise is completely OFF! therefore every conclusion based on the faulty premise is OFF, and it breeds nothing but the kinds of self-centered attitudes i see being floated around here in the name of being "hot" a.k.a. "special". to them i would say: get the hell over yourself.
It's hard to get over yourself if you confuse fake-ness with the reality of who you are.
 *november babee*
Joined: 2/19/2009
Msg: 184
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 7:36:18 AM
i have only ever been on one date and not even offered to pay for anything and only because the guy asking me made it quite clear before the outset of the date the place was very expensive he wanted to take me too, and i asked if we could go somewhere else as it was a little out of my price range and he insisted that it was his treat and that he would be offended if i was to even offer to pay..
i have to say i had a really nice time, the food was really really nice, the drinks lovely and surroundings very grand.. it was nice to go somewhere like that and be treated to how the other half live, but i didnt feel comfortable there and wouldnt be breaking my neck to go back there again, free dinner or not...

other than that type of situation, i would say you should make a realistic offer/insistance that you pay for a share (wether equal share or not..) of the cost of the date regardless of who did the asking or inviting....
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 187
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 6:24:03 PM

When should the woman offer to pay?


Whenever she wants.
 njbris
Joined: 10/17/2009
Msg: 188
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 8:54:54 PM

"Men I'm dating want me to look hot. Having my hair done costs money. Having my nails done costs money. Makeup costs money, perfume costs money... and fashionable clothing costs money. If he wants me to fork out that kind of money to look good for his benefit, he can shout me a meal and some drinks."


This is pathetic. As BDJ said, women do this for themselves. Even when women are happily in relationships and go out on a girls night, they still make effort to make themselves look good.

Secondly, men need to groom to. It cost money for men to buy nice clothes, shaving utensils, hair gel, cologne etc etc.

Why can't men demand this...


If SHE wants me to fork out that kind of money to look good for HER benefit, SHE can shout me a meal and some drinks."


But of course, a man would get laughed at if he tried to pull such a stunt.

Eldrida, please ask your sister to come in this thread. I would love to have this discussion with her.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 189
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 10:35:51 PM

This is pathetic. As BDJ said, women do this for themselves.


I agree. I really don't see how women keeping ourselves up by dropping money to look good, have anything to do with rather men should pick up the tab on dates.
 JRodriguez81
Joined: 2/24/2010
Msg: 191
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/11/2010 11:45:41 PM

Just putting what she said out there:

"Men I'm dating want me to look hot. Having my hair done costs money. Having my nails done costs money. Makeup costs money, perfume costs money... and fashionable clothing costs money. If he wants me to fork out that kind of money to look good for his benefit, he can shout me a meal and some drinks."

I don't entirely agree with her but I can see her point...




Short, and sweet: Your sister is insane.


Seriously ladies...how many of you would take on a similar argument such as that? Im HOPING not many of you!!

I have faith in most of you ladies, but if you take on the above mentality then you're just out of your mind.
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 192
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 12:59:30 AM
if you are dragging me to any artsy fartsy cultural display of something I have no inclination to be at anyways, then yes, you are paying, and that counts for haute couture food and chic flicks.
 8soldierfalcon8
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 193
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 1:45:07 AM
Men have been beat down, and now feel they need to accede to women in order to get attention. It's a damned shame. Why in the world would a man feel 'lucky' that a woman paid for around half of a date? I think that shows a terrible state of affairs for men in the current dating market.

Personally, I don't much mind paying for women, but at the same time I don't expect women to be my equal. I'm not sure why so many men quote the aphorism 'well it's 2010.. women wanted to be equal, here you go!'. Why would you care if women want to be equal, most especially if men see that women will still carry the same level of expectation from men regardless? Why are men so caught up on treating women as equals? Women acknowledge that they don't even consider themselves equal with men.


I'm still trying to figure out whether this is profound or misogynistic.

That said... I kind of understand where he's coming from. I'm an alpha and I date 9's and up. These women are in HIGH demand.

So I suppose just like a fat chick may have to do sexual things she doesn't like to keep a man, she may have to foot the bill for dinner.

Christina Ricci doesn't. Beautiful, rich women - despite being rich, I highly doubt pay for much of anything. Why? Because they're beautiful. And I don't fault them that.

The tradeoff for hot women getting a free ride in life is that women are pretty much only judged on their appearance. Men can diversify ourselves a bit, and women are stereotypically attracted to a much more diverse set of things on men then men are on women.

I think it's worth it to pay for dinners to have my attractiveness judged on my hands, my travels, or my hobbies. I'm not an apologist for women. I just don't go for the modern, pants suit wearing types.

I expect to pay for every date I go on with the women I attract until/unless it's a LTR. I've noticed that women who try to pay are usually less attractive, or less attracted to me. I think it creates guilt for some people to let someone they've already put in the friendzone pay for dinner.

So guys, if a 8.5+ woman keeps trying to pay... you should be worrying about how the date is going.

-8sf8
 JRodriguez81
Joined: 2/24/2010
Msg: 194
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 2:12:29 AM
I'd appreciate it if she offered, or even paid a round or two. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with "im the man, and she is the woman"


To me, its simple common courtesy, and should be shared by human beings of any gender. Period.


I do not like when someone EXPECTS me to pay all the time, simply because "im a man"....that in itself to me, is a ridiculous logic. I was reading through someone's page today...and here is what they expect on their first date scenario....


"Whatever i do for the first date the man have to pay and he cant be cheap.
I like someone that takes care of there self and me"



Why must that even be said? That just screams of ill mannered to me.

I have no real issues with paying for a date, but if im not dropping cash money all the time, and we're going to spots where no money is needed to spend time together, is that looked upon as "cheap?"


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