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 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 198
When should the woman offer to pay?Page 6 of 35    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35)
Women who do themselves up to the max when they're going out with the girls are, more often than not, LOOKING for men, whether it's a LTR or a pull. There is a pull, though, to be up to your girl friend's "requirements" as well. Nobody, even if they're in a LTR, wants to be "the ugly one" of the group.


Women are deluding themselves when they think all this stuff makes them more desirable. I can't recall a single time in my life where I've looked at a woman and thought something like, "You know, I just have to meet her because of those awesome earrings she's wearing," or, "Wow, she really made her face up well, I think I'll ask her out," or, "What a pretty dress, that completely changes my mind about her."
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 199
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 8:01:07 AM

I've known about half a dozen girls who toned down their dress code, etc, once they were in a LTR, including the sis. Flashing cleavage to strangers is no longer acceptable and they relax a little and not worry if their $40 eyeliner is a little thin in one corner.

That irks me, to throw in a side note. People need to be who they are, in or out of a relationship. If you like to show your cleavage - your relationship status should have nothing to do with it. If you don't like to sit home and watch movies single, doing it when you're involved makes you a chameleon. If you're a woman who likes to look good and you meet a guy who thinks you need to tone it down, that's his problem. If you think you need to turn it up to "get" a man - that's just as dumb. Find a place where you're happy with you and go with that. Who else likes it and who doesn't isn't important. Just had to vent on that.

When do I get hit on? Usually when I'm in a tank top and jeans running into a store, or looking like absolute crap when leaving the gym. I think most of what we do is for ourselves also - because men don't seem to care either way. If they're into you, they're into you.

Personally, I don't much mind paying for women, but at the same time I don't expect women to be my equal.

Not sure if I should find this refreshing or offensive. The only way men and women aren't equal nowadays is biologically - and with the choices we have that's not even relevant. I think people are people regardless of race, gender, orientation as far as what they can do and want to achieve.

I'm still trying to figure out whether this is profound or misogynistic.

Ok, good to know I'm not the only one on that.

I expect to pay for every date I go on with the women I attract until/unless it's a LTR. I've noticed that women who try to pay are usually less attractive, or less attracted to me. I think it creates guilt for some people to let someone they've already put in the friendzone pay for dinner.

I agree with this to some extent. Granted, I'm not a 9 so I don't know - but I am fair and never EXPECT men to pay for me which speaks more about my upbringing and aversion to possible obligation than my interest in who's in front of me. I will however tend to insist more on paying my share when I'm not really that interested so as not to confuse the guy.

Of course I believe first meets are "neutral" so to speak and therefore don't think either person should have to foot the bill - but I also believe it should be quick and inexpensive to the point where it's not as important as the person I'm meeting and what the overall vibe is.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 200
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 8:02:15 AM
When I see a "hot" girl, it has nothing to do with clothing, makeup, or jewelry.

Taking care of one's personal hygiene does not mean spending two hours in front of the mirror obsessing about the details. I will go one step further. Not only does excessive makeup and overly frilly hair not add to a woman's appearance, it DETRACTS from it.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 201
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 8:20:44 AM
I don't find this to be an issue in real life.
It seems to be top on the POF list of the
10 Things I hate about dating though.

It is a bit distressing to find that I've been
offering to pay, paying or taking turns all
these years because I'm less attractive than
my counterparts or because I'm
a fattie and I have to pay to have people take
me out. Sheesh...who knew?

If this is the life of the alphas...I'll stick with
the uglies and fatties.





and PS to these guys that claim to be Alpha men
that think women don't need to spend money
to look good for them....I'd bet you'd be singing a different tune if
your 9 or 9.5 or even 10 showed up without her usual hairdo, manicure,
make up or outfits.... you'd be wondering where the heck your girlfriend
went. People like to look good. And people like to be seen with people
that look good. Who the heck do you think you're kidding?

 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 202
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 9:02:04 AM
People like to look good. And people like to be seen with people
that look good. Who the heck do you think you're kidding?


Not kidding anyone. Just providing the pure, unvarnished truth.

It doesn't take a ton of money for a good looking woman to look good. And if a woman isn't good looking, spending a ton of money on clothes, makeup, and jewelry won't change that.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 203
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 10:25:12 AM
^^^You know, years ago I was talking to a guy I ended up dating who was a bartender in a club I worked in. We were just talking about what type of customers came in, etc...and he gave me a lot of useful information (at the time) about what men tend to actually like.

I pointed out a woman who was in heels, decked out, sitting at the bar drinking wine as a woman that I figured most men would drool over. He said "eh" to me about this - when I asked why he told me most men see that and think either "high maintenance" or "uptight/can't relax and have fun/get dirty" two things a lot of men aren't real big on in a woman they want to get serious about.

I think his words were something like "I'd be afraid to smudge her or ruin something if I got too close, who wants that?"

*shrug*
 Rarebird76
Joined: 5/10/2009
Msg: 204
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 11:29:42 AM

I'd bet you'd be singing a different tune if
your 9 or 9.5 or even 10 showed up without her usual hairdo, manicure,
make up or outfits.... you'd be wondering where the heck your girlfriend
went. People like to look good. And people like to be seen with people
that look good. Who the heck do you think you're kidding?
Where did she 'go'? She never existed in the first place!! hahahaha. I know.....reality is harsh. Those who choose to accept it generally find themselves a lot less confused than those who bask in fakeness.
 Paderic
Joined: 2/23/2010
Msg: 206
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 3:53:30 PM

A woman staying in shape takes money, and more importantly time and self discipline.


No more so than a man. It takes very little money to pull on a pair of trainers and hit the road.

People who think it takes a membership in a posh gym to keep in shape are just as deluded as those that think it takes expensive clothing and jewelry to make themselves presentable.
 Englishbreky
Joined: 6/24/2009
Msg: 208
view profile
History
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 5:28:05 PM
I think i generally feel to pay on a first dinner date..This is baring in mind you have already been for a casual drink beforehand and like the person your buying dinner for..
Although i would feel if the wowan offers to go dutch is a good sign shes willing to pay her way..
A previous girlfriend who believed that in her mind the 'Traditional' way is for a man to pay for everything..I mean, every date, dinner, drink in a bar, everytime..Whats mine is mine and whats yours is mine kind of attitude.. Hence to say that i wouldnt put up with that attitude!!
Well its my opinion, if your wanting equal rights in this day and age, then you should be willing to pay your way, not be a gold digger!!
If the girl doesnt earn as much as yourself then its fair to take her out more and pay for dinner/outings, Isnt that what a relationship is all about?? Give and take, respect for each other??
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 209
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 6:29:15 PM
Holy sh1t! Where the he11 is this thread going?

Alpha's and 9's and 9.5's, give me a break! Please SOMEONE, sh1t ANYONE, email me and SHOW ME one 9 on this whole freakin site? I mean really, if you think a REALLY hot woman, who is a nine, is sitting home hunched over her computer(if she knows how to use it, lol) and is dialed into POF, send me some of that sh1t your smokin!!!!

Now further, if your on here, dating from here, you AIN'T dating 9's!!!!

Further most guys on here wouldn't know alpha, if it bit him in the azz. Alpha's are leaders, not narcissists. Narcissists don't give a sh1t about anybody but themselves. Alpha's lead organizations, foster teamwork, lead with vision and yes at times are meaner than snakes. They also recognize the abilities and shortcomings of others, utilize the one and eliminate the latter, by encouragement or by culling them out.

Stick to the topic, when should a woman offer to pay. As I said use your personal preference, pay or split the check, whatever. Just eliminate the garbage excuses, as I said earlier.

Oh and one more thing, while I'm at it. No matter what you do, women are predisposed to think of men as cheap if they want to split the bill. Now notice I said WOMEN, cause let's face it, just like the woman who said, she didn't know which was right. Men don't know either and from ALL the threads I've read, MOST if not ALL women seem to hold the same opinion, if a man doesn't pay, "he's cheap!"

More than JMHO
 njbris
Joined: 10/17/2009
Msg: 210
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 9:08:57 PM
Men don't owe women sh!t on dates and women don't owe men sh!t on dates. End of story

Why so many complications? Why do we have to resort to that you pay for this and I pay for that?

Why not, I pay for my own way and you pay for yours? No complications, no drama, plain and simple.

No mind games, no expectations.

Geez
 452
Joined: 11/1/2009
Msg: 211
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/12/2010 9:33:08 PM

Men don't owe women sh!t on dates and women don't owe men sh!t on dates.



Well you at least owe them your company since both of you agreed to the date.
 _Icon_
Joined: 5/18/2008
Msg: 213
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/14/2010 3:19:45 PM
When should the woman offer to pay?


When she is the one extending the invitation.
 BentonHarbor
Joined: 3/2/2010
Msg: 215
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 4:49:28 AM

How did this come up again?!

The other thread was better, but they deleted it after it reached 100 pages of back and forth insults and crappy statistics...

The unfortunate truth is that, women (in general) will continue to bask in the comforts of being women - jumping the queue at clubs and bars, not having to pay for drinks or meals, and generally not having to carry heavy boxes - as long as men still have general feelings of attraction or desire for them ...



This IS the topic/subject that just doesn't go away----what a shame too! Almost 9 months and only 12 pages so far but no real signs of it slowing down-----worn out, tired and about a boring a topic EVER yet its so easy for these to go horribly off topic almost immediately.

Ya know dating and who pays has never been a problem for me because when ONLY dating initially I'm more than happy to foot the bill. Then again I've invited all sorts of friends out for an evening and paid without anything expected in return. A co-worker, friend, someone I'm interested in getting to know better----anyone. Recently I've taken to seeing active duty military families or other uniformed safety force personnel and secretly paid their checks, rarely letting them know who it was from.

All of that on my part was 100% voluntary and always my desire to do so. I like that SOME women of today believe those who ask should pay only because it seems to be good social etiquette and it's fun treating another well.

The above quote is spot on for a number of reasons but men who like women will never have a problem making an invitation and paying without the drama and angst this brings out every time. Whether it's viewed as "old skool" for the man to pay initially or its expected on the part of the woman men don't have to participate and they should let it be known right up front their feelings. This will assure them their money will be safely tucked away since not many women would date a guy with such issues even BEFORE they meet!

Its a business doing pleasure with some people.........!!
 JerseyGirl2008
Joined: 12/27/2007
Msg: 216
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 5:19:55 AM

The unfortunate truth is that, women (in general) will continue to bask in the comforts of being women - jumping the queue at clubs and bars, not having to pay for drinks or meals, and generally not having to carry heavy boxes - as long as men still have general feelings of attraction or desire for them ...

To a very large extent, this statement is true.

And even businesses COUNT on this rule of thumb. For instance, you hear alot about bars having "Ladies's Night" - the gals get in free (no cover charge) and/or their drinks are half price all night, etc. etc.

Why do you think they do that? Because they think women are "gold diggers" and won't pay a cover charge? Hardly.

They do it to attract MEN into their establishment, that's why. Bring the ladies in and the men will follow. It's not rocket science.

As the poster I quoted above stated, there's just always going to be certain privileges woman are afforded as long as men are going to be persuing women. As I've always said, the strong opinions voiced by the guys on these forums just don't apply to the gentlemen I meet in real life (in MY experience). When offering to pay my half of the bill for a date (or wanting to get the next round of drinks, etc.) I've been laughed at, looked at increduously, been ignored like he wasn't even going to entertain the thought, and one man, horribly offended, even lectured me that I'm "never to bring that up again when I'm with him - ever."

Again, these have just been my experiences.
 njbris
Joined: 10/17/2009
Msg: 217
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 6:48:20 AM

To a very large extent, this statement is true.



And even businesses COUNT on this rule of thumb.


And when men stop being seen as "woman haters" for being against such bigotry, this world will be a much better place
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 218
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 7:35:48 AM
And when men stop being seen as "woman haters" for being against such bigotry, this world will be a much better place.

That'll happen as soon as men stop planning their nights (and days too, who are we kidding?) out around meeting women. As soon as women don't matter in social plans to men, (entertainment) businesses will stop catering to them. So anytime you're ready to find another reason to go out on a weekend (when you're not already on a date), we'll all be waiting.

Believe me, I think it's better to go out for the place and the atmosphere than for the women - but for some reason if a place has lousy drinks, and has one toilet that doesn't always work, some men will still frequent it and pay to come in if they learn there are a pack of women going. Perhaps you all should talk to those men in your weekly meetings.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 219
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 7:38:11 AM
WOW dude, you got a real thing for another poster!

While I don't care, I will point out, that I find some of what you said suspect.

"any entrepreneuer" aside, sometimes you do in essence 'fire' or end a relationship with a client. Unreasonable demands, poor payment issues, changing goals or service demands mid project, can lead you to spend so much time on one client, that overall business suffers.

As for dismissing staff, if you inherit staff or change the way the organization operates to serve a different market segment, some employees can't, won't or are incapable of adapting, so you do what you gotta do. Further I can't believe, you've NEVER been fooled by someone! The interview goes great, references check out, then when they get hired they fail when the rubber meets the road or fail to mesh with the rest of the team. The latter always happens when they have a personality quirk, not apparent in the interview process.

I won't beat a dead horse, jus sayin, in my experience, never say never.

OT: I agree that there seems to be well established mindsets on both men and businesses to cater to this notion of women should pay less or not pay at all. Yes, your right, as long as men continue to either put women on a pedestal or chase them as though their lives depended on it, they'll get away with this behavior.

Further in fact, I think a lot of this in the modern women comes from that "princess syndrome" where she views herself as 'special'!
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 221
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 8:30:22 AM
Well Danielle, sorry that, that "pizzes me off", but as has been stated many more times, only 10% or less post on these forums. Since you don't date women, I'm not sure you would have seen the behavior as much as men have.

Further your right, as I said, I do what I do, BUT my reason for posting here is that I SEE the point that the men who wish to date this way are trying to make. Further, if a good number of men, post that I am wrong, I will be happy to not only change my opinion, but to retract the statement.

One thing about the forums, when I see something I might NOT do, I try to not take it personally, as it doesn't relate to my behavior.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 222
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 8:45:27 AM

we've covered that time and again in these forums and since men ask women out more than women ask men out - I feel that is an unfair way to look at it.


Though I don't have the "You asked me out, so you gotta pay" attitude, many women still feel that whomever ask that individual out, that individual has to pay.

I have a close friend that prefer to go dutch, and he does it every time. We never dated but he's strictly for going dutch, which means he doesn't pay nor will he be paying for any future dates on women's behalf.

As for the princess syndrome, I've read entirely too much about some women behaving like princesses, sucking men out of their money and expecting men to just bow down to them because they have a vagina.

I view such thing as insecurity in some men. They've obviously been played like suckers in the past, and are now taking it out on women in general. This is like the equivalent of some women worrying about being an easy 'hit it and quit it' lay.

If some of these people feel that way, there are two simple solutions.
Go dutch or don't date at all.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 224
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 9:19:43 AM
As usual, I'm with Wild Heart on this. The real frustration is coming from the men who don't like to pay for a woman who ultimately won't want to date him long term. There's no way to find out if a woman is going to like a guy past date one (or date 12 honestly) without first going on that date.

It's been said here a billion times that if you don't like to pay, then don't - no one's got a gun to your heads to empty your wallets. So the fact remains that if you let women know up front you aren't paying their share - or you're not going anywhere more formal than a coffee or drinks/apps then there's never any confusion.

However since men are more about quantity than quality they don't want to scare off women up front, they just want to close the deal, get the date and then worry about it later. They won't say anything early on and then will complain when they end up paying the check because she assumed you were paying and you never brought it up.

I'm with Rushluv on this too. Guys: It's REAL simple. Don't date or insist on dutch if you don't want to pay for a woman on a date - and deal with women who won't agree to dates based on this. In fact be happy you dodged a bullet; if you didn't want it anyway then the system is working. If you do offer to pay, then you'll be out the money whether she likes you or not, so don't do it based on how much you hope she likes you. Just decide what you want to do one way or or the other and just stick to it.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 225
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/15/2010 9:29:48 AM
Well, I guess I have been told off! Sorry if somebody pizzed in your cornflakes today, but it is what it is.

"So according to that logic, I or any woman on these forums can say whatever we want about men"

Yes, and they certainly do! How many threads start out with the premise of "men, all they want is sex" or similar sterotyping. Now I don't believe that, neither do other men, but it makes for making some feel better saying it. Usually followed by a score of women agreeing.

As for shaming, well, that's on you, if your not guilty, then no amount of statements will make you feel shame.

As you said, whatever.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 230
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/16/2010 5:58:05 AM

Usually if I see an attractive woman with her nose in the air, or especially at the gym when they do the extra walk around you I'll look the other way or walk away.

You notice women at the gym when you're supposed to be exercising? Perhaps they are busy...actually working out. Just a thought.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 232
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:12:19 AM
^^^I apologize, I tend to be blunt and direct and it gets taken wrong. I said that before because we were discussing what men don't like about dates when it occurred to me you weren't having any problems so much as you were just contributing to discussion - and my comment was better aimed at men who were paying/complaining. Once I realized you weren't talking about yourself I more or less agreed with your point.

In the gym most people aren't usually paying much attention to anything outside of what not to walk into between sets and what time it is. So I agree with Wild Heart that it's probably not a case of interest OR non-interest as much as she's in her own world. Most (not all) women aren't typically in that mindset in a gym. Even I have missed a few hot men between the ipod, the screen on the cardio machine, the magazine and the TV in front of me.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 233
When should the woman offer to pay?
Posted: 3/16/2010 10:53:42 AM
I don't honestly think this is a problem most people experience in
real life. It becomes a problem when people keep going on first
dates only and never get a second date, then they look upon the
whole first date ritual as someone looking for a free meal.

I honestly don't know people that aren't comfortable with paying
all, paying part, paying the tip or just plain going dutch. If you don't
want to pay, make that known upfront...let's go out and let's go dutch...
or I'll get it this time...you get it next time. Sounds pretty simple to
me.

I still think there are also men in real life that have no problem paying
all the time for the women they are dating, and there are women in real
life that have no problem with this. It's just a matter of finding the person
that thinks like you and avoiding those that don't.

In the end...it doesn't really matter what other people think and there
really isn't a right or wrong answer...it's whatever works for you.

I like to keep things simple.








Oh jeez...I just noticed an important post directed to me by BDJ.
I didn't read it though...because I can pick and choose what interests
me...and his nibs rarely does.



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