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 JustMary65
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 65
casual sex or friends with benefitsPage 3 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
No Jco,

But there is still an unnecessary double standard woman are faced with if they are/act like their male counterparts. The general notion is a man is considered studly if he has many sexual conquests over the course of his life, however if a woman acts in kind she's generally looked as loose or easy or slutty...for lack of better terms.

Again, if folks worried less about labels and more about interpersonal relationships there would be less fighting and more loving going on. Just saying. The status quo might not work for the general population, but I say live and let live. Sex is fun....more folks need to have FUN.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 66
view profile
History
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 3:14:08 PM
^^^^I don't know if I'm all that taken with women wanting to act like guys, which is pretty much what the OP was getting at. It sounds a little like envy. They're free to try, but I can't see how emotionally distant sex would be that satisfying for most women. The only thing that makes it satisfying even for most men is novelty and the illusion of intimacy, and all that disappears fast. It's very flattering to have a woman proposition you--but the result is not necessarily that big a thrill. It's much more fun when she's your baby-- sex as calisthenics must be an acquired taste that most of us haven't acquired.
 JustMary65
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 67
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 3:19:06 PM
Match Light...but I think that is what the OP is driving at...the perpetual double standard....what is so wrong with wanting to have sex...just cuz you want sex?! I guess I move to a beat of a different drummer, because I stopped worrying what the majority thinks and do what I feel is best for me...and if by some twist of fate I found myself with a hottie and got my groove on without the benefit of being in 'love'----I didn't get all upset and cry over it.

Every person is different and while I prefer sex with someone I love...random wild nights of passion have merit too. I also tend to NOT believe all the wild stories some men brag about because I think even some men would get sick of one night stand after another without feeling something for another human being.....we are social creatures...are we not?
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 68
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 3:32:39 PM
I'm not saying SOCIETY doesn't try to restrict women...in fact its mostly the women's libbers who like to restrict women from WANTING to have sex with men, be stay at home moms or sluts...or both!

I'm in favor of sluts! ...And not because it gives me more access either...
my GF is a slut! I love her, I like that she has the power to do as she pleases. That is why we're in an open relationship...

Of course every time someone hears we're open they automatically think I'M using her or just want to play around.... actually I COULD play around, but so far haven't! She has though.

Oh, yeah...and we started out as friends, then FWB'S, now BF/GF... we're going to wait a bit before living together. I see this continuing to progress though... I will probably marry her at some point.... I hope! I will not ask her to stop being a slut though! She knows as long as she's smart and safe about it and only LOVES me, she can do whatever makes her happy. BTW each of us does have veto power on outside partners, she's already used a veto once.

I think ALL women should be that free...
what a wonderful place it would be if we could stop judging people for being happy! As long as there are no victims...do what you do!

As for men being able to distance themselves from feelings/meaningless sex... It's an illusion. It does feel empty, I prefer to be in a relationship. When single men are players its more about ego and the thrill of the hunt... Now that I'm in a relationship, if I were to play with anyone else it would be more because of curiosity an/or variety...
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 69
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 3:40:19 PM
Some men can't wrap their heads around this idea because they still see "Mom" as the way women should be.

Maybe if men thought more about how constricting some of "rules" that women have to follow have been, they might see beyond how they think we should act.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 70
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 3:59:00 PM
The general notion is a man is considered studly if he has many sexual conquests over the course of his life

Not really. That slows down to a crawl then flagged in a negative way once you're finishing up your early 20s. It's not as bad as gals, but no -- it's not a positive thing if such casual sex is frequent.

however if a woman acts in kind she's generally looked as loose or easy or slutty...for lack of better terms.

Again -- a guy is looked as a player and hissed upon, but:
(a) Guys will get little flack from their fellow gender (guys)
(b) Guys are less image-oriented than women; so societal flack is less of an issue

When it comes to gals:
(a) Guys will give little flack toward sexually-free women (guys who WANT the girl but know they can't have her will be some of the sour-grapers, but overall, not a lot)
(b) WOMEN are the ones who are the main proponent of the 'slut' factor
(c) Women pay more attention to what other women have to say when it comes to things image-related
(d) Women are more image-conscious

In essence, it's not the "guy's fault" that this societal imbalance exists, as far as image-issues are concerned. It's thankfully lessened over time, and guys get their fare share of flack moreso than decades past, but something still exists, but again -- it's not a guy's "fault".... if one is going to play a gender-game in terms of pointing responsibility, it'd be other women doing so.

Why would women be like that? It's a cyclical thing, I believe. For men AND women (past high school and early college), as far as image is concerned, it IS better to not be running around having casual sex. That's indisputable. The problem is who gets more flack for casual sex? Girls. Okay, so this is why it's a cyclical thing where some women like to keep it that way, indirectly...

Women care more about image, especially sexually-related image. The "he used me" card is a way out of having that image. It's the get-out-of-jail-free card, even though it waters things down when it comes to gals who ARE used. Now, if not enough guys actually DO use a gal to hop in the sack -- well, that'd make gals look bad, right?

I mean, many normal women do have casual sex here and there, but saving face, a good amount have to have been used -- otherwise women will be seen as 'sluts' -- we can't have that! And that would ALSO emotionally "expose" gals who do "slip up" and take a roll in the hay as not being able to play that card if not so many guys were running around using gals. So all those "SLUTS" are ruining it for every "normal" gal in two ways:
(a) They can get in the way of getting a cute guy (jealousy)
(b) They ruin it for normal gals because that makes girls look like they may not be being used if too many seemingly normal gals roll that way! And with less value to the "used me" card, the image will get worse!

.... so you use the slut card to prevent too many gals being sexually free (ie bad image; 'sluts'). It's an image-protection thing gender-wide. BUT it Prevents any social move toward it being as OKAY for women to have casual sex as men.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 71
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 4:21:03 PM
This is becoming funny... its almost like interests or hobbies....those that are so into their interests that they live their lives around it look down on someone with the same interest but on a more casual level... the interst means so much to them that anyone not AS into it as they are are somehow lesser of a being.

Hey, if you don't like or believe in something, don't do it! Don't go around putting others down for it though.
 namrael
Joined: 8/10/2008
Msg: 72
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 6:56:28 PM
@matchlight:

I don't know if I'm all that taken with women wanting to act like guys,


Er, what now? If I have casual sex, it's not because I'm "trying to act like a guy"--it's because I'm acting like me. I'm a sexual being with sexual agency, capable of saying no or yes depending on what I want, and sharing my yeses with partners who are also capable of saying yes if they want to have that sort of fun with me. I'll also not that casual sex doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't some sort of connection there; it depends upon the situation and people involved.

@jco:

I'm not saying SOCIETY doesn't try to restrict women...in fact its mostly the women's libbers who like to restrict women from WANTING to have sex with men, be stay at home moms or sluts...or both!


The "restricting women from sex" feminists you're referring to would be part of second-wave feminism, which is a rather small movement these days. There are plenty of feminists in favor of recognizing women's sexual agency and ability to say yes, either as freely or as seldom as they'd like to.

@Confident-Realist:

Women care more about image, especially sexually-related image. The "he used me" card is a way out of having that image.


I think there's some truth to that. Slut-shaming is a strong force for women in this society, and I think women learn not to express their own sexual agency. The "he used me" bit is a way of decrying responsibility for their part in a sexual experience that otherwise would be "not okay" somehow by societal standards, though I also think it's worth noting that for women who've internalized those standards sufficiently, that is how they actually experience these things.


.... so you use the slut card to prevent too many gals being sexually free (ie bad image; 'sluts'). It's an image-protection thing gender-wide. BUT it Prevents any social move toward it being as OKAY for women to have casual sex as men.


Yup. This is why I've started owning my stuff. Because it's okay for me to have the sex I want with consenting partners, because I have the right to make those decisions for myself. And f*ck anyone who dares to judge my behavior, so long as I'm being ethical and responsible in it.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 73
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casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 7:24:02 PM
Can I get an Amen?!!
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 74
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 7:30:30 PM
^^^great post Namreal and Confident. I long ago abandoned any idea of someone using me. One must give consent to allow that. In fact, I don't think I have ever uttered the "he used me for sex" words. I've felt "betrayed" in other ways, but even in that there is retrospection of self. Perhaps, this is because I've "used" men for sex as well to coin it in an unsavory manner.

The thing is, I've tried the casual sex route and it is not for me, but that doesn't mean that I didn't learn from it and didn't enjoy it at the time, or that others may enjoy it. I just can't sit in condemnation of what other folks choose to do, as long as, as Namreal says, they are being ethical and responsible.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 75
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 9:26:10 PM
@Namrael:





@jco:

I'm not saying SOCIETY doesn't try to restrict women...in fact its mostly the women's libbers who like to restrict women from WANTING to have sex with men, be stay at home moms or sluts...or both!



The "restricting women from sex" feminists you're referring to would be part of second-wave feminism, which is a rather small movement these days. There are plenty of feminists in favor of recognizing women's sexual agency and ability to say yes, either as freely or as seldom as they'd like to.



I stand corrected....the first wave was for women's rights...the second wave was more about man bashing!



 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 76
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History
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/15/2010 9:35:18 PM

I'm a sexual being with sexual agency


Does this sexual agency have a name?


capable of saying no or yes depending on what I want, and sharing my yeses with partners who are also capable of saying yes if they want to have that sort of fun with me.


Doesn't sound much like a spontaneous outpouring of passion. Does anyone have to sign a release or other agreement beforehand? Also, I notice that you can say no or yes, and the other party can say yes, and that you can share yesses. I assume they can say no to your yes, too.


I'll also not that casual sex doesn't necessarily mean that there isn't some sort of connection there; it depends upon the situation and people involved.


Yes, there's a connection all right. But what kind? Pretty obvious that depends on who it is. I think it's easier not to feel much attachment when there's not much intensity.
 OpenItAndIFillIt
Joined: 6/10/2010
Msg: 77
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casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/16/2010 2:28:18 AM

This idea came about due to the prevalence of slut-shaming in our culture. Women are just as sexual as men, and there are plenty of women who WANT multiple sexual partners. There's no gender determinism in all this; it's all about what individuals want in their lives, and how their individual sexuality functions.


I wasn't judging. It seemed as though you were insinuating that I was. I merely expressed an answer to the OP's question as to why it is ok for men to have many sexual partners, but is seen as wrong by society.

My personal opinion is that none of us know why anyone else chooses the sexual actions they do. We do not know the circumstances of their life experiences, and given the same life experiences, we probably would choose the same lifestyle they did.

In a like manner, I expect the same tolerance for my lifestyle.

What I stated was how society views the situation. Good luck changing the opinions of an entire society. I have worked with many men and women, and have found what I stated to be true in a substantial majority of them.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 78
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/16/2010 4:19:17 AM

Hey, if you don't like or believe in something, don't do it! Don't go around putting others down for it though.

It really IS this simple.
 namrael
Joined: 8/10/2008
Msg: 79
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/16/2010 5:25:01 AM


I'm a sexual being with sexual agency

Does this sexual agency have a name?


Er, what? I have no idea what you're asking. I don't call it Fred.



capable of saying no or yes depending on what I want, and sharing my yeses with partners who are also capable of saying yes if they want to have that sort of fun with me.


Doesn't sound much like a spontaneous outpouring of passion. Does anyone have to sign a release or other agreement beforehand? Also, I notice that you can say no or yes, and the other party can say yes, and that you can share yesses. I assume they can say no to your yes, too.


No, it can be very much a spontaneous outpouring of passion--that passion doesn't have to be love. I've learned of late how to let it go and just go with the direction the energy is going if it's someone I feel safe with and attracted to. You seem to be assuming more complexity there that there actually is. And of course the people I'm interested in are capable of saying yes or no depending upon what they want.


Yes, there's a connection all right. But what kind? Pretty obvious that depends on who it is. I think it's easier not to feel much attachment when there's not much intensity.


There can be intensity without possessiveness. I don't get sexual with random people; everyone I'm sexual with is someone I know and trust, and with whom I have some sort of relationship, even if that's just friendship. For me, that makes for a safe environment where I can just let it go, feel what I feel, and go with the uninhibited lusty fun. :)
 namrael
Joined: 8/10/2008
Msg: 80
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/16/2010 10:15:31 AM
I don't think the system DOES work the way it does (in the sense of something actually working well for the people involved). I think your scenario is a bit weird, m_church, and I'm a bit baffled at the idea that sex is somehow a competition, as opposed to people having fun with the people they like to have fun with. I don't think of sex, or sexual partners, as commodities, and I'm happy that the people with whom I spend time don't think that way, either.
 SpecificTruths
Joined: 9/19/2009
Msg: 81
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/16/2010 10:44:01 AM
^^^ You spend time with some good peeps, nam. Men go to great lengths to compete for women, especially at a younger age.

If you spent a few days pacing the halls of a high school, you'd see all kinds of posturing and chest beating by the boys in order to attract girls and compete for them.

Is it lame? yes
Is it prevelent? you bet your azz it is
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 82
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/16/2010 1:04:28 PM
^^^^ Some just won't ever get it!

The way it would REALLY work is that with all the free sex going on ...it would no longer be so novel... people would get over it real fast and concentrate on finding "the one" more... the competition would be for personality match-ups more so than just looks. There would be LESS people being players and more people being happy!
People would feel freer to express their sexuality, making them more likely to pick compatible partners there too! As long a sex is kept in the dark, there will be people who will lie to themselves and their partners...which ultimately comes to light in a bad way down the road.

To me, its all this hiding and shunning that disturbs a lot of relationships, often way too late in the game too.

Of course what I'M leaving out here is the people who would STILL be bitter because they were left out in the cold...they would find some way of trying to stop others from having a good time.....they always do!

Instead of fixing themselves they go around trying to break others...they're called HATERS!

 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 83
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 11/16/2010 5:39:23 PM
What I don't get is why you feel the need to insult people who disagree with you...



It's really only the ones who think they're not getting enough sex who **** about it the most... The rest of us are ok with more meaningful lives...


It didn't take too long, did it?
 ferfoxache
Joined: 2/4/2011
Msg: 84
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 2/25/2011 10:57:20 AM

Why is it so wrong that a woman wants just that causual sex or friend with benefits.

Because

...Most women still need emotional connection...unfortunately...or sex won't cut it off

so it makes it ten times harder for any new guy to build their own emotional connection to her, because first they have to overcome and build one greater.
So there is greater probability of failure, cheating (physically or emotionally), and significantly greater effort for the same outcome as they'd get with someone without having to fight an existing intimate emotional connection.

And if people were really great at not being lazy, and believing the extra effort was worth the same outcome as little effort, there would be no online dating.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 85
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 2/25/2011 4:10:54 PM
I wouldn't use the term MOST when saying some women crave more... Every FWB situation I've been in has been initiated by the woman.

I think that BOTH sexes ultimately want more, men just might be a bit better at compartmentalizing than women...in general.

Women want sex just as much as men...I've recently been approached by two former FWB's to maybe start up again or at least once in awhile....both have recently broken up and the BOB isn't cutting it.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 86
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History
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 2/25/2011 4:30:42 PM

All my FWB are pretty sure that all I want is sex...and that is not true - it's just what I want them to think.

Huh? So you're lying to them hoping you can sex them into a relationship???

Wouldn't that negate the "friends" part of the equation? Anyone that lies to me
isn't someone I consider a "friend".
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 87
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 2/25/2011 5:05:17 PM
FortyNine.... You mis understood what I was saying.... It was stated previously that women usually want more (than just sex....ie. a relationship.)

I was saying both sexes generally WANT more but men are (generally) better at compartmentalizing it.

I then went on to say that women want sex just as much as men do!

Men are more coy about relationships
Women are more coy about sex

....in GENERAL!


BTW I wouldn't recommend being in a FWB if one partner is secretly wanting more!
 ForeverLong
Joined: 11/22/2007
Msg: 88
view profile
History
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 2/25/2011 9:17:46 PM
"FWB is pretty good relationship...while it lasts" I can relate to that. If someone thinks it's wrong , then it's wrong for them. If it just bothers them what other people think, get over it or if not then it's wrong for them.
 1234deleted1234
Joined: 10/8/2009
Msg: 89
casual sex or friends with benefits
Posted: 2/26/2011 1:47:49 AM

We go out Friday's nights, catch movies, all nine yards.
We just both know that we are not good together till death makes us part



Well, THAT is exactly what FWB is....You do things friends do, but you also have sex and you know the reasons why it won't progress!


I don't sex anyone into relationship, I just choose good sex over bad relationship.

and, FWB is pretty good relationship...while it lasts


EXACTLY!
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