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Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 10
Is a world revolution inevitable ? Page 2 of 3    (1, 2, 3)
I see a global revolution as being only decades away (probably less). I think we are finally going to see a global society of anarchists, under the jurisdiction of natural law and fundamental justice, cooperating to produce most effectively thru the mechanism of direct democracy.

I don't now yet if the revolution will be peaceful or bloody, but I see it coming...
Joined: 4/19/2007
Msg: 11
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Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/29/2009 3:55:30 AM
It's gonna happen. We just never had the technology to vote all that quickly on a range of issues until recently. It's not been all that long that the internet has been in public use, say since 1995. That's only 14 years. You have to give it more time, until it sinks in to people, that they CAN vote via the internet.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 13
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 6:00:14 AM

Maybe if you had a world government there would be a world revolution.

We do...and there will be. The common man is awakening and is getting angrier as his eyes open.
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 14
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 6:27:36 AM

As for getting anything done, nearly everybody has a mobile phone, an idea for speed would be via a registered mobile number for every voter, and a time period of a month to debate the subject and amend, maybe on forums not too dissimilar to this, then voting for, against, or just abstaining because you don't care, or you have better things to do than decide what laws you will be governed by.

Again, the issue is how often are you going to do a referendum? On every issue? Only the "big" issues? What about those who think a little issue should be a big issue? How about those who can't access the system because of a computer glitch?

Also, consider that voting rates are usually what? 30 or 35 per cent? That mean 65 to 70 per cent of the populace are not disengaged.

What does that do for the idea of "revolution?" Small revolutions on a country-wide scale? Sure. World wide? Doubt it. You have to have unity of intent, unity of purpose and unity of belief.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 16
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 6/30/2009 2:37:24 PM

65 to 70 per cent of the populace are not disengaged.

Not yet disengaged, but many are disenchanted; they just haven't yet realized that not voting or spoiling a ballot can be a much stronger vote for change than voting for the (perceived) lesser evil. It should soon dawn on people that the game of partisan politics is no more than a pro wrestling match where the voter gets to vote for the "good guy" & hopes the "bad guy" loses. It has taken awhile, but it's finally dawning on people that the match was scripted and choreographed long before the wrestlers entered the ring.

World wide? Doubt it. You have to have unity of intent, unity of purpose and unity of belief.

Unity of belief: "The government and its corporate arms oppress me with false authority and the unjust confiscation of the fruits of my labour, which is as often as not used against my conscience, my interests and my fellow man."

Unity of purpose: "All men are my brothers and in the absence of evidence to the contrary, should be considered capable and allowed to govern themselves. My obligation to my fellow man in any event, is to be his keeper, not his master and to strive to preserve his rights and freedoms, not to infringe on them."

Unity of intent: "I will stand against any entity, be it human or organizational, that unjustly claims authority over me or my fellow man."

These things, or something synonymous, could be said (and probably will be said) by enough individuals worldwide, under nearly all governments of the world, to start a worldwide revolt against the injustices perpetrated by governments and corporations all over the globe. All that will be required is the courage and determination to reject the false claims of authority made by the "plantation masters" of the world. The moment we realize that the "master" has less right to ownership of the plantation and its slaves than the slaves themselves, the slaves will ignore their master and run the plantation as free men, entitled to the fruits of their labour.

The human society that supercedes the existing governments, will form a government of its own, built on natural law and compassion, wherein all the rights of the individual are paramount and his one obligation will be to love his brothers and sisters all over the world. As John Lennon said...Imagine!
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 19
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/1/2009 7:30:14 AM

Maybe a good starting idea would be to actively reward unselfish-love

The revolution has already begun, but many don't yet see it. Like a job well done, unselfish love is its own reward. It really is true that (and I hate to refer to the bible) if you cast your bread on the waters, it will be returned sevenfold (approximately - I'd say the reward is closer to infinite).

Until we have given unselfishly of ourselves, with no hope of compensation or reward, we can never appreciate what we gain in doing so. However, everyone on this planet has in him the ability to be another Buddha, Jesus, Gandhi, Schweitzer, etc. In fact, we already are; most of us just don't know it yet. More people are waking up every day; soon it will reach critical mass. At that point, the tyrants and oppressors of the world had better watch out; there will be no place for them in the NEW "New World Order." They will be at our mercy and had better hope that we will be as fair and merciful as they should have been.

we work hard until we turn it into butter and walk out of it stronger

That excerpt from your question answers it.

what we currently class as wealth is fake, terminal, finite.

I sincerely hope it won't take the imminent threat of the extinction of the human race to realize that. People have been dumbed down for decades by the masters of society, but they surely can't be that stupid!
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 20
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:03:00 AM
Too many people are still saying "I'm only one man. What can I do?" The problem is, they think it's a rhetorical question.

Maybe it's time we started trying to answer it, secure in the knowledge that even one man has the power to change the world. All it takes is some courage.

Take my word for it; it will only take a few people to rebuild the world; after all, it only took a few to wreck it.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 21
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:28:19 PM
Leading words...Truly Leading.

This is another thing that bothers me; why don't people take charge of themselves and lead, instead of sitting around, looking about hopefully for someone to lead them? Not one of us should be sitting around doing that. Every single one of us should take charge and BE a leader!

We are not a herd of cattle; It's high time we stopped acting like one! Many of us have already walked away from the herd, not because we hate the leader, but because we don't need one and have often seen leaders take the herd off the edge of a cliff. There are many of us that you won't find in the stampede to the slaughterhouse.
Joined: 12/31/2005
Msg: 22
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Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:10:24 PM
I think it is (inevitable ).
I started to pay attention to "politics" at home when I was 8yo. At 13 I realized what you just wrote on you OP.
Since then I traveled all over the world and have seen this situation building steam worldwide. It isn't about "right wings", or "left wings". It's about the vast majority been subjected to the will of a few "elected" individuals (who are supposedly elected to take care of their property and administrate it) being controlled by the "elite".

In fact it started already, you may not be aware of it, because western media puts a "different name" (a more used term is "demonize it") to make people believe it's "something different". But if you go over the recent events taking place over the last couple decades, you'll see what you are talking about starting to take place in some places around the world. It hasn't still reach a point of "clear change". But it can be easily seen every day people involved (taking charge) of the situation with the intention to bring about a real change on the states of affairs on their areas.
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 24
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Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:21:16 PM

Lets face it, prisons are brimming, kids have totally lost respect, school stabbings are at an all time high

You can probably lay this at the feet of their parents and the schools and governments they influenced to create a "utopian" society without personal responsibility and without discipline. Without either, it is human nature that there will be many who take advantage of the naive or unresponsive remainder.

Humans are not a loving species - no species is. Success as a species requires a degree of selfishness, and in a utopian society, those whose glasses are the deepest shade of pink will be the most taken-advantage of.

It is also human nature to be lazy. Evolution demands that an individual, to be successful, guarantee his own success and that of his offspring, by gaining maximum reward for minimum expense. Why produce what you can take what someone else has produced? Again, this applies to every species. It also applies to voting. The vast majority won't involve themselves in understanding complex issues prior to voting, any more than they apply their brains to issues of science here in the PoF fora [meaning, virtually not-at-all].

We're better off without more ignorant votes, though we could stand for more informed ones.
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 25
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:15:25 PM
Yes it is.

I truly believe the concept of government is evil & immoral. An institution that's historically built & created on force cannot be used for good no matter how the government rationalizes it. Governments since their creation will always have bloodshed on their hands.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 26
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 12:16:44 AM

Humans are not a loving species - no species is.

I'll be the first to admit that our genetic programming is not far removed from monkeys, who spend much of their day hurling feces at each other (not the greatest family heritage). I would contend though, that humans are smart enough to overcome their programming, whether genetic, or societal and finally become a rational species that can save itself from self-destruction.

Success as a species requires a degree of selfishness

Erroneous assumption. There are many species that function altruistically by their very nature.

in a utopian society, those whose glasses are the deepest shade of pink will be the most taken-advantage of.

A utopian society would assume that human nature dictates that less rational/intelligent beings will seek power and hegemony over their fellows and attempt to take an unfair share of resources. At the level of the individual, this can easily be prevented by law and the courts. At the level of nations, it only becomes a matter of assuming some greedy ba$tard will sooner or later try to take power and possibly launch a war of conquest. Consequently, nations (if they still exist) will watch each other for such signs and act as required, though, because the mechanisms of world law would be in place everywhere, I'd say it would be just about impossible for another Hitler to ever take power anywhere. If one ever did, he would probably be dealt with in the same way that existing governments will soon be dealt with. If it is done succesfully once, we will know that it works and can be done again, long before it reaches the point of militarization.

It is also human nature to be lazy

Another erroneous assumption. Laziness is a quality of an overly powerful, decadent society or individual. A utopian society would not have many (if any) "lazy" people.

Why produce what you can take what someone else has produced?

Why "take" anything? It would be given to you if you need it (guaranteed subsistence by right to life). If you wanted say, a big screen TV, that's another matter. Why should you get one instead of your neighbour? After all, we don't have 6 billion of them to give out. Have you worked enough for the necessary credit in your account to obtain one?

The vast majority won't involve themselves in understanding complex issues prior to voting

Who cares? Human rights and the structure of society won't be the stuff voted on. There will only be votes on things like how much to spend on medical care and schools, or whether new roads should be built, etc. If only the people who care turn out to vote, what's the harm? The law of the land will take care of most of the issues we currently vote on and no democracy can vote to change the law (call it a grand constitution that enshrines human rights).

We're better off without more ignorant votes, though we could stand for more informed ones.

I believe that has already been addressed in that a utopian society would stress education for everyone.

Oh yeah...I forgot the best part of Utopia...FREE BOOZE!!
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 27
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Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 12:32:08 AM
Great thread, good to know that people are awake and informed. Another forum I frequent illustrates how people are protesting and demonstrating to bring attention to the masses about the decline of our world, politics etc. but so many people just don't want to know, safe in their undisturbed havens! I only hope 1984 doesn't become a reality for our grandchildren.

My knowledge is limited, but from my observations, many people are disgruntled but even more are uninterested about where we are headed.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 28
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 12:58:22 AM

I only hope 1984 doesn't become a reality for our grandchildren.

Too late. It's a reality for us now, and we've been living in it since long before 1984. People who don't already know that must have taken the blue pill.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 30
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/3/2009 2:31:36 PM

which group are you?

Do I have to belong to one? Why can't I just turn my back on the whole NWO business? You realize if we all did that their power would simply evaporate. Without our cooperation (either willing or unwitting) they will have no power at all. All we have to do to beat the NWO is stop listening to their lies & playing their game.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 33
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/4/2009 8:09:33 AM

All we have to do to beat the NWO is stop listening to their lies & playing their game.

We also have to know who they really are, but that's easy; they are the governments and men behind the governments all over the world, and they are consolidating their power. We'll have to defeat them quickly if we are to avoid a lot of bloodshed.
Joined: 6/10/2009
Msg: 34
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/8/2009 8:37:15 PM
It's really a fight against power structures, nothing new in humankind. The only way to win is to take life into your own hands. Powerful people are parasites, they need to feed on a host to stay up there. They're only as powerful as you enable them to be.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 35
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/8/2009 8:39:41 PM
Powerful people are parasites, they need to feed on a host to stay up there. They're only as powerful as you enable them to be.

Bingo!! You're right on the mark. All we have to do to defeat them is to turn our backs on them and refuse to have any dealings with them.
Joined: 8/12/2008
Msg: 36
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/8/2009 9:42:11 PM
yes, a revolution is comeing, some can feel it, some know it.... and others.. are oblivious to it... but we have hit pinical point, a cusp as you might say... old ideals conflicting with the new, are mode of life is simply unstastainable... we either change or die... soo its inevatable... some time in the ever nearer future... there is gong to be a massive shift in the human conciousness... wiether is a new light or simply lights off... change is coming
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 38
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/8/2009 11:49:32 PM

personal projections give me a death total of well over 1 trillion without nukes

You realize I hope, that a number that large is at least an order of magnitude (and probably two) greater than the planet could possibly support and even given that the rampant rate of growth could continue (which it couldn't), it represents a population level we wouldn't reach for a hundred years. How did you come to project a figure like that?
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 41
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/9/2009 7:46:08 AM

All it would take is a viable alternative.

That alternative exists (and I'm not talking about the Venus Project)

The only thing I can think of is to jail (or execute) the corrupt.

I used to think so too, until I realized that it probably isn't necessary. They can't take what we don't give them. If we stop giving them the authority to take what we produce, they will lose the ability to take because they will have no power over us.
If they try (as a last ditch attempt to preserve their power) force against us, then we will have the right to defend ourselves, and it could get pretty ugly, but I suspect that it could not be done without an army, and what army wants to shoot its parents, children, brothers and sisters? No, I suspect the army would take the side of the people, which would be the very end of any corrupt regime.

Turning our back on them and not participating is not an option. We'd starve or get killed.

Only if we did it as individuals; if we did it as a complete society, it would simply be a matter of excluding them from participation in our society by the rules of theirs.

I think we can expect another world war if the economic "fix" they put in place doesn't work out and we end up with 50% inflation

We would have had that already if the original plan had gone thru. I suspect it had to be drastically modified to ward off a civil third world war by installing leaders in government who would placate the people with fancy words and a false sense of hope. We have to realize that hope for change lies in our hands, not in the hands of whatever leader we elect in a corrupt & rigged system.

Kennedy was killed because he wanted to print greenbacks & abolish the FED and because he and Khrushchev wanted to end the cold war (which would have ended the "enemy" principle that united both societies against each other to keep the people of both sides fearful of the other side and would (of course) bring the military/industrial gravy train to a screeching halt.)

Kennedy was a member of the elite and turned on it (it had already turned on him) for the sake of the people. Don't think he didn't know what might happen. I'm sure it was a sacrifice he made willingly for all our sakes, which makes him a martyr of humanity and a man of great courage. His death does teach some important lessons though; firstly that the man you vote for isn't really in charge; secondly, that real change will not be top down, but from the bottom up; thirdly that not all members of the elite are filthy grasping thieves & monsters, only powerless as long as we think ourselves helpless and live in despair and without the courage to sacrifice for the sake of humanity.

So lighten up and be of good cheer; not only is peaceful revolution possible, but inevitable. When the time comes, we will find powerful allies turning up all over the place. The current regimes will not end with a bang; they will not end with a whimper; they will simply vanish, to be replaced with a better world. All we have to do realize it's possible and work toward it.
Joined: 7/8/2004
Msg: 43
Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 8:49:58 AM
What would happen if the army went out on the streets and the people didn't want them there?

A point well taken. Our survival would then depend on the conscience of each individual soldier, who would then have to decide between following orders (which he is trained to do, almost as a reflex), or turning on the people he originally thought he was defending. While I have little doubt the army would fracture into two camps, I have no idea which "half" would be the larger. With any luck though, between a people fighting for justice and the dissenters in the armed forces, I suspect that the people would eventually win and earn again the right to breathe free the cost of much has always been the case in the past.

Why don't we move sooner rather than later to denounce illegitimate authority and grow our own society (with its own laws - not subject to unlawful, unjust statutes) before it comes to that? A revolution is inevitable, but a peaceful one is still possible. Why don't we work for that (but keep our powder dry just in case)?

The revolution is still going on in China. It lives in the hearts and minds of its people and will eventually change the Chinese system of government, if not overthrow it altogether. That picture of one little man standing in front of a tank in defiance is burned into my brain as the very Icon of right against might (and please note that the soldier in the tank doesn't know what to do). Every living soul should have that sort of courage because if they did, there would be no need for one lone little man to face a tank. The tank would turn away, humbled and bent in service to the people really in charge - the people themselves.

Gandhi was eventually bumped off. I have no doubt that it was a revenge killing and that he is a great martyr; nor do I doubt that he was unaware of the danger, but humbly accepted the risk, happy to give his life in the name of justice and freedom from oppression. However he died, he lives in my mind as one lone little man with a walking stick and a loin cloth...who defeated the mightiest empire on Earth! -- and he did it without firing a shot!
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 46
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Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/10/2009 6:34:51 PM

Over the past few years the concept of politics has been troubling me.

Why do we really need to elect a group of beaurocrats that upon advertisement, we think closest interpret our thoughts onto statutes and laws?

Why can't I vote on what effects me directly? An argument from someone could be that due to other commitments and time, they would prefer someone else to make those important choices for them, but I am still left begging the question what about me? What about my choices on each and every issue that concerns me?

At first I would doubt my argument by classing it as selfish, but the more I think about it, the more I understand that the disillusionment is amongst nearly everybody I meet. The inherent struggle I would describe as utopia and collective freedom vs. dystopia and superfluous freedom; imposed choices by a few.

The last thing I would prescribe is to riot for your freedom, as through past the the term of instability it would most definitely cause, at best the vacuum of power would only bring forward a different set of disguises. Things must evolve via current local constitutional rules.

When you think something is wrong or not quite right, do you not act on it to make the correction?

"One day one will be many, and everyone will stand up and offer people true freedom, they will dispense with choices imposed by the few."(...sir, would you like any pickle with your cheese?)

Why can't we not only vote on each law, but even collectively dictate the law to be debated by secure encrypted e-mail? Why not by phone or text?

I think therefore I am? No, I think, I act, I make decisions, I choose; therefore I am.

I am not a socialist, not a conservative or of middle way, I am an individual and so are the other 6,763,556,999 people on this globe. Stand up and defend your right of being, of collective choice...think, act, decide,

With time, is a worldwide revolution inevitable ? We are ever increasingly collectively uprising against many forms of oppression... will we ever see an uprise against politics itself?

A simplified version of the above would be:
If politics is an oppression, and all oppressions have eventually lead to revolution, how long will it be before we experience a true political revolution?

The Founder of the United States studied all that and found that history proved that pure democracy doesn't work. They setup a republican form of government in which the people would send representatives to speak on their behalf. As one of the youngest countries on earth, we have one of the oldest governments on earth. List the countries that you know of that have had the same government for 240 years? Good luck.
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 49
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Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 1:11:48 PM

As for getting anything done, nearly everybody has a mobile phone, an idea for speed would be via a registered mobile number for every voter, and a time period of a month to debate the subject and amend, maybe on forums not too dissimilar to this, then voting for, against, or just abstaining because you don't care, or you have better things to do than decide what laws you will be governed by.

Here's a copy of a 1,500 page federal budget. And here's the 250 page appropriations bill for the purchase of support supplies for the military. While you're at it, take a look at this 150 page bill overhauling the FCC, a 57 page bill for ovrehauling the patent system (along with 3,000 pages of background information).

Let me know when you're done so we can vote. I've got another 50,000 pages waiting here for you in the pipeline.

Oh, yeah - it doesn't matter if you even know how to balance your checkbook - we still need your input. And don't worry if you know nothing about the law in general, or patent law specifically - we still need your input.

Don't know anything about communications? Doesn't matter - we're all democrats here, and we still need to know what you think about the FCC and spectrum allocation, content regulations, net neutrality, and a metric buttload of other highly technical subjects you need to understand before you can say Yay or Nay

Direct democracy is a practical impossibility with the complexity of the world today. Being able to collect and tabulate the votes isn't the issue - the issue is having the specific domain knowledge is dispirate areas to be able to make INFORMED decisions. That's why your representatives has so many advisors.

Oh, yeah - you also have to hold down a job, feed your family, and pay taxes while you digest all that stuff and cast your vote.
Joined: 4/29/2009
Msg: 51
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Is a world revolution inevitable ?
Posted: 7/11/2009 7:49:12 PM

The conclusion of your 'no time' premise does not justify the current system but it does go to show the complexity of the current "nanny state" system.

Never said it justified it. But it does explain it, and show why the direct democracy you're talking about is a non-starter in any practical sense.

Why would we need military if the world was one government?

Needing the military is absolutely besides the point - it was an off-the-top-of-my-head example of a bill.

Maybe the savings in tax's will reduce the need for so many pages in those bills.

Bills are complicated because they're dealing with complex things. It doesn't matter how simple the tax system is - you'll still have to deal with 87,000 different items when it comes to spending money.

But that is just one example of how simplified governance will lead to so many knock on positives.

I'm sorry, but I disagree. Your idea is simple, but it doesn't change the nature of complexity of governing a big, complex society.

We have the idea distribution power of media and the internet. Every law passed or about to pass recieves critiscism or praise with arguments for and against under the current system. Why would this condensation of information not occur in an utopian society? And if there is something that you feel is wrong you can read up on that section of the law and vote against that particular sub-section. That is if you have the time to care about it.

Overload. I'm a computer programmer - I have been since 1982. I spent anywhere between 1 and 6 hours a day just trying to stay current in my field, where I already have 25 years experience. How many more hours would I need about other fields to even have the minimum knowledge required to know that something didn't pass the smell test?

Trust me on this - I could, BY MYSELF, start sending you enough good, solid information daily on almost any subject of your choosing to bury you alive.

What do you think notgorshkovagain? I'm just throwing ideas about! Have you ever thought about how much of your hard work / income gets taken away directly or indirectly via government tax's towards wars, institutions, free housing, and ideals you may not agree with are neccessary?

And maybe if I knew a little more about the areas in which that "wasted" money was being spend, I'd change my mind about whether or not it's necessary. But I wouldn't know that unless I put the time and effort into doing the research, would I?

You, and others who advance this type of argument, make a big, fundamental mistake. That is, you think information is power and liberating. It's not. KNOWLEDGE is power, and KNOWLEDGE is liberating. Don't confuse the two. whYou need information to have knowledge - but you also need time and effort to turn that information into knowledge. And there just isn't enough time for a person to be KNOWLEDGEABLE in enough disparate fields for a system like yours to be workable.
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