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Joined: 6/24/2009
Msg: 51
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Justifying Cheating?Page 2 of 24    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24)
Words like "cheating" are just value judgements which are meaningless to me.

I don't live my life by someone else's code of honor.

Lets say you fall out of love with someone, and you're about to divorce them, then they find out they have cancer, and you have health insurance, I'd have no qualms with stayng married to give them healthcare while going to live with someone else to have real love.

I'm not going to drop a human being's health insurance just to conform to social convention.

Opinions be damned, only my honor code matters.
Joined: 2/27/2008
Msg: 52
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:02:47 AM
well I dont see their point at all; in fact the point is pathetic. It's ok to give up your morals because you'll lose out financially? I've heard it all. No one put a gun to him to get married.

I could imagine telling a child;
"sorry Billy that I screwed that young girl and cheated on your mom, but you see it's ok. I will stay and not lose half of everything I have so you must understand."

This attitude is the very reason people don't know what right and wrong is any more. They justify everything they do; they are always the victim and never in the wrong. Then we wonder why their kids are so messed up.

When you have kid's its not about you any more. They are the focus; and one of the most damaging things is to be a kid in a loveless marriage.

Sorry but in my family right and wrong isn't hard to see. If you cheat, you are in the wrong. End of story. If you don't want to lose half of what you own, choose a better partner, or just date and wear protection.

Joined: 10/13/2007
Msg: 53
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:21:26 AM
Its funny but this point has been made a couple of times already and it keeps getting ignored by both men and women....I wonder why?

'hmmm. So, most of the men on here would be perfectly fine with marrying a woman who would decide she was not having sex anymore after a few years? You'd be fine with living without sex indefinately or going through the divorce and losing your kids ... just to be sure you never were so bad as to "cheat"? Interesting....

And most women figure it is just fine for a woman to decide she doesn't want sex ... to deny her husband of any intimacy, yet expect him to be faithful to her ... or make his life hell? Equally interesting....'

I think its because the 'pure-as-driven-snow' types of guys can ALWAYS 'say' they won't cheat and that other guys are dirty and immoral, it makes them look and sound good. Can a woman ever be in the wrong in these situations? If a woman decides she doesn't want to have sexual relations with her husband anymore but still expects him to be faithful to her ......thats OK/acceptable/justified(for whatever reason she deems fit)? Will most folk automatically side with her and say that its fine and that she 'had' to have a reason/s for doing it? Every coin has two sides.
Joined: 4/26/2009
Msg: 54
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:45:50 AM
There is no justification! only a lack of communication, compromise and honesty! I see absolutly NO reason to cheat if you love someone.
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 55
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:34:15 AM
^^^ maybe it has to do with the fact women are working out of the house more now.
We feel we earn that independence and the access to meeting people at work, at lunch, etc and then we are exposed to same temptations men were in the times when mostly men went out and worked.

I think men cheat with women (for the most part) women cheat as well. yr below message

Yes i'm openminded. To me its more about being fair, I need to see what's fair. as you stated....society demands faithfulness, but overlooks deprivation some spouses ( not only men) are expected to put up with graciously and silently.
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 56
view profile
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:59:24 AM
One poster brought up the marriage vows......but forgot "to have and to hold"........
so when one spouse refuses to hold the you see what I am getting at?
Isn't that the first violation of the vows, before the cheating?

If a wife refuses to sleep with her husband, how will "communication" help?
What part of "I won't sleep with you" do you not understand?
Why is it that forum posters agree that one spouse should not control the other, yet say that one spouse demanding a sexless life of the other is okay?

and by the way, rosiaq, I am totally impressed with your openmindedness!
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 57
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:11:37 AM

Ebay has forums? I can't imagine even knowing that. Let alone knowing them well enough to know that another forum was "worse" than them. Now that's the best laugh I've had all day!

No funnier than a dating site having a poetry forum which is one of the best on the internets. . . .

As for OPie, and the opie question ~~ I've known plenty of peeps in my life that didn't and don't have a clue as to what it takes to make a relationship work. Bridzillas who think it's all done and set in stone on THE day. Others who have lied to get there (alcoholics, con wo/men, sociopaths, the purely lazy). I've seen men carry the load, and I've seen women carry the load of making it work. At some point the relationship simply dies. In the best of all possible worlds perhaps, it's ended *legally* before either goes elsewhere for aid and comfort. But I've seen, pretty equally, men make life hell for their wives, and wives make life hell for their husbands.

I'm not going to judge. Not my job. The Universe had indicated that we're not even competent to do so. I believe that. So I'll just let the mills of the gods' grind away, slowly and thoroughly. . . .

Joined: 8/19/2004
Msg: 58
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:12:51 AM
The forsaking all others part of the marriage vow seems to not be taken seriously by many. If a person gains weight that seems to justify cheating to a lot of people (women might lose interest if husband gains weight, but since I date men I hear about how women gain weight and let themselves go and look older,etc...seems to be a silly idea for someone to expect a spouse to look the same at 50 as they did at 25 to me.) My brother's wife has gained a lot of weight since they married 8 years ago, and when people see pics of my family 99 percent of the people who view them ask if she was large when they got married and when I say no most say she should feel fortunate because most men they know would either be having an affair or would have left her her since she gained weight.
Joined: 2/21/2005
Msg: 59
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:19:17 AM
Here's the rule..Once you are in a committed relationship, you do not seek intimacy or sex from another person, ever!
This goes for men and women, whether you are married or in a committed dating relationship, doesn't matter. You just never do it!

Follow that as a hard and fast rule, and there will be no problems.
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 60
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 5:52:00 AM

A male friend of mine has been totally 'cut off' for the last two or three years and yet she has had affairs here and there but he refuses to himself, he wants to keep things together for the kids sake. Another friend came home from work one day and his wife told him she was leaving him that second to go with a guy who she'd been having an affair with for over a year or more. Both of these guys would saw their legs off with a rusty spoon for their kids but the woman in both the cases I'm familiar with have far less involvement to put it kindly.

I can already hear the rumble of the defences being kicked up...'they must have done something to make the woman leave them....etc.', well if thats the case then perhaps the woman referred to in the original post has some responsibility too, is it just ALWAYS the guys fault? I don't think so. I'm not basing all my opinion on just a couple of friends but can you honestly believe that EVERYTHING can be put at the doorstep of just one partner?

What you describe has just switched the genders from the OP and I don't think I implied that men are the only ones that do things like this, just answered what the OP asked. I think unfortunately there are early signs that a marriage needs help, counseling, reading about different things that couples can do to increase intimacy, etc.

People are essentially lazy. If they marry fairly young, they don't know that nursing the little wounds is stupid or they put up with behavior they shouldn't, creating a dynamic that will continue to erode the relationship. Figuring out how to get back to the time when you really loved and liked the person can be difficult and many people just cannot be bothered, thinking that somehow magically the problems will solve themselves. As another noted, the new relationship that allows them emotional attachment without the quagmire is easy, and we like to press the easy button.

I think a lot of people are miserable in their relationships but they expect their partners to read their minds and do what they want them to do rather than sit down and say, I am miserable, we need to fix this so we can live what we promised with each other when we married. The promise was not to live forever in misery, but to walk next to each other sharing the joys and sorrows of life. Emotional needs are not met but instead of talking one or both sits petulantly in the proverbial corner, for either party to move beyond this dysfunctional behavior to taking a walk on the relationship whether in the guise of the affair or actually walking out the door is wrong. But you cannot prevent people from doing things that are wrong, just try to choose people that have the same level of commitment. How we gauge that? Meh.

You can look at their history, how they relate to family, how family relates to each other. There aren't guarantees, the only thing you can do is be attentive yourself and try to steer things in the right direction.
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 61
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:02:35 AM

hmmm. So, most of the men on here would be perfectly fine with marrying a woman who would decide she was not having sex anymore after a few years? You'd be fine with living without sex indefinately or going through the divorce and losing your kids ... just to be sure you never were so bad as to "cheat"? Interesting....

And most women figure it is just fine for a woman to decide she doesn't want sex ... to deny her husband of any intimacy, yet expect him to be faithful to her ... or make his life hell? Equally interesting....'

I don't know a single woman who has "denied" her man sex unless it was because she was emotionally hurt by him and couldn't bring herself to be that intimate with a person that was hurting her. This seems to be something that men don't get. I know there are some women and probably men that use sex as a weapon, I don't know any of them. This is no different from stereotyping an entire race because one person or a few happens to be a criminal, or have kids indiscriminately, or beat their wives.

And yes, if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with the no sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for, whether the person not getting any is male or female.

I don't also understand the losing your kids. Most people who work don't spend that much time with their kids, period. If you want a quality relationship with your kids you can have one even if you don't live in the same house. I think my relationship with my kids would be better, at least for me, if I didn't have to be the bad guy 24/7, if I could just spend time with them and not drag them out of bed every day and rag on them for not doing this and not doing that. Most courts lean toward joint custody when the parents are geographically proximate and certainly if this is an issue for you, you can find a house or apartment that is close to where your children live.

People that want to think the affair is the magical panacea for their b.s. are lazy whiners. I didn't have sex for around two years at the end of my marriage because I was not going to continue sleeping with someone who treated me like crap every single day, marriage doesn't mean constantly putting yourself in a situation that emotionally is not much different than being raped. He was told to get counseling or we weren't staying married and I decided that until he started living up to his marriage vows of honoring and cherishing or at least not being a pure D azzhole, I didn't have to stand up to mine. I still cleaned his house, fed him, did his laundry, I didn't need to be his ho on top of that.

If that makes me an uber criminal deserving of his having an affair I can live with that and honestly at that point, if he had one I didn't care. Might have made him more pleasant to be around. I had to emotionally detach in order to save my sanity. Guess what, I probably missed the sex too but wasn't willing to demean myself to get it inside or outside the marriage.
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 62
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 6:28:59 AM
I don't know a single woman who has "denied" her man sex unless it was because she was emotionally hurt by him and couldn't bring herself to be that intimate with a person that was hurting her

And yes, if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with the no sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for, whether the person not getting any is male or female.

then should the person who cannot deal with being intimate with the person that is hurting her ...not either learn to deal with living up to her marital vows and find a way to be intimate with him ...or leave

if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with HAVING sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for,

any argument used for a person remaining faithful in a non functional just as good for any person remaining intimate in a non functional relationship

denying intimacy is a crime to the marriage just as bad as getting it somewhere else ....

there is no justification in denying sex or cheating either ....if its not working and you cant fix it just get out /divorced

my take ...if i could not stand anyone i was living with so much as I never wanted to have sex with them ..why the hell would i care if they got some somewhere else
if you dont want him what is him cheating going to hurt ????YOUR PRIDE ..thats the only answer i can come up with

when I saw that my first marriage was not going to work .I was tickled when i found out she had a lover made the divorce go much better..i now had bargaining power
Joined: 4/24/2008
Msg: 64
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:04:15 AM
It always amazes me how someone whom is so miserable,(the married man) reaches out to someone younger, and single. MMMMMMMMMM!!!! I wonder why?
I just can't feel sorry for anyone that whines, and cries,,no more lovin in my house
My first question,,what did you do to stop it?
When others confide in such private matters, to a person of the opposite sex, younger, and attractive, there is always an underlying motive. Don't fall for the Players utlimate revenge. It is thier problem,,let them deal with it..Or better yet,,ask the spouse about it. Now wouldn't that be fun>>>>

Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 65
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:21:56 AM

It always amazes me how someone whom is so miserable,(the married man) reaches out to someone younger, and single. MMMMMMMMMM!!!! I wonder why?

the only thing that amazes me is when a man cheats and plays the victim card it is met with scorn for him

but when the woman cheats and plays the victim card she is met with the opinion that her husband caused her to cheat

not even a guys friends will buy the victim card when a guy friend cheats ...but you can bet that when a woman's friends find out she is cheating ..they buy the victim card ..hook line and sinker ....dont know how many times I have heard a woman stick up for one of her cheating friends ..this is almost universal ..and it is as disgusting a double standard as any perpetrated against women
i have even known several guys to drop their friends because they cheated and they dont want to be associated with such behavior
never even heard a woman put a woman friend down because she was cheating ...she always had a reason/justification
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 66
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:25:53 AM
Why do you assume the woman they look for or approach is younger and prettier?? That is not true. Lots of men just look for a good woman that gives them the closeness they are denied.
Some do get young gf's, but mostly they get women their age with similar life experience.

....what's up with you reposting yr comment like 4 times....???
Joined: 2/19/2009
Msg: 69
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:34:38 AM

I agree, the wife, or should I say other half, works just as hard, 50/50, but in the end, we all know the men end up paying through the nose. It really is a sad thing.

OP - I know this is a little off topic, but I just couldn't pass this statement by without responding. Men do not always end up paying through the nose. While going through my divorce, my ex wanted to keep all the "assets" and stick me with all the "debt". Alot of expensive attorney fees later, which I ended up paying all, our divorce ended with selling all the assets, paying off all the debt and we both started out at zero again. Now getting child support from him (we had 4 kids together) was a whole other battle all over again. More expensive attorney fees, jail time for him and me working 2/3 jobs, doing whatever I could to continue taking care of "our" kids. Both parties work and contribute in a marriage, whether it be working a job outside the home, or working to maintain the home and kids. And no, I wasn't married to a dead beat either. Years of analyzing the whole marriage, talking with friends and finally him getting medical help and telling my kids he has a "mental" condition was what was the demise to our relationship. But that is a whole other topic. Men do not always end up paying through the nose. Divorce is sad and hard financially on both parties concerned, especially when there are kids involved.
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 70
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:47:41 AM
Strange. My experience has been different, in that some men and women enable their friends to cheat, make excuses for them, and some don't.

I have seen that type also ..but me thinks the ones that enable their friends to cheat have in their mind justified their own cheating ...some people just have no morals

the ones I was talking about were women who would condemn a guy but justify a woman ...I have seen this too..even from my own wife ....and I called her on it and made her think ..and she admitted her bias ..
we had a couple ,friends ...we found out both of them were cheating .... my wife was talking about what a dog he was ,,and I pointed out she was cheating also and we didnt know who cheated first wife said immediately that he drove her to it ...I said so she says ..he says the same thing about her ..but you take one cheaters word over another
my wife admited her bias ..and the couple are divorced ...with my wifes approval i dropped him as a friend wife still is her friend ... and I bet still believes her ... I have not told my wife cause I dont see the point ..but I have since found out from a outside source that she was cheating from the start of their marriage ..long before he gave up and cheated ...I also havnt told my wife ..but her so called victim friend has made advances toward me ...which I easily though if i did cheat with her and was caught ..somehow she would end up the victim..think

this is not the only case of this that I know about
Joined: 12/19/2008
Msg: 71
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:09:48 AM
I have a zero tolerance when it comes to cheating in any shape or form.
If youre not happy with your life why stay with someone and continue cheating?
Youre going to destroy the trust of your family, the betrayal and youre depriving yourself to have your own freedom and happiness and stay for the sake of marriage.
Whats good of staying in one house if the intimacy isnt there anymore?
The best thing is just tell the truth that the passion isnt there anymore and seek a divorce.
I wont buy the reason about the possession that he would lose...he is going to loss it anyway if the wife found out that he "seeks" intimacy outside the marriage.
Whatever their reasons why they cheat its till not valid for me to stay marriage.
Get divorce and you can do whatever you want.End of the story.
For people who gone astrays in marriage:
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 72
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:18:31 AM
There is no justification for cheating.

In a perfect world married couples would be honest and open about their sexual needs. They would be willing to come to compromises so that both are fulfilled. It would be something shared between two people in love as an expression and reaffirmation of that bond.

Sadly, all too often it becomes a bargaining chip, something to the fill the void of a different need, or a chore or mowing the lawn or folding laundry.

If you can cheat, you truly do not love the person you are with. Could you do it in front of them....watching the tears stream down their face?
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 74
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 12:44:11 PM
Pazoozoo- Well..... that's a pretty specific circumstance. And if there is no family for power of attorney or a Living Will to handle termination of life support...

I think it would be safe to say that just about anyone who has been in love would agree that if they were ever in that state they would understand if their spouse began relations with others. That's not cheating....

Personally, I have a Living Will drawn up and recommend everyone does so. And even if I didn't wish to have life support removed in that circumstance... I would want my wife to have a happy and fulfilled life. Not one squandered in a hospital waiting for me to pass.
Joined: 12/19/2008
Msg: 75
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:25:35 PM
post 113
"If you can divorce a person lying in a vegetative state knowing they will become wards of the state, then you have a heart made of cold stone. If you can remain celibate for years and years because the person you married is in a vegitative state, you are a candidate for sainthood."

hmmm..thought provoking..but where does the vow saying" in sickness and health"til death us part goes???
Joined: 12/20/2008
Msg: 76
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:28:03 PM
I don't think staying married "for the kids" is ever a good idea. I think it gives them a bad idea of what a loving relationship is... and so the cycle of abuse continues.

But I do agree... a relationship is like a symphony and communication is the conductor... it'll continue for a little while without the conductor... but sooner than later it will devolve into a chaotic mess.
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 77
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 1:35:04 PM

A woman will stay in a bad marriage too, to be able to raise her children without hardship, .

so she keeps him around just for the money ..right...he will be better off and you also if you dump him and take his money
Joined: 7/15/2006
Msg: 78
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 2:10:21 PM
Unfortunately, money has insinuated itself into even the most intimate relationships. Men cheat because their spouse doesn't want to be intimate with them anymore and if they ask for a divorce, she gets half of everything, (they say). However, according to the law that is not true. If men challenged their spouse, they'd find that 'not putting out' is legally called abandonment. And yes ladies, she's in the wrong. He might be liable for child support after that, but no alimony. What's wrong with a lot of marriages is the wife. She wants all the perks of the union but doesn't want to do any of the work. Men cheat because they want to 'get some', and if they tell you they will lose half, they're full of crap. They just want U to put out and feel sorry for them. Now if the wife was being a 'sexy' wife, he wouldn't go chasing other women. She signed on with him and it's her responsibility to their union to
give him what he needs/wants. If he wanders because she won't, she's not keeping up her end of the bargain. Wake up call married ladies. If your husband can prove that you abandoned him sexually/emotionally before he cheated, you're SOL for alimony.
Joined: 8/19/2004
Msg: 82
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 3:08:22 PM
Women don't also lose attraction for their husbands? I know a lot of married women who say they have a higher sex drive than their husbands. Pounds and wrinkles and nagging are the kiss of death? Men do not have a lot of things they do that irritate women along with the men gaining weight and having wrinkles?
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