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 papa1973
Joined: 6/24/2009
Msg: 83
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Justifying Cheating?Page 3 of 24    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24)
Considering the opinions of both men and women regarding all the frustrations of being married.

Why does anyone think being marriage is ever a good idea?

How can you stand before God and your community, and make a vow that you will NEVER EVER EVER be with anybody else?

Doesn't that sound a little uh...disingenuous?

Does anyone nowadays actually BELIEVE that???

Marriage is essentially a financial agreement. It says "everything we all make is ours" which is good for the lower-earner (usually women) and bad for the high-earner (usually men.)

It can take months and years to dissolve the marriage, during which time any sex by any party could be considered "cheating."

Of course I want "real love" and so do most people, but it seems to me that marriage is the OBSTACLE to real love rather than its catalyst.

If you don't love someone anymore, all it should take is the words to SAY SO, then you can go love who you want and theres no cheating.

But with marriage there's umpteen months of court deliberations, financial hardship, etc before either party can MOVE ON.
 papa1973
Joined: 6/24/2009
Msg: 84
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 4:37:47 PM
"It's obvious that we can't be attracted to the same person forever but men and women see sex in totally different ways. Most men do not need an emotional connection for sex yet it is how most men can and do express their love."

Spider

I can't imagine having sex with someone I didn't care about.

Just that men get that "emotional connection" super quick, like I can look at a woman, not even exchange conversation and be thinking, "Wow look at her, she looks so sad, looks like she's had a hard life, if only I could take her in my arms and make the pain go away..."

That's pretty much "guy thinking." For me personally there's always a deep sort of empathy involved in sex.

Whereas I think for women they're not into empathy, they want an emotional COMMITTMENT that you will not only take them into your arms NOW but keep them there indefinitely, and that you will make their well-being one of your top priorities.

This manifests itself as legal and financial constructs to keep the man PAYING HER because it represents the continuation of COMMITTMENT on his part.

I think on a subconscious level many women CHOOSE to make less money, because these legal and financial constructs BENEFIT the lower-earner, and thus represent the COMMITTMENT that she wanted from him from day 1.

In other words if she makes less money, he is FORCED to action his committment.

Like the example of the doctor who offered a 1 time lump sum 500k vs monthly payments.

Of course she'll take the monthly because it forces him to remain in her life and keep his committment to her.
 HazelRose
Joined: 6/15/2009
Msg: 86
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 7:10:00 PM
I am not into cheating. I have a 1 track mind. I rather both parties agree to a non-monogamous relationship.
 lbiker
Joined: 4/24/2008
Msg: 88
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/2/2009 9:40:33 PM
Hey deer dog1..Sorry dude..but women who cheat are just as bad as men that cheat..No I don't cover for them..In fact if they confide in me..they get the opportunity to call the husband first..Or I will..Your assumtion of my comment only pertaining to this forum was incorrect..

Rosia G..my statement was about this forum thread..Not talking about the rest of the world..just this thread..Ya know the story that started this >>>>OK?????

Lbiker
 gracengracie
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 90
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 1:05:32 AM
Lbiker,
Got you, but nowhere in OP its states they go with young and attractive....they just mention they dont leave because of financial implication and that he seeks intimacy elsewhere.
 Tokolosh1
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 91
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 2:00:35 AM

....if they confide in me..they get the opportunity to call the husband first..Or I will

lbiker, I missed the part where you were awarded the divine right to interfere in other people's marriages.
 deerdog1
Joined: 12/29/2006
Msg: 92
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 4:49:10 AM

Hey deer dog1..Sorry dude..but women who cheat are just as bad as men that cheat..No I don't cover for them..In fact if they confide in me..they get the opportunity to call the husband first..Or I will..Your assumtion of my comment only pertaining to this forum was incorrect..


lbiker No If I somehow implicated that you personally justified cheating by women over men ...then it is I who apologize...I never meant to say anyone in particular did this ..I was just pointing out an attitude I see ..if by me quoting you you thought i was accusing you ..that was not my intent ..I just feel that it has become an subconscious mind set among women ...always blaming the man
 lbiker
Joined: 4/24/2008
Msg: 93
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:13:50 AM
Tokolosh 1

Whenever you have been cheated on..lied to, brutalized, and had as many years as I did trying to peace together a rough marriage. You learn that honesty is the only way to heal. If you want to protect others from being honest with themselves,,be a codependent..your choice. But anyone who knows me,,talks to me,,knows that I would do the same for them.
So yes honesty, integrity, compassion, understanding,,does allow me to tell the truth to the other person involved,,and the cheater knows it..
Your life and your desicions are your choice..
So to me it is a divine right..
Lbiker
 Tokolosh1
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 94
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 7:42:07 AM
lbiker


<div class="quote">So to me it is a divine right
Adults need to sort their own problems out. Your own experiences do NOT give you any automatic right to intervene in 2 other people's union. You don't know what really goes on behind their closed doors, you don't know what the effect on their family unit (incl children) would be if you went charging in with that kind of destructive news, and you have no right to take it upon yourself to inflict that sort of pain if you're not even affected by it. Who appointed you God?
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 96
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:02:22 AM


And yes, if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with the no sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for, whether the person not getting any is male or female.


then should the person who cannot deal with being intimate with the person that is hurting her ...not either learn to deal with living up to her marital vows and find a way to be intimate with him ...or leave

if you cannot get the situation resolved, you either deal with HAVING sex or you get divorced because that is what you signed up for,

Um, I think you reiterated my point. I think most women are still intimate with their hubands or vice versa until it gets to the point that they have been trying to do the intimacy in the other areas of the relationship, they have been dying one by one, sex is probably the last thing to go. Then yes, it is time to get out.

Deer, you may be the type of person to always see someone as withholding rather than something I really cannot find the right word for. After an extremely vicious verbal attack on myself and my then 11-year-old daughter, I told him that the marriage would be over if he failed to get counseling. I wasn't withholding waiting for the trip to the counselor or until an improvement was made in behavior that was intolerable and highly damaging to my children, I just simply couldn't bring myself to sleep with someone who Margo described in another thread, had 100% contempt for me as a person. Maybe some people can continue to have sex under those conditions, I don't know many people that would or should. By your definition I should have walked out the door that day but I wanted to provide him in opportunity to do what he needs to do, for the kids and himself. Nearly seven years later, he is content being miserable.
 zapped
Joined: 12/19/2008
Msg: 97
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 9:21:13 AM
post 123
IMO you cannot clean up the bad act(cheating) by doing good deeds like taking care of you while youre in vegetative states.
Its the husband obligations, responsibilties to take good care of you.
Its just like saying that Im a good husband and a good provider but I need to cheat on you because I want to satisfy my needs.
Its because one partner cannot give intimacy anymore..one has to find it else where.
That's a double blow in the part of someone who is in disabilities.
Where's the respect,love,symphaty of people towards your behalf who cannot perform physical intimacy anymore?
For me cheating is cheating no matter how you want to justify it.
I should say If I couldnt handle my responsibilities anymore of taking care of someone who is in vegetitive states, ill walk out in the marriage rather than to cheat with them.
I rather abandon/give up my marriage than to cheat while im still married.It sounds like a selfish act but thats all I can think of.
In that case,I could understand his/her part and would willing to let go of them than slap on my face that they need to cheat because I no longer capable to give their needs.
Families or institutions will take care of you should your partner leave .
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 100
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 5:04:43 PM

This belief in absolutes with regards to this subject is a gross oversimplification....
^^^I agree. This is a subject where people have much more intimate knowledge of than is indicated by the number of posts to this thread---I'm absolutely certain of it. I find it hard to be hard line personally on something like this. I'm simply not into judging people about these types of things....and yes, I've also been cheated on. In my own case I harbor no longstanding animosity regarding what happened to me. I was as culpable in a different way. I have never been a cheater but I know my share of them and while I'm not complicit in defending their behavior, I think understanding has to be more around what is happening individually in a situation and not simply some visceral fixed, across-the-board, gut reaction. jmo.
 curlygrl
Joined: 11/8/2006
Msg: 101
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/3/2009 5:49:30 PM
There is never a way to justify cheating. Just like it's never right to blame the person your bf/gf cheated with.

"She knew he was with somebody"

There's no point in having any animosity towards the other other person. In fact you should probably thank them and give them a gift certificate or something, they just showed you that the perfect person you are with isn't worth the crap on the bottom of your shoe.

I never looked at it this way - thank you.

I have never met a woman that did not give her husband her all and still got cheated
on - I agree some women do not perform thier wifely duties but what about the
women who have sex every night, take care of the house and bills and take care
of thier man - what about those woman - what is that Mans excuse? Is he a different
breed of man - Is he just selfish to hurt her or is it something in his brain that
keeps him from keeping his dick in his pants?

Nothing in this world justifies cheating. Its hurtful - it messes with your self esteem,
self worth and craps up your life.

Get out of the marriage or relationship and take your necessary losses.
Cheating is just a poor excuse for the man/woman to GET BACK at the person
instead of either leaving or working it out because you dont want to lose your stuff.

You still lose your stuff so its a no win situation all the way around.
 Tokolosh1
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 102
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:42:59 AM
pro-filer

As we're on the topic of divine right, stop expressing my own views more eloquently than I can manage myself. Forcing that on me isn't your job. Stop it, or else it's Jethro & Jed for you.
 Tokolosh1
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 103
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:49:19 AM

I NEVER EVER stated cheating was justifiable.

Understanding something does NOT mean I believe it to be moral, acceptable or justifiable. It simple means I can 'relate' to the rational behind the behaviour. I used a hypothetical man as am speaking as a woman. The gender can go either way.

God, the one thing I despise about forums, people labelling and misreading the original post.


I'm still unclear on why you condone infidelity.
 gracengracie
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 104
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:55:22 AM
tokolosh1
^^^^^ there is a difference with relating ,understanding, seeing the point, etc than CONDONING.

Just like:
Killing is bad.
Killing in self defense inside yr home property.

killing is bad, but the circumstance makes is understandable....even necessary and even legally acceptable.

^^^ this example is extreme...maybe doesnt even apply....
 readyornot57
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 106
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 4:33:09 AM

It's why I will never get married again

If you do it with a girlfriend who believes you are her partner, it is cheating.
In fact, on any girlfriend, it is cheating.
If you never get close to any woman, you are a player.

And for those who say marriage is just a piece of paper, you can not say this behavior on a girlfriend is not cheating.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
Msg: 107
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:38:06 AM
^^^A bit nomadic & Rosiag both of your posts support and reason on the importance of understanding, something I believe is mostly missing in threads like this. Nomadic, especially appreciated your perspective.

Couples feed into each other the basis for their relationship to sustain itself over the long haul. If someone unwittingly or deliberately doesn't continue to commit to the tacit understanding of what they've agreed to the other---what is sacred to them, it implodes.

Cheating is simply an outward sign of something broken in the agreement and understanding between the couple; this in my opinion is why there is such a slam against those who perpetrate this---because it's outward...it's humiliating. So does that justify? Perhaps not to most....but what is not commonly understood is this...the first underpinnings of the relationships...the attack on the unity and integrity of the couple usually comes not at the hands of the cheater...it comes at the hands of the other.

People who sit back with a holier-than-thou...'there was no reason for the other to do this to me', and rhyme off a whole slew of things that they do for the other...suggesting that they have held up their end of the bargain...simply fail to see what see the damage of changing some aspect of the agreement between them. It's hard to be understanding when there is humiliation involved, but it's even more important to take stock of the role in the breach if you are the one cheated on. The easy thing to do is to go through the rest of your life giving voice to the fact that you were cheated on...and never giving voice even privately to what you did to contribute to it. jmo.
 gracengracie
Joined: 2/3/2009
Msg: 108
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 5:51:37 AM
Sweetest,

I focus in one word that you mentioned: VALIDATION. If one of the spouses is kept sexless and not by choice, he/she start feeling worthless, undesirable, irritated, etc.
Lots of times a lover just gives them that VALIDATION, that they are still alive and wanted. In these cases affairs are conducted without intention to hurt anyone but more to heal the cheater's feeling of abandonment at home. If you read POF....most men seeking affairs prefer attached women in similar situation ( I read men's profile's, I'm sure women post that way too), they mention they want to stay married as well.

Again I'm not here to condone cheating...just to bring up some perspective as to why some cheat. In theory, a true lover is the most selfless relationship. You are together for the love of the other ( love , care,company, special friendship etc ...maybe not even in love) and a good lover's effect might even make it look greener at home. and patch up some of the cracks in the lover's marriage.
 readyornot57
Joined: 1/19/2008
Msg: 110
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 12:39:04 PM
While I believe the ladies who are posting that the sex drive with the husband was lost due to neglect or abuse on his part, I really have trouble believing that the millions of marriages in which wives hold out on sex with their husbands are all due to that.

And that is very subjective. Anybody can find stuff to justify that.....not taking out the garbage, watching too much TV, not going out enough, heck Lucy cut have cut Desi off for life because he would not let her be in the show!
It still seems to come down to a control issue, ladies, and if you don't get everything you want, you cut off sex, and that just is not love.

of course, major exceptions for being called stupid, total disregard of your needs, never being around, etc. That I understand. That is major stuff.
 ForRumOnly
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 111
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Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 1:12:18 PM
I wonder why these women who lost interest in sex with their husbands stayed in the relationship? Do these women also expect him not to cheat in that case? He shouldn't of course - he should leave or they should, but certainly they are contributing to the problem by staying.
 Tokolosh1
Joined: 6/14/2009
Msg: 113
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 2:26:54 PM
RosiaG, my last comment was made tongue-in-cheek, which probably didn't come across in my post.

And I get condoning vs understanding.
 2hi-iq-4u
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 114
Justifying Cheating?
Posted: 7/4/2009 2:28:28 PM
I have met people where it wasnt "cheating" . They wanted it that way and both knew about it. Not sure I could ever understand or relate to that.


Not many people can. Most people are incapable of a form of honesty and trust which would allow it. Be honest. Are you religiously committed to monogamy? Is there actually a physical or emotional damage caused by intimacy with more than one partner, or is it a "moral relativity" issue to you and the upbringing, society and religion you are accustomed to? How can "serial monogamy" be so much more graceful when it often requires cheating the first to be with the second? If you honestly and faithfully move from one to the next, good on you, but why hurt one to be with another unless it is required by the blinders of the first whom will end up with another (or nobody) unless they see the other side.
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