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Show ALL Forums  > Science/philosophy  > Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?      Home login  
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 nevaagin
Joined: 4/8/2009
Msg: 76
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?Page 4 of 10    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10)
Definit[at]ly time to quit this male/female theme ... But I must disagree poster 103 ... one can still think , create new ideas and test them whilst pregnant and in fact your mind becomes strangely more alert ... I taught right up to the almost last minute and even when breast feeding , I still was designing interiors and taking my baby son to parties given by all my old uni. friends . I helped design our first house whilst pregnant with number two baby and if I hadn't been in the bush with no car , I would have taken a job if offered one .... women tend to help other women when you are young and procreating . It's possible to become involved with intensely intellectual books and conversation when pregnant , breast feeding , changing nappies ... you don't stop being an intelligent creature if you are a woman child bearing etc. Take hope from this , I hope .
 INDYSARGE
Joined: 11/2/2008
Msg: 77
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/26/2009 10:06:05 AM
We have now been able to map out all of the areas of the brain. We know what parts deal with speech, action, computation, emotion, etc. When electrodes are attached to their heads, to display the electrical activity of the different areas of the brain where thoughts are being processed, and men and women are presented with a subject, a problem, an issue, or otherwise the same thing to think about, female brains light up differently than male brains. This answers a lot of questions. For instance, when presented with a sudden problem, the part of the female brain that lights up first is the SPEECH center, but the part of the male brain that lights up first is the ACTION center. It was found that women are more likely to TALK about a problem first and men are more likely to DO something about the problem first. Among other things, it helps to explain why, when driving, women are more prone to ask directions than are men. If the wife sees a spider in the house, the first thing she will usually do is say something like, "there's a spider in the house". If the husband sees it first, the first time he will say anything is when she asks, "what did you just stomp on?".

Ok, so this doesn't address the Op's question directly, but the same research on other areas of the brain does. When given a math problem to solve, it was found that men are more likely to have only the area of the brain dealing with computation to light up, whereas women are more likely to spend part of their mental energy lighting up other areas at the same time. The conclusions they have drawn at this point are, that men generally deal better with problems that require more focus, and women generally deal better with problems that require multi-tasking. On the bottom line, neither is better than the other, but they are definitely different. Understanding this could answer a lot of questions.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 78
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/26/2009 1:40:05 PM
LOL...here's a topic to get the angry feminists ranting!

The reason is because men are better at math - period. Not because of "oppression", but because the male mind is more geared toward logic, while the female mind is geared to intuition. When I went to school, Calc 1 had about 4-5 girls in the class, all but one dropped out. In Calc 2, only one lady who was in her 60s took the class, and did quite good. By the time I got to Calc 3 - all men.

quick edit: The girl that passed in my Calc 1 class did because I tutored her. She's now a mechanical engineer at Northrup Grumman. She still sucks at math, but is a lot better at it than most women.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 79
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/26/2009 5:47:41 PM
^^^^aanecdotal? Like I need to post a study on here that woman suck at math....lol. Get real. Some things are totally obvious.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 80
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/26/2009 6:14:16 PM
You ladies shouldn't get all hurt and need to criticize just because you aren't good at math. I don't go around arguing that I can have babies, and woman are about as good at math as I am at getting pregnant.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 81
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/26/2009 9:02:13 PM
Nothing ad hominem about it. My school was only 3 examples (3 classes). You can go to any college in the country and the advanced math classes will be predominantly men. Don't take the fact that women aren't as good at math as a personal attack, it's just the way it is.

You're being illogical when you say that by pointing that out, that it means I hate women. I never said I hated the math challenged gender.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 82
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:03:23 AM

Results from 1996 national assessment tests show 17-year-old boys lead girls by only five points in math.


Yeah, cause these days 17 year olds are still only adding fractions. I'm talking about the hard mathematics, like trig and calculus. Go to any college advanced math class in the country and it's over 80% male.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 83
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:54:35 AM
^^^No, just reading this thread is reaffirming the fact that a woman's role is that of homemaker and nurturer and their minds are not naturally geared to logic or problem solving. Furthermore, there have ALWAYS been SOME women that are capable of math, just like there are some men with great feminine qualities.

If you want to think that our only differences are between our legs, you're only hurting yourself.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 84
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 10:34:27 AM
^^^blah, blah, blah....

Look, the only reason there are that many female math teachers are because women tend to be teachers more. Let's not get into socialist Britain where that number has been beefed up with satisfying quotas. I'm sure the level of math proficiency in that dismal country is dropping as a result.

I'm not a troll, just completely over with the feminism. When I meet a woman that can solve the equations I was at 17, I'll be impressed. So far, I've only met men that were as smart as me in math and for some reason a lot of the most brilliant math minds I have met have been Indian men. Maybe because they still embrace traditional gender roles and aren't trying to fool themselves about women's math abilities.

The only "men" that think women have logical abilities equal to men are the ones that haven't excelled much and are a sad result of feminism.
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 85
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 6:23:14 PM
Okay tbuddha. I'll bite.

You said this:


Like I need to post a study on here that woman suck at math....lol. Get real. Some things are totally obvious.


Then you said this:


You ladies shouldn't get all hurt and need to criticize just because you aren't good at math. I don't go around arguing that I can have babies, and woman are about as good at math as I am at getting pregnant.


And then you said this:


You can go to any college in the country and the advanced math classes will be predominantly men


Please note the word PREDOMINANTLY.

And also this:


Go to any college advanced math class in the country and it's over 80% male.


If you are going to take an all or nothing attitude, at least maintain the grace of being consistent. If ALL women suck at math, how do you explain the twenty percent?

Your position would have been more clearly stated, if you said something to the affect of "Some women suck at math", or even "The majority of women suck at math". (Not that I agree with this statement. However, if one is making such broad sweeping statements, one should support it with facts. Otherwise, stick to the the nouns and adjectives in order to support a "disclaimer" statement .)


The only "men" that think women have logical abilities equal to men are the ones that haven't excelled much and are a sad result of feminism.


Not even going to bother. I post this for reasons of posterity.

And then you have this in your profile:


I try to learn more and be a better person every day.


If you cannot see the incongruency, I cannot be bothered.

I am making a scathing reply. I don't do it often. When I am ignorant (which is often) of something, I try to ask questions so that I can learn more and be a better person.

I am not coming from a place of moral superiority, but rather from one of indignation.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 86
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History
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 6:37:00 PM
^^^^Diva I love how your mind works, and think you can out think most people in the room. I hope that he was joking. But in his "defense" he said that women were merely in math class not good at them. Before I get flamed, just pointing out what he said not agree with him. Tbuddah, I have worked with many women in Aviation. They excel in the science of medicne "nursing" prodomently which requires a lot of math for dosages. My last primary care physican was a woman. Let's get real, I would say that women are in math and sciences but, the are in the empathatic hard sciences. I would challenge anyone here to take a nursing course and hold the opinion women aren't in the sciences. Oh as I stated earlier on this thread they are in biotech, and information technologies.
 jenny_cedes
Joined: 12/14/2008
Msg: 87
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 7:40:43 PM
gadget,....youre always to the rescue.. The majority of women in society are nurses or in some of type of nursing job which requires nothing but math and science constantly and in split seconds where there is no time for analyzation til after the fact..too bad a man was the one to call this out (no offense)..its refreshing..really!

and i do love how my Divas's mind works too!!!
much love honey! My hero!
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 88
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 8:02:17 PM
Gadget...you know how I respect your opinion...

However...

He said:


When I went to school, Calc 1 had about 4-5 girls in the class, all but one dropped out. In Calc 2, only one lady who was in her 60s took the class, and did quite good. By the time I got to Calc 3 - all men.


You said:


that women were merely in math class not good at them.


I get the insinuations, but can't quite follow the reasoning...

Then you said:


just pointing out what he said not agree with him.


And then you said:


I have worked with many women in Aviation. They excel in the science of medicne "nursing" prodomently which requires a lot of math for dosages


You are kidding me...right? It doesn't take Math skills to read an M.D.'s prescription and follow it accordingly. It doesn't take "Math" skills to read a label, on a drug, and provide the correct dosage.

It takes reading skills.

You contradict yourself, by stating:


I have worked with many women in Aviation.


And then:


My last primary care physican was a woman. Let's get real, I would say that women are in math and sciences but, the are in the empathatic hard sciences.


Aviation? Hard Sciences? Empathetic sciences?


I would challenge anyone here to take a nursing course and hold the opinion women aren't in the sciences.


I agree. However, apparently A&P, (in regards to this thread) might possibly not be held as a legitimate science...


Oh as I stated earlier on this thread they are in biotech, and information technologies.


Direct contradiction. Please explain to me, how this is an empathetic science?

And Nova...I think it was deleted...I can't find it either.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 89
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 8:08:00 PM
I'm not joking. I referenced a girl I know that is now an engineer at Northrup Grumman. She was in my Calc 2 class. She was the brightest female math student I've ever known, and I had to tutor her so she could pass.

I've never met a woman with the math/logic/problem solving skills of me or my colleagues. I'm sure there are plenty of women better than a lot of men at math, but the brightest female is still not going to be as proficient as the brightest man, nor is the average female as good at math as the average man.

Don't take it so personal. It's not like guys are out there saying, "She's really hot, but, I just can't date a chick that can't even handle derivatives." We couldn't care less how good at math you are, and that's probably part of the reason women aren't good at it.
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 90
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 8:24:20 PM
Wow...I am feeling a little bit scrappy tonight...


but the brightest female is still not going to be as proficient as the brightest man


Proficient at what? Math? Science? Do you understand the distinction between the two and their mutual interdependence? And the relevance of non-gender input?


I've never met a woman with the math/logic/problem solving skills of me or my colleagues.


Somehow, I find this hard to believe...I am not saying that I am one of those women, but I have encountered women on these forums that might possibly put you to shame...and then there is my daughter who will probably take Advanced Calculus by the 11th grade...


We couldn't care less how good at math you are, and that's probably part of the reason women aren't good at it.


*Sigh*...posterity reasons...so far your logic is flawed.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 91
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History
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 8:34:36 PM
Biotech is what I would call an empahatic science because it is about finding cures to pathogens.

Empathic sciences are one that deal with healing or overall betterment of the human condition. Medicine, Biology, Chemistry (depending on branch)

An RN needs to know how to do the dosage calculations. It is part of the circula. Esp. on an IV drip. Too much too soon, can kill someone. I know this from Combat life saver. You mention Anatomy and Phys. but what about microbiology and the other science based courses. So yes math is important. Sorry you're just wrong on this one. I took a semester of nursing before comming to the realization it wasn't for me.

I was responding to what you quoted tbuddha said. Sorry, I'm not buying his arguement either. I can explain the Calc percentage. It may have nothing to do with skill but major. Heck, unless you're going into Engineering or Physics you don't need calc three. Even in Engineering it is questionable. And the fact that some girls didn't think that they could pass the course doesn't mean that they weren't good at it. It could be for various reasons. Freshmen, that wanted a math core course but didn't like it. Some had a more difficult semester then orginally planed therefore withdrew to save GPA and will retake at a later date etc. Your example doesn't hold up.

Aviation is not empathic science. Just some personal experience. I should have put that in another sentence.
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 92
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/27/2009 8:53:34 PM
Wow...I am feeling REALLY scrappy tonight!



Empathic sciences are one that deal with healing or overall betterment of the human condition. Medicine, Biology, Chemistry (depending on branch)


Don't most sciences strive for the "betterment" of human the condition? Even pure research?



An RN needs to know how to do the dosage calculations. It is part of the circula. Esp. on an IV drip. Too much too soon, can kill someone. I know this from Combat life saver. You mention Anatomy and Phys. but what about microbiology and the other science based courses. So yes math is important.


I was being facetious...



Aviation is not empathic science.


Really? How so?
 nevaagin
Joined: 4/8/2009
Msg: 93
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 1:23:41 AM
I have been reading about a woman called Vera Rubin ... yes in "Wrinkles in Time ' ... who in between breast feeding her babies 'embarked on a series of observations that would undermine orthodox views of the universe ' . She was onl y 23 when she began her observations and conclusions .Within a couple of years of the publication of her paper , dark matter had become an obssession among cosmologists . Her photo shows a pretty young woman at work and yet ...[ as I have learnt , things must have moved along further to her work ].. she did all this whilst carrying , giving birth to chidren , breast feeding them ! I'm sure you all know more about her ... but my point is that there is nothing that will stop a woman in her quest for knowledge , nothing that makes her inferior to a man ... except a silly woman who gives way to her husband or partners's undermining , often sooo subtle, of her confidence !
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 94
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History
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 3:05:52 AM
Diva,

I thought you might say that all science is for the betterment of humanity to which I will tell you an old joke.

Whats the difference between a mechanical and a civil engineer?
A mechanical engineer makes bombs.
A civil engineer makes targets.

So there you go not all science is purely good. But what I meant having a immdiate impact on the individual. It goes to a womans motherly instincts. This is not true in all cases.

Aviation is just merely getting a machine in the air. It is a neutral science.

Oh Einstein's wife helped him prefect the theory of realitivity. Both the general and special.
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 95
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 4:18:41 AM
Thank you exo and jenny! I send you both much love! (You too gadget!)

Jenny, when are you coming to Winston so we can hang?


I thought you might say that all science is for the betterment of humanity to which I will tell you an old joke.


I thought you might pick up the fact that I used quotation marks for "betterment", to convey its dubious meaning...


So there you go


Do not "there you go" me, in that tone of typing. (Notice the use of quotation marks. Now ask your self "why?")

Thank you for the clarification on Aviation being a neutral science...

Gadge, your points are becoming convoluted and I am starting to lose sight of what your stance is.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 96
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History
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 5:50:25 AM
After painfully reading so many sexist and misogynistic observations in this thread, it is clear that it is a microcosm of the real world of academia, and illustrates how men are seemingly duty bound to slap "uppity" women down. It's only been in the last century that women were allowed to vote and move toward equality in our culture. The glass ceiling remains as the good ole boy network goes into overtime when threatened with too much equality.

A friend of mine, a PHD in Anthropology, was recently denied tenure for the crime of reporting sexual harrassment in her department. Charges against her were manufactured, Homeland Security and the FBI were called in to investigate her, and a concerted campaign by the good old boys proved effective at ruining her career, making her lose her home, and having to move. It did not matter that HS and the FBI exonerated her, that a peer review exhonerated her, and colleagues gave glowing testimonials. She would not be forgiven for bringing sexual harrassment to light. Her case is all too common in male dominated academia.

The Knoxville chapter of the American Association of University Professors) in 2001 noted:

“Women are underrepresented at almost all ranks and in almost all academic units. Women comprise only 29% of all UT faculty, and only about 20% of these are tenured. There are approximately 358 women and 857 men. The gap is greatest at the full professor level where on the UTK campus women hold only 66 of the 476 full professor positions. While there are slightly more women associate professors (n=98), any trend toward increased representation seems questionable given there are currently only 77 women assistant professors. In a stepwise progression, it is these 77 women assistant professors who will, hopefully, become the full professors of the university a decade hence. This constitutes barely a replacement rate. Given the pervasive imbalance in numbers, almost every major career milestone for women is largely defined and evaluated by men.”
 techgirl27
Joined: 9/5/2005
Msg: 97
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History
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/28/2009 4:50:31 PM
I'm about to be one of them. In fact I'm having to brush up on my math this weekend for a qual. this coming week. Got into grad school for a computer science program. Maybe I'll be able to start shooting at the glass ceiling pretty soon? The generation ahead of me is full of looming retirements.........
 freakshow89
Joined: 6/25/2009
Msg: 98
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 2:12:53 PM
I've noticed that in my college, most female math and Science majors were foreign students. They usually came from China, India and Eastern European countries like Bulgaria and Lithuania. In the US, I'd blame the HS education system. High schools here are so easy, in comparision to China, England, France. The teachers literally spoon feed you, you get lesson plans and handouts until the 12th grade. Its pathetic really. Sure, the students get hands on experience with projects, but it is so watered down. They get insane amount of help from the teachers. This is great for the smarter, brilliant students because they were smart to begin with. But the average to poor students lose out in the bargain. This is because when College happens, it is nothing like HS. There, you have to take your own notes, do your reading before hand, solve your own problems, no teacher will spoon feed you, you can't go to the professor for silly reasons.

Sadly, most girls here are not interested in math and science to begin with and this just makes easier for them to pick a different major in college. If this wasn't the case why would the majority of previous pre-med female student change their major to psychology in her sophomore year. I say HS needs to be a lot tougher than what it is now so that they don't have to face cold hard reality in College.
 hungry_joe
Joined: 6/24/2006
Msg: 99
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History
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 3:44:13 PM
Diva, I missed the qutotation marks. The point is there are women in science. If not what we consider tradtionally science. I would also, state that there is no inate ablity of either gender to preform mathmatical calcuations.

I'm on a borrow computer so it may be a bit till I can respond further.
 divagreen
Joined: 9/26/2008
Msg: 100
Why aren't there more women involved in math and science?
Posted: 8/29/2009 8:00:16 PM

Diva, I missed the qutotation marks.


I "knew" you would!


The point is there are women in science.





If not what we consider tradtionally science.



Gadget, meet Marie Curie. Marie Curie meet gadget. He has been anxious to make your acquaintance.

Oh, I know, her direction in the treatment of cancers can be arguably an empathetic science. But just because she can multitask, does not undermine her achievements in "traditional science".


I would also, state that there is no inate ablity of either gender to preform mathmatical calcuations.


All this is does is, "out" you as a REALLY NICE GUY.

I am not being sarcastic, I am being sincere.

He is really, and truly, a decent gentleman.
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