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 Worbug
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 51
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal AliensPage 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)
I have no doubt what so ever that a lot of ILLEGAL ALIENS work hard. My problem is them flying under the radar and not contributing to the system like everyone else.

They are willing to work for substandard wages, which in turn, drives down wages for skilled people because companies are willing to say hey, work for this amount or I can f hire people who will, and we know who they are talking about.

I own a Sewer and drain company here in Chicago. I pay my employees very well. They are skilled and provide quality service. There is a new company that just opened and are flooding the market with prices so low, there is no way they can be paying their employees proper wages, none the less, paying all the other expenses required of a legit business. All of their laborers are mexicans that can barely speak english, if any. Sure great for the consumer who doesn't mind using slave laborers, not so good for the people who have invested loads of many in equipment and pay the apropriate wage, Workmans Comp and other related expenses so everyone can enjoy a quality of life, not just the company owner.

So when you moved here as an immigrant during a more "Decent Time", did you go through the proper channels LEGALY, or where you ILLEGAL flying under the radar not contributing.
 PROTON67
Joined: 4/26/2012
Msg: 52
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/19/2012 6:54:08 PM
Thieves should not be allowed to keep what they have stolen. Period.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 53
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/20/2012 12:51:40 AM

But I'm not going to blame the people with the least amount of culpability.


Why should anyone who purposely violates U.S. laws not be culpable for it? Every nation on earth has a perfect right to defend its sovereignty by regulating how foreign nationals enter or remain on its territory.


He did it because rich business owners and political donors wanted cheap source of labor to compete against hard working Americans.


That's only your speculation, supported by absolutely nothing.


Year after year, they demonize these people as if they were less than human


Who do you mean by "they?" I haven't heard reasonable people calling illegal aliens demons, or suggesting they are subhuman. I doubt you have either.


then refuse to enforce or make laws on immigration that could easily fix the problem.


It is this President who is refusing to enforce federal immigration laws. What immigration laws that don't already exist, specifically, would you have Congress enact?


Go after the employers, make them pay fines and expenses of a working visa system.


Once again, you show how disingenuous you are on this subject. You raised that same phony claim a long time ago, and I pointed out that much of Arizona SB 1070 was specifically designed to prevent employers of all kinds from hiring illegal aliens. I even described in detail the e-verification and record-keeping requirements various sections of that law imposed, and the range of penalties for violating them.

The very things you are claiming no one will do had already been done--and you know it. There they were, in a modern, comprehensive, extremely well-drafted state law. And what happened? Your President sued Arizona because it dared to require state officials to enforce federal immigration laws--the very thing Congress had repeatedly, for years, asked states to help federal authorities do. He *does not want* those federal laws enforced, because he has the same disdain for this country's laws and Constitution and people that you've made very clear, many times, that you have.


Deport those who aren't working legally.


That's probably several million people. It sounds like you're trying to demonize them--as if they were less than human. Shocking to see anyone inciting such hatred toward other human beings.


a working visa system.


What on earth are you talking about? This country has had a "working visa system" for a long time.


Make those jobs safer so that Americans will do those jobs without worrying about dying of dehydration or being doused in pesticides when they're working out in the fields.


More hackneyed leftist agitprop. I suppose those mean capitalist agribiz tycoons have bought off all the OSHA inspectors, too. (I can just see them, smoking cigars and riding around in black Lincolns as they laugh about how they'll need a couple more Mexicans to replace the ones who bit the dust in the fields today.) Do you know of any farmworkers in this country who have died recently of dehydration on the job because their employer denied them adequate water? Didn't think so.

As for pesticides, they're liable to get a lot more dousing back home in Mexico than anywhere in this country. Whatever Mexican agencies may regulate such things, you can be damn sure their standards aren't even close to being as demanding as the federal and state standards here.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 54
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/20/2012 6:33:40 AM

Fast forward twenty years, California is BILLIONS in debt, the Mexicans do NOT assimilate and in fact are HOSTILE and whine about imaginary historical grievances while marching with mexican flags on AMERICAN soil....don't get me started.

Too late, you already have started to whine about imaginary historical grievances.
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 55
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/20/2012 8:03:45 AM
@ PROTON67:


Thieves should not be allowed to keep what they have stolen. Period.


absolutely correct!

thus all you descendants of illegal European immigrants in the 17th-18th & 19th century, who committed ARMED ROBBERY- stole land by force from the native Indians who were already in North America, committed planned genocide against them , and who stole people'/s lives from them to serve as slaves, should be forced to give all that back!

right? right?? --oh no I'm sure you don't want ti to go 'that far' THOSE people "SHOULD be allowed to keep what they STOLE -let's be 'reasonable' right?

"white makes right"/'might makes right', right?
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 56
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/20/2012 9:08:31 AM
*

bladder

ma man. why continue to waffle the indefwafflish? i have mentioned before and will
do again about kennewick man.

now the neo liberal windbaggery front just put head in sand and arse in air and do the ostrich
because this story blows their world apart.

now unless you or any of the neo liberal windbag front (or any self proclaimed intellectual giants) can refute this part of history then looks like the white gadgie was there before the indian gadgie.

The Controversy
Public interest, debate, and controversy began when an independent archaeologist, working on contract to the Kennewick coroner, decided the bones were ancient but might not be Native American. He described them as "Caucasoid" and sent a piece of bone to a laboratory to be dated. The final date indicated an age of 9,000 years, making Kennewick Man one of the oldest and most complete skeletons found in the Americas. Subsequent tests of other bone samples showed the skeleton to be somewhere between 5650 and 9510 years old. But if it is true that these human remains are thousands of years old, and are not Native American, then who was Kennewick Man? This question raised a number of other questions that have put Kennewick Man "on trial" in the public eye.

http://www.burkemuseum.org/kman/

the geezer is the spitting image (in a sort of he looks a wee bit like) patrick stewart when he played
captain picard in star trek.

* this is a night and fog post and may vanish anytime
 Worbug
Joined: 4/23/2009
Msg: 57
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/20/2012 11:47:16 AM
"Sure, I do, and as an immigrant that had to go through the proper process as well as being a law abiding tax payer, I also resent it too."

If you resent it so much then go back to where you came from. Easy enough to fix!!!

So what is it you resent, having to become a US citizen LEGALY or having to be a law biding tax payer,. If you are not a LEGAL US Citizen the you need to GO AWAY, I do not care where, just go away and rape some other country. Go to canada, they seem to have a bleeding heart for the ILLEGALS.

If I was to sneak into the theater without paying, I would get tossed out, I am not LEGALY allowed to be there. If an ilegal Alien sneaked into your house because it was better than where they were living, would you let them stay and then buy them grocies and pay for their gas and electric, etc, I doubt it very much, so quit your grandstanding just because you had to do it legaly.

Instead of asking why they should not be able to do as they please and just come to America and live and work and contribute nothing, the question I ask is, why don't the Mexican people fix their own corrupt government in Mexico and become a Productive Country in the world.

Funny, imigrants think America Is so great they can't wait to get here, willing to sneak in here, that once they are here, they seem to think they need to change our countires laws.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 58
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/20/2012 12:34:42 PM
worburg

c'mon mate, are you trying to tell me that the neo liberal windbag front will not
ask someone who employs folk and -pays the going rate to do work for them?

surely not. surely they will not employ illegal immigrants who work slave hours for slave pay?

you are not saying that the neo liberal windbag front exploit immigrant workers to get work done
on the cheap?

i am shocked and horrified as well as being sooooooo upset i cannot laugh at the irony of
windbags using cheap slave labour giving them a pittance so they can salve their
neo liberal windbag front concience(feel free to ridicule the spelling i am after all a product
of comprehensive education and i am not a (self) righteous intellectual)

windbags exploiting folk for cheap slave labour. who would have thunk it?

but amnesty for all, let the NEW citizens get their wages undercut by new illegals lol

eeee the working folk just waiting on retribution time
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 59
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/20/2012 11:41:31 PM
thinking
you wrote
''And I get extreme pleasure in the fact that even as a late arriver, I have just as much right as you to stay and oppose your neanderthal beliefs....hell yeah, baby!!! I even had more offsprings, and they had offspings so I can dilute your backward ideology at election time, oh, how sweet that is. ;)''

''too dumb'' ''knuckledraggingness,'' ''neanderthal beliefs'' ''your backward ideology''
lol how hate filled, how bitter, how nasty

how well........
liberal

no one does hate and bitterness better than those of a liberal persuasion. from that one post alone
you show that you have no time for anyones views that do not line up with yours.
as for donating time and money to change things to your liking is that not what happens on ALL sides?
i dont see that the shermans have much of a choice come this election but i shall root for
the mittser just because it pisses the (self) righteous off.

now this is in the uk. a small island. WE are overun by illegals. OUR wages are driven down by cheap labour but YOUR uk equivelant just does not give a toss as long as THEY get what THEY want.

Aa many as 947,000 illegal immigrants could be living in Britain, more than double a previous Home Office estimate.
A study by the London School of Economics found evidence of a massive surge in the illegal population since 2001.
Their estimate includes hundreds of thousands of failed asylum seekers, visa overstayers and children born to illegal immigrant parents.
Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1160642/Number-illegal-immigrants-Britain-nearing-1million.html#ixzz249yYOfEu
 OutofControlMan
Joined: 12/22/2011
Msg: 60
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/21/2012 7:48:45 AM

A boatload of Cubans land on shore, they get to stay. A boatload of Haitians land next to them, they
are sent back. There should be no freebies. All Immigrants should go thru the process


was it not the allegedly 'right-wing, conservative' Ronald Reagan who had this policy implemented to play games with or one-up Fidel Castro, saying in effect: "my pen1s is larger than yours, Fidel" ?

but then that's what so many wars are really about..who's better-hung.

politicians can be soo childish & petty, no?
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 62
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/21/2012 1:26:36 PM
Talk about contradictions,,,
I see a huge opportunity here for those in the legal field.
People come into this country and bring their small children, basically making their children into criminals , through no fault of the child. T he child grows up with no nationality at all.
I have heard of children suing their parents for various reasons, so why not sue the parents for causing them to become a persona non grata? This could be a huge economic boost to those kids, and lots of lawyers who have been displaced by downsizing of the economy.
I think a few well-publicized legal actions will wake up those parents to what they are doing to the lives of their children.
 vlad dracul
Joined: 4/30/2009
Msg: 63
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Posted: 8/21/2012 1:48:13 PM
oh dear oh dear

''you conservatives''!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

now THAT is an insult i can tell you. i nearly spilt my wreck the hoose juice.
alas i could be described manys a thing but conservative
is not one of them.

but you frankfurt school of thoughters do well in cowing folk i will give you that much. but
some of us in this old world are immune to the frankenfurters and their list of pc insults
http://www.schillerinstitute.org/fid_91-96/921_frankfurt.html

calling someone dumb smacks of elitism and (self proclaimed) intellectualism. that patronising
smug 'there there leave the thinking to us we are more ahem intellectual' lol

as for outrage lol oh dear lets wait on a nice juicy thread about something that the windbag front
are up in arms about then see who gets hysterical lol

double standard abound amongst the windbaggers, this was in todays daily telegraph in the uk

Joe Biden's comments are proof of a double standard in US politics
Anybody in polite company who still wonders why so many Republican-minded Americans are drawn to alternative media outlets like Fox News or Glenn Beck as their information source need only look at the current episode with the vice president for an answer. What is certain to unfold in this case is a prime example of the double standard that politicians – and much of the media – apply to matters of race.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/journalists/the-daily-beast/9478952/Joe-Bidens-comments-are-proof-of-a-double-standard-in-US-politics.html

aw if you want to hit me feel free and my mates can know as well, they might even bring me big girls blouse
type tissues?

so i shall continue crying and windbaggers can continue shrieking like a shrieking shrieky type thing because ordinary
working folk laugh at and despise the forces of windbaggery and all they represent

(i would offer more support for your view if the amnestied illegals and in fact ANY illegal was allowed to take public sector jobs (not at the bottom end of public sector workers but the managers and middle and upper management)
because its only fair that the windbaggers lose their perks as well eh? and hey your councils would save millions because the amnestied and illegals will work longer hours for less money and none of the perks.
councils could then employ diversity outreach co ordinators for the minimum wage. everyone is happy. well apart from the windbaggers who lose their jobs. but if its good enough us normal folk losing jobs then who cares about windbaggers? but i can lend them tissues when they cry as i have plenty)

toodle pip
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 64
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/21/2012 2:07:38 PM
Let's return to the original topic. I don't know what reason there is to expect people who have already shown their disrespect for the United States by coming here in intentional violation of its immigration laws to feel any allegiance to it once they are here. They are scofflaws, here to take as much as they can--and on the whole they take many times more than what they contribute. On average, each illegal alien represents a net drain on the American economy of about $25,000 each year. In California, just giving each child of illegal immigrants a free public education costs taxpayers about $11,000 per year.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 65
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/21/2012 2:31:22 PM
On average, each illegal alien represents a net drain on the American economy of about $25,000 each year. In California, just giving each child of illegal immigrants a free public education costs taxpayers about $11,000 per year.

Funny how when some people post stats, they fail to provide a source to those numbers, but I guess when you are just making stuff up it is best not to do so, that way you may avoid getting called on your bullshit.

Though interesting of no mention of the billions of tax dollars that are lost due to millionaires working the system.


Or the fact that because of Obamas policies and massive reduction of illegals that many farmers will have to leave crops in the field thus causing a price increase.*


*California Farm Labor Shortage 'Worst It's Been, Ever'
Published: Monday, 20 Aug 2012 | 1:17 PM ET

There's a different sort of drought plaguing California, the nation's largest farm state. It's $38 billion agricultural sector is facing a scarcity of labor.

Migrant workers weed lettuce seed plants at an organic produce farm near Fresno, California.
"This year is the worst it's been, ever," said Craig Underwood, who farms everything from strawberries to lemons to peppers, carrots, and turnips in Ventura County.

Some crops aren't get picked this season due to a lack of workers.

"We just left them in the field," he said.

The Western Growers Association told CNBC its members are reporting a 20 percent drop in laborers this year. Stronger border controls are keeping workers from crossing into the U.S. illegally, and the current guest worker program is not providing enough bodies.

Read more at: http://www.cnbc.com/id/48725145
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 66
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/21/2012 2:44:47 PM
EZ solution, offer higher pay.
Stop the phony manipulation, millions of people are looking for work.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 67
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Posted: 8/21/2012 7:56:41 PM
Funny how when some people post stats, they fail to provide a source to those numbers, but I guess when you are just making stuff up it is best not to do so, that way you may avoid getting called on your bullshit.


Yes--how funny. But what's *really* funny is to see you have the gall to accuse anyone of spreading baloney (The barnyard language is more your speed, so I'll leave it to you.) When you question my honesty--or anyone else's--you are standing on very shaky ground.

You once cited as fact an account of the heavy-handed arrest of an American Muslim professor after 9/11 that you found on a jihadist website. When I went there, I noticed that the jihadists' lurid tale of how the mean U.S. authorities had abused this poor, innocent Muslim sounded strange. The name of the college where he was supposedly arrested didn't sound quite right, for one thing.

So I did some research, and I discovered that none of what you claimed had ever happened. The whole account was imaginary, with false names and false events. It had been written to provide colorful, provocative material for a college courtroom debate competition--and then cleverly lifted by your fellow America-haters, word for word, so they could "report" it as a real event on their jihadist website.

And yet when I pointed that out, showing you had helped the jihadists slander my country by spreading their propaganda, you lacked the integrity to admit you had been caught trying to pass off their lie as the truth. And you still have not. So now that you accuse me of making up facts, I will let everyone here judge how much respect your accusation deserves.

I stand by the facts I wrote. They come from a thorough, carefully designed study carried out a few years ago by two researchers at a reputable university--Princeton, as I recall. If anyone else is interested in the details, they can contact me personally and I will try to find them.
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 68
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/22/2012 12:51:45 AM
^^^^The study also predicted that most of the illegal immigrants, unlike the people in earlier waves of immigration from Europe and Asia, lacked even the basic skills needed to advance to a point where they would become a net asset. If so, the legitimate residents of California will *never* recover what they spend to support these people. Money aside, continuing to let foreign nationals violate U.S. immigration laws with no consequences--or even worse, rewarding the violation--makes a mockery of those laws and undermines our sovereignty.

Congress should act right away to prevent something that is causing enormous damage to this country--automatic citizenship for children born here to illegal alien parents. It exists only because of Wong Kim Ark, a case the Court wrongly decided in the 1880's (the Court had gotten it right a decade or so earlier, in Elk v. Wilkins.) There is a very strong argument that the Citizenship Clause of the 14th Amendment was never meant to confer citizenship by birth on the children of aliens unlawfully in the United States. Automatic citizenship by birth is a relic of old England, meant to ensure the loyalty of subjects (partly to ensure their availability as soldiers) to their sovereign.

What the authors of the 14th Amendment said and wrote in the 1860's shows they never meant to perpetuate birth citizenship as a flat rule. They apparently wanted to keep the exceptions to it that our law had traditionally made for certain groups, such as Indians not subject to U.S. taxes and children born here to foreign diplomats. I don't believe that anything in the Constitution obligates us to keep committing slow national suicide by making a citizen of every child born here to foreign nationals who have violated U.S. laws by sneaking across our borders. Just the cost to the fifty states of giving them all a free public education is tens--probably many tens--of billions of dollars each year.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 69
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/22/2012 4:36:22 AM

I stand by the facts I wrote. They come from a thorough, carefully designed study carried out a few years ago by two researchers at a reputable university--Princeton, as I recall. If anyone else is interested in the details, they can contact me personally and I will try to find them.

FYI: They are not facts unless you can back them up, so you stand by nothing more than speculation at best.

You also seemed to fail to provide the saving to the US tax payer when people who are considered illigal are not longer conisdered illiagal and also how much they do contribute to the ecomony both with retail sales and taxes collected, but hey do not let the facts get in your way of your spew.





Just the cost to the fifty states of giving them all a free public education is tens--probably many tens--of billions of dollars each year.

Tens of billions - Educating people with the result being they get jobs and pay taxes.

Hundreds of Billions - Money lost anuanlly due to Bush tax cuts.

Ergo: it does not even register on the map.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 70
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/22/2012 8:09:26 AM
^^^^^^
Aristotle ; You seem to have all the right ideas, so I'd like you to illustrate them, if you would. Suppose we send you a small number of undocs, say 30 to 50 thousand, as a small sample, you feed them, educate them, take care of any health issues,arrange for employment, you know, take care of their needs, and then you can show us the error of our ways when you arrive at all the profits.
If you're super-good at this, don't fret, because they will tell their friends, and you will get many more thousands in your group. I'm sure your neighbors will appreciate your cleverness, doncha think?
Anyway, we are anxious to get this under way, we don't need your permission, they will just show up at your place, just like they do down south in the States.
Bonne chance :)
 matchlight
Joined: 1/31/2009
Msg: 71
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Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/22/2012 10:34:07 AM

BUT they mostly work for cash


Much of which they send back to Mexico, something our banks make it easy and convenient for them to do.


I think that you should lobby to open the borders to Canada, and see what type of a reaction you would get from most of your fellow Canadians.


They DO seem to have a lot of wide open spaces up there. And it would give them one more reason to envy and resent Americans.
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 72
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/22/2012 10:57:50 AM

Aristotle ; You seem to have all the right ideas, so I'd like you to illustrate them, if you would. Suppose we send you a small number of undocs, say 30 to 50 thousand, as a small sample, you feed them, educate them, take care of any health issues,arrange for employment, you know, take care of their needs, and then you can show us the error of our ways when you arrive at all the profits...

To illustrate my point it would be to allow people who are already in Canada and contributing to society to stay for up to two more years without fear of deportations.

To expand it beyond that like you have shows you really have no idea what the legislation is all about.

You guys go on about people not from the US voicing an opinion on topics related to the US but you do not even seem to understand the your own legislation at hand, but to bring you up to speed Canada does have a population of illegal immigrants most of which are based in large cities like Toronto and estimates put them anywhere from 200K to 500K and Canada has looked at a similar program that would actually not just give these people temporary status like the one in the US but grant them resident status.

So either you have no idea what you are talking about or you are trying to hide your real reasons to be against this.




If you're super-good at this, don't fret, because they will tell their friends, and you will get many more thousands in your group. I'm sure your neighbors will appreciate your cleverness, doncha think?
Anyway, we are anxious to get this under way, we don't need your permission, they will just show up at your place, just like they do down south in the States.
Bonne chance :)

Sweet, tell them the key is under the mat and to use the back door and do not pee in the pool, as I have to go to Seattle for a few days.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Hey Pau...

The right thing to do? According to whom? ......... YOU? No thanks. There are very good solid reasons for the imigration laws we have. There is/was a very good system in place that used to work very well. I laid it out many times. YOUR opinion of what is and isn't correct amounts to just what it is, and that is hot air. If you want to live in country with no borders, and allow any and everybody to move there........ have at it, BUT, you don't live in this country.
Congratulations on your exaggeration.

This is about allowing people who are already in the US and who are contributing to the economy to stay for up to two more years.

It is not about opening up the boarders and letting everyone in. In the future you may want to try to stay with the topic at hand when addressing your concerns as that way people might start to think you have a valid opinion and not just ranting about stuff that is not related.
 GreenThumbz18
Joined: 4/25/2012
Msg: 73
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/22/2012 11:23:22 AM
Aristotle -
Hey man, thanks for the heads up-




Non English posting removed as per the posted rules - please re-post in English

Thank You

...
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 74
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/22/2012 11:23:54 AM

IF you can answer what is going to happen to them in 2 years, then you might have a bit a validity for your position, but clearly you haven't even thought of, or considered that, which is the most important issue.

If they are still working then they will be able to stay, though they will not be able to obtain citizenship. ergo nothing changes.

So please explain why it is good idea to spend tax payer money to kick people out who are contributing to society and paying taxes?
 Aristotle_Amadopolis
Joined: 12/8/2011
Msg: 75
Naturalized Citizenship For Illegal Aliens
Posted: 8/22/2012 12:14:41 PM

I did, but obviously you either didn't read it or failed to understand it. The cost of illegal aliens is very high, a fact you seem to love to ignore, you only see what they "contribute".

That is because this legislation only deals with those that do contribute and still kicks the ones out that don't.

What part of that do you not understand?



...Fine, balance that against what they COST........ give me your source for backing up your allegation that the illegal aliens are a net positive fiscally to society, and then you might have a point.

Common sense dictates that when someone is a working tax paying member of society they have a net positive contribution.

Unless you can show data that supports your claim of a net drain on the ecomony with regards to those that are acting in accordance with the conditions laid out in the bill.




The second thing you fail to realize is that doing this only encourages others to come here illegally. Once you realize what the word "ILLEGAL" means, you might understand........... maybe.

Yes, because living in abject poverty is not reason enough.

Though using your logic I guess you do not want the economy to succeed as the promise of jobs would just encourage more people to want to come there.
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