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 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 194
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What are your messaging ratio's?Page 9 of 11    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11)
MrEvil: Your success is an interesting study. I remember when I finally broke down and had a profile review done, the most repeated advice I received was "Get rid of the pics that include women!" And I've actually seen quite a few female profiles in which, out of the blue, they criticize guys for having profiles that included pics with other women (in fact, the last woman in my "Viewed Me" list said that at the end of her profile -- I had not viewed her first, making me wonder if she wrote that indirectly to me). Frankly, I think any woman who would snub a guy for having women in his profile pics (within reason) has jealousy issues I don't want to deal with, but nevertheless, since I had been on here 2.5 years by that point with no success, I took down all my pics that included other women (they were all friends, relatives or co-workers and listed as such, no former dates). Net result over 6 months? Either less first contact emails or pretty much almost the same as before (which = nearly none).

But anyway, you have a SINGLE picture of you and THREE women. And you have a 60% response rate and have dated 10 women since rejoining only 4 months ago!

How would you interpret these results? Well, I, for starters, am sure it probably does matter to some women, but apparently not anywhere near enough to hinder most guys' ability to get a date. I just find it interesting that you say you learned "what works" on this site, yet "members of opposite sex in the pictures" is probably the #2 thing that's preached against (after negativity in the profile), you are breaking that supposed cardinal rule and still "rakin' 'em in." I obeyed the rule (and many others) for 6 months and got nothing to show for it.

I'm just saying, what works for person A doesn't necessarily work for person B. We are in completely different age groups, completely different ethnic groups, completely different height ranges, completely different cities (though, I did live within an hour of the ATL half of my life). It's possible that Brad Pitt Jr. could come on here, throw up a profile that says nothing except, "You know you want me, b----iatch" with pictures that show him surrounded by harems of bikini-clad women and get 50 (positive) emails a day vs. my one email every six months for doing everything that was recommended by POF "experts." You can shoot yourself in the foot, no doubt, and women have plenty enough options on here not to have to allow a guy any slack, but I'm still pretty sure the two most important factors in a guy's success on here are: physical characteristics and freakin' luck.

(That said, I have received out-of-the-blue compliments on my current creative profile, but that's all they were -- they didn't want to date me. So I mean, if you just want EMAILS... nobody's going to DATE you because of your profile, they are going to date you because they find you attractive. They might NOT date you because of your profile if it's retarded. Like the Brad Pitt Jr. example: if he had a good profile, he'd probably get 100 emails a day!)

BA: Thanks! Moderators often do not agree...
 cdukshnow
Joined: 3/19/2010
Msg: 197
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/25/2010 5:41:38 AM
I've sent a ridiculous amount, my standards vary dramatically. My responses are probably 10%. I've maybe gotten 2 non solicited messages.

Thom
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 198
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/25/2010 7:19:24 AM

So I mean, if you just want EMAILS... nobody's going to DATE you because of your profile, they are going to date you because they find you attractive. They might NOT date you because of your profile if it's retarded.


Hackings, perhaps you are not getting the right type of advice. Like Mr Evil, I had several photos, that were with women. Just about every person I have gone out with ask me what was up with that. I told them that it happen to be that the best photos were taken at company events by better photographers than me, and yes they were with women. Also, what women find attractive is not necessarily an issue of looks. MrEvil says that he has a success rate of 60 percent, and says that the secret is crafting a good email. On the several occasions that I used this site and others for dating, I went from having almost one in a hundred, to about 80% response. And the secret was that, craft a good email that is different, but mainly that it starts in the middle of a conversation. Also notice that MrEvil's profile is not about all his virtues, but about his attitude about life. That is much more intoxicating to women than saying how great you are.
In the end, a key element is that you need to stand outside of the typical box, but come across as a real person.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 201
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/25/2010 4:52:27 PM
I've had a number of poems published, won a few short story awards, breezed through a dozen literature/composition/creative writing classes, wrote film critiques for 7 years, produce promotional pieces for my TV station, received recognition multiple times from the Oscars' screenplay competition and crafted the script for a movie that has so far won 6 film festival awards. Not to mention, my mother was an English instructor.

If anyone on this entire site knows how to write a "good email," it should probably be me.

I'm not suggesting I've said the right thing every time or that I haven't shot myself in the foot once or twice. But given the many hundreds of introductory emails I've written on POF, in every style and format I've ever been taught both in academics and on POF, you would think that I would have at least written more than a couple correctly.

Wait, isn't this the same thread where some guy claimed he got 40 dates from just saying "A non-generic email from a non-generic guy"? Yeah, well, I actually saw him say that months ago and tried that a few dozen times and didn't get a single response from it. It worked for him because he's almost certainly in the top 10% of desirability among guys on this site. There are many things he could have said that would have worked. But obviously it's quite possible to be in the top 10% and end up with 1 response out of every hundred because you're saying the wrong things, as was the case with you, OutMind. But I'm pretty sure at this point that saying the right things aren't going to get you out of the bottom 1%. At least not in my age range in my heavily populated area.

Markus says it himself right on the front page: some people are undateable. I would say I am the POF posterchild for that statement, except I have certainly succeeded in other venues over the years (though not very easily given my bottom 1% characteristics), so I am simply undateable by POF standards.
 briargate
Joined: 8/18/2008
Msg: 204
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/26/2010 8:20:17 AM
Mine is pretty much 1:1, but then I am sending messages to people on the forums. Those of us on the forums I would say are much more likely to message each other, having already gotten some sense of what the recipient is like from reading their posts.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 205
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/26/2010 8:43:30 AM

All I can say is it's all about the content of the message, and your personality.

I agree 100% with this.

While I was still single I probably received more first contacts than I sent and I replied to all of them, except those that were 4 or 5 words of nonsense.

Write a compelling profile and most of the work is done for you... Carry that through to writing a compelling first contact message (to only those who you really are interested in), and a 1:1 ration is not unusual.

Last summer I gave my old room mate a hand writing his profile, he's done quite well here, ...he even has to hide his profile from time to time because he can't keep up with his inbox. For a while in the fall, he had a different girl come home with him every few days, in spite of the fact that he was honest about not being interested in a long-term relationship.

For those with high "read-unread/delete" numbers, ...don't assume that "it's them", ...do something about it.

Those of us on the forums I would say are much more likely to message each other, having already gotten some sense of what the recipient is like from reading their posts.

This too, and if I think about it, ...I can't recall a single time over the years that I didn't receive a reply to a first contact I sent to a forum user.

I only sent one first contact last summer, ...we live together now.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 211
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/26/2010 3:24:09 PM
I kinda doubt that just because less men might email, or email less..that it will change what specific women are looking for..something that I have noticed is that many women, especially in the older age groups..aren't in any hurry..if it takes longer, it takes longer..or , maybe it doesn't happen at all...I can live with that..it appears most men can't...what I'm looking for hasn't changed with going online..the same things that attracted me before still do...

Are you seriously suggesting that women would be more willing to settle for less than what they want ( and by default more of you guys complaining), just because there is less immediate choice?

I email guys first..but, only ones who really get my interest..that is a difference..men seem to play the numbers far more than women do..and many emails is quantity..not quality..half are guys just screwing around in some way or another...on my pay site for instance..I get probably an average of 100 emails/flirts a month..some months its several hundred for some reason..I'm lucky if even one a day is seriously interested in talking, or is compatible with me...on here, I average a few a day...more if I am online a lot ( usually posting or on the forums...), maybe one or two a week are suitable..at least 30% or so are distance disqualified...

The upper level of attractiveness probably has a lot of more choice and maybe that has affected their way of choosing...but, they are a minority to begin with...and are probably more likely to be picky..because they can..the more you have to offer the other sex..the more you can be choosy about who you date..not fair, but, just human nature..and the way it works...

Online is a representation of the way male/female behaviors in dating have generally always been..in real life, the people with the most to offer get the most attention..men are still primarily the pursuers, and I don't see that changing that much , even with "equality", because it is partly hard wiring ..their biological drives...

My opinion is to try and make the most of what your advantages are, and find something unique or special to capitalize on..rather than trying to change a system you have no control over...

It's what I do, because I have disadvantages of my own..yet, still get enough interest to to have some choice...
 EGJV
Joined: 9/13/2008
Msg: 217
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/26/2010 5:28:30 PM

So you guys can say we are bragging or lying?
Also not jealous of the women in your profiles


Emotional female response. Guys in this thread are interested in numerical stats, not in your ego.
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 219
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/26/2010 6:05:52 PM
What your letter or profile says is irrelevant, women don't care, none of it matters and it's all a waste of time.


You really need to can it with your extreme bitter, and utter nonsense. Fyi, I couldn't give a flying fig what other women on POF are doing. I know for a fact, that if a man has good looks, but a crappy profile, I will NOT respond to his message, no matter how attractive he is.

I've passed up one too many profiles of good looking men, because their profiles overall looked like utter crap. If their profiles weren't looking like crap, I felt with some of them, we didn't have much in common.

Not every woman bases her overall opinion on physical attraction, and looks. I go beyond that.

You've been shot down so much on this site, that you come off as a woman bashing, bitter, asswipe.

Fyi, I don't get a ton of emails per day on this site, which is just fine by me. I do just dandy with the 3-5 emails I receive per day. Racy photos and all.
 EGJV
Joined: 9/13/2008
Msg: 220
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/26/2010 6:15:49 PM

Fyi, I don't get a ton of emails per day on this site, which is just fine by me. I do just dandy with the 3-5 emails I receive per day. Racy photos and all.


That IS a ton for any average guy here, and if you don't go by looks over everything then you're an exception. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 222
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/26/2010 6:36:21 PM

That IS a ton for any average guy here, and if you don't go by looks over everything then you're an exception. Not that there's anything wrong with that, just saying.


I still think you guys are assuming it is always about looks..which leads me to believe you don't think you are attractive? And you are projecting...Because, read/deleted has no explanation why...you guys aren't there in her head or watching her..how can you know what she is thinking? And you refuse to believe any women who tells you it isn't so...

Sure, some women, and most men actually, go by looks at first glance..and everyone only is interested in those they find visually appealing in some way ( do you guys email women you aren't attracted to?)..but, I know more women who put more stock in who a guy is than what he looks like..or what they have in common...or, how articulate he is..and on and on..we prefer men read our profiles and like more than how we look...why wouldn't we do the same?
 nmaccari
Joined: 3/29/2008
Msg: 228
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/26/2010 9:22:08 PM
To me online dating is almost like some weird alter-reality. The amount of attention I receive in real life from women is way, way more positive than I've ever received on here. Now, I really don't think it's anything I've said on here because in my profile and emails I am always respectful and nice.

As far as ratios go, I receive 3-5 first contact emails a week and I very rarely email a girl first. I see no point emailing first because I understand most decent looking women are too overwhelmed with emails. Instead, I just respond to women that email me and occasionally we go out on dates. At times, I've dated a few women from here steady but I honestly don't expect much from online dating. My perception is that most folks on here are just after easy sex.

I would encourage any guy on here to just find a social club or go dancing to meet women. My luck in these types of events are probably easily seven times better than I've done online. Also, it's important not to value yourself based on the lack of responses you get online. Real life is the only reality.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 231
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/27/2010 7:37:35 AM
Emailing a forum user for dating purposes seems a bit odd to me, primarily because I believe I've come across about 5 female Bay area forum posters ever, and all of them were significantly older than me (except for one who was younger than me but 6 feet tall). I also have to say I've never seen any woman post anything in the forums that would compell me to email her about dating anyway. Nearly all female posts to me are disagreeing with me! I'm not much of a believer in "opposites attract."

Speaking of which, one obvious reason my messaging ratio is so low is that unlike a lot of people on here, I have no idea who will date me. None whatsoever. I don't know how many in this thread have said something about being realistic with your expectations will improve your ratios. So statistically, I am in bottom 1% in online dating searches because of my height/race/age combination. So I should be going after the bottom 1% of females, right? Well, my female equivalent is probably obese, a foot taller than me, nearly twice my age and rather uneducated and unemployed. By comparison, I've been a multisport athlete including competitive powerlifter for most of my life, was a high school valedictorian and college honors grad, have had a pretty active social life for the most part and work 2 or 3 jobs 80-100 hours a week. Mmm...

Meanwhile, although I am a "1," I dated a universally-agreed-upon 9 or 10 for a year-and-a-half and two others for more than a year that were at least 7s or 8s (I did not meet any of those 3 online, which is important to note). Although I have actually gone out with a couple of "1s," most of the women I have dated are definitely in the top 50% and have included sorority girls, cheerleaders and models, some of which I did meet online (other services with better systems for me than POF). These are women that shouldn't have any interest in me, but for some reason did.

So really, the only strategy I could logically have on POF is quantity: email nearly everyone that doesn't disqualify me in their profiles. Because with me, I never have any idea who is going to go out with me. Even some "1s" turn up their nose at me while I end up in a long term relationship with a 10. It's all just completely random with me. It makes it very difficult to have a high messaging ratio on a site like this,which is pretty much a free-for-all. There is just no way for me to tell what women will find me attractive -- there is just little in common among any of those who have found me attractive. I understand for most other people, it's very different: they have a pretty firm grasp on who will find them attractive, but sometimes they ignore this knowledge and then they end up with POF bitterness. Or some are just in denial about who they are. I am not in denial about who I am -- who I am just doesn't seem to mean much.

One thing that has bothered me about my success (or lack thereof) on POF is that I almost always message every woman I come across that claims to be another writer, and not a single one has ever written me back. I've actually never dated another writer period. If there's anything that shows you the importance of physical attraction vs. good writing skills, it's probably that -- you'd actually think another writer would want to write back just for the entertainment of writing another person with great writing skills, but apparently not.
 EGJV
Joined: 9/13/2008
Msg: 232
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/27/2010 8:02:34 AM

I would have started a thread about it.


Oh ok. The 12-line response is just to show how much you don't care.

HawkingJr:

There's no reason to believe any of these women writers think any farther than "I'm a writer. I deserve Brad Pitt". There was one girl I messaged some months back and I thought we were incredibly compatible - religion, looking for long-term, outlook on life, want kids, salsa dancing, etc etc etc. Never got a response. And again, if I see a gal like that - good-looking, got her life in order, looking for something serious - and I see her constantly on sites - that tells me her criteria are wrong for what she wants (just another "pick the wrong guy" syndrome sufferer).
 RushLuv
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 234
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/27/2010 9:55:14 AM

I don't understand why more women don't go picture-less and do the 'shopping' themselves. When you have your pics up and get bombarded with messages from guys 90 something percent in which you have absolutely no interest why keep operating in that inefficient mode? The only 2 reasons I can think are time.....(you don't have the time to search) and or fear of rejection which many men experience by being initiators. I think if a woman really wants success you should become proactive instead of strictly reactive.


That doesn't even make any sense. Why should more women with photos on display, go "picture-less", just to make first contact? Even if some of them are getting a ton of emails from men they aren't interested in, they could still have their photos remain present and initiate contact themselves, by contacting men of their interests.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 238
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/27/2010 2:30:41 PM
I don't reject men for how they look, or how much money they make..you don't have to believe me, but, it is the truth..I get a lot of mail..95% of it is worthless..I answer all reasonable emails..I think it is rude not too..if I can't find someone to date regularly ( have plenty of first dates) these would be the most common reasons why..and none of them have anything to do with how he looks, how tall he is, or how much money he makes:

1. Claim they really want to get to know me and meet...but, are hardly ever available to talk to, or they talk a lot but, never act.

2. Ask for my phone number, but, never call..or, never ask and don't want it if I offer..but, claim to want to get to know me...make promises they never keep...have an entirely different concept of time than I do...

3. Are Married/separated/involved/just looking for sex

4. Have on their profile or claim to be looking to date, or long term..and waste a lot of my time before they finally admit they are just looking for casual sex of some kind...then insult me and/or try to guilt me into obliging..and claim I have the problem..and they aren't lying on their profile...

5. I think they are really cool...they don't feel the same about me..

6. Totally incompatible with me , but persistent, and sometimes annoying..and way too needy/clingy for me...

7. Emotionally unavailable or commitment phobic...both of which they deny usually...

8. Rude/crude/illiterate/problems communicating clearly/racist/bigoted/arrogant/controlling

I don't think these are superficial reasons for rejecting someone...and these kinds of things are why I haven't found "him" yet..not for all the reasons you think///like being too picky, superficial, full of myself..etc...
 TheReason_
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 241
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/27/2010 6:08:16 PM
Where do you find such statistics? I have no clue.
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 242
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/27/2010 7:29:49 PM
BTW..as to taking your pic down...most men won't even talk to you if you don't have a pic posted..and a lot have that in their profiles..I've contacted men without pix before..especially forum posters...because of what they write...

Which reminds me..with the comments about the "very attractive" women..well, there aren't enough "very Attractive " people to go around, so anyone that thinks they have a chance with them better have much to offer, or something that makes them stand out from the crowd......besides the fact that it just bothers me that only the "very attractive" are evidently worthwhile people to date....

And another thing..men complaining that women judge by looks is almost laughable...even if its true most or some of the time..men are far more visual ...and far more critical, wanting perfection from what I see...


EDIT: Ya know..I don't count either..anything I use is a best guess..whether number received, answered or goes for more than an email or two..why do men count?
 merelymortal
Joined: 11/24/2009
Msg: 244
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/27/2010 10:26:45 PM
I get a response every time I send a message, but rarely get a message without sending one first. Yet to be not responded to, but thats probably because I at least look at their profile and see if they have anything at all in common with me and are a realistic prospect in my own mind.

May I advise a non- cookie cutter message guys? One that lets her know you really read her profile and don't just want to bone her? IDK, I get the impression that allot of you other guys are just fishing... no pun intended.
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 246
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/27/2010 11:24:05 PM

Why do you guys, keep droning on and on about what women do? I frankly don't get it. This reminds me of a guy who used to be on here, who posted on the forums. He said he was a CEO, lived in Cally, was tall and I guess women considered him fairly good looking. He had just under 400 favorites, when they published that kind of thing.

When he jumped on these threads, women always wanted to know, with 400ish favorites, why he never found "her"! Again, it's never the system, the women, the guys, it's who you are attracted to, who shares your interests, who makes you go WOW!!

Going on and on about, the women have to many choices, they delete my emails, I'm too short, too fat, too whatever or the system favors them, I do better IRL, or any of the rest, will change NOTHING!! At least 5 or 6 guys in the last 5 pages, have said they have good results, but you guys either blow by that, or attribute their success to being somehow more highly desirable than you, not true. They just figured it out.

While you may not be happy about what the women just said in the last 2 pages, YOU instigated it, by having a whinefest, and accusing them of callous behavior. Sorry dating is dating, and human nature is MEN contact women first, no strike, no amount of b1tching is gonna change it. If you don't want to learn it, then live with it or leave. What other choice do you have?

As for my pal hawking, 2 things, first I hate that 1 to 10 sh1t, it doesn't matter whether you are a 2 or 12, it only matters what 'she' thinks, or you think and feel about her. The "brad pitt" whine gets old as well.

Ask yourselves individually a question. Who in their right fuking mind, would spend hours, maybe even literally days on here looking, if they didn't want to find a guy? Everyone keeps going on and on about the number of emails they get. While some of you guys would enjoy getting emails telling you how great you look or an invitation to have sex, it doesn't butter the biscuit, if thats what you DON'T want, can't you see that?

Think about it.


Brother Evil....

Word!

Excellent post! and spot on.




My friend, if you are getting replies to every message. You are not merely mortal. You are a demi-god.


Nonsense, it really isn't that difficult, unless, ...well ...some people have a way with words, ...others?


um,

....not have way.
 HawkingJr
Joined: 4/16/2007
Msg: 248
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/28/2010 7:14:07 AM
"As for my pal hawking, 2 things, first I hate that 1 to 10 sh1t, it doesn't matter whether you are a 2 or 12, it only matters what 'she' thinks, or you think and feel about her."

Uh, that kinda sounds like you're agreeing with me. Actually, it sounds EXACTLY like you're agreeing with me.

But surely you must realize that whatever "chemistry" I managed to produce with those 7s-10s that made them decide to go out with a 1 does not exist on a dating website. I worked with my last girlfriend for almost a year before she decided she had a crush on me. It took me 3 months of constant "wooing" to get the 10/model to agree to go out with me.

There is no equivalent of that on POF. You are a picture and a set of statistics: race/height/age/etc. No woman is going to give you 3 months to a year to win her over on this thing if you are not what she thinks she might want right off the bat. (Any woman in this thread disagree?) You keep sending emails to a woman on this thing who has no interest in you, you are going to get blocked. How I've landed most of my dates in my life could not possibly be accomplished on POF.

I remember one of the moderators, who happened to be female, once made a post to me in opposition to more mail settings because she said she never would have met her boyfriend if settings for height, weight, hair, etc. had been in place because he would have been disqualified by some of those settings from contacting her. Turns out, she rejected him anyway but they later ended up meeting at one of POF's singles events, and she discovered in person they had great chemistry despite the fact that he didn't measure up to what she thought she wanted "on paper," and the rest is history.

The difference between me and you/all the guys who are supporting you plus Mr. 1 to 1 ratio (I checked all of your profiles) is that you guys measure up "on paper" for the majority of women in your age groups (according to numerous studies done on dating preferences) and I do not. You guys CAN blow it by saying something stupid -- but you've already got your foot in the door, so if it gets slammed on you, it's your own damn faults. I can also blow it by saying something stupid -- but only with about 1 out of every 100 women on this site. And I have no idea who that 1 is. I learned a long time ago that it doesn't matter what *I* want. Who I date will never be determined by anything *I* want. Which is why I don't crush on anybody anymore. It's just a waste of time and emotion, because nobody I have ever crushed on ever liked me back. Not once ever (the 10 doesn't really count because she was just some random hot chick I started hitting on and she bizarrely never told me to go away -- not really a crush). So I can't operate like you guys do. I have to go out with whoever will go out with me. And I never have any idea who that will be. Which is why POF is SO frustrating. Because almost nobody (at least in my area and age range) gives you any indication of who they WON'T date. You just have 10,000 freakin' profiles and you gotta respond to them all and see who writes back! Highly efficient, that is.

Well, for me. You say" Who in their right fuking mind, would spend hours, maybe even literally days on here looking, if they didn't want to find a guy?" As I and quite a few others have pointed out in this and most other threads, most women in my age group spend almost no time on this site. They just accomplish a lot more by doing next to nothing in comparison to me.
 EGJV
Joined: 9/13/2008
Msg: 249
What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 3/28/2010 10:10:55 AM
HawkingJr :

That's a great and insightful post, but I fear it's a waste of time considering who you're addressing. I wouldn't be surprised to see another implied "you don't know how to write messages" in response. However - reading this thread does reinforce something - if things work IRL, then definitely focus IRL (goes for everyone with bad message ratios).
 NFLjunky718
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 256
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 4/3/2010 4:03:30 PM
honestly I get about 3 new messages a day and probably about 5 views...beginners luck
 NFLjunky718
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 257
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What are your messaging ratio's?
Posted: 4/3/2010 4:14:09 PM
^^oh and I've sent oout about 2 or 3..and i've been on here about a week
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