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 Bookbelle
Joined: 10/24/2008
Msg: 149
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How many is too many?Page 3 of 23    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23)
I'm a standard 19 year old!

Before POF, I'd only ever had one boyfriend... kissing was as far as that went.
Seeing someone now thanks to POF... I'm "still" a virgin, not that it bothers me.

Meh, I think it's subjective. However many people like... as long as they did it because THEY wanted to, not because they think they "should" or somesuch.
 alwaysatwork
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 150
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/11/2009 9:36:38 AM
To goodwitchbeth, I have an answer to your question..
"How many partners does it take to earn the title 'Slut'?"
It is not actually a number of partners that makes a girl a slut, it is her actions. I have had friends that have slept with alot of guys and unless they had told me, I would have never guessed. Also, I have had some friends that have only had 2-5 partners and try to get with every good looking man around. But, here's the example I want to give of someone who, in my eyes, deserves the title....I know a (grown) woman that is married, has kids and acts very "prude"(almost to the point of being a tomboy) during the daytime, but every time we go out, she drinks, flashes her top, and makes out with everything in site. She has not had very many sexual partners, but her actions state that she would like to give it out like Halloween candy. But, best believe that if her man shows up where we are, her actions are different.
So, I say to the men....
Stop worrying about what a woman did before meeting you and be more concerned with what she is doing after meeting you.
 NightHawk2005
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 152
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/11/2009 12:29:27 PM
For me personally, any higher than one in my life is too many. I'm not sure how many would be too many for a potential wife to have had in her life. I'd need to know what the circumstances were and decide on that basis. As long as it was only with someone she truly loved, I could be forgiving.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 156
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How many is too many?
Posted: 8/11/2009 5:08:09 PM
I'm with kthyg.........the "man of my dreams" isn't the type of man that would be so insecure that he would have to ask!!
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 160
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History
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/11/2009 6:15:16 PM

If a man is not ok with my numbers than he isn't the man of my dreams. The man of my dreams will accet me for who I am including any past. Real connections wont be stopped by things that really aren't important


They're not important to you because you already whored it up and want given a pass on it. Men that were never interested in whoring it up don't want relationships with retired sluts.



I'm with kthyg.........the "man of my dreams" isn't the type of man that would be so insecure that he would have to ask!!


See above.


ASSume much?
Just because I don't think my "number" isn't anyone's business doesn't mean my "number" is high....or that I've "whored it up".
Once again, resorting to judgemental name calling just because you can't come up with a mature, reasonable response says more about your character than it ever will mine.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 167
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/11/2009 10:24:46 PM

No... insecure is being afraid to ask because you're afraid of the answer... so you just 'accept' it and hope for the best.... pathetic...

That is something with which I actually agree. Any one who is really secure would have no difficulty talking about the number of partners he/she has had nor the partners his/her SO has had. Someone who is afraid to know or who won't answer really is pathetic and insecure.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 169
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 4:30:15 AM

No, sex in the context of a loving monogamous adult relationship is not the same thing at all, how can you be over 20 and not know that. Sexual promiscuity, e.g., hooking up, one night stands, etc. when you're younger is tied to relationship troubles later in life. It's also been linked to depression and other mental problems in women. The research done through the years doesn't lie.

Correlation does not imply causation. The color green has been tied to leaves on trees but just because something is green does not mean it'as a leaf.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 171
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How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 5:02:38 AM

No... insecure is being afraid to ask because you're afraid of the answer...
so you just 'accept' it and hope for the best.... pathetic...


I'll give you the first half of your statement.....
but the "pathetic" part, IMO, is needing to ask to start with.
I'm not ashamed of my "number", far from it actually ......mainly because it isn't near as high as you "ASSume" it is just because I don't see it as anyone's business...
If a man really feels the need to know......I'll tell him. But he probably just ruined his chances with me by asking.....because, for me, "asking" is a red flag to a "type" I'm not interested in.

The assumptions around here are ridiculous. Amazing to me how so many men automatically think a woman is/has been a "whore" just because she thinks her past is her own business.
If I told you I think drug testing to work at McDonalds is wrong.....would you ASSume
I did drugs?
If I told you I think Obama has no business being President.........would you ASSume
I'm a racist?
Quit reading between lines that aren't there.
 krookie
Joined: 10/2/2007
Msg: 173
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 7:12:11 AM
It would seem that both sides of this argument are adamant about persuading the other side to "see the light". Too many...not enough...more than me... It's really pretty simple.

"Those who don't want to tell"

Absolutely fine. But you can't get upset with someone who will leave because of that fact. Also, if that someone becomes upset with your non-disclosure, you certainly have the right to walk away.

"Those who do want to tell or know"

Also fine. But you can't get upset with someone who will NOT disclose the information. You ALSO have the right to walk away and they have their RIGHT to privacy.


The problem seems to be that people treat this as an "I'm right and you're wrong" situation when it should be treated as a compatability issue. I don't think there is a right or wrong answer. Each person lives their own life and the consequences of their actions...or non-actions, as the case may be. No one has the right to dictate to others what they should or should not do...or who they should or should not be.

There's way too much life to live and way too many people out there to live it with to be stuck trying to mold someone into something they are not. Find someone who fits!
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 174
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 7:35:36 AM

The assumptions around here are ridiculous. Amazing to me how so many men automatically think a woman is/has been a "whore" just because she thinks her past is her own business.

That would include the one you just made. I don't assume anything ``just because a woman thinks her past is her own business.'' She could be a virgin for all I know. What I do know is that she thinks answering the question is a big deal.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 176
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History
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:15:54 AM
For those who think it's important to know a partner's history, the real question is: what are you going to do with the information once you get it? What if the number of exes is 100? 500? 1000? Are you going to sit there with a poker-face even if you're surprised? That wouldn't be an honest reaction. Suppose an SO trashes all her/his exes and makes them all out to be creeps or losers? Are you just going to agree like a sycophant and let her or him wallow in the victim role? Do you know that you're getting the whole truth? No. What if you hear an account of a downright crazy relationship? Can you go back and fix that or make it better? No.

The answer is: there's nothing one can do about the past. What one is doing when he delves into histories is allowing the partner to pull the junk from the past into what should be relationship-building conversations. It's pointless. Instead of building their own rapport with the SO based on the present, some people allow the exes (or, more precisely, their partner's imperfect recollections of the exes) to intrude upon their relationships and stink them up. That's exactly what happens.

It's a waste of time to delve into the past---especially concerning numbers. At best, those conversations will neither improve nor damage the current relationship. At worst, you'll become the partner's "therapist" or sounding board for the fùcked up past, instead of being a companion for an upbeat present and future. There's also the possibility that you'll be disgusted by what you hear, even though it was years ago and the partner is an entirely different person now. Why allow mistakes made long ago to influence your opinion of the SO? Focus on the partner as she or he is now, and not what may or may not have happened in the past (including numbers of ex-partners, details, etc.)
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 177
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:39:58 AM

For those who think it's important to know a partner's history, the real question is: what are you going to do with the information once you get it?

I don't think it's important to know, per se, but if I ask, it's important to get an answer. That answer can be ``It's none of your business,'' ``five,'' ``1000'' or even ``I can't remember.'' Only the first answer is unacceptable.

The answer is: there's nothing one can do about the past.

Considering the number of people who would dump someone for being a felon, being a prostitute or having visited a prostitute, I think most people are rather selective in applying that so-called wisdom.

It's a waste of time to delve into the past

If you feel it's a waste of time. Don't do it. Just don't expect everyone to agree on what constitutes a waste of time.

---especially concerning numbers

What is special about numbers?

At worst, you'll become the partner's "therapist" or sounding board for the fùcked up past, instead of being a companion for an upbeat present and future.

So, why does a person with high numbers have a fvcked up past?

There's also the possibility that you'll be disgusted by what you hear, even though it was years ago and the partner is an entirely different person now.

That has to be the lamest of all reasons. Not knowing something doesn't change the facts. I can't believe there are so many people who think ignorance is a plus.

Why allow mistakes made long ago to influence your opinion of the SO?

Who says those are mistakes? Why should having a lot of partners be a mistake? Your entire argument is predicated on the belief that having a lot of partners is a mistake that has to be covered up and put behind someone. As far as red flags go, that whole attitude is the red flag.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 182
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 11:44:32 AM

To me, having sex before you're in a relationship or while you're in the relationship doesn't change the simple fact that you had sex... on a practical level... what tangible difference does the "when" of it make?????

So, are you claiming that everyone should be clairvoyant because having sex with someone other than a person you'll meet several years from now is cheating on the person you haven't met?
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 183
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How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 12:07:13 PM

The answer is: there's nothing one can do about the past.


Actually, this is wrong. Completely.
Almost everything we do is predicated on the past; learning from it, primarily. The past, because it precedes everything has this tendency to influence what comes later. It is, then, from our own past that we learn who we are. It is, then, from the past of others that we learn who they are and what choices they are likely to make in their future. And while we might no be able to 100% say who we will be, we can infer who we will likely be. That is one reason why we study the past.


It's a waste of time to delve into the past

Is it? The only folk that I know who say such stupid, inane things are those who wish to hide the past and desire to be insulated from the consequences of their past. Folk who live decent lives don't feel thay need to exclude their past from current or future scrutiny.

In life, as in most every thing, there is always cause and effect.

TK
{living our lives as if they will be examined by future generations is a worthwhile exercise}
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 184
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History
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 1:22:10 PM
Many of the people who want to sit around and talk about past relationships are those who want to take short-cuts in developing rapport in their current relationships. They're playing detective or analyst, which are not good roles to indulge in healthy relationships. There are no short-cuts to intimacy. Most of the information you get from those relationship-history "talks" is, at best, neutral; and at worst, negative. Doesn't tell you a thing about your SO. You're only going to learn what someone's really about as you continue to see that person.

There is plenty to talk about (including the relevant past such as platonic experiences, skills learned, places travelled, friends, etc.) without devolving into past exes. You're going to learn a lot more about someone by learning how they spend their time; what they like to do; what they're good at, etc., than by what she says about exes. Those statements are often self-justifying and usually at least somewhat inaccurate.

It's waste of time to delve into the past (and by the past, of course, I mean past relationships, as the context of the thread would indicate). Obviously, no one is saying that one's entire past should be off-limits for discussion.



The past, because it precedes everything has this tendency to influence what comes later.


You can't predict what's going to "come later" based on subjective, inaccurate accounts of personal relationship histories. What you are hearing from an SO regarding past relationships is not identical to what actually happened. It's often not even close to what really happened. People (both genders) are often not objective while discussing past sex partners and exes--including just the prospect of revealing an accurate number of exes. People tend to be much more objective and accurate concerning their vocational history; or what their hobbies are; or where they have lived; or whom their platonic friends were/are; but few people are anywhere near objective concerning their relationship history. So, you're not learning anything useful enough in order to be able to predict how past relationships are influencing your SO's present behavior. It's unreliable information.

You're much better off observing your SO's current behavior and speech on their own merits.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 187
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 2:03:05 PM

There is plenty to talk about (including the relevant past such as platonic experiences, skills learned, places travelled, friends, etc.) without devolving into past exes. You're going to learn a lot more about someone by learning how they spend their time; what they like to do; what they're good at, etc., than by what she says about exes.

That's very strange. Now you're saying that what is relevant from the past to a relationship now is everything but the relationships that involve sex. Why would I learn something more relevant to a relationship by asking where she's travelled than I would by asking about prior relationships?

What you are hearing from an SO regarding past relationships is not identical to what actually happened. It's often not even close to what really happened. People (both genders) are often not objective while discussing past sex partners and exes--including just the prospect of revealing an accurate number of exes. People tend to be much more objective and accurate concerning their vocational history; or what their hobbies are; or where they have lived;

Precisely. The less objective a person is, the more that person will rationalize their behaviour and it is very easy to tell when smeone is not being objective. If a person cannot talk objectively now about a personal relationship in the past, that person hasn't learned anything.

So, you're not learning anything useful enough in order to be able to predict how past relationships are influencing your SO's present behavior. It's unreliable information.

You are presuming that the information being sought is the exact answers to those questions, but that would never be my objective in asking such questions. I really don't care what the answers are, but the information I get from how the questions are answered WILL be reliable. It just isn't the information you think it is.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 189
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 2:09:19 PM

Abelian - See above.

Correlation is not causation. Furthermore, even if A => B, that doesn't mean B => A.


abelian - Again most women that are in their twenties and virgins are proud of that fact it's not always for religous reasons.

Why is that something to be proud of? It's a fact, just like not being a virgin. Someone could just as easily be proud of not being a virgin.
 MsMicki
Joined: 10/2/2006
Msg: 194
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How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 6:59:56 PM
thank you for proving my point MChurch!
People want to read between lines & then judge based on their own assumptions.


MsMicki:If I told you I think drug testing to work at McDonalds is wrong.....would you ASSume I did drugs?



MChurch: Not neccesarily, but I might infer that you worked in a low playing restaurant... So I might ask...


if you had any idea how much that comment cracked me up
Talk about leaping to conclusions!
Not that there is anything wrong with working at McD's or any other restaurant (funny how you throw in "low paying").......but the fact that you "inferred" that just because I made a comment about it....is exactly my point!

This is why people should stay out of other people's past. Without knowing all the details, it is human nature to "fill in the blanks" with your own theories.
Yes, as times goes by in a relationship.......we should get comfortable enough with each other to reveal things from our past. But some things are just best left in the past.
Do you really need to know I had a one night stand w/ a bartender in 1986? Is that information going to make or break our relationship? Will you understand "Why" I felt the need to do it? ...or will I have to suddenly feel guilty because it now affects you?

Yesterday is done........it does not dictate my tomorrow.
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 195
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How many is too many?
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:00:29 PM
Let's take a guy and a girl in their 30s who just started dating. They've seen each other three times, and enjoyed themselves. They've spent the night together once. Let's say that they are dating a fourth time---a weekend date on a Saturday. They find a quiet spot in which to talk together, and the conversation gradually turns to the past.

The guy asks his pertinent question innocently enough: "So......how many guys would you say you've been with, total?"

The girl thinks for a moment before answering. She feels comfortable with the guy and the direction of the conversation, so she says: "Well.....I'd say about 40......50, maybe." The guy nods, with a hint of a smile. "That's cool...."

But here's what any red-blooded, normal guy would be thinking:

Well, is it 40 guys, or 50 guys?
Were these experiences all during one phase of life, or were they spread out?
Does she count oral or anal as sex, or just vaginal sex as sex?
Were these mostly ongoing relationships? Or mostly one-night stands?
Well.......I've had many more (or many less) partners than that number!

The only thing the "How many?" question does is to open the door to rampant speculation about the past; and the deeper the discussion goes (if it continues at all), the more questions pop up. One can play detective and stretch this line of question-and-answer into a five-hour conversation; but it still leaves more questions than answers. It's a Pandora's box, not a way of increasing intimacy.

So, I come right back to my original question: What are you going to do with that information? Look to see if her "body language" matches her answers? That's inconclusive. Attach a pejorative judgment to a number which is above a certain ceiling or below a certain floor? Probably---that's human nature. So, instead of learning more about whom the SO is as a person today, the "how many?" question forces ignorant speculation onto the past as one attempts to fill in the gaps created by a spoken number.

Asking about one's hobbies is straightforward. Asking about one's job/academic history is straightforward. Asking about one's platonic friends usually generates a straightforward, uncomplicated list of people. One's preferences in food, music, destinations---all straightforward. Even conversations about ex-LTRs can be straightforward. Discussing those things doesn't usually create rampant speculation.

Asking "how many people have you bedded in your life?" will never lead to a straightforward exchange which doesn't engender more speculation. You're not really getting to know someone with the question. That conversation, unless one abruptly drops it, leads nowhere except to distrust.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 200
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How many is too many?
Posted: 8/13/2009 6:59:40 AM
kthyg wrote:
I did the math on this. You average woman in a metropolitan area or online or both gets approached for sex on an average of once a day. Thats 365 times a year. Say most women are single about 10 years. That's a potential 3650 sex partners without trying. If she turned down 95% of those, she would still have slept with 182 men in her lifetime. Now, if most guys turned down 95% of the offers they got for sex, they would be practically celibate. So, I'm just saying, if your girl has had under 182 partners, she still has only slept with the top 5% of those who approached her. That's pretty good self control.


What the hell? What are you smoking or snorting? You call that self-control?

Even if you were off by a factor of 10 or 100, . . .

Thank God I live in the sticks and abhor metro areas, if they are filled with this type of thinking, it would explain the large flushing sound we hear every once in a while!

TK
{Give me a woman in bib-overalls, a shovel, and morals anyday over this trendy crap.}
 spitfire6844
Joined: 6/30/2007
Msg: 205
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How many is too many?
Posted: 8/13/2009 7:15:18 PM

Of course it can lead to a straightforward exchange, and yes, it can be a part of getting to know someone (more about attitudes than the importance of the actual number).


No, it doesn't (lead to a straightforward exchange). I've had too many buddies relate their speculations to me concerning girls they were seeing because they asked the women that question. I told one dude: "Why are you telling me how many dudes she's been with? You're gonna have to go back to her and dig some more if you want something cleared up."

Despite any denial of it, the number usually bothers people if it's a number they didn't expect.
 Tarnished_Knight
Joined: 3/5/2009
Msg: 206
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History
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/13/2009 10:07:33 PM
kthyg, if you were addressing the following remark to me,

You telling me you have turned down over 95% of the women you have had a chance to sleep with? Somehow doubting it


Let's turn that number around.

I have slept with (that is, had sexual intercourse with) 100% of the women I intended to get sexual with. Fortunately, the important number in that ration is 1. I "went all the way" with but one woman.

I did not need a train of women to satisfy some ego trip to prove I was/am a man. My sexuality and worth as a man was never in question. I had enough respect for the future Mrs. Tarnished_Knight not to expose myself or her to any wandering microbes that like to play havoc with our bodies, I had enough respect for the future Mrs. TK that she did not and never had any reason to think I was comparing her to any one else I could have slept with, nor did my past ever leave any doubt in her mind that I had any issues with self control.

And while that may seem quaint and old fashioned in this oh so enlightened age, MY ability to bond is still intact, I don't need to make excuses for past behavior, and I certainly don't need to act indignant when and if a woman wonders about my past (or our future). I haven't trivialized sex or the romantic/eros aspect of being a couple. And I damn sure haven't belittled the act of sex to nothing more profound than taking a dump. I still think of and treat sex like the gift to a couple that it should be.

And while my mind may be far from pure, any future lover can be assured that I know where my fantasies end and reality begins.

TK
{harlots and gigolos, got no use for either}
 NightHawk2005
Joined: 3/11/2009
Msg: 207
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/13/2009 10:26:10 PM
I've turned down 100% of the women I've had a chance to sleep with. I'll turn down any woman I'm not married to.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 209
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/14/2009 11:35:21 AM
No, it doesn't (lead to a straightforward exchange).

Maybe in your world it doesn't, but some of don't play games to hide things. I'm not ashamed of having sex and I don't want a partner who is ashamed of having sex.

I don't see what you're getting at with you're whole correlation is not causation thing,

Then you really need to go look up the subject of statistics and do some reading so you understand what statistics mean before presenting them as an argument. As the saying goes, figures don't lie, but liars figure. You can't lie with statistiices but you can minsrepresent what the statistics mean. Confusing correlation with causation is one of the most egregious ways of doing that.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 211
How many is too many?
Posted: 8/14/2009 2:51:10 PM
The girl thinks for a moment before answering. She feels comfortable with the guy and the direction of the conversation, so she says: "Well.....I'd say about 40......50, maybe." The guy nods, with a hint of a smile. "That's cool...."

I've dated women with numbers way higher than that.

But here's what any red-blooded, normal guy would be thinking:

Although I'm pretty sure my blood is red, I must not be normal because I would be wondering if her brain is really incapable of counting once she gets too far beyond her fingers and toes.


Well, is it 40 guys, or 50 guys?
Were these experiences all during one phase of life, or were they spread out?
Does she count oral or anal as sex, or just vaginal sex as sex?
Were these mostly ongoing relationships? Or mostly one-night stands?
Well.......I've had many more (or many less) partners than that number!

Try dating guys who aren't insecure and/or don't have double standards as well as don't believe that not knowing something means it didn't happen. Doesn't it get old having to be careful with what you will admit to doing for fear of having someone not like you for who you are?
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