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 callmelori
Joined: 12/3/2008
Msg: 127
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When the bill comes on a first date...Page 11 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
Zuglo typed...
If she offers to share the bill, or put the tip down, here I was thinking, wow, what I great women..LOL.

That made me chuckle. That's not entirely true. I offer to pay and do pay regardless if I like the guy or not. I think it's just the right thing to do. Have there been instances where I helped to pay the bill and didn't want to see the man again? Sure, but the funny thing is, more often than not, I paid for the entire bill on the first date when I did like the guy and went on to date him for several months or longer. :) So, there is no hard and fast rule.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 129
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/17/2009 8:29:40 AM
I guess it boils down to men paying for the meal, on the first date at least, as being a convention in our society. It's sort of like showing up at the girl's house, then having HER drive you to your destination. Wouldn't happen. The guy should drive, all things being equal. It goes back to the man being in control of things, sort of like "leading the dance." It just isn't viewed as normal for the woman to take charge so that the man is in a submissive situation. I think we can all agree on that.

Women want to have the best of both worlds, to be viewed as equals, but still reap the benefits of tradition. I don't have a problem with women being viewed that way, but there are distinct differences, so everything is not equal when it comes down to it.
 callmelori
Joined: 12/3/2008
Msg: 130
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/17/2009 9:33:00 AM
tracyannk typed...
I only hope that they treat me like a lady, and not try to grab my boobs...

HA! This statement reminds me of a date I had maybe 3 years ago. OK, this will be dating me and only people my age will probably remember this movie, but in Duchess and the Dirtwater Fox (Goldie Hawn/George Segal), Goldie was a saloon call girl, George was a brazen cowboy. In one scene, she and George are facing each other. George reaches over with both hands and squeezes her [boobs] and says, "HONK! HONK!"

During one of my first-date-only dates, I thought the date was going well. At the end of the date, I offered to drive the guy back to his car since he had walked me to mine and his car was several blocks away. We got in my car and he leaned over to kiss me - no big deal - but then, he squeezed one of my ... ummm ... chest parts in a totally non-seductive way, and all I could think of was George Segal saying "HONK! HONK!" Of course I CRACKED UP! The guy looked at me and said, "That's not the reaction that I was looking for." HA! That made me laugh harder. I couldn't even explain to him why I cracked up because I didn't want to hurt his feelings. "Grabbing" a woman's chest is never seductive. Usually, it's not humorous either, but occasionally, it is hilarious! Sometimes, you just have to have a healthy sense of humor when going on first dates. :))
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 131
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/17/2009 10:41:34 AM
All this stuff just makes the whole life of a pickup artist lifestyle seem more intriguing. In the mass majority of their stories, they never buy the girls a drink...or anything for that matter. The main downside being that
1. The methods they use to get with a gal are different than methods needed to keep her.
2. Just because you use specific tactics for picking up women, you're automatically a pig/misogynist/womanizer

I personally see no issue with trying to get with a woman without being obligated to drain my financial resources. Hell she (traditionally) is doing just that exact thing.

And why is it that when a guy brings up the idea of equality, it's always getting deflected or ignored? I guess women are hellbound and determined to have their cake and eat it too.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 133
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/17/2009 10:57:47 AM
What if the guy was laid off due to the economy? And he didn't want to be embarrassed by saying "Let's go out to eat...and btw, can you pay your way?"

So you just assume he is going to pay for your share and he bites the bullet and does, but then has to eat Ramen noodles for three weeks afterwards because he is so broke.
 victoriasnewsecret
Joined: 1/23/2008
Msg: 136
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/17/2009 11:38:29 AM

If it wasn`t a business deal there would be no need for courts or lawyers. Don`t forget too about all the screaming orgasms a woman has while having sex that a man got her drunk to have, the "drunk" part just gets them off the moral hook. if she gets pregnant it`s because you didn`t use a condom and "knocked" her up without her consent instead of her failing to use birth control and failing to be responsible for her own body. We get the bill for that too and get no say so over her keeping it or aborting it. get yourself cut and never get married, it`s the only way to keep them from owning you which is the real goal.


Wow.. the bitterness. How bout you just take home sober women for a change?
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 142
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/17/2009 12:44:16 PM
It's also a test. If you can't even afford to pay for dinner, then you probably aren't stable enough to do much of anything else in your life...including having a decent relationship.
 callmelori
Joined: 12/3/2008
Msg: 143
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/17/2009 1:37:35 PM
touchdown bundy typed...
A real gentleman would motorboat those babies.

OMG! You gave me a Vince Vaughn visual. HA! BTW...I loved that movie. It was a hoot!
 EdwardPartSix
Joined: 4/6/2007
Msg: 145
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/17/2009 5:39:34 PM

I just recently started reading these forums and the lack of social skills seems to be rather surprising.

Guys: First date.. you pay. Simple.

Girls: Making an offer to pay (on the first date) does not show that you are considerate. It shows that you don't want to be obligated and is generally an insult. After the first date, you can offer to go dutch if you like. Oh, and by the way, asking for a box to take home the leftovers is just plain tacky on a first date.


Completely and totally disagree. While I prefer to pay on the first date, I like when a girl offers to pay, and I am put off when a girl doesn't offer to pay for anything. Also, if I pay for your meal, you had better ask for a take home box and not waste half my money.

Social skills have nothing to do with who pays on a first date. If you can't afford dinner on a first date, don't take a girl to dinner. Take a walk, get a beer, get an ice cream, see a free show, do anything. There is no law that dinner is a first date.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 148
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/18/2009 2:29:54 PM

How many first dates per week would you pay for at $50.00-$100.00+ a shot? (You don't want to be considered cheap.) Should I judge your financial stability on whether you can shell out as much as 1k per month on dates?


It wouldn't matter because if she's dating "real" men, then she won't have to spend a dime.
 Adam 4 Coffee
Joined: 5/31/2007
Msg: 160
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/20/2009 11:09:30 PM
I always pay on the first date. During tough times I go dutch if we have been dating for a while such as if I lost my job. Sometimes I get treated. but that's for long term relationships. On the first date the guy should always pay. Only an amateur or a cheapskate jerk would not pay for the first date. Well I have gone dutch when I am unsure about a girl. unsure meaning the girl was a lot bigger than what her profile pictures and statements depicted. What I like to call the facespace angles. I do like a girl with a little meat on her bones just not as much meat as a cow. To quote futurama.
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 164
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/21/2009 8:47:14 PM
Funny, money only seems to be an issue for you if you are the one paying; the "who invite pays" mentality only works if you are willing to invite too though. Anyway, this isn't about money, this is about equality and the false sense of entitlement that some women have, period.
 missangelmist
Joined: 3/27/2007
Msg: 166
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:07:15 PM
I always offer when the bill comes to help out so I make sure I have cash on me but I have not known a man that has said yet OK pay 1/2. I have met some amazing men that are very much gentleman's.
 Emillia-luv
Joined: 7/18/2009
Msg: 167
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/21/2009 9:11:10 PM
I expect him or her to pay, Unless I am in a good mood, I may do it. Otherwise, the uglier one should pay lol. jk
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 169
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/23/2009 8:57:53 AM

I don't intend to be stuck which a cheapskate.

Ha! Try being a guy... you'd have no choice but which cheapskate to be stuck with.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 170
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/23/2009 9:02:21 PM

Yea you go ahead and boohoo, with that attitude I just see this post as being the typical man on POF, not an extradonary man, just your regular run of the mill kind of man that pretty much hates women.


Interesting how one of the criteria for being extraordinary is a guy spending his money on you when he doesn't even know you. All this being despite him actually having enough backbone to ask you out because God knows you probably would have never even looked in his direction otherwise.

There are a lot of regular run-of-the-mill guys in this world. In fact, I would say most guys fit underneath the bell curve for being run-of-the-mill. Just because they aren't "special" in your eyes, it doesn't mean that they hate women. But it looks to me that my definition of extraordinary differs from yours. Moreover, what makes -you- so deserving of someone that's so amazing?
 Monkey_brains
Joined: 6/25/2009
Msg: 172
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/23/2009 11:43:25 PM
Call forth your super-power ninja genius and grab it before he does....

then eat it...........

problem solved......
 Schumi_fan
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 173
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/24/2009 5:03:42 AM
why should he pay? you women ask for equal rights and then expect him to pay. Get over yourself and wake up. Last time I checked women work these days too.
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 174
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/24/2009 6:16:25 AM

NEVER PAY if the guy invites you out .... hes paying the bill no matter how much it is. obvi u follow his lead if he orders a drink u do as well if he doesnt ... u dont go ordering a 15$ martini. simple as that. men if u dont want to pay dont ask a girl on a date.

While I appreciate the point of being courteous and to not abuse a mans good will, everyone, on this planet, should be entitled to dating, romance and love. For you to feel that your time is more valuable based entirely on your gender, and that those who aren't willing to pay you for your time shouldn't be dating at all, is entirely selfish and sexist. The "pay up or be alone" blackmail mentality is so blatantly immoral, I don't see how someone, who seems like a nice person, could actually really mean it.




And here is the killer, to me anyway ... so many men actually get pizzed if a woman doesn't offer to pay half and write her off as users, but if the woman does pay half they get pizzed also because then FEEL the woman is not interested.

Don't stereotype, if the girl I was dating wouldn't offer to pay, I wouldn't get pissed; I would merely be disappointed. If she did offer to pay, with intent, she would definitely gain my respect. Whether or not she is interested, however, I would be able to see from her body language before the bill ever arrives.



If the man is DUMB enough to go to an expensive restaurant to MEET a person from on line ... then tough shiit for you. If the woman suggests an expensive restaurant and you agree, tough shiit for you again.

Man offers and woman accepts, man loses; Women offers and men accepts, man loses again. This seems justifiable to you?


I just can't stop posting on these threads 'cause of men's attitude to this it is the BIGGEST reason that women just turn you men down. Its in your profiles, in your posts, in your attitudes and it is very ugly to see.
Again, that blackmail mentality, "pay up or be alone", funny how just two paragraphs above you complained about having a lack of free choice in dating while this is exactly what you are imposing on the man you date.


I am generous and I only date generous men also ... and if you think generous is only attached to MONEY then you would only see the back of my azz as I leave you standing there ... don't let the door slap you in the face as I leave you and your bad all about money attitude.
No, you are making generosity out to be about money by insinuating that men who expect women to pay their fair and equal share are horrible people that shouldn't be dating. Generosity has nothing to do with money and men, just like you, can be generous without ever touching their wallets so, if you don't want to make it about money, offer to pay your own meal.


Well if he was very tall, dark, handsome and of course LOADED then I might think of a cup of mint tea and take it from there. Tea on me of course.
So not only are you discriminating based on gender but you are now also discriminating based on looks and income? You are truly something else.
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 176
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/24/2009 9:00:41 PM

In my nearly sixty years on this planet, I have observed a non-gender specific correlation between generosity with money and generosity in all other avenues. Those who are tight with money are also tight with praise, gratitude, affection and all forms of giving. This has proven true with all my female acquaintances as well as men.

Well, in my 24 years on this planet, I have met a few people who were generous with their money yet gave very little in other avenues and I have met a LOT of people who were very generous without ever giving so much as a dime.


However, in the natural mating code, if you are niggling and pissed that she felt entitled for you to pay for her *COFFEE*, read my first paragraph - you are a man of ungenerous nature and the woman will pass you up as a poor choice as husband and father.
It's not about the price of the coffee, it could be fifty cents or it could be fifty dollars; it's about equality. Instead of representing yourself as an equal and as a good potential life partner, you are representing yourself as a dependent child.
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 178
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/24/2009 9:28:28 PM
You men are so much stronger and we women are so much weaker. Why, we barely just got the vote and now you expect us to pay for our own steak??
Wait a second... women have been able to vote since 1920 but someone with dark skin couldn't vote, in some states, until 1965. Should who pays also be decided by skin color as well now?! No, obviously not and I think it's time gender equality did some caching up. Men aren't stronger and women aren't weaker, we are equals.



There's a double standard out there and we all own part of it. I like to be the woman in the relationship. I don't want to grow testes, so you're safe.
You can still be a woman without conforming to stereotypical gender roles. Don't worry, you will still be 100% woman(without the testes) and I wouldn't have it any other way.


The smart man will perceive that he was a gentleman during the date and it was appreciated. The bitter man will perceive that he's been played yet again by a hungry money-grubbin biotch.
This thought is just plain ignorant and bigoted. Equality has nothing to do with being bitter nor would I consider a girl who doesn't pay as a "money-grubbin biotch". A smart man would also know that if a gift comes to be expected, it will not appreciated and instead just be taken for granted.


So if I insist on paying for dinner, have I leveled the playing field or assaulted your manhood
If you insisted on paying the full dinner instead of just your fair share, you would not be assaulting my manhood or leveling the playing field, you would simply be going out of your way to exert your financial prowess. As appreciative as I would be if you tried to pay my full meal, I would prefer to decline and pay my own. If you were truly adamant about the counter offer, than I would consider myself indebted and would find another way to repay for the meal.
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 182
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/25/2009 12:00:44 PM
Wait, if you eat by yourself, you are paying for that meal, so why would it be so hard to pay for your own meal when you are in the company of another? Their time and attention is just as valuable as yours.

The days of wining and dining are over?! really? You can still go eat and drink wine and you can still have a romantic time with someone who's company you enjoy; just treat him as an equal, someone who's company you enjoy just as much as he enjoys yours, and not as a portable atm. Romance is what you make it out to be and being treated as an equal is more romantic to me than any free bottle of wine or diner.


<div class="quote">This question was posed about a FIRST date. Whoever does the asking should do the paying. First dates are different, no? It's a brief opportunity to see if you have more in common or any chemistry to pursue future meets. Well, in the perfect world this would also be a fine solution but the reality of dating is that most women will not instigate or invite first. Still, you accepted and you want to spend time with this person, so it's not like all the burden is on you or that you should be compensated for your time; this isn't a business sale, this is a date. You can find out what you have in common with this person and pay your own way all at the same time.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 183
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/25/2009 12:37:21 PM
^^^^ Just as some women would be taken (a)back by the man inisiting on her paying her own way -- which actually seems much closer to the truth of the matter.
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 184
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:10:12 PM
I have found that usually the nastiest men are short or under achievers or "whaterever" in most aspects of their lives and can not come to grips that they are just not dating material. So they have found solace in the forums to bash the very women who turn them down over and over.
Quite an ironic statement considering your post history, so far all I have seen you do on these forums is stereotype, misrepresent and insult men.

If women pay we are insulting men, if women don't pay we are using men
How about this, offer to pay your share. If he refuses he gets to be his childish school-yard idea of a gentlemen, if he accepts than he is happy to call you an equal. It's a win-win situation for everyone, not that complicated.



It seems that many men are quite upset over feeling like they are ATM machines. Perhaps it is because they keep asking women out on that first meet (which is not a date 'cause they don't know who the hell they are meeting) who WON'T see them again. that they are beginning to see the $$$ in their wallets going down the drain.
A meet is a date, just like a blind date is a date; I wish you could just give that one up already.


Save your money, get lifts in your shoes, get a rug on your head, go to the gym and lose the gut ...
Really!? "lifts in your shoes and rug on your head"? I can understand the gym, where there you can actually do something to fix that gut, but height and hair loss aren't just things that you can or should hide, they are a permanent part of who you are. Should they try to hide their age or their ethnicity as well?



I have never noticed men who are confident, good looking, tall dark and handsome make fools of themselves over the price of a coffee or a dinner on a first date.
That is a very broad over-generalization, I'm sure there are probably a lot of tall, dark and handsome men who would disagree with your statement. However, that doesn't change the fact that the opinions of those who don't match the fairy-tale image of a perfect man also have an opinions and it matters just as much.

If caring about equality enough to speak out about it makes me a fool in your eyes than that's a price I would gladly pay but I am very confident that there are more and more women out there who are willing to share the tab on that one as well.
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 187
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/26/2009 8:34:06 AM
mia, expecting women to pay their own way has nothing to do with misogyny, in fact it couldn't further from it; if anything, you are looking at women as individuals who are incapable of providing for themselves, which is not only false but also very misogynistic.

I'm not looking for a man without a penis but a woman who is also my equal; you are obviously too locked in your own oppressive preconceptions of gender roles to make the difference.

Savona, I break your posts in pieces as to better provide context to my counter argument.

lil broker, one can be bitter or angry about issues without hating it's culprit or generalizing against an entire gender. Still, by being reluctant about dating over this, you are doing exactly what it is you are reprimanding them for.
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