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 toddjoe
Joined: 6/15/2008
Msg: 66
When the bill comes on a first date...Page 2 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
Quote: "At least be man enough to pay for what you ordered or even better pay for the lady's drink. And maybe you might get a second date for once in your life.

It's not about money at all, but this falls under the chivalrous catergory. Be polite, open the door for her, ask her questions, be a gentleman and pay for a drink.
Not too hard to do".

I agree. It's something I've always done...... Even when I was 16 (Pay for my date & open doors).
A guy that expects you to pay for a date he asks you out on, is just a free-loading loser, and most likely will always be just that......
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 70
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/15/2009 7:43:55 AM


My thought is that whoever initiated the date, asked the other to go out and chose the restaurant is the one who should offer to pay for that initial date.

That's generally my thought too but the problem is that most people who say "who offers, pays" usually never offer. Women aren't really expected to make the first move and a lot of women would rather play hard to get than ask a guy out.

Unfortunately though, women who are willing to pay don't really seem to be in the majority. There are still a lot of women who have this sexist sense of entitlement, as if their time are worth more than ours. They are usually also the same women who are socially indoctrinated to feel as if their affection needs to be bought, whether it's with a first date or an expensive wedding ring.

Regardless of what the femi-nazi's may have told you, women make as much as men in the work force; women are only limited by their own choices. The only difference in pay comes from men choosing jobs that require higher levels of commitment and risk. There is a reason why, even though men are approximately 50% of the workforce, they account for 93% of job related death.

Guys end up paying for it because it's what is expected of them, however sexist that may be, not because they want to. Either pay up or be alone is our ultimatum; some call that chivalry, I call it blackmail.
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 71
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/15/2009 12:47:57 PM
If a man tried to pay for me on the first date, there would be no more dates. I would most likely walk out on the first date.
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 74
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/15/2009 4:22:02 PM
That's pretty rude, though, right? All he was trying to do was be a gentleman or be polite. He shouldn't be punished for that..

I don't see it that way. I really don't understand why it is still thought of as normal for a man to pay for a woman on a date. This is my hot button, and I am sure there is something that would cause you to walk out on a date too.

So would it be just as ok, for me to say "thanks, but I got it for both of us"?

I am trying to find a man that thinks of women as being their equal, not someone they need to take care of. There have only been two men in my life that I allowed to pay for me and they were my father and my son. My father when I was growing up and my son at times like mothers day.

It is odd to me that now in the 21st century men are allowed the pride of taking care of themselves and paying their own way, but women are not.

I also find it odd that women think that just showing up for the date is enough effort on their part.

If a man wants to impress me he will show me the basic respect of treating me as an equal adult, not someone that needs care and feeding like a child.
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 75
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/15/2009 5:14:46 PM


When and if you have daughters or if you have one and she comes of working age, you will want for her to be valued just as much for her education, skill, talent, work experience and teamwork as any man that is in the job.

Of course I would; reguardless of whether or not I end up with a daughter one day I still care very much for equality and equal pay. But the reality is that women not only get equal pay, they get special treatment towards education, employment opportunities and maternity leave(men aren't really given the option to be stay at home dads).

There could be other factors involved such as experience, commitment or results. Men are also more likely to be responsible for being the sole provider for their families which is a very good motivator when it comes to promotions. (I have seen a lot of cases where both worked but never really seen any women who were willing to become sole providers).

I appreciate your intentions, I really do, but the truth is that the feminism of today is more about misandry than anything else; sexism against men is blatant and undeniable, whether it's in dating, at home or in the workforce. Fighting for equal pay doesn't make you a femi-nazi but fighting for equal pay for unequal work isn't equality either.
 victoriasnewsecret
Joined: 1/23/2008
Msg: 76
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/15/2009 6:57:32 PM

I don't see it that way. I really don't understand why it is still thought of as normal for a man to pay for a woman on a date. This is my hot button, and I am sure there is something that would cause you to walk out on a date too.

I am trying to find a man that thinks of women as being their equal, not someone they need to take care of. There have only been two men in my life that I allowed to pay for me and they were my father and my son. My father when I was growing up and my son at times like mothers day.


As much as I'm in the other camp, I definitely respect your point of view! Have you experienced hate from men for your way of thinking?
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 77
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/15/2009 6:59:54 PM
^^^^ We're too busy chipping in and otherwise raising tons of $$'s to have her massively cloned to have any time to hate...
 _Paradoximus_Maximus
Joined: 2/24/2009
Msg: 81
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 5:34:25 AM

Of course this doesn't apply in every situation but generally I feel if you meet a WOMAN for a first date, if SHE pays the bill it is a very nice gesture.
MEN aren't expecting you to pay every time after that but on a FIRST date buying a man drinks will definitely impress HIM and is usually make or break on any dating with HIM in the future.


I thought I would flip the genders in the initial post and see if made very much difference to the theme.........
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 85
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 7:52:13 AM
The first time I went out with my ex, we did like three mini dates in one. I told her that she could pay for dinner and then I'd cover the art gallery entry fee and pay for the movie after. Seemed only fair, considering I still paid more than my "share" for the dates. But apparently this was a big misstep and she considered not talking to me after that day because of it. Another first date with someone else I suggested the girl just pay the tip and I'd cover the rest of the check, and she never called me again.

So the lesson learned: pay for EVERYTHING guys, because apparently not doing so is enough to make the person never want to talk to you again.
 _Paradoximus_Maximus
Joined: 2/24/2009
Msg: 87
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 8:53:05 AM


So the lesson learned: pay for EVERYTHING guys, because apparently not doing so is enough to make the person never want to talk to you again.


basically true
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 88
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:13:54 AM

I think its weird that you kept track. So you "Told her " to pay for dinner? And then the 2nd girl you "suggested" for her to pay the tip? Wouldn't it have been better to see if they at least offered?


Well, they absolutely would NEVER offer to pay without being prompted, so scratch that one off the list. Remember, many women are of the mindset that the guy will simply pay for everything!

I say it like, "How bout this? I'll cover the tab if you cover the tip."

I dunno, it's not necessarily financially related. I mean, I'm not broke. But I think it lets the woman know early on that I'm not going to be a personal ATM machine for her whenever she wants to do something. It's all about setting her expectations. Is that not fair?
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 90
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 9:47:22 AM

And how's this working out for you?

I don't think you should say anything about her paying the tip. If she doens't offer, then why would you want to go out with her again if this issue means so much to you.

Once your in a relationship with someone, everything is pretty much 50/50. But on the very first date I don't think you should prompt her to do anything. Also, if you tell her to cover the tip, that means that you had to tell her what the bill came to. Is that your passive-aggressive way of saying "look at the $$ I spent on you" ?


I'm batting 500. But I don't know if the making her pay thing is what made me lose her interest or not, so it's hard to say. The other girl didn't like it, but she stayed with me.

If you go looking for reasons to not continue going out with someone, you'll always find them. So her expecting me to pay is just something guys have to get used to.

I don't think its that hard to deduce that 2 cokes, a chicken ceaser salad, and a gyro come to about $25, so it's not like I was "flashing my cash" when I showed her the bill.

It comes down to this: The unspoken rule of politeness. If a friend asks me to help him move, I help him. He then offers to pay me for my help, which he should be required to do out of politeness. Then I am required to NOT accept his money. Sure, he could've just assumed I wouldn't want his money, but it's the thought that counts. And that speaks volumes.

Thoughtfullness. A word to live by ladies.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 92
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:08:38 AM

If it was such an inexpensive date then why would you want her to pay the tip? Did you not like her? Was it one of these 'first meets' ? Or a real 'date'?

My friends and I don't offer money when we help each other. We help each other because we're friends and that's what friends do.

You're missing, or ignoring, the whole point. It's not at all about money. It's about showing consideration for the other person, even if it's just implicitly.

It's not "Your my buddy so you have to help me." You offer a token gesture to show your gratitude. These are subtle things that you can do in life to endear people to you. Since a lot of people don't understand this concept, it's sort of my way of helping them to understand that. Common courtesies, much like common sense, are not as common as they should be.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 94
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:27:32 AM

Yeah, but wouldn't common curtesy suggest that if you ask someone out to dinner then you should be the one who pays? Then on date #2 its her treat?


Ugh, no. She wanted to go out as much as I did. I go out to eat all the time with friends, but I don't foot their bill just because I suggested the restaurant.


My friends would be insulted if I offered them $$ to help me.


People are different. I would be thankful and appreciative if it were me. Perhaps feelings of gratitude vs. insult is a matter of one's own personality and character.


You're not helping them understand anything - you're putting them in an awkward situation - a situation that puts you in a negative light. If said woman does not show you the courtesy you think you deserve then don't date her anymore.


It does put me in a negative light, which is why I won't do it anymore. But it shouldn't be awkward. I mean, throw down a five dollar bill for the tip and be done with it.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 96
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:49:48 AM

Ugh, no? Then I guess you were't that interested in her. I guess I just feel like once you start talking about the $$ of the date then all notion of romance goes out the window. It sounds more like a business transaction then a date.


There's no romance on the first date any way. But I was REALLY interested in her. It was a blind date, and low and behold, she shows up and was smokin' hot (and pretty smart and financially stable). But in addition to not paying for everything, I shot myself in the foot by actually telling her she was hot and turning into a total chatty cathy. So it pretty much went down as an epic fail all around.
 _Paradoximus_Maximus
Joined: 2/24/2009
Msg: 97
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 10:54:33 AM
Rule of life number 5 When someone says "It's not at all about money

it is about money
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 98
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 11:02:57 AM
True, sort of. It's true that I'm not made of money and I didn't want to be footing the bill for everything we did together from that moment on. But the reason I wanted her to cough up the five bones for the tip was not because I wanted to save myself $5. It was to set her expectations going forward.

Oh, and ladies... If you want to impress a guy...(and sitting there quietely while he pays for everything is not very impressive), then offer to split the bill. You know he won't be like "SURE!" because he won't want to look bad. But your willingness to pay your share will earn you points in his book. And even beyond that, he'll respect you more.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 101
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 11:42:38 AM

...You know he won't be like "SURE!" because he won't want to look bad.

How exactly does treating her offer as a sincere one, rather than as some sort of typical feminine ploy), and him regarding her as a fully capable equal rather than as a financial invalid make him look bad?!
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 102
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:08:08 PM

Fair enough. However, if a woman walked out on me because I simply offered to pay the bill, it would definitely be the last date from my end as well. It's not something I do because I think you can't take care of yourself, it's just the way I was raised. It's second nature just as holding the door open for a woman. There's no malice behind that either. Couldn't you just explain to the guy t how it makes you feel?


I guess I should have added that I tell every man I meet how I feel about this issue before we ever go out, so if he still wanted to pay for everything, yes I would get upset.

When I grew up I was taught by both of my parents, that every adult is responsible for themselves.

It hasn't been a big issue to date, and hopefully never will be.

Holding a door open isn't the same, as I have held doors open for people of all genders and ages. That is just being polite.
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 103
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:18:19 PM
As much as I'm in the other camp, I definitely respect your point of view! Have you experienced hate from men for your way of thinking?

No hate, most men appreciated that they don't have to pay for everything.

I think one thing that most can agree on is that the subject has been done to death, and it is getting to the point of pointless as I don't see anyone changing their mind.

ColonelIngus: The cloning comment was too funny. Thanks for the laugh, I really needed that!!!
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 104
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:25:53 PM
My problem with it is that I don't like the fact that rich, or insecure, men have spoiled women into thinking that guys will always pay for everything. I am neither of those things.

I always open the door for the woman, even when she gets in the car and makes me fumble with my keys to unlock my door instead of just reaching over and unlocking the door for me.

The micky d's thing got a little silly there ladies, and is besides the point.
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 105
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:36:18 PM

I always open the door for the woman, even when she gets in the car and makes me fumble with my keys to unlock my door instead of just reaching over and unlocking the door for me.

I have always been told that is one way to know if a woman is one worth keeping or not. The ones that make you fumble for your keys are the ones you kick to the curb. The ones that go ahead and reach over and unlock the door for you are the ones you keep.

There are a lot of people making fun of going to fast food restaruants. To me going somewhere like that the first time you meet is a lot better as it is more casual and puts less pressure on both. I really don't care for fancy restaruants period. A lot of money spent for food that really isn't any better than food you would make yourself at home.

I guess growing up with very practical parents has something to do with it.

Any way I am off today and as much fun as this is, time to spend time with my favorite "man". My two year old grandson. He doesn't have any problem with me picking up the bill for his food at Burger King.
 coveredinpaint
Joined: 7/13/2009
Msg: 107
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 12:53:06 PM
I open the door just to be nice and chilvalrous. All these things aren't just tests, but I do notice them and evaluate them for what they say about the girl's character/personality.
 callmelori
Joined: 12/3/2008
Msg: 110
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When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 1:38:57 PM
coveredinpaint typed...
Ugh, no. She wanted to go out as much as I did. I go out to eat all the time with friends, but I don't foot their bill just because I suggested the restaurant.
and...
It does put me in a negative light, which is why I won't do it anymore. But it shouldn't be awkward. I mean, throw down a five dollar bill for the tip and be done with it.

IF you invite a woman out and you want her to pay for all or some of the meal or the tip, then you need to say upfront when you invite her that you expect that each person will pay for their own food and drinks. Anything less is both inconsiderate and pretty much paints a picture that you are "all about the money" [read: cheap] deserved or not.

As for me, I usually pay for part or all of the bill on a first date unless the man refuses to let me. I always offer. Always. My motivation for doing this is because (1) I figure men have as many expenses as women and to expect him to pay for everything may be an undue financial burden, (2) I am in a position to help pay for meals out, and (3) I don't feel guilty if I don't want to see him again. I have a thing about a man paying for my meal or whatever and then I don't want to see him again. I feel horrible. So, it's easier for me to offer to pay for all, half, the tip than not to give any cha-ching at all. BUT, that's me. :) I've even gone as far as asking for the bill and paying it while the guy is going to the bathroom. BUT, I did see that man again and dated him for 6 months.

The thing is, unless the woman offers to give money toward the bill or you specify upfront that you expect the woman to foot half of the bill or pay for the tip, it puts you in a really bad light when you make it clear you expect her to pay. OK, OK, that's my opinion and may not be the opinion of the general masses, but then again, I pay more than the average, too.
 victoriasnewsecret
Joined: 1/23/2008
Msg: 111
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History
When the bill comes on a first date...
Posted: 7/16/2009 1:57:59 PM
Maybe it's a Jersey thing....


Aha, you're from Jersey too. I've had the same experience as you. But my friend, also from Jersey, feels like it's taking advantage of a guy to let him pay for half and typically turns down drinks that people offer to buy her as well. I personally feel that turning down a drink is cold, unless you're not interested in the person. If I was digging a guy enough to buy him a drink, I'd totally want him to take it and if I got a thank you that'd be fantastic. My friend and I have talked about this ad nauseam and never come to an agreement.

But typically, I think it's a strong sign of interest when someone wants to pay for you. In my experience, most guys who haven't willingly done so are clearly uninterested in me.
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