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 afashionlady
Joined: 4/19/2008
Msg: 27
Have 50's era men become obsolete?Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

I must not have made myself clear in the first post.


No...you were QUITE clear. You've been watching way too much TV. I asked my mother about "50's era men" and she said that you have no clue sweetie. You THINK that the men "worked hard, enjoyed simple pleasures, weren't concerned with their appearances" but nothing could be further from the truth. What you perceive to be true isn't. Men didn't change that much--men will tell you that they're simple creatures burnfaith--and they really are. Even now, men are very simple to understand and deal with. Women make it hard. The one thing you might have gotten right was that they didn't talk about their feelings--no--many of them stewed in their emotions or, even better, drank them down and away.


** By the by, people keep bringing up that men were secretly gay back then instead of openly like now - but there are still a lot of men who are probably married, with kids - but afraid of the reaction they'd receive - in this day and age.


Yes would you want to be married to a secretly gay guy? No? Well at least nowadays if you figured it out you could divorce them and move on. Back then...as a divorced woman you weren't seen in a good light.

PS...again...I'll address your profile. If you want a 50's era man, then you need to change who YOU are to get one. Dying your hair on a whim, revealing clothes, working....cursing. You want a 50's era man? You need to change and act like a 50's era woman. You can't have it both ways--you're not a 50's era man.
 eastendwoman
Joined: 7/15/2006
Msg: 28
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 5:04:33 AM
I don't understand what the womens movement has to do with it. Just because women wanted to enter the workplace and become sexually liberated is no good reason for men to stop being men. Were they so insecure deep down that if women stood up to them a little bit they high-tailed it to become effeminate or even gay? That implies that their male bravado was a farce. Was it? Could they only be in charge if the herd were simple-minded sheep? Women sought out liberation to eventually become equals intellectually as well as monetarily. Their bravado claiming that they no longer 'needed' men was simply getting even with men for doing it to them for centuries. Strength is sexy. Intelligence is sexy. Were men more 'turned on' with powder-faced simpletons? Does our stupidity make you feel like more of a man? If that's the case, then men were pulling off a charade for centuries and the strong image they projected never was real in the first place.
 expat57
Joined: 2/20/2008
Msg: 29
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History
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 5:27:33 AM
Do men wonder where is their Doris Day?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wegPFhPWVxE&feature=related
 kpooks
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 30
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History
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 6:44:20 AM
More of an Annette Funicello and Natalie Wood fan myself. They were so damn cute and ever-so-slightly dangerous while trying to be "good girls". Oh, wait--they were from the '60s, not the '50s.

Just a hint of the rebellion, female liberation, sexual promiscuity and drug culture to come in those early '60s while still maintaining a bit of June Cleaver squeaky-clean sensibility. The late '60s look a bit too weird and out there for my taste. I was born in '65, to squeaky-clean, nerdy IBM '50s-era parents (whom I love), so I come from a '50s era background. I guess my sensibility is somewhere between clean and grungy.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 31
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 7:25:21 AM

I'm not saying I wish the dynamic now to be similar to the 50's - there was a different breed of men back in the day. They worked hard all their life, enjoyed simple pleasures and weren't overly concerned with their appearance. That aspect of men for the most part seems to have lessened quite bit.


And what I am saying is that you know nothing about men from the 50s or before. My dad bathed once, maybe twice, a week--literally--so if you want a guy who isn't overly concerned with his appearance, do you want that? How about a man who doesn't use deodorant? What YOU know about these men is what you think you see in movies and stereotypical portrayals.

WHERE do you get the idea that men, and now women, don't work hard all their lives? That is pure silliness. There is a multitude of men who go to work every day and slave their asses off to support their families. Some men are deadbeats, but guess what? They existed pre 1960, as well.


And don't get me wrong - I'll be the first to admit that I wish more men were the "strong, silent types" despite any personal issues they may have along with that. I'm just not a fan of discussing things to the bone - and talking about domestic abuse? I'd be willing to stake that the percentage nowadays isn't so far off, if it's not higher.


Then find a man who grunts to you. They still exist. I was married to one for 25 years.

Domestic violence is in the open now. Back then, women who had bruised faces "ran into doors" and there was largely a "don't ask, don't tell policy."

Again, you idealize a time of which you truly know nothing. If you think that you know about the era by watching movies, you are grossly mistaken.


** By the by, people keep bringing up that men were secretly gay back then instead of openly like now - but there are still a lot of men who are probably married, with kids - but afraid of the reaction they'd receive - in this day and age.


You misunderstand the point we were trying to make: some of the men who were idolized by women were gay. IT WAS A LIE PERPETUATED BY MOVIE STUDIOS AND THE STARS SO THEY COULD MAKE MONEY.


I don't want a woman with pink or purple hair (though there's nothing wrong with that), takes less than two hours in the bathroom or is strong-willed. I'd like June Cleaver from LITB, Mary Tyler Moore


I never knew a woman like June Cleaver in my neighborhood, but then, I lived in poor neighborhoods. The women there wore old housedresses or pedal pushers and cooked whatever was available.

As far as taking two hours in the bathroom, get real! Do you think that June kept that perfect coif by running a comb through her hair? No way. She put her hair in curlers every night and carefully applied her make-up in the morning.

It is also interesting that you mention MTM--yes, as****Van Dyke's wife, she was almost a 50s' mom, but she began some of the trends that took us away from the view. For one, she wore pants on the show!

But beyond that, she went on to star in her own show as a SINGLE woman making it in a man's world. Yes, she got wimpy on occasion, but she didn't need a man to support her.


So, womanly women, where the hell are you gals?


I am a womanly woman, but my concept of a manly man is not a stereotypical figure from the 50s (a time in which I actually lived and experienced.).
 nebula22
Joined: 8/14/2007
Msg: 32
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 7:48:29 AM
OP , If you want a real man,, Be a real woman in every sense.
There are real men left in this world but they are few and far between.
Most of the men today have been raised by their mother only because their mother cheated on their father and ended in divorce...
Most have not had a chance to learn from their fathers who was working their butts off trying to pay child support and survive at the same time.

Very few have had a chance to see first hand how a man should be.

If you want a video game playing BOY , you can find millions of them..
Finding a real man is going to be a challenge..
You will need to remain single and unattached so as to be available when you do meet a real man..
If you settle for less than what you want it will be your own fault.
Don't be fooled by the bad boy crap, thinking that is a real man...
Never jump into a relationship..
Take your time to really get to know anyone before thinking , This is the one...

Another thing,,,, Don't be a liar or a cheater..
Karma is REAL....

You should also realize that you will need to be willing to give older guys a chance as the younger ones are still BOYs..

Good luck..
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 33
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 8:07:01 AM

I don't want a woman [ . . . ] or is strong-willed.


I just realized that you wrote that--so, you admit that you want a weak-willed woman who bows to you? A woman who would never argue or disagree? One who looks at you with adoring eyes ALL the time and says, "Yes, sir"? One who is totally dependent on you? I guess your attitude belies all the men who say they want a woman who isn't independent but they don't mind if she is "strong."

Or maybe you are being sarcastic--I can never tell on these forums.





OP , If you want a real man,, Be a real woman in every sense.
There are real men left in this world but they are few and far between. Most of the men today have been raised by their mother only because their mother cheated on their father and ended in divorce...

Most have not had a chance to learn from their fathers who was working their butts off trying to pay child support and survive at the same time.

You should also realize that you will need to be willing to give older guys a chance as the younger ones are still BOYs..


OP, there you have it from the horse's mouth: From a REAL MAN , just like the type that you want. I suggest that you jump on him because you might not get another chance!




Yes, this is true, it was all propaganda, unlike the following"

It is also interesting that you mention MTM--yes, as****Van Dyke's wife, she was almost a 50s' mom, but she began some of the trends that took us away from the view. For one, she wore pants on the show!

This, with marlo thomasas" That Girl" were real life, the studios and hollywood had no part in the production of these shows

They were real leaders in the womens movement, and fortunetly, never noticed the hidden cameras following them.


As usual, another person who misses the point. Of course MTM's show was filmed on a set, but within it, there was the beginning of a social shift. Idealized, you bet, but it still had the seeds of the image of the woman going alone without a man to support and take care of her as we saw in Dick Van Dyke, Father Knows Best, Make Room for Daddy, Leave it to Beaver, The Donna Reed Show, Dennis the Menace, Ozzie and Harriet and others I can't remember. Notice that even though it was Donna Reed's show, she was still married to a man who provided the ballast in her life.

The question is continually asked if the media mirrors society, society mirrors what it sees in the media, or if it is a symbiotic relationship. Regardless, TV in the 60s shifted away from the pleasant family life portrayal of the 50s and early 60s not only with shows like MTM, but shows such as All in the Family where daddy was shown not to be the fount of wisdom, but a human being with flaws and foibles like women and children.

That led on to satires such as Married with Children where the daddy was discontent and unhappy with his life: The antithesis of the 50s' father.

Anyone who buys into the stereotypical aspects of TV or movies needs to take a reality check, but nevertheless, the media has been chronicling shifts in societies since Inanna mourned the loss of her temples and the "first" murder trial in the The Oresteia.
 Gwendolyn2010
Joined: 1/22/2006
Msg: 34
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 10:39:59 AM

Yeah, I was just being a smartass. I'd actually like a girl with brains like you, or forum filly. I really like reading both your posts.


Being a bit of a smartass myself, I understand--it is just hard to determine intent when you don't know a person, can't hear voice inflections, or see facial expressions.

But I am a woman, not a girl. :)
 Eibu
Joined: 1/18/2009
Msg: 35
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 10:41:50 AM
a lot of them still exists...some of them dont have all their stuff together yet *sigh*
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 36
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 11:00:20 AM

They worked hard all their life, enjoyed simple pleasures and weren't overly concerned with their appearance.


What a clueless statement. The fifties was a time notorious for Vaseline on the hair, men wore hats and suit and ties, and argyle sweaters and other than the James Dean and Marlon Brando who wore jeans, the majority wore slack and were extremely concerned with their appearance, their car, their "look". And all the material possessions and gadgets that the modern world was able to provide them.
 Nice2phku
Joined: 2/14/2008
Msg: 37
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 11:08:45 AM
We are still here, just old. smile. If you want someone from the 50's you have to date men wh0 are from that era. If you are 18 and seeking men from the fifties I am sure there will be many of us to oblige you. Just message us and see.
 NoQuarterGiven
Joined: 3/18/2009
Msg: 38
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 11:51:17 AM
masculine, feminine are meaningless words. Is a man with the courage and confidence to stay home and raise children "feminine" because he's doing a job traditionally done by women? Are confident women all butch and manly?

People take charge in certain situations, fall back and follow in others, and frankly I pity someone who is one-dimensional enough to be rigidly confident in every situation. If everyone was a leader/ take charge type than everyone would be giving orders and no one would be following them. It's cliche but it takes all types of people to make the world work.

I'm happy to say I don't fit the traditional model of the "manly" man. I don't use women and throw them away. I don't think the world revolves around me. I have feelings and I care what other people think and how they feel. At the same time I like sports, I have a high sex drive and I'm ambitious and driven. But because I don't totally fit the "masculine" ideal I'm unattractive to the OP. Oh well, I'd rather be me than some cardboard cut out of a neanderthal stereotype.
 jadegreen
Joined: 2/3/2006
Msg: 39
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History
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 11:53:15 AM
We can acknowledge the fact the Clint Eastwoods typical acting parts were just a part of his job...we can acknowlege that he played these parts well....He got into his character really well b/c he did have a natural no-nonsense persona? And you gotta acknowledge that the movie writers back in that day did have some skills for capturing this tough man image on film. Young boys in your age group are still learning what "manhood is" and some are lacking in male role models in their lives, but hopefully some will "spring forth?"... Behind some manly men is a female that accepts them for the way they are and that nurtures their courage to become a strong man and sometimes on rare occassion a guy comes along that is so naturally "tough" and "heroic" he don't even need any inspiration to be so...he just IS.....
 bcsofnc57
Joined: 11/20/2007
Msg: 40
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 7:46:20 PM

Many men are also out there desperately looking for the 'feminine' woman, the one who doesn't have to stand in front of her man, but is happy to stand behind him and support him when he faulters, rather than criticise and make him feel emasculated.


Instead of standing in front or in back of the man, why not stand side by side going through life together taking on whatever life has to offer them together? Each there to support the other when one faulters.
 scuzzlebutt
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 41
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History
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 8:57:22 PM
Oh hai. ...Wassup?
 radikal1
Joined: 7/4/2009
Msg: 42
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 9:11:04 PM
The irony is that we all want the badgirl/badboy, that's only good to us, which isn't normally the way it works. The guy who uses women and discards them will always be the guy who uses women and discards them but will always have women that's attracted to his attitude and charms. Rarely are they "The guy who uses women and discards them -BUT FALL IN LOVE WITH YOU. If he does this and changes then will you still love that guy? He's soft now. Maybe still strong and silent or whatever. And either way you'll eventually get tired of that soon enough and cheat on him. Your reason will be "he's not supportive" or "he doesn't communicate" or whatever.

And let's get some 50s era ladies back here. The kind that guy a rats @$$ about a guy as opposed to simply saying they do.

@ scuzzlebutt LOL'd @ your profile pics.

-Nate
 scuzzlebutt
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 43
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Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 10:08:24 PM

@ scuzzlebutt LOL'd @ your profile pics.


lol finally somebody gets it.
 Zephyr2553
Joined: 12/28/2008
Msg: 44
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/14/2009 10:19:48 PM
Oh trust me, Sweetie, they are very much alive and "well". You don't have to look far to find them. They'll be at the antique car shows or at the race track.

They'll now be at the VA or the Amvets. Many of them are wonderful men. But many of them are also so frozen in their own era that they have become inflexible and inflexibility is a sign of insanity.

My dad is a WWII vet but he wears Sketchers and his hat on backwards and listens to all kinds of music without complaint or judgement. He is open to all life has to offer.

You may find that 50's men are not what you thought they would be. Doo Wop and Rootbeer can be v e r y boring in a very short time.

But those qualities you have described are not franchised by the old Geezers from the 50's. Some of the younger, studleys are just as macho and don't have girl boobs...lol
 burnfaith
Joined: 11/19/2008
Msg: 45
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/15/2009 12:06:02 AM
Never thought this thread would produce so many posts.

After reading through the comments I realized that rather then discussing the topic I thought I was presenting (which, believe me, I've apparently been very freaking mistaken about what I meant) - most of the posts are discussing how naive, young and stupid I am.

Granted, I read the posts and maybe I don't understand the entirety of the subject I proposed but honestly? You win. I'm a stupid, misinformed, naive and young with a very unappealing profile.

Have fun with the bashing.

- A
 cooldude
Joined: 4/26/2004
Msg: 46
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/15/2009 2:17:22 AM

Never thought this thread would produce so many posts.

After reading through the comments I realized that rather then discussing the topic I thought I was presenting (which, believe me, I've apparently been very freaking mistaken about what I meant) - most of the posts are discussing how naive, young and stupid I am.

Granted, I read the posts and maybe I don't understand the entirety of the subject I proposed but honestly? You win. I'm a stupid, misinformed, naive and young with a very unappealing profile.

Have fun with the bashing.


I thought most people were bring honest answers & thought provoking discussion. I don't see where they thought you were necessarily that naive or the rest of what you mentioned.


After reading through the comments I realized that rather then discussing the topic I thought I was presenting


Or rather they were the not the answers you wanted to hear or were expecting? For the answers you want to hear you will have to go elsewhere for that. Yes, people are capable of independent thought & ideas different then your own & I don't call that bashing.
 jadegreen
Joined: 2/3/2006
Msg: 47
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History
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/15/2009 8:39:35 AM
I think even if the OP and other posters here did not live in the 50's era...we can still pick up on what image was kinda popular for men in this decade...I've seen it mentioned alot about violence of that decade or perhaps domestic violence. Violence has been a consistent fact of life since beginning of time. If it were not...we would have no wars...Perhaps what is meant is during that period in time at least a man might "try " to save you from another violent man...(aside from the laws in place at that time, I'm sure there musta been some heroes in secret on the side)....Could this be what OP meant? How many young men now would jump in and save you if you were being hit today? Some of these guys getting pedicures today would worry about getting scratches on their hands...Are instincts for protecting the weak gone...Are reflexes dulled...we've become by standers? Desensitized? (sorry don't know if i spelled that right..lol)

Perhaps we should not be so "snobbish" of brawny men these days and critique what they are wearing, if they didn't shower so quickly after working b/c they wanted to sit a minute and rest...Perhaps if we weren't such a "vain" society caught up in waxing our eyebrows and bodies we would see more of them? Time spent on vanity is time away from other things....

I will agree with prior poster that since you are attractive the bashing could be much worse...but that still don't make it right...If I say that you are younger...I am only stating a "fact" and it is not intended to talk down to you or lessen your opinion, but only to place your opinion in perspective...
 expat57
Joined: 2/20/2008
Msg: 48
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History
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/15/2009 8:43:40 AM
While you presented a topic for conversation, just as in our day-to-day lives, the conversation evolves as each person contributes. It's not as if this thread was hijacked but not all comments are directed at your initial post. As with all information, take from it what you can use now, mentally file that which may be of interest later, forget the rest.

Your subject line question '50's men' and your examples, Eastwood and Chris Noth's character 'Big', became the topic to discuss as that was the topic presented. Perhaps you hoped more for a discussion about the type of man interesting to you not being in your immediate proximity and your wondering if they even exist. Now THAT is a topic that has been done and done again and again. Perhaps forum posters enjoyed clicking into a thread that offered a new angle to discuss. Your initial indication comes through as though you felt they once existed but don't now. The the ideal you've romanticized, forum denizens have collectively mused, likely never existed and the conversation took on that twist.

There are men out there like you describe. As with the examples you've suggested (Eastwood/Big), their modern counterparts are not without their quirks that may or may not be considered flaws in the eyes of the beholder. When you meet your Match, you won't consider them flaws. You'll love him as he is. Quite a few of the comments offered, however, are about the pitfall of flaws that cannot be overlooked in the stereotype you introduced in your initial question. That is surely a more interesting discussion than yet another group-bashing of men in general or, as you perceived, a free-for-all against you. Neither of those negatives happened in this thread.

Enjoy the conversation as it is. Drop back in and gently and cheerfully bring up clarifying ideas to carry the conversation along if you had another path for the thread. Remember not everyone reads the whole thread before posting a reply so some will continue to respond only to the initial topic as it was presented.
 expat57
Joined: 2/20/2008
Msg: 49
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Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/15/2009 9:04:47 AM
..and the examples in my own profile? Give me Rose over Martin any day but the idea of Martin .. whew .. if he could've been faithful and wasn't such a heavy drinker... Yeah, the perfect man, on celluloid. In the real world, he would've been a heartache I'd pass on. Did I ever find my Rose counterpart? In my late husband, yes. Kind, brilliant, focused, attentive, known local character, anything but mainstream. Easily beats Rose for my attention hands down. My current love? He's in a class all his own and I adore him for that.

The man who will trip your trigger in all the ways you hope for is out there. Holding out for that which you seek rather than settling before you meet him will be a challenge you may decide isn't your path after all. At 18, your interests and ideals are likely to change greatly over the next few years. At 18, it's common to believe such changes won't be so for you, but we all, all of us, have changed dramatically since age 18. You will too. Saying so isn't a stab at your age or naivety. It's just a fact of life shared here by those who were born before you. Enjoy the forums. Have fun here. Participate in the conversation without feeling frustration or anger or annoyance. When any of us are getting ourselves worked up over words on a computer screen, it's time to turn off the computer and enjoy the sunshine for spell before dropping back in.
 head.cloud123
Joined: 5/29/2009
Msg: 50
Have 50's era men become obsolete?
Posted: 7/15/2009 9:38:04 AM


I choose to be the dominate one in my relationships. I will have a woman who looks up to me and depends on me as her rock (emotionally and otherwise) and looks to me for protection. The strong women will often attempt to shame those of us like this and make stupid comments about us wanting submissive japanese women with their ankles tied up or some other drastic nonsense logical fallacy to make us look ridiculous, but this is what makes men real men. Doing and going for what they believe in even in the face of strong opinions against you. I just see that women naturally will defer to men strong enough. These "powerful women" become jellyfish when confronted with the right man who stands his ground and has a commanding presence. Alpha male or powerful man in no way implies grumpy man who orders everyone around and expects to be obeyed at every word, either. He just respects himself and follows through on all things he believes in and accepts his masculine responsibility and expects his female(s) to be there to support and gently guide his decisions. Other women can do whatever they want, but they will go and do it with lesser men who will tolerate women going against their nature. Then the women will complain there aren't any men. Nope, they're just not with you because you are not woman, instead you are only the shell of one, just like men without backbone. Pretty exterior but no substance!


A woman who wants a man to be her emotional rock instead of being the emotional rock for her family will probably not be a good mother or an asset to a man's career. Its is traditional women who are supposed to be strong not the other way around.
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