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 AUTHOR
 Verzen
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 712
Evolution. Page 29 of 64    (24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64)
I love how Epicetus seems to think that asexual reproduction is impossible.
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 713
Evolution.
Posted: 3/23/2010 11:16:00 PM

don't crazy people think everyone else is crazy?


Not all of us, despite what the voices tell me .
 FrogO_Oeyes
Joined: 8/21/2005
Msg: 714
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 3/23/2010 11:34:38 PM

but it seems you know it all OK

Your personal motto?

One autotrophic pre-biotic cell is all that's required. It consists of a phospholipid bilayer which requires no "code" for replication. The contained chemical soup undergoes spontaneous reaction "downhill". Environmental energy sources, most likely light, resets those reactions. Voila. Cyclical reaction chain in an enclosing membrane. DNA hasn't even entered the picture, but it's already self-sustaining, evolving, AND reproducing. Add a couple of ribonucletides which catalyze the formation of an energy-storing compound, such as ADP, from environmental materials, and you have life. An almost trivial genetic code which converts raw materials into one chemical which uses an energy source to re-start a chemical cycle.

Move a tiny step ahead...


sorry, there are no hosts around.... just your one lone bug

Most bacteria require no hosts. Even those which do, are actually using "raw" materials of the host, rather than consuming, for example, entire cells. The point is, that a simple prokaryotic cell needs only raw materials and energy. One cell...which can grow and divide in two in ten minutes. In one day, a primordial cell in its natal environment could reproduce to a population of 1x2^144 [minus any deaths]. It has no enemies - it's the first life. It has a safe environment - that's why it came to exist in the first place. It evolves - with each growth and division cycle it takes in resources and gives the nucleotide chain a chance to grow and change overall function.

Now that you've mastered debate-by-fallacy, perhaps you could try debate-WITHOUT-fallacy?
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 715
Evolution.
Posted: 3/24/2010 5:52:53 AM

No IMO LIFE is an intergalactic infection... and it has numerous seed types that all culminate in one super-organism


So let me get this straight...you're arguing against evolution, opting instead for an extreme form of panspermia. And yet, that life had to develop somewhere, didn't it?

Not only that, but even in a situation where life is transplanted, still you argue against that life evolving through natural selective processes because...it doesn't want to? What? What am I missing?

So rather than saying "God," you're saying "LIFE." Have I summarized your position fairly well?
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 716
Evolution.
Posted: 3/24/2010 3:25:29 PM
I'm curious - why do you assume that life (or, more specifically to your rant, evolution) HAS any kind of 'direction'? There seems to be a compulsion among some people to want to have some external motivator for their lives - rather than considering the possibility (near-certitude...?) that there is NO overriding meaning... and that we, both as individuals and as groups, are the sole determiners of our paths?

What degree of an inferiority-complex is necessary, to have this apparent desire to be nothing more than puppets on a string... pets on a leash... pawns in some cosmic game of chess? Isn't being the master of your own fate preferable to being a slave to whatever deity it is you cling to?
 susan_cd
Joined: 5/16/2007
Msg: 717
Evolution.
Posted: 3/24/2010 8:43:56 PM

all life-forms have innate knowledge...


Trees & algae have innate knowledge? What about bread mold?


they don't learn how to look after offspring..


Male bears sure don't. Or gerbils when they eat their young.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 718
Evolution.
Posted: 3/24/2010 9:37:48 PM

There is no free will... we are completely controlled by our genetics....


And THAT would be a total load of crap as well as being a cop-out.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 719
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 6:30:47 AM
Actually, Ep, the word and theory you're looking for is "Gaia." It's an elegant idea and one that's been around for quite a while. However, nothing you've talked about has done anything to unseat evolution as the predominant theory for the development of life forms on this planet or what we might expect to see on any other planet.

You see, a clear understanding of evolution isn't just needed for biology, but for other processes including cosmology.


SO.... a cosmic rock with LIFE germination has become an Earth you know..... this is no mean feat... it also has direction, purpose and intelligence


...so you've repeatedly insisted and yet provided NOTHING in the way of evidence for your "hypothesis." Your devotion to this quaint but unprovable idea of yours is now going beyond sad. Can we move on, please?
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 720
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 3:33:10 PM

Insightful article if you understand what you are reading.... LOL


So...what? Evolution does a good job of finding new and novel ways to deal with different problems or take advantage of new opportunities. This is evolution at its finest.
 Island home
Joined: 7/5/2009
Msg: 721
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 3:45:33 PM

but some may be interested to learn instead of huffin'n'puffin BS

Is it facts in dispute or is it the theories derived from facts?
 Jiperly
Joined: 8/30/2006
Msg: 722
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 4:36:00 PM
I'm sorry.....did....did Epi say that plants eat dirt?

Plants filter out nutrients from dirt. We filter out nutrients from dead life, be it plant or animal. We're both doing the same thing- its just that we get it through different means.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 723
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 5:38:45 PM
Paul...

What exactly do you think mutations are? DNA is altered continually - via sexual recombination, via copying errors, via ionizing radiation.

Or are you referring to the idea that the atomic makeup of the nucleotides themselves don't change? I'm no biochemist, but I rather doubt that assertion is true either.

You may as well ask why oxygen hasn't changed in how IT works... because just like oxygen, the functioning of DNA is nothing more than chemical bonds breaking and recombining.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 724
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 5:47:57 PM

Included in LIFE is oxygen and water.... both manufactured by LIFE and part of LIFE, the life's blood and electron (energy) giver
The other life-gas is carbon dioxide... however this gas is naturally present,,, ie it is stable in the Universe


Where DO you get these ideas from...? Oxygen and water are NOT 'manufactured' by life - they can be RELEASED through chemical reactions that are a *part* of the process that gave rise to life, but they were manufactured in the cores of stars - thermonuclear fusion reactions that gave rise to all the elements on the Periodic Table. Water is so abundant for the simple reason that oxygen is highly reactive and bonds readily with hydrogen.


"I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it." -Voltaire


You'll notice that nobody here has attempted to force your silence - all they've done is shown where your arguments are baseless, fallacious, or just plain silly. Contrasted against the self-appointed 'Purveyors of Truth' that are prevalent in organized religions... who are fond of all manner of censorship - from book-burnings to threats of violence - the reaction to your postings have been downright accepting.

To equate counter-arguments with persecution is a symptom of paranoid delusion, is it not...?
 Verzen
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 725
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 7:48:24 PM

so reactive it does not naturally exist in an elemental state

Stars.. kinda create oxygen as a byproduct...
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 726
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 9:01:45 PM

Through all of the trillions of changes that organisms have gone through in order to evolve to where they are now, DNA hasn't changed its shape, or how it works. The "information" it carries changes, like you said, but basically it has not changed. Its like having a train that has more cars, less cars, different color cars, but there are still the same size tracks and the train cars still have wheels..................... That hasn't changed..........


I'll ask the question, why should it? Can you give any reason a triple helix is either advantageous to the organism or even possible?
 Verzen
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 727
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 9:18:34 PM

Maybe I didn't phrase the question correctly. DNA is a double helix shaped "thing"..... How come it has never "evolved" to a triple helix, or just two straight lines, like a ladder, with rungs inbetween.

That's not how chemistry works. DNA works like that just like how chemistry works. Water doesn't evolve to get more oxygen molecules. You just don't understand how evolution or science itself works.
 Verzen
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 728
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 9:57:03 PM
Krebby, what are you a college professor of?
 Verzen
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 729
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 10:06:23 PM

Remember all articles are written... not necessarily by scientific people

You had me at "Remember all articles are written... not necessarily by scientific people"
This means that I don't have to read the article because the article is pseudoscience filled with opinion.
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 730
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 10:23:15 PM
hey paul


that ladder thing with the info of all of our cells is 3ft long, literally.
that cell has a whole lot more things going on in it too.
now I have to check this out some more, but apparently those simple single cell critters have more info in them than large libraries.

sounds a little far fetched, but, all of it does.

http://luysii.wordpress.com/2010/03/22/the-cell-nucleus-and-its-dna-on-a-human-scale-i/
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 731
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 3/25/2010 10:25:02 PM
it's all opinion, until the next 'discovery'.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 732
Evolution.
Posted: 3/26/2010 5:55:02 AM

so reactive it does not naturally exist in an elemental state
maybe as a plasma in space.... but not as O2 in an atmosphere.... LIFE made it


Try again. Elemental oxygen is not common because it tends to bond to itself. It's short two electrons in its' outermost shell, so it will bond with anything that is *also* missing one or more electrons.
 RocketMan_Len
Joined: 7/5/2006
Msg: 733
Evolution.
Posted: 3/26/2010 6:01:53 AM
Paul...


DNA is a double helix shaped "thing"..... How come it has never "evolved" to a triple helix, or just two straight lines, like a ladder, with rungs inbetween.


As Verzen stated earlier - the composition of DNA is determined by the laws of chemistry. It can't change to a triple-helix because it is physically unable to form bonds that way.

The same question could be phrased as 'Why is an oxygen molecule comprised of two atoms instead of four?" - because that configuration isn't stable enough to last long. (Even O3 - ozone - destabilizes rapidly, and needs to be continually replenished.)
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 734
Evolution.
Posted: 3/26/2010 6:07:19 AM

As Verzen stated earlier - the composition of DNA is determined by the laws of chemistry. It can't change to a triple-helix because it is physically unable to form bonds that way.


And that's why any creationist arguments against evolution being too "improbable" is specious. It's not probability but chemistry that's in charge.
 lateā„¢
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 735
Evolution.
Posted: 4/11/2010 8:55:31 PM
A couple of things I spotted of some interest:

South African fossils could be new hominid species
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8609192.stm


First oxygen-free animals found
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/8609246.stm
 aremeself
Joined: 12/31/2008
Msg: 736
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/14/2010 11:19:47 PM
and we still don't know sheet.

AND it is like you say, discovery, not anything new.

in other words, its all been there forever, we are just STARTING to open our eyes, or are we?
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