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 AUTHOR
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 1054
Evolution.Page 42 of 64    (24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63, 64)
Oh Krebby...stop lecturing me. Like I am stupid and I do not understand
the ways of the world. Forget your way...I promise to forget mine. I may
not have a true picture of you and for kripes sake, neither do you of me.
I am as aware as you are of any monkey business attached to any bloody
business practice inflicted on the long suffering masses. Happy Easter,
anyways... faraway , clever smarty pants. I hope the sun shines on both
you, me and the rest of the evolution forum crowd.We need warm sun. Its been a long
and insufferable Winter in the Northern Hemisphere. smile.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 1055
Evolution.
Posted: 4/23/2011 1:49:31 AM
Oh jeez...technology..ahead of me. I agree with you and honour your choice.
But I draw the line at disrespecting those who chose to continue to dirty
their hands and fix whats wrong with our advanced lives. And the circle is unbroken and here we are.
 60to70
Joined: 7/28/2008
Msg: 1056
Evolution.
Posted: 4/23/2011 3:08:32 AM
Hey Krebby...before I bed myself...so are you..hopeless. You go to your working holiday and figure out why we are being screwed for our gas. I already figured the conundrum. Its called supply and demand. And according to the news I watched today the Americans are right up there in the demand AND figure in the problems in the Middle, Not so Middle and Far East....etc. etc. If I could walk, I would. But if I cannot,
screw me...its supply and demand and the rest of the rigamorole. Please. The true cause of gas price hikes is our willingness to pay and pay and pay because...da, da, da...we are addicted to our mode of transportation and wellllllll...get used to walking. At least, according to your NBC News American cable nightly report and what else is there to say, sir. Oil is apparently a finite resource. Witness China and its reliance on wood from imported sources. They stripped their country of wood. Oh well. We have lots here in Canada to provide then with. Etc. Etc. Yawn. Goodnite. (I think they are exploring alternative building practices. So.) God, education and enlightment are the way, eh. Let me know if there is indeed a light at the end of the tunnel. I do have children and I am frightened for their future..more so than my parents would have been for mine. And its only been 40 years or so. Remember 50 cents a gallon gas prices. Oh well. signing off..not so hopeless 60 to 70, Mr. Sir.
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 1057
Evolution.
Posted: 4/23/2011 4:11:12 AM
What's superstition got to do with anything? I'm a YEC (Young Earth Creationist) and I'm not superstitious.

Well, you believe in god and you ignore science, so obviously, you ARE superstitious.

Contrary to popular belief, I believe Genesis 1 could have been written before anything else at all and written by God before He made man.

How can you possibly claim to not be superstitious with a straight face?

The advantage of evolution is no different than the advantage of creationism, for those who adhere to either.

Sure there's a difference. The advantage to the theory of evolution is that it makes predictions that can be tested and so far those have all been verified. Can you use creationism to make inferences about viruses and bacteria that allow you to create vaccines and antibiotics? (That's a rhetorical question.)
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1058
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/23/2011 6:27:06 AM
@FrankNStein902, Either you do not know what the word "superstition" means, or you have the wrong idea of Christianity.
If God wrote some of it, I'm not 100% sure, but He probably wrote it in Hebrew. Yes it's 100% accurate.

No, I've not been to the Creation museum. But I bet it's more educational than all the museums I've been to put together.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1059
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/23/2011 11:06:16 AM
Wikipedia says "Superstition is a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge."

I have knowledge and reason to believe in God.

The Bible proves God. Check out the science in it that are only just coming to light from secular science.

Anyway, happy Dinosaur slayer day! .......... (St George's Day).
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 1060
Evolution.
Posted: 4/23/2011 2:05:07 PM
Wikipedia says "Superstition is a credulous belief or notion, not based on reason or knowledge."

I have knowledge and reason to believe in God.

That's what every superstitious person thinks about whatever irrational beliefs he/she has. You're no different from the people who believe in voodoo or ghosts or dowsing, tarot cards, etc. You're all superstitious and prefer to believe in magic than educate yourselves.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 1061
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/23/2011 6:03:33 PM

How many people wearing the symbol of Christianity pillaged, killed, raped women and molested innocent children?

All this because of this god of yours wants to make people believe that a higher intelligence acutally gives a flying hoot.


Not because of, despite. People have been murdered in the name of one woman, or one man, or a "superior race" as well. Psychos, zealots, schizophrenics, etc. have all excused their actions with religion, love , etc., but how unfair of you to blame murder on theism (or atheism, were you so inclined).


Think about it... For centuries all over the world, thousands and thousands of these christians give money in a basket. If you do not give it is seen as a shameful thing. I cannot beleive that people are not even aware of the manipulation behind all of this.


Thousands and thousands of people, Christian & otherwise, have given money to organizations they support, as well as to other countries. You fail to make a distinction between business entities & a belief in God. They are, in fact, distinct.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1062
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 4:37:52 AM

That's what every superstitious person thinks about whatever irrational beliefs he/she has. You're no different from the people who believe in voodoo or ghosts or dowsing, tarot cards, etc. You're all superstitious and prefer to believe in magic than educate yourselves.


It is through education that I've come to know that voodoo, ghosts and tarot cards to be true. As are psychics, mediums, witches, demonic possession, Holy Spirit possession etc. Of course there are some fraudulant tricksters too though.

One obvious science fact in the Bible is that the life is in the blood. For 2000 years up until the 19th century, we used to have blood letters, taking out your blood to make you better from illness. This is how George Washington died in 1799. Doctors took out 9 pints of his blood and it killed him. It's in Lev 17:11, Lev 17:14 and Deut 12:23. If only they read the Bible...

While other sources stated the Earth sat on the back of an elephant or was held up by Atlas, Job 26:7 states the Earth hangs on nothing - which we now know to be true.

Hebrews 11:3 states that creation is made of particles that are not seen by the human eye - it wasn't until the 19th century that science discovered this.

In Job 38:16 it states the oceans have springs - until recently it was thought the oceans were fed only by rivers and rain. It wasn't until the 1970s when we delevoped deep diving research submarines that oceanographers discovered springs on the ocean floors.

Would you like more examples?
 abelian
Joined: 1/12/2008
Msg: 1063
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 6:59:03 AM

It is through education that I've come to know that voodoo, ghosts and tarot cards to be true. As are psychics, mediums, witches, demonic possession, Holy Spirit possession etc. Of course there are some fraudulant tricksters too though.

You should ask for a refund on your education. Your money was wasted.
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 1064
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 6:59:08 AM
The bible is full of contradictions. Not sure if it was differences of opinions about the "infallible truth", or that they were dealing with multiple gods or one with multiple personalities disorder when they wrote down the history and rules of that/those gods.
http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1065
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 10:28:50 AM

^^You may as well include a discussion of everything the bible got WRONG as well.

God has got some problems when the bible states that plants were created before the sun, when there could be no photosynthesis to drive their chemical processes.

God gave us herbs, but since many plants have evolved toxins to protect against animals that would like to eat them, god's advice is more than a little reckless.

We know that rabbits don't chew their cud, and bats are not birds, Ostriches aren't cruel parents, and we also would not treat leprosy by sprinkling the afflicted with the blood of a bird or dipping lepers in the Jordan. Gods cure for snakebite (a brass serpent on a pole) would hardly be efficacious either.

He hardly "hath made every thing beautiful" either. If god really wanted us to have good company, why did he also create bacterial pneumonias, tuberculosis, pertussis, diphtheria, bacterial meningitis, gonorrhea, syphilis, bubonic plague, endemic typhus, leptospirosis, cholera, typhoid fever and tetanus? Maybe I've just not looked at this from god's eyes.


The Bible didn't get anything wrong. Plants can survive a day without the sun.

God's advice is not reckless. This can be solved with one of the following: God told man and the animals which plants to avoid, God instilled the knowledge into all creation as to what can be eaten, or plants did not develop toxins until God cursed the ground during the Fall due to man's disobedience.

The Hebrew phrase for ‘chew the cud’ simply means ‘raising up what has been swallowed’. Coneys and rabbits go through such similar motions to ruminants that Linnaeus, the father of modern classification (and a creationist), at first classified them as ruminants. Also, rabbits and hares practise refection, which is essentially the same principle as rumination, and does indeed ‘raise up what has been swallowed’. The food goes right through the rabbit and is passed out as a special type of dropping. These are re-eaten, and can now nourish the rabbit as they have already been partly digested.
It is not an error of Scripture that ‘chewing the cud’ now has a more restrictive meaning than it did in Moses’ day. Indeed, rabbits and hares do ‘chew the cud’ in an even more specific sense.

It is only in modern science that bats are not called as birds. Thousands of years ago, bats were seen as birds because they can fly. Just because modern science has changed it's classification of animals, doesn't make the Bible wrong.

Where does the Bible say ostriches are cruel parents? The only 2 mentions of ostriches say that they leave eggs in the warm ground and in another book saying that ostriches in the desert are cruel. But nothing about them being "cruel parents".

The curing of leprosy, snakebites or anything else can be cured by the power of God.

Your last paragraph is explained by God's curse as punishment for Adam and Eve's disobedience.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1066
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 10:32:33 AM

The bible is full of contradictions. Not sure if it was differences of opinions about the "infallible truth", or that they were dealing with multiple gods or one with multiple personalities disorder when they wrote down the history and rules of that/those gods.
http://www.evilbible.com/Biblical%20Contradictions.htm


Old news. All apparent contradictions have been debunked already. The Bible contains no contradictions or errors. And contains information that no man could have known - thus making it inspired by an all-knowing being - which I've already demonstrated.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1068
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 11:43:23 AM

So if man was made in gods image, why do men have nipples?


http://wiki.answers.com/Q/Why_do_men_have_nipples

"It's left over from early fetal development - at a certain point we were just a fetus with an undetermined gender, and then a flood of hormones came along in utero and told us what gender we were going to be. Nipples are a leftover from that time. Men do have mammary tissue, anyway. Just a tiny, tiny bit of it.

During conception, each fertilized egg starts out with an X chromosome (from the mother) and an X or Y chromosome from the father, which determines their gender. XX will be a female, and XY will be a male. During fetal development, what started out as an undetermined gender gets developed during the fetal stage into a male or a female."

They are also errogenous zones. I'd rather have nipples, than not have them.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1069
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 12:40:28 PM
Why is it clear the writers of Genesis did not know what photosynthesis is? Plants were made one day, the sun the next day. I don't see what the problem is.

From Wikipedia: "The dominant female lays her eggs first, and when it is time to cover them for incubation she discards extra eggs from the weaker females, leaving about 20 in most cases"

God can and does cure diseases, just as it is mentioned in the Bible. He can also raise the dead. 2 famous cases in our times are that of Ian McCormak and Don Piper.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 1070
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 1:36:16 PM

I don't see what the problem is.


As with all your arguments and rebuttals, it is reflective of the typical creationist tactic of facing facts and actual scientific evidence by clapping their hands over their ears and yelling "LA! LA! LA! ICKY FACTS GO AWAY!!!"
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1071
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 1:47:48 PM
Why do you ask for a specific example of healing in Africa? I've given you 2 examples of God bring back the dead.
God can cure any disease if you ask Him to. You wouldn't believe me even if I did give you examples.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 1072
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 1:53:10 PM

Why do you ask for a specific example of healing in Africa? I've given you 2 examples of God bring back the dead.
God can cure any disease if you ask Him to.


Actually, I think a large portion of Africa is actually Christian and, no doubt, the parents dying of AIDS, tuberculosis and a host of other diseases have prayed to your "god" for healing only to die anyway.

Curious, that....an entire continent ravaged by disease and war, innocent children dying by the thousands and yet "god" sits on his holy ass doing absolutely nothing about it.

Hey, maybe he's got something against Africa. After all, all the paintings of his kid all show a good, anglo-saxon boy. Hmmmm...
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1073
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 2:14:03 PM

As with all your arguments and rebuttals, it is reflective of the typical creationist tactic of facing facts and actual scientific evidence by clapping their hands over their ears and yelling "LA! LA! LA! ICKY FACTS GO AWAY!!!"


Eh? Not at all. I wouldn't be replying on here if that were the case. Quite a typical comment from a non-believer, trying to belittle people of faith. Shows a lack of argument on your behalf.
If someone thinks plants cannot survive in the dark for a day, then surely plants would die everytime the night came. Ridiculous. Besides, light was created first. So there was a source of light (probably directly from God, as God is Light) before the sun was created. So the Earth would have been warm enough for plants to surive.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 1074
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 2:20:15 PM

Eh? Not at all. I wouldn't be replying on here if that were the case. Quite a typical comment from a non-believer, trying to belittle people of faith. Shows a lack of argument on your behalf.


No, just engaged with creationists before. So basically, you're not offering us anything new here. The same old tired, intellectually lazy "arguments" heard a thousand times. It really does get quite tedious, really. Anyway...


If someone thinks plants cannot survive in the dark for a day, then surely plants would die everytime the night came. Ridiculous. Besides, light was created first. So there was a source of light (probably directly from God, as God is Light) before the sun was created.


Okay, let's discuss a little concept here called "parsimony." In essence, it's an effort toward an elimination of assumptions, not increasing. This is why creationism will never be a "science." It starts with the assumption of the supernatural and then tries to come up with more and more "reasons" to support an already untenable position.
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1075
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 2:40:44 PM

No, just engaged with creationists before. So basically, you're not offering us anything new here. The same old tired, intellectually lazy "arguments" heard a thousand times. It really does get quite tedious, really. Anyway...


Oh so you've heard of the people being brought back to life by God and the God inspired information in the Bible that no man could have known back then? So why do you still deny God knowing this information? Surely you would have research it and found that God is actually real. But of course you wouldn't research it because you don't want to have a God to tell you what to do.


Okay, let's discuss a little concept here called "parsimony." In essence, it's an effort toward an elimination of assumptions, not increasing. This is why creationism will never be a "science." It starts with the assumption of the supernatural and then tries to come up with more and more "reasons" to support an already untenable position


And this is what secular "science" also does, but has evolution theory as their starting assumption and world view. If they find something that doesn't fit within their precious evolution theory, it's thrown out. This has never been an argument of sceicne v religion. Both stances are religious.



But the whole genesis story is quite backwards - rather comparable to creating humans but forgetting to create an nitrogen/oxygen atmosphere upon which we rely to breathe.


It's evolution theory that is backwards and making theistic evolution impossible. No man was there during creation (apart from Adam witnessing the ceation of the Garden of Eden) and so this is why I trust God's word on what He did. Whereas you'd rather trust fallible man's opinion.
 stargazer1000
Joined: 1/16/2008
Msg: 1076
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 3:02:03 PM

Oh so you've heard of the people being brought back to life by God and the God inspired information in the Bible that no man could have known back then? So why do you still deny God knowing this information? Surely you would have research it and found that God is actually real. But of course you wouldn't research it because you don't want to have a God to tell you what to do.


Ah yes, the "You hate/are mad at god" argument. Like I said, nothing new. What creationists don't get is that people who argue against religious interpretations are simply saying 'godidit' isn't an explanation. Of course, you could replace "god" with "Zeus," "Quetzocoatl" or "Flying Spaghetti Monster."

Of course, if there was a "god" to tell me what to do, I tend to think said all-powerful, all-knowing deity would have found a means to anticipate all arguments against him and would have found a way to nullify all arguments, making his supposed existence undeniable.


And this is what secular "science" also does, but has evolution theory as their starting assumption and world view. If they find something that doesn't fit within their precious evolution theory, it's thrown out. This has never been an argument of sceicne v religion. Both stances are religious.


Ah yes, the "world view/evolution is religion" argument. *yawn* Like I said. Tedious. But evolution is no more religion than relativity, genetics or chemistry are religions either. Of course, evolution does more to challenge the exceedingly vainglorious notion that mankind is some kind of "special creation."

Perhaps, before you critique science, you should understand what it is you're talking about first. Just sayin'.


It's evolution theory that is backwards and making theistic evolution impossible. No man was there during creation (apart from Adam witnessing the ceation of the Garden of Eden) and so this is why I trust God's word on what He did. Whereas you'd rather trust fallible man's opinion.


Oh yes, the "you weren't there to witness it" argument. But hmmm...I wonder if god owns his own publishing company? Hmm...I wonder if he takes unsolicited manuscripts.

Of course, it's pointless to point out to you that it was human hands on the pens that wrote "the bible." Or re-edited and retranslated it. Or re-wrote the re-edited versions. Or re-edited the rewritten versions, etc....

And then there's the concepts of deductive reasoning based on evidence which is foundation of science and law. Or can I just say god told me you're a bank robber and call the cops. I'm sure, since someone is saying god told them you are a bank robber, you'll happily be escorted into prison because, after all, godsaidit!
 Earthpuppy
Joined: 2/9/2008
Msg: 1077
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 3:27:23 PM
The "evolution" of Easter.
http://secretsun.blogspot.com/2008/03/happy-ishtar.html
 Quello79
Joined: 7/18/2010
Msg: 1078
view profile
History
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 3:34:08 PM

Ah yes, the "You hate/are mad at god" argument. Like I said, nothing new. What creationists don't get is that people who argue against religious interpretations are simply saying 'godidit' isn't an explanation. Of course, you could replace "god" with "Zeus," "Quetzocoatl" or "Flying Spaghetti Monster."


Erm no. As with all non-believers, you disregard the Holy Spirit that proves God's power and His word. Which in turn makes all false gods just that - false. Then you're going to ask for evidence of God's power. And I shall point you towards miraculous healing, bring back the death, exorcisims of buildings and people. I have a boxset of hauntings reinacted documentaries that was shown on the Discovery channel. In all cases that were solved, a person of Christian faith used God's power to dispel the demons. There was a woman at the church I belong to who had a demon in her house and the pastor exorcised it, which worked. With God's power, my mother and others cured a woman of cancer (who was so crippled with cancer, she could barely walk and the doctors stopped treatment giving her no hope of recovery).


Of course, if there was a "god" to tell me what to do, I tend to think said all-powerful, all-knowing deity would have found a means to anticipate all arguments against him and would have found a way to nullify all arguments, making his supposed existence undeniable.

Another classic mistake. God deliberately doesn't make His existence obvious because He wants us to have to believe in Him, to have faith and to choose to love Him. Love isn't true love if it is forced.
Are you really sure you've argued against creationists before?

I do understand the theory of evolution. The theory as a whole is not compatible with the Bible and is not observable or testable. If it is not obervable or testable, it cannot be classified as science. Then you'll say it is observable, we see different species arising etc. Creationists do not argue against micro evolution (variations within kinds), but we argue against what is not seen - macro evolution (that all living things are related and evolved from a common ancestor). Then you'll ask what a "kind" is specifically, and I'll say it's what modern science calls "family" and you can find more information by looking up "baraminology". I've been arguing this topic for years, I know at least the basics.

When we say it's the word of God, we mean it's either directly dictated to man or inspired by God. Historians and scholars for thousands of years have made sure God's word is protected and preserved (just as the Bible said it would be). The first translation into English was by James 1st in 1611 and that's the version still used as the authority version. We know about the translations it's been through since the original and it wouldn't be trusted if it were in error.

Someone saying that God said something, doesn't necessarily mean God actually said it to them. The Bible warns us of false prophets, liars and Satan's deceptive powers.
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 1079
Evolution.
Posted: 4/24/2011 3:43:41 PM
^^^ The above post clearly shows the pointlessness of engaging in this argument.

Nutbars are not going to respond to reason. They will throw out ridiculous statements like, "do understand the theory of evolution. The theory as a whole is not compatible with the Bible and is not observable or testable."

Yeah, I'm sure someone will take issue with it, but why bother? It's so patently ludicrous on the face of it that any response will be met with yet some other bit of delusion.
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