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 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1551
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Evolution.Page 63 of 63    (23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54, 55, 56, 57, 58, 59, 60, 61, 62, 63)

why does indeed a "faith" in "science" and discussion of evolution result in this :attempting to falsify both science and god??

There's not a faith "in science". Science unfortunately has popularly false definitions applied. Science is just the method to get the most accurate & unbiased results. There's no "faith" in it -- no more "faith" in the concept of logic to find logical conclusions. But sometimes people call "science" = "what many scientists say", so I assume that's what you mean.

Evolution has offered much understanding of the development of "life" evolution does not claim to decide the "creation of life- therefore, there need be no war between the two.

Correct -- Evolution is not about the creation of life. It's about the evolution of life. There isn't a war between it and many brands of religion, namely modern/progressive ones. But when taking Genesis literally as a very very brief but 100% accurate story-line as to how life came about on Earth -- life on Earth didn't end up evolving into Humans. Humans basically came first, in the image of this God -- then everything else, immediately following. So yes, it does conflict with a Literal interpretation of Genesis, even though the Bible wasn't trying to be a biological or astronomy textbook by any stretch of the imagination. That said though, it was clearly trying to provide an answer as to "how life got here". It got it wrong.
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 1552
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Evolution.
Posted: 4/3/2019 5:53:14 AM
*norwegianguy456 wrote*

even though the Bible wasn't trying to be a biological or astronomy textbook by any stretch of the imagination it was clearly trying to provide an answer as to "how life got here". It got it wrong


Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?
 statfa
Joined: 4/5/2019
Msg: 1553
Evolution.
Posted: 4/9/2019 3:22:05 PM
^^^ we can only deal with probabilities, not absolutes. The probability of the bible being right is very, very low mainly based on logic, reason and contradictions in the text itself. But the Universe does exist...how or why...we can speculate but nothing likely will ever be proven to 100% certainty. And even if there is a Universal God, which I give a reasonable possibility too, that in no way indicates there is a personal God.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1554
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Evolution.
Posted: 4/10/2019 1:09:07 AM

Do you have any evidence to back up that claim?

Sure. The Bible itself, it's words. It wasn't trying to be a biological or astronomy textbook by any stretch. Disagree? :)

Now, that said, you may have been referring to my "claim" that it was trying to give an answer to how life specifically appeared here. The evidence is that it claims man came before any other life, which is incorrect. Evidence that is incorrect? The world is rife with evidence that the world is ~4 billion years old, and also rife with evidence that man came far far later than the beginning of any life (simplistic or animalistic).

That said though, many Xians don't take specific things like that from the Bible literally, and more point to the writers being human inspired by God, and it more meaning man was above all the other animals, and despite it laying out as people thought/assumed it was then, that wasn't the layout of it (much like it wasn't trying to be a biological or astronomy textbook).
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 1555
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Evolution.
Posted: 4/10/2019 7:25:24 AM

Sure. The Bible itself, it's words. It wasn't trying to be a biological or astronomy textbook by any stretch. Disagree? :)


Agree with that part.


Now, that said, you may have been referring to my "claim" that it was trying to give an answer to how life specifically appeared here. The evidence is that it claims man came before any other life, which is incorrect.


This is the bit that I'm struggling with. I don't know where you get your evidence from but nowhere in the bible does it state that it will try to give an answer as to how life got here, quite the contrary. It provides a clear explanation (whether you happen to believe it or not being another question) as to our origins.


The world is rife with evidence that the world is ~4 billion years old, and also rife with evidence that man came far far later than the beginning of any life (simplistic or animalistic).


I think discussion about the age of the earth is a moot point, over the years figures about its exact age vary from source to source and it is something that can only be speculated, not 100% proved.
Obviously if you believe in the theory of evolution the Biblical texts aren't going to fit in with your way of thinking as you probably are of the belief that human's are no more than upgraded apes.
 norwegianguy456
Joined: 6/11/2015
Msg: 1556
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Evolution.
Posted: 4/10/2019 10:06:58 PM

I don't know where you get your evidence from but nowhere in the bible does it state that it will try to give an answer as to how life got here, quite the contrary. It provides a clear explanation (whether you happen to believe it or not being another question) as to our origins.

I wasn't referring to the origins, I was referring to timeline & order. As you point, it gives a clear (simple) explanation as to our origins -- God "poof". That Is an answer as to how life got here (animals included). So you say it does not state how life got here, but it gives a clear explanation as to our origins (how we got here). It was God, in maybe a summarized one-felt-swoop, but in general -- the timeline was short, man came first, then other animals. And man was of a solo couple separate from other animals, and Adam & Eve bred, requiring inbreeding for the human race, and they lived to hundreds of years old back then, too. Flat Earth, anyone?

To be fair, one can still be Xian like many are, and not take it literally. As back in those days, people went by fables to explain rights & wrongs (ex: Jonah & the whale; not taken literally; but to teach a lesson). And granted, again, it's not a biological textbook nor is even remotely trying to be. Nor should one assume that God even wanted to explain or have the people of such historic time writing it, know the ins & outs of it, which would be Far too complicated for them anyway and Complicate things away from the point, right?

The problem of inaccuracies exists if you take it more what it says as an outline of what exactly literally did happen.

I think discussion about the age of the earth is a moot point, over the years figures about its exact age vary from source to source and it is something that can only be speculated, not 100% proved.

It's "moot" because Xian *tradition* doesn't have too much of a problem with believing the earth itself is 4.5 billion years old. The timeline was in "days", although those days could be long long periods of time, nor trying to be exact -- but it certainly doesn't make it enlightening on info. The age of the earth can be proved -- Roughly speaking -- by radioactive dating. It can be proved it's certainly not 10,000 years old. Otherwise Adam & Eve would have been glowing with radioactivity. :)

Obviously if you believe in the theory of evolution the Biblical texts aren't going to fit in with your way of thinking as you probably are of the belief that human's are no more than upgraded apes.

Many Xians accept the theory of biological evolution. There's so much evidence and arrows pointed that way. But it does go against more literal Xian traditions, which hits home on people's emotions. Humans share almost all of their DNA with apes, and we're constructed in the same way, as are all other living beings. It doesn't make us petty, nor does it refrain us from being the most superior beings on the planet by far. But it does go against a more literal "poof" existence from God, prior to all other animals. But, in Genesis, God made us from dust in the ground. Is that any better? You can make anything sound sour. But what's Truly sour is, from a more traditional Xian's POV: It goes against what I have learned, it'd make me throw out my beliefs and my Bible, therefore it's wrong.
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 1557
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Posted: 4/11/2019 1:36:17 AM

This is the bit that I'm struggling with. I don't know where you get your evidence from but nowhere in the bible does it state that it will try to give an answer as to how life got here, quite the contrary. It provides a clear explanation (whether you happen to believe it or not being another question) as to our origins.

This begs the question... why have you never heard the Apollo 8 Christmas Eve broadcast where they read from the Book of Genesis (which asserts that goddidit)?

I think discussion about the age of the earth is a moot point, over the years figures about its exact age vary from source to source and it is something that can only be speculated, not 100% proved.

If you believe that the span of knowledge consists of "only speculation" and "100% proof" with nothing in-between, you are claiming to know nothing at all. I will bet you a bazillion dollars that the sun will not rise tomorrow, but you will not take the bet because you have "only speculation" that it will.

Obviously if you believe in the theory of evolution the Biblical texts aren't going to fit in with your way of thinking as you probably are of the belief that human's are no more than upgraded apes.

I wouldn't say that to a non-human ape if I were you. We are apes, just like the others. They have evolved as much as we have, only in different ways. Try swinging through a jungle at 56kph or ripping someones arms off and get back to me with how "upgraded" you think you are.
 FFS38
Joined: 8/12/2011
Msg: 1558
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Posted: 4/11/2019 5:17:04 AM

This begs the question... why have you never heard the Apollo 8 Christmas Eve broadcast where they read from the Book of Genesis (which asserts that goddidit)?


Of course I've heard the Biblical account of how life began, you're quoting me out of context as I was responding to a post that suggested the Bible TRIES to give an explanation.


If you believe that the span of knowledge consists of "only speculation" and "100% proof" with nothing in-between, you are claiming to know nothing at all.


Then by your logic you are suggesting scientists know nothing at all.


I will bet you a bazillion dollars that the sun will not rise tomorrow, but you will not take the bet because you have "only speculation" that it will.


Ironically another moot point, as let's say the world ceased because of some natural disaster, or man-made cause, which eradicated all life, no one gets to take the money.


I wouldn't say that to a non-human ape if I were you. We are apes, just like the others. They have evolved as much as we have, only in different ways. Try swinging through a jungle at 56kph or ripping someones arms off and get back to me with how "upgraded" you think you are.


There is no evidence of man evolving from apes, only speculation, we are still seeking that missing link, but by all means if you have evidence why isn't this world news? I'm assuming you already know the piltdown man was a hoax?
 gingerosity
Joined: 12/10/2011
Msg: 1559
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Posted: 4/12/2019 12:47:24 AM
Ah, I see you'd rather argue with some good ol' goal-shift and strawman than risk actually contemplating the points I made to address them. Never mind then, carry on.
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