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 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 26
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?Page 3 of 6    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6)

So if physical appearance isn't a part of love, how does that explain how perceived physical attractiveness and sexual attractiveness of others varies from individual to individual?
You're still not grasping attraction as being more than visual. Being visually attracted to someone's appearance is part of "attraction", not a part of "love." If you take away the visual aspect of attraction then your basis for pair bonding will be reliant on other things, such as the sound of their voice, smell, personality, sense of humour, ideals, intelligence, strength etc. Those "other" things take time to learn. That's why I asked how long the couples in the show would be together for. The longer they were together without the visual aspect of attraction the deeper they would be attracted to the other things... Time would strengthen their non-visual attraction to one another. If they had time to bond and become attracted to the non-visual reasons for attraction noted above, then when the lights came on, there may be a momentary re-adjustment or a "gee they don't look like they sound" kinda moment which, would quickly pass.


Statistics say otherwise.
please point me to the stats that show ALL the people in arranged marriages are unhappy.. You said "Those people are unhappy" which paints with a pretty wide brush. I could say Stats show that ALL people who base their "love" on "looks" aren't happy ~ considering the divorce rate in North America... but I'd just be talking outta my ...
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 27
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 7:12:06 AM

Charisma is closely linked to physical attractiveness, though, isn't it? Or can someone who believes they are unattractive charm the skin off a snake?


You believing me to be unattractive and ME believing me to be unattractive aren't the same critter.

While you're thinkin that I'm unattractive, I'm thinkin the opposite. And I CAN charm the skin off a snake!

However, skinless snakes still bite!

I would say that Dating in the dark could have similar pitfalls to online dating, if prolonged interaction w/o a "real" meet up doesn't happen.

Many people on here have experienced the long and drawn out online courtship. Only to discover, that there's no chemistry in person. Or the other person isn't quite what you'd built them upto being.

Yeah. You build them upto something that YOU think they are. And when they turn out different from how you'd envisioned em? It kills it.

The only exception................



Is when the other person exceeds your expectations of them!



That's why "No Expectations" dating is so successful.
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 28
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 7:14:48 AM

Statistics say otherwise.



BTW, statistics and polls are easily manipulated to say whatever you want them to say.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 29
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 7:24:08 AM

I would say that Dating in the dark could have similar pitfalls to online dating, if prolonged interaction w/o a "real" meet up doesn't happen.
You're forgetting that the people in the "the dark" have already met. They just haven't seen each other yet.
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 30
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 7:31:38 AM
Not really.

On here, we've seen each other. But there's an aspect of reality still missing.

Maybe we could call it a dimensionality?

I think that "Love" incorporates ALL aspect, ALL dimensions or the "real" person.

Anything else is just lust and/or infatuation.
 davidsauvignon
Joined: 2/6/2008
Msg: 31
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 7:40:52 AM

The moderately attractive girl clearly had some reservations about meeting the average looking guy; she didn't look as disappointed as the very attractive girl, but she didn't look thrilled either. You could tell she was kind of on the fence about it, but she ended up going to meet the guy, signifying her willingness to the date/trip/whatever.

Yeah, I guessed wrong about this one. He was a Mensa member, was constantly sniffing her because he had a strong belief in the power of pheremones, etc. Kind of a quirky personality, while she was extroverted, effervescent and pretty animated (an Aussie, btw). Also, her mental image that was sketched and presented to him, was better looking than Brad Pitt. He was pretty scared going into the reveal knowing he wasn't the Addonis she pictured him as.




The geeky looking girl was ecstatic about the good looking guy. He expressed some reservations, but in the end, he felt that he had fun with her, and that maybe it was a good thing that she was different than his usual type. They both showed up and went on their merry way to the next date.

This one didn't surprise me too much. He (a Brit, btw) had opened up to her about his mother abandoning him and his brother, their Dad raising them, etc. and they just seemed to have some mutual trust and respect about things deeper than, "So, what's your favorite brand of peanut butter?"

The last couple surprised me the most despite the fact, she said upon her arrival something to the effect of, "I'm used to dating really hawt guys, so I'm a little nervous." The way they got along, clicked, laughed, liked each other's kisses, mental images fairly close to reality, etc. When she bailed, I actually did 'judge' her as being superficial even though I know, it was probably more of the 'attraction' thing. Guess he just wasn't as hawt as she's used to. (She was an American, btw.) *shrugs*



Dating in the Dark... would you do it?

Yeah, probably.






~ds~
 heterotic
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 32
Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 9:15:56 AM

You're still not grasping attraction as being more than visual. Being visually attracted to someone's appearance is part of "attraction", not a part of "love." If you take away the visual aspect of attraction then your basis for pair bonding will be reliant on other things, such as the sound of their voice, smell, personality, sense of humour, ideals, intelligence, strength etc. Those "other" things take time to learn. That's why I asked how long the couples in the show would be together for. The longer they were together without the visual aspect of attraction the deeper they would be attracted to the other things... Time would strengthen their non-visual attraction to one another. If they had time to bond and become attracted to the non-visual reasons for attraction noted above, then when the lights came on, there may be a momentary re-adjustment or a "gee they don't look like they sound" kinda moment which, would quickly pass.


Really? I'm not grasping that? Even though I said numerous times that it is a "part" of love, and that I am not discounting personality compatibility?

I'm not talking about the world's perception of beauty. I'm not talking about beauty over personality.



please point me to the stats that show ALL the people in arranged marriages are unhappy.. You said "Those people are unhappy" which paints with a pretty wide brush. I could say Stats show that ALL people who base their "love" on "looks" aren't happy ~ considering the divorce rate in North America... but I'd just be talking outta my ...


This was not about arranged marriages. This was talking about relationships based on superficial qualities.
 DocElffington
Joined: 1/20/2009
Msg: 33
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 9:53:39 AM

Too bad, if they judge someone only on looks.


Not really.

Connection or not, if you can't fathom having sex with that person or don't want to go through life looking at that person..........

why should less be thought of you?


I'm sorry.........but I want to be attracted to a woman in EVERY sense of the meaning!

That way, if something happens to her later in life(physically, mentally, etc.) I'll still be attracted to other things about her.


How would it make you feel if a guy told you that he loved your personally but thought you'd hit every branch while falling out of the ugly tree??

Or how about the guy that only fakes that he's physically attracted to you? How would THAT make you feel?
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 34
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 10:00:49 AM

Really? I'm not grasping that? Even though I said numerous times that it is a "part" of love, and that I am not discounting personality compatibility?
then pardon me.. but I'm failing to grasp why you're challenging my posts as if you disagree with what I'm saying which of course prompts another clarification.

I don't agree that "visual attraction" is part of love.. I believe that visual attraction is what draws us to one another when we can see them. If we are not visually attracted to someone, but we spend enough time with them in order to realize that there is a non-visual attraction .. then love can be formed on those other quality/traits. From what I'm gathering from your posts.. you don't grasp (or don't believe) that it's possible to form a committed pair bond unless you're visually stimulated and that any of the other forms of attraction would be non-consequential. Excuse me, if I'm not reading you correctly on that, but by questioning my thoughts on the matter, it gives me the impression that you are in disagreement with what I have to say. My opinion/your opinion it's all good as long as it works for us and brings us what makes us happy.

I'm not talking about the world's perception of beauty. I'm not talking about beauty over personality.
Nor am I.. I'm simply saying that I believe if you spend enough time with someone that you get a sense of who they are and you're attracted to those qualities, then they will begin to appear visually attractive to you as well.


This was not about arranged marriages. This was talking about relationships based on superficial qualities.
In that case, it's even a better argument that society places too much emphasis on looks rather than substance.. How many of us have discounted a relationship with a great person and very quickly relegated it to platonic based on the visual alone and closed our minds to falling for any of the other traits of attraction? Probably way too many of us.
 heterotic
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 35
Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 10:29:57 AM

In that case, it's even a better argument that society places too much emphasis on looks rather than substance.. How many of us have discounted a relationship with a great person and very quickly relegated it to platonic based on the visual alone and closed our minds to falling for any of the other traits of attraction? Probably way too many of us.


I don't believe that at all. If we remained in that person's life as a friend we would still get to know them. If we were not sexually attracted to them, then it is now because of their personality, too.

I think that physical attraction is subjective, to a point. There are men I have known that have become more attractive to me the more I got to know them, and men who did the opposite. However, I have never become attracted to someone I didn't start out being attracted to. I have met someone that I had talked to through a mutual friend for a long time, thinking we had an amazing chemistry and were very compatible only for it to flounder upon meeting.

What I find physically appearing is probably also very different from what you may find attractive in a mate, visually. If you do not have a physical connection with someone it isn't going to work out.
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 36
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 10:59:56 AM

I don't believe that at all. If we remained in that person's life as a friend we would still get to know them. If we were not sexually attracted to them, then it is now because of their personality, too.
I think it simply means that we were'nt attracted to them sexually(visually).. and, after getting to know them more, the other attractive qualities that they (everyone has) didn't mesh with us either. That's common. But it doesn't negate the fact that it happens. I once spend a significant amount of time with a collegue who I didn't find sexually,visually attractive in the least. We did not form a friendship outside of the project we worked on.. However after spending months of working with this man.. I began to feel attraction through our interactions and his looks didn't seem to be an issue with how I was responding (became attracted to him) to his being around me.

I think that physical attraction is subjective, to a point. There are men I have known that have become more attractive to me the more I got to know them, and men who did the opposite. However, I have never become attracted to someone I didn't start out being attracted to.
Then you're opinion is based on your experience thus far, so you don't know anything except what you've experienced. I was the same way until experiencing the above scenerio.
I have met someone that I had talked to through a mutual friend for a long time, thinking we had an amazing chemistry and were very compatible only for it to flounder upon meeting.
This is different... you never spent and "blind" time actually in each others presence.. your chemistry was based on fantasy developed in your mind through a "never having met " dynamic. What happened to you often happens when meeting from online communication as well.. You formed a false sense of bonding before any of your senses were involved never mind just sight.
I'm a huge believer in chemistry and immediate attraction which happens instantly upon meeting. (it's happened to me twice in my life) This chemistry intails much more than being sexually attracted to their looks.
What I find physically appearing is probably also very different from what you may find attractive in a mate, visually. If you do not have a physical connection with someone it isn't going to work
Beauty is subjective, no doubt. However: I suspect as you experience more things.. you may understand that looks are important in attracting us to each other initially.. but they aren't what makes someone happy for the longhaul. I think that if you were suddenly left blind (God forbid) that you would change your opinion that "it isn't going to work"

Cheers.. thanks for the exchange.
 heterotic
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 37
Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 11:15:47 AM


Beauty is subjective, no doubt. However: I suspect as you experience more things.. you may understand that looks are important in attracting us to each other initially.. but they aren't what makes someone happy for the longhaul. I think that if you were suddenly left blind (God forbid) that you would change your opinion that "it isn't going to work"


Sigh. If I can't imagine having sex with someone, being in a relationship with them would not make me happy.



This is different... you never spent and "blind" time actually in each others presence.. your chemistry was based on fantasy developed in your mind through a "never having met " dynamic. What happened to you often happens when meeting from online communication as well.. You formed a false sense of bonding before any of your senses were involved never mind just sight.
I'm a huge believer in chemistry and immediate attraction which happens instantly upon meeting. (it's happened to me twice in my life) This chemistry intails much more than being sexually attracted to their looks.

If you meet someone in the dark, a dimension of who they are is still missing. I believe the chemistry has more to do with how they look, as well, but it is a part of it.


I think it simply means that we were'nt attracted to them sexually(visually).. and, after getting to know them more, the other attractive qualities that they (everyone has) didn't mesh with us either. That's common. But it doesn't negate the fact that it happens. I once spend a significant amount of time with a collegue who I didn't find sexually,visually attractive in the least. We did not form a friendship outside of the project we worked on.. However after spending months of working with this man.. I began to feel attraction through our interactions and his looks didn't seem to be an issue with how I was responding (became attracted to him) to his being around me.

You found him incredibly unattractive initially? Or were you indifferent to his attractiveness?
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 38
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 1:08:07 PM

Man, some people just really do live inside a vacuum don't they
no.. but some apparently live in such black and white reality that they can't see any other colour. I said:
Nor am I.. I'm simply saying that I believe if you spend enough time with someone that you get a sense of who they are and you're attracted to those qualities, then they will begin to appear visually attractive to you as well.
Let me rephrase: When you first meet someone (lets say in a non-date type meeting) who dosen't grab at you. You don't look at them as Wow he/she's hot.. but due to circumstances, you spend a length of time with them and you find yourself becoming physically attracted to them anyway, inspite of their not so hot visual appearance... all of a sudden you start to "view" them as more handsome or more beautiful in appearance than you initially did.
Now, to others they still may appear as being plain or bland.. but to you they now are not.
BDJ.. You are known for your black and white view on most things .. but I've never said to you that you live in a vacuum, even though it could be said that people who can't or refuse to see anything other than their very own experience and therefore it couldn't possibly be so, are the one's in the vacuum.
 Wishes Granted
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 1:27:18 PM

Plastic surgery perhaps...but having a good personality or traits can NEVER (and yes that is VERY black and white) change or alter a PHYSICAL looks (see: visual appeal).
that's the thing.. I'm not suggesting that their LOOKS change .. but rather that the physical APPEAL (or lack thereof in the beginning) can change.. I know it's possible because it's happened to me.. What, in the beginning I thought of as, meh! morphed into someone quite visually attractive (to me). Think of a caterpillar into a butterfly but without the actual physical change taking place.

I have clients and I've gotta run..
Thanks for the exchange!
 Monkey_brains
Joined: 6/25/2009
Msg: 40
Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 1:50:40 PM
I can understand the concept of developing feelings and emotions for somoeone over a period of time, that initially were not present....I do not agree however, with the idea that it makes them magically become visually attractive....

What, in the beginning I thought of as, meh! morphed into someone quite visually attractive (to me).


take the word "visual" out of that sentence and I completely agree...

as far as Dating in the Dark....?...I would only do it if everyone was nekid...
 Wishes Granted
Joined: 3/6/2008
Msg: 41
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 6:29:08 PM

Nope. I just understand that there is absolutely NO possible way AT ALL that a non-physical trait can alter or augment someone's PHYSICAL appearance in ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM.

It's one's perception of the other person's appearance that is altered. It's Not that the other person's physicality has actually morphed in anyway BDJ.

The only way that someone's face or body actually changes physically is through age, or accident or, as you say through plastic surgery.
 Vannili
Joined: 7/8/2008
Msg: 42
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 6:52:40 PM

Dating in the Dark...would you do it ?


Yes! if my world is surounded with darkness due to lack of eyesight, but I still wanted to see him through my hand touching the curves of his face nose/lips /head/body, and the feel of his presence if it makes me feel calm or jetty..
 heterotic
Joined: 6/3/2008
Msg: 43
Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/24/2009 11:05:08 PM


What is the difference in dating in the dark and a random chick scurrying you into a taxicab to the motel for drunken anonymous sex before last call at the bar ... which just so happens to be ...... when the lights come on???


Dating does not automatically mean you have to have sex.



As a result I have been very blessed in love, and rich in friendship in life - and I will never judge a book by its cover as long as I shall live.


This was meant to be a conversation about subjective physical attraction, to each individual. That's why I left the conversation ages ago.
 Fun and conversation
Joined: 7/15/2009
Msg: 44
Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 7/25/2009 2:24:19 AM
Because she is, as most women are, very beautiful. The difference is, she was blessed with what most men would consider near perfect features.
 sweetest
Joined: 10/8/2007
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 8/25/2009 4:05:13 AM

However, I have never become attracted to someone I didn't start out being attracted to. I have met someone that I had talked to through a mutual friend for a long time, thinking we had an amazing chemistry and were very compatible only for it to flounder upon meeting.
^^^I'm the same way and have had the very same experience and result.

If I can't imagine having sex with someone, being in a relationship with them would not make me happy.

^^^Absolutely true...this is vital.

If you meet someone in the dark, a dimension of who they are is still missing. I believe the chemistry has more to do with how they look, as well, but it is a part of it.

^^^I agree completely with this. I caught this show for the first time last night and you could see that no matter how some responded to each other physically while in the dark, that there was a reckoning of sorts when the lights came on and they were finally revealed to each other----no words were needed to read what was panning across some of their faces as they 'saw' each other for the first time.

The visual seeks, identifies, registers and stirs/or not.

To go forward after having found the other unappealing is not now a shallow determination because in reality they came at it the whole thing in a rather backward fashion from the way things typically work.

Having access to the new visual information is a deal breaker...even if revealed a little late in the game---but nonetheless no less of a deal breaker than when we find someone cute and attractive in pictures...great to talk to on the phone...but when we connect in person...there is zero connection and we just 'know' that there is little chance for that to change anytime soon.
 SueCat51
Joined: 8/11/2007
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 8/25/2009 3:37:11 PM
Some of the dates that I've met, I do wish that the lights had been turned down or even off. Enough said.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 8/25/2009 5:18:00 PM
"Isn't online meeting the same thing?"

I agree. I have seen the dating in the dark show a few times now. It is an interesting study in the information provided prior to visual. Consistently I have observed that people on the show have been trying to establish important physical things to them (shape of face, weight, height).

Once they see the person they make their final decision to meet ... and they do tend to blame the lack of attraction. However, if you watch carefully I think you can predict which ones won't want to meet afterwards.

I don't know if there is any incentive for them to not meet. I suspect there must be since most people I would want to know would meet for the 1 date rather than leaving someone standing alone on a balconey while you walk away. No points for publicly rejecting someone.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 8/27/2009 12:12:15 AM
"It seems to me that the whole "dating in the dark" thing would appeal to less attractive people a lot more than to attractive people.

People already "give a chance" to attractive people. They don't need a dark room to have a conversation."

Do watch the show. One of the pair that did meet on the balconey included a girl who would never have dated the guy cause he was too good looking. She would not have given him the chance to find out there was a compatible guy behind the good looks.

They tend to intentionally select those that match for all but looks. Well, 2 were ok in looks but the other moved to fast... or one was too religious. It is an interesting experiment.

I do think there is more to deciding not to meet then meets the eye. It can't be just about 1 date.
 cncgandolf
Joined: 7/29/2007
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 8/27/2009 12:15:43 AM
"Well presumably by the time someone is in their 60's and 70's, sex won't be as big a factor "

ahhh ahem..... trust me.. the super seniors are still shaking the beds at night ... viagra, remember? You been paying attention to the 90 plus celebrities having babies?
 *buzz*
Joined: 6/1/2006
Msg: 50
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Dating in the Dark... would you do it?
Posted: 9/6/2009 11:49:19 AM

Do you think that the chemistry with someone could be the same if you never saw what they looked like?

Ahhh ... that would not work with me.
I love eye contact; just to get the feel how confident the other party is, how much their eyes say or give away, how the size of their pupils change ...if ever lol.
But then, quite later on down the line ... providing all is more than hanky-dory ... light or dark would not make any difference when touch play its forte
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