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Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 17
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I think I get it.Page 2 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
Psst, as she so often does, makes some good points and one of them is the instant relationship. Even back in the day when I was in high school, people were getting away from dating and if they liked each other pretty much from the get go they were an item. Once you become an item, I think you believe that there is a necessity to 'make things work.' One of my friends had a boyfriend pretty much the entire way through high school, some she was with a long time, some a couple of weeks or a month. I don't think the whole making it work thing was present at that time like it is today.

Kids now-a-days don't date, and from what I see, many adults don't either because they have some notion that it is somehow nobler to 'concentrate on one person' when they have no clue whether they are remotely compatible, etc. rather than dating those that might be interested to figure out if any of them are worth pursuing something more permanent. The last guy I had a relationship with I met when I was dating and his attitude was if there was something there, it would develop and the other guys would go away, which is pretty much what happened, as Psst noted, somewhat naturally.

And I agree with Psst on the different advice depending on the relationship. When it starts out as work when everything should still be hunkey dorey, the relationship generally has nowhere to go but down.

Maybe a big part of the problem is getting into relationships so quickly you don't realize that the person is totally wrong for you.
Joined: 4/6/2009
Msg: 18
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 12:36:50 PM
The root of all of it is simple : Greed, Envy and Vanity in their many expression and level;
the person “I want”; "I" "believe" that “I” "need".

- People are so self centered that they refuse to work on themselves and prefer to change others.
- Believe that everyone else have a problem or are the problem and they don't.
- Believe that they have only rights and no obligations
- Believe when comparing themselves to frogs that they are as big and strong as Bulls..not seeing that they are only are frogs themselves.
- Wants instant gratifications and perfect results without any efforts from them
- Lazy, they refuse to work on their problems as they can simply “kleenex” their relationship
- Cowards as they prefer to run away then stay and fight.
- Fear on the other end of the spectrum, to stay in a dead relationship out of fear of the unknown or been alone.
- Always believe that the grass is greener elsewhere….and want it.
- Do not take the proper steps and speed building a solid foundation and are surprised that their house fall apart later on.
- Why talk when we can F@ck solution.
- Will look on material assets before the value of the person, will dump a good person to the profit of material gain or the prevention of lost of material possession.
- Want the milk and the cream without buying the cow or even feed or clean after her.
- Complete lack of self worth or identity.
- Confuse personal strength with attitude.
- Placebo effect.
- Trying or doing things without even considering the repercussions of their actions
- Be offended that there is even a reaction to their actions (or inactions)
- Their wants takes priority over absolutely everything else.
- Believe that fake can be real.
- Lots of them had is so easy that they do not even know what working for something or the true worth of things truly is.
- Lots of them had it so bad, that they return to the same pattern over and over, not knowing what normality is, and some of them even blame the others for it when in fact they are the one making the selection.
- Fear to feel insufficient in front of something worthy, so go lower then them, or do nothing.
- Think they are worth so much, that they try to obtain things that are not of their level, discarding everything else. do nothing to improve themselves.

I can go on for ever with this one!

The good old:
" I do not know what it is exactly, the use of it nor the price...but I want it! I don't know why or how and do not care to know, I just want it!"

 christ on a crutch
Joined: 2/1/2009
Msg: 19
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I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 1:18:15 PM

Judging from how people respond to others questions about "what to do" when in a relationship crisis, I would say that people say GET OUT/MOVE ON/END IT/RUN... more often than not.

it's the dramatic questions we remember best, though, and those are often the ones where cut and run is the best answer. you know: 'he moved in and has no job and drinks all day and watches porn in front of my kids and i'm spending their college fund on rent because he broke both my arms and i can't work. what should i do?'

the folks with relationship tools are out there using them, not beseeching strangers for help. so the forums don't represent the relationships where problems are being worked out.

kinda like what gonesailing is saying ...

This is a bowl of Fruit Loops and to conclude how or why society is experiencing broken relationships based upon conclusions you forumlated watching the popcorn pop online is whack.

no wonder i come on here looking for a dish and all i get are the flakes and crumbs
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 20
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 1:30:26 PM
Many good points have been brought up in this Thread, but one that I'd like to add is that sometimes two good people simply bring out the worst in each other, rather than the best. Each relationship (be it filial, parent/offspring, significant other, at-work relationships, etc.) brings out a different set of your personality characteristics. If you don't like what you are like when you're with your significant other, and/or vice versa, it's not a good match, and won't get any better over time.
Joined: 6/25/2009
Msg: 21
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 4:38:31 PM
Nah...if you really wanna 'get it'....start hangin' in the Sex and Dating threads.....

My dear OP: Listen to your pal The Rockman, he sounds like a smartypants to me and I think he hit the nail on the head with this comment:

It's everyone else's relationships that are disposable and never the person posting the advice
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 23
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I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 5:35:59 PM
Unfortunately, these days a tattoo is more of a commitment than a marriage.

Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 27
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 6:45:15 PM
Internet dating has made it easier for someone to cheat. People on here can hide their real status behind the cloak of a computer.

I think alot of it has to do with alcohol/drug use.

I would not be single today if it was not for someone who was unable to hold a job and drinks constantly. I divorced because of the drinking mainly. Why do we want to pay for some attorney's BMW?
Joined: 5/16/2009
Msg: 28
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I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 7:06:02 PM
I can only speak for myself.

I do not take commitments lightly. I do not offer it lightly, but once I commit to

someone there is no thought of ever running, turning away from the one I have

formed the commitment with --period.

I believe it is very important to establish good communication from the get-go, and,

together build strong foundational tools that allow you to communicate well and to

have no doubt where the other ones stands at all times. I would even say that a

couple needs to have discussions about core issues such as sex, finances, decisions

involving children, etc., etc., and then honor those decisions thru agreements that

effectively allow you both to know how the basic flow and function of the relationship

will be conducted and "free up" any future issues regarding those topics. That gets the

large issues out of the way, so to speak, and allows the relationahip to fluorish.

Having said that, we have to be honest about who we choose to build a future/

commmiment with and make sure that we click well intellectually, physically,

emotionally, etc. to ensure that it works on all levels.

I would hope that when a relationship "crisis" occurs, that we will have built a close

relationship and honor the commitment by turning toward each other--never away

from one another, and work through the issue together.

Not to be a d!ck, but with all this great communication stuff, why are you divorced?
Joined: 6/1/2009
Msg: 31
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 7:47:38 PM
Heh, everyone likes to quote this bit:

people say GET OUT/MOVE ON/END IT/RUN... more often than not.

I don't have any theories on why relationships are failing. Well I do, but they've already been mentioned or else are kind of half-baked. But...does 'end' always = 'fail'?

As for why people are getting the above quoted response on these discussion forums, well I think it has to do with the medium. Someone comes on here to tell us about their relationship problem and mostly all we get is a brief outline of the problem, with maybe a few basic facts of their history. And not all of us are good writers. So we have to base our advice on what we've been told in black and white of this problem, with no idea of what happy shared memories, successes, positive feelings, years of emotional entaglement there might be to counterbalance the decision to walk away.
Joined: 6/9/2007
Msg: 32
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 7:54:37 PM
Good topic....

Well here’s what I think, relationships fail when people enter them for the wrong reasons, most enter with an eye towards “what can I get out of it” rather than “what can I put into it” . It’s very romantic to say you were “nothing” before this person came along, but it’s not true. Worse, it puts an incredible amount of pressure on the other to be all sorts of things he or she is not.
Joined: 3/20/2009
Msg: 33
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 7:55:19 PM
OP, I think the mind is a very powerful and sometimes dangerous tool. It, much more than the the internet, is the real problem.

Last week I almost destroyed my current relationship because I allowed my own thoughts to get entirely out of hand. I then posted on the forum, looking for advice, and read responses to my thread which reinforced my own bad thoughts. Often, I think, people have a bad tendancy to shoot themselves in the feet. From there, their relationship self-distructs.

Calm down. Be patient. Give you partner as much consideration as is humanly reasonable. If after doing this it still isn't working, accept that you are with the wrong person and move on.

Patience is so incredible important. In many cases this is missing in relationships. Of course, some peeople no longer deserve their partner's patience.
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 34
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I think I get it.
Posted: 7/25/2009 9:58:24 PM
commonsens (#30) and Key Player (#54) summed it up excellently, especially the part about instant gratification expectations. To a degree, this is even present in no-fault divorce laws where the only grounds for dissolution of marriage that the court recognizes is, "The marriage is irretrievably broken." No further explanation accepted. Basically just "it ain't working" so let's hurry up and conclude this case. At least that's how it is in Wisconsin -- don't know about your area.

I also agree with barbee1970 (#47) that alcohol- (&/or drug-) dependency plays a role ... a fact that a lot of people prefer to deny.
Joined: 6/25/2009
Msg: 39
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/26/2009 9:10:24 AM
I just read a few other threads in the relationship topic... holy crap are we ever nasty at times. So much "us" against "them"....

I agree...seems to be a highly combative and hostile tone in many of the threads....might want to put on army fatigues before entry...camouflage even.....yikes!

I tend to skip over the obtuse amount of antipathy offered and gravitate to the good stuff...there is much wisdom and insight in between the spoiled apples...head towards the big shiny red one and take a big bite...:)
Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 40
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/26/2009 3:18:59 PM
One more vote for commonsens' answer (#30).

I would add one more element, however.

There is something insidiously seductive about that attitude.

It's easy to point out the flaws of others while refusing to look in the mirror, especially when you know (at some level, at least) that you'll be staring at a bowl of sh*t when you do.

It's all very well to preach that others should have enough self-discipline to prioritize things besides their own desires on occasion, but it's less entertaining when it comes to your turn. And anyone that denies that is pretty full of it.

I'll admit it-- I want instant gratification too. I want my life to be like the starring role in some 1980's teenage s*x comedy where everyone falls down laughing at my jokes, I get to bag an endless string of bikini-model nymphomaniacs who hang on my every word and they pay me Madoff Money to tool around a tropical paradise in a Ferrari.

EDIT: But tomorrow morning I'm getting up at the sound of the alarm, showering, shaving and going to work, like most people, men and women.
Joined: 10/19/2007
Msg: 41
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/27/2009 4:19:02 PM
Is it not as simple as the most important element to any decent relationship... communication? I have heard many stories where it comes down to two people becoming so complacent and routine that they are actually living their own seperate lives, yet in a relationship. Ask a bunch of single people how good the communication was in their relationship. I would bet you money that most would say... What communication?

Relationships are like work. I think they are very much like a job. You need to be upgrading your skills. You need to have meetings. You need to have goals. You need to have team building exercises... and on and on.

I blame communication.
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 42
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I think I get it.
Posted: 7/27/2009 7:32:33 PM
After reading all of this, and agreeing with much of it; yes, relationships have become disposable, and, yes, many people remain in dysfunctional relationships because it is, in some ways, easier.. I have come to the conclusion that the best piece of advice I have ever given my children is... spend some time living alone, learn how to be by yourself, do things yourself, love yourself... . some things are just sad. We shouldn't "need" a relationship, we should want to share our lives with a particular person. We shouldn't need to be "completed", rather to be complemented. Things have changed so much, yet not at all.
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 43
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I think I get it.
Posted: 7/27/2009 10:24:34 PM
The easy answer is "kick 'em to the kerb", it is much more difficult to get to the bottom of "what's wrong?" and "what could be done about it to move it in a positive direction".

I'm beginning to suspect that people have a different relationship to duty and honour and at the core of it lies individualism... where what *I* want takes precedence over what anyone else wants/needs.

We are, in many ways, a society in pain... and the pain echoes in the forums.
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 50
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:24:00 AM
It all depends on what the circumstances are and at what stage the "relationship" is. I see the majority of the forum posts where people are urged to move on are relatively new relationships. What sense does it make to "work on" a new relationship when, at that time, people are generally at their best behaviour. If the treatment is ridiculous at this best behaviour stage, what can one expect to get way better when that best behaviour phase starts to tarnish? That's not even flogging a dead horse, that's trying to flog one that hasn't even been born yet with the "work at it whip". Yesterday's forums certainly had a crop of wanna be relationships that would fall into this category.

Then you have the relationships that have some form of longevity to them with a pattern of the same sickness throughout. Where exactly do you see the benefit of working on something for even more months/years when it has proven to be toxic to at least one individual in the relationship?

Yes, relationships are filled with compromise and the ability to communicate, at least the ones where both parties are willing to compromise and communicate. Where people are urged to get out is where it's been displayed that there is no compromise, no communication, a whole lot of self-centeredness and just plain sick behaviours displayed. Banging your head against a brick wall feels wonderful...when you stop.
Joined: 1/27/2009
Msg: 51
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:30:21 AM
Fantastic thread, cause and effect, and just about everyone agrees on the effect of the socio-economic environment. Communication goes without saying, even with that, sometimes we can't work out our differences....maybe marriage has given way to "Speed Relationships".....
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 52
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I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:42:17 AM

Doesn't it all come down to communication? Can you not think of a situation in your past that was indirectly or directly related to some kind of communication failure? Where I think the biggest "gaff" in communication is... is in our listening and relating skills. Do you take time to reiterate what you have heard, back to the one you heard it from, for confirmation of what they are saying to you? I think this is where we can get in trouble.

Usually it is not a communication problem so much as a problem with perception and interpretation. In most cases, people are speaking to each other (unless the relationship has really unravelled to entrenched positions) but are either not "getting it" or the way their life view lines up is out of alignment.

For example, when listening to another trying to explain their feelings to you, do you stay focused on what the other person is saying and their message or have you taken something from their words and run off with it in your mind? So often, (I think) people will not take the time to truly understand and relate to what they are hearing. I know this is something that has effected me and I am guilty of it still from time to time.

Stephen Covey said "Seek first to understand and only then be understood". It certainly seems like many people think the communication process is "Speak. Wait to Speak." I personally think most problems would dissipate if we spent more time on active listening and had our going in position as: "this person understands things different than I do and I'm not right". We're hardly ever right about things - it is just our interpretation of events and stories in our life.
Joined: 7/16/2009
Msg: 54
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 10:12:33 AM philosphy on relationships is 'enjoy each other until you don't' , which probably would seem to prove your point. However, I don't mean that in any disrespectful or non-committal manner. I only used this philosophy on one relationship, my last one (I feel I finally learned you can't force things) lasted 5 years and was terriffic. The reason for the break-up was not a failure on either of our parts or the relationship..he is 14 years younger than me. I've raised my daughter, done all the things you do when you're young. And he hasn't. I felt very strongly that us staying together would keep him stagnant in some ways (which it was doing). Right or wrong, it wasn't because the relationship failed though. So, the way we handled things....gave each other personal space, took responsibility for our own happiness & our own lives, kept our separate living arrangements,etc. THere were also some things we had to work through and some we still struggled with (but would not be anything either of us would consider ending the relationship over). I think that relationships, even with the best of everything, have struggles. That's part of what makes them stronger. And what you deal with. The good and the bad. None of us is perfect. Men and women are so very differnt...which is super friggin cool as far as I'm concerned. And I'll take the problems that come with that. I am both amazed and flabbergasted at you men sometimes! Love it.
By taking it one day at a time, it's like not taking anything for granted. Being appreciative and grateful for each other every day, which is also the way I live my life. I want someone who I think of with a smile on my face first thing when I open my eyes in the morning...and as I'm drifting off to sleep at the end of the day. And, in between , we will live our lives both separately and together. I don't think that's impossible. I do think by taking personal responsibility and having good, open communication, and not trying to make clones of each other, that you can knock out 90% of the bullshit. But before you get to any of that , you need (imo) to be whole yourself and to know yourself, to have strong chemistry, strong sexual attraction, some like interests, respect for yourself and each other..and your relationship, a committment to the relationship, and have similar life philosophies. Then, when life throws stuff at you, like kids, job issues, etc can handle it as a team. Just my opinion. And I think some things that contribute to relationships failing are:

1) people don't address themselves first
2) people want ideals/fantasy, not reality
3) people don't have the basic matching first (which is when I tend to say run away)
4) people lack the integrity it takes to maintain the integrity of a relationship

These are , of course, just my humble opinions. Peace. K
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 55
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I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 11:42:46 AM
^^ That's a good list ependa.

If I flip the question around... "What makes a good relationship" or "What makes a good relationship succeed" it all really boils down to someone being compatible with who you really are. That is, I believe, the "basic matching" ependa speaks of. If you resonate, really resonate, together I think the sailing weather just got 80% better.

My sweetie and I are compatible - we fit together like puzzle pieces. (Well, he might be missing one.) I'm considered a fairly good communicator, and a pretty understanding person... yet every relationship I have had has really required these skills to "work on the relationship". And I've worked on previous relationships and myself until it followed its almost inevitable trajectory. (Why do I suddenly have the lyrics "Crash and Burn, Crash and Burn" echoing in my brain?)

It's quite a contrast with my sweetie, where things have been effortless. I believe it is because we are so compatible and have learned so much about ourselves. We know ourselves really well; still learning of course, but a really good grounding of self awareness makes it much, much easier to relate with another person well. We've had life throw some stuff at us, as it always will, and we're both flawed people who have things the other needs to give some space to... but the sorting out or meeting the challenges or giving space hasn't required "work".
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 58
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/14/2009 10:38:56 AM
The forums are not representative of ordinary, everyday life. Relationship tales told here very often involve extreme circumstances to the point that it's hard to understand how the originating poster even allowed him/herself to get into the situation. There's a reason they're choosing a semi-anonymous venue to vent, after all...

That's why you see a lot of advice here to get out.

There's no correlation, IMO, between this and what people tell one another in person, and/or when they're more likely to have the whole story; there's no Greek chorus everywhere singing, "Single is better!" If anything, when single, we are pushed to "Get out there and find someone!"

I have been following this thread with interest, and do agree that many give up too easily. However, I think that is a complex cultural problem with many wide roots, having little or nothing to do with direct advice from others. All else aside, how often is that advice heeded?
Joined: 6/24/2009
Msg: 59
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:24:54 PM

This also makes me think that people just don't have the "work ethic" needed to make a relationship work. Too many are quick to judge and blame. Too many think that because they have had poor relationships, they are experts and that the ultimate solution is to GIVE UP. Maybe that is why there are so many people flocking to websites like this as they would rather start over, than work on what they had.

This is a valid point, but the effort needs to be coming from both people. It's pretty pointless to stay and keep trying with someone who won't meet you halfway. It's very tiresome to carry the dead weight of a partner who won't do thier share to keep things mutually satisfying.
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 63
I think I get it.
Posted: 12/27/2009 8:15:53 AM

Quit doing the SAME things all the time. Loosen up. Quit being so prudish. Do some of the things you secretly WISH you'd do. Sheesh! Boring, boring, boring. Reinvent yourself as a partner sometimes. Be brave little piglets!

Sorry,,, I had to giggle at this one. Only because I see endless "lists" of what people require before they will even e-mail ya.I suggest this "reinvention" is almost impossible for the majority,,,especially when they reach a certain age,,,,and "know what they want" or "what they don't want",,,,,all because of past experinces.

I know our experinces are one of the few things that we can go by,,,,but for the majority,,,,these instances are usually only experinced ONCE,,,and then they refer to it for the rest of their lives and act accordingly like it's set in stone. ie... "my last hubby smoked dope and he was a couch potatoe." or " the younger ones have more energy and appreciate me more" or "my hubby just got boring as we aged together". Experinces,,,good or bad,,,are just bricks that we use to build our walls,,,,,if we do not totally understand what happened during our past experinces. Sometimes that involves looking in the mirror and taking some of the blame,,,,,or at least admitting you were part of the equation. Again,,,something a lot of people are not able to do,,,,,,,honestly.

Most of us,,,,,if we are seriously honest with ourselves,,,,deserve to be single,,,because of our expectations of others is wayyyyyyy higher than the lives we live. In other words,,,,,"give and take" is now becoming a lost art.
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