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Joined: 7/10/2006
Msg: 40
I think I get it.Page 5 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)
One more vote for commonsens' answer (#30).

I would add one more element, however.

There is something insidiously seductive about that attitude.

It's easy to point out the flaws of others while refusing to look in the mirror, especially when you know (at some level, at least) that you'll be staring at a bowl of sh*t when you do.

It's all very well to preach that others should have enough self-discipline to prioritize things besides their own desires on occasion, but it's less entertaining when it comes to your turn. And anyone that denies that is pretty full of it.

I'll admit it-- I want instant gratification too. I want my life to be like the starring role in some 1980's teenage s*x comedy where everyone falls down laughing at my jokes, I get to bag an endless string of bikini-model nymphomaniacs who hang on my every word and they pay me Madoff Money to tool around a tropical paradise in a Ferrari.

EDIT: But tomorrow morning I'm getting up at the sound of the alarm, showering, shaving and going to work, like most people, men and women.
Joined: 10/19/2007
Msg: 41
I think I get it.
Posted: 7/27/2009 4:19:02 PM
Is it not as simple as the most important element to any decent relationship... communication? I have heard many stories where it comes down to two people becoming so complacent and routine that they are actually living their own seperate lives, yet in a relationship. Ask a bunch of single people how good the communication was in their relationship. I would bet you money that most would say... What communication?

Relationships are like work. I think they are very much like a job. You need to be upgrading your skills. You need to have meetings. You need to have goals. You need to have team building exercises... and on and on.

I blame communication.
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 42
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I think I get it.
Posted: 7/27/2009 7:32:33 PM
After reading all of this, and agreeing with much of it; yes, relationships have become disposable, and, yes, many people remain in dysfunctional relationships because it is, in some ways, easier.. I have come to the conclusion that the best piece of advice I have ever given my children is... spend some time living alone, learn how to be by yourself, do things yourself, love yourself... . some things are just sad. We shouldn't "need" a relationship, we should want to share our lives with a particular person. We shouldn't need to be "completed", rather to be complemented. Things have changed so much, yet not at all.
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 43
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I think I get it.
Posted: 7/27/2009 10:24:34 PM
The easy answer is "kick 'em to the kerb", it is much more difficult to get to the bottom of "what's wrong?" and "what could be done about it to move it in a positive direction".

I'm beginning to suspect that people have a different relationship to duty and honour and at the core of it lies individualism... where what *I* want takes precedence over what anyone else wants/needs.

We are, in many ways, a society in pain... and the pain echoes in the forums.
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 50
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:24:00 AM
It all depends on what the circumstances are and at what stage the "relationship" is. I see the majority of the forum posts where people are urged to move on are relatively new relationships. What sense does it make to "work on" a new relationship when, at that time, people are generally at their best behaviour. If the treatment is ridiculous at this best behaviour stage, what can one expect to get way better when that best behaviour phase starts to tarnish? That's not even flogging a dead horse, that's trying to flog one that hasn't even been born yet with the "work at it whip". Yesterday's forums certainly had a crop of wanna be relationships that would fall into this category.

Then you have the relationships that have some form of longevity to them with a pattern of the same sickness throughout. Where exactly do you see the benefit of working on something for even more months/years when it has proven to be toxic to at least one individual in the relationship?

Yes, relationships are filled with compromise and the ability to communicate, at least the ones where both parties are willing to compromise and communicate. Where people are urged to get out is where it's been displayed that there is no compromise, no communication, a whole lot of self-centeredness and just plain sick behaviours displayed. Banging your head against a brick wall feels wonderful...when you stop.
Joined: 1/27/2009
Msg: 51
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:30:21 AM
Fantastic thread, cause and effect, and just about everyone agrees on the effect of the socio-economic environment. Communication goes without saying, even with that, sometimes we can't work out our differences....maybe marriage has given way to "Speed Relationships".....
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 52
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I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 9:42:17 AM

Doesn't it all come down to communication? Can you not think of a situation in your past that was indirectly or directly related to some kind of communication failure? Where I think the biggest "gaff" in communication is... is in our listening and relating skills. Do you take time to reiterate what you have heard, back to the one you heard it from, for confirmation of what they are saying to you? I think this is where we can get in trouble.

Usually it is not a communication problem so much as a problem with perception and interpretation. In most cases, people are speaking to each other (unless the relationship has really unravelled to entrenched positions) but are either not "getting it" or the way their life view lines up is out of alignment.

For example, when listening to another trying to explain their feelings to you, do you stay focused on what the other person is saying and their message or have you taken something from their words and run off with it in your mind? So often, (I think) people will not take the time to truly understand and relate to what they are hearing. I know this is something that has effected me and I am guilty of it still from time to time.

Stephen Covey said "Seek first to understand and only then be understood". It certainly seems like many people think the communication process is "Speak. Wait to Speak." I personally think most problems would dissipate if we spent more time on active listening and had our going in position as: "this person understands things different than I do and I'm not right". We're hardly ever right about things - it is just our interpretation of events and stories in our life.
Joined: 7/16/2009
Msg: 54
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 10:12:33 AM philosphy on relationships is 'enjoy each other until you don't' , which probably would seem to prove your point. However, I don't mean that in any disrespectful or non-committal manner. I only used this philosophy on one relationship, my last one (I feel I finally learned you can't force things) lasted 5 years and was terriffic. The reason for the break-up was not a failure on either of our parts or the relationship..he is 14 years younger than me. I've raised my daughter, done all the things you do when you're young. And he hasn't. I felt very strongly that us staying together would keep him stagnant in some ways (which it was doing). Right or wrong, it wasn't because the relationship failed though. So, the way we handled things....gave each other personal space, took responsibility for our own happiness & our own lives, kept our separate living arrangements,etc. THere were also some things we had to work through and some we still struggled with (but would not be anything either of us would consider ending the relationship over). I think that relationships, even with the best of everything, have struggles. That's part of what makes them stronger. And what you deal with. The good and the bad. None of us is perfect. Men and women are so very differnt...which is super friggin cool as far as I'm concerned. And I'll take the problems that come with that. I am both amazed and flabbergasted at you men sometimes! Love it.
By taking it one day at a time, it's like not taking anything for granted. Being appreciative and grateful for each other every day, which is also the way I live my life. I want someone who I think of with a smile on my face first thing when I open my eyes in the morning...and as I'm drifting off to sleep at the end of the day. And, in between , we will live our lives both separately and together. I don't think that's impossible. I do think by taking personal responsibility and having good, open communication, and not trying to make clones of each other, that you can knock out 90% of the bullshit. But before you get to any of that , you need (imo) to be whole yourself and to know yourself, to have strong chemistry, strong sexual attraction, some like interests, respect for yourself and each other..and your relationship, a committment to the relationship, and have similar life philosophies. Then, when life throws stuff at you, like kids, job issues, etc can handle it as a team. Just my opinion. And I think some things that contribute to relationships failing are:

1) people don't address themselves first
2) people want ideals/fantasy, not reality
3) people don't have the basic matching first (which is when I tend to say run away)
4) people lack the integrity it takes to maintain the integrity of a relationship

These are , of course, just my humble opinions. Peace. K
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 55
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I think I get it.
Posted: 8/12/2009 11:42:46 AM
^^ That's a good list ependa.

If I flip the question around... "What makes a good relationship" or "What makes a good relationship succeed" it all really boils down to someone being compatible with who you really are. That is, I believe, the "basic matching" ependa speaks of. If you resonate, really resonate, together I think the sailing weather just got 80% better.

My sweetie and I are compatible - we fit together like puzzle pieces. (Well, he might be missing one.) I'm considered a fairly good communicator, and a pretty understanding person... yet every relationship I have had has really required these skills to "work on the relationship". And I've worked on previous relationships and myself until it followed its almost inevitable trajectory. (Why do I suddenly have the lyrics "Crash and Burn, Crash and Burn" echoing in my brain?)

It's quite a contrast with my sweetie, where things have been effortless. I believe it is because we are so compatible and have learned so much about ourselves. We know ourselves really well; still learning of course, but a really good grounding of self awareness makes it much, much easier to relate with another person well. We've had life throw some stuff at us, as it always will, and we're both flawed people who have things the other needs to give some space to... but the sorting out or meeting the challenges or giving space hasn't required "work".
Joined: 6/2/2009
Msg: 58
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/14/2009 10:38:56 AM
The forums are not representative of ordinary, everyday life. Relationship tales told here very often involve extreme circumstances to the point that it's hard to understand how the originating poster even allowed him/herself to get into the situation. There's a reason they're choosing a semi-anonymous venue to vent, after all...

That's why you see a lot of advice here to get out.

There's no correlation, IMO, between this and what people tell one another in person, and/or when they're more likely to have the whole story; there's no Greek chorus everywhere singing, "Single is better!" If anything, when single, we are pushed to "Get out there and find someone!"

I have been following this thread with interest, and do agree that many give up too easily. However, I think that is a complex cultural problem with many wide roots, having little or nothing to do with direct advice from others. All else aside, how often is that advice heeded?
Joined: 6/24/2009
Msg: 59
I think I get it.
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:24:54 PM

This also makes me think that people just don't have the "work ethic" needed to make a relationship work. Too many are quick to judge and blame. Too many think that because they have had poor relationships, they are experts and that the ultimate solution is to GIVE UP. Maybe that is why there are so many people flocking to websites like this as they would rather start over, than work on what they had.

This is a valid point, but the effort needs to be coming from both people. It's pretty pointless to stay and keep trying with someone who won't meet you halfway. It's very tiresome to carry the dead weight of a partner who won't do thier share to keep things mutually satisfying.
Joined: 5/7/2005
Msg: 63
I think I get it.
Posted: 12/27/2009 8:15:53 AM

Quit doing the SAME things all the time. Loosen up. Quit being so prudish. Do some of the things you secretly WISH you'd do. Sheesh! Boring, boring, boring. Reinvent yourself as a partner sometimes. Be brave little piglets!

Sorry,,, I had to giggle at this one. Only because I see endless "lists" of what people require before they will even e-mail ya.I suggest this "reinvention" is almost impossible for the majority,,,especially when they reach a certain age,,,,and "know what they want" or "what they don't want",,,,,all because of past experinces.

I know our experinces are one of the few things that we can go by,,,,but for the majority,,,,these instances are usually only experinced ONCE,,,and then they refer to it for the rest of their lives and act accordingly like it's set in stone. ie... "my last hubby smoked dope and he was a couch potatoe." or " the younger ones have more energy and appreciate me more" or "my hubby just got boring as we aged together". Experinces,,,good or bad,,,are just bricks that we use to build our walls,,,,,if we do not totally understand what happened during our past experinces. Sometimes that involves looking in the mirror and taking some of the blame,,,,,or at least admitting you were part of the equation. Again,,,something a lot of people are not able to do,,,,,,,honestly.

Most of us,,,,,if we are seriously honest with ourselves,,,,deserve to be single,,,because of our expectations of others is wayyyyyyy higher than the lives we live. In other words,,,,,"give and take" is now becoming a lost art.
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