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 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 289
CapitalismPage 14 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)

And what is the most profitable form of capitalism? Larceny, trafficking in contraband, and extortion- in short, organized crime. Great model there, GREAT model...
not to be rude here but why are you comparing organized crime to Capitalism?
Larceny,trafficking , extortion are the hallmark of criminals and/or criminal organizations.
 smiley_mcgee
Joined: 5/26/2011
Msg: 290
Capitalism
Posted: 6/17/2011 12:14:17 PM

And what is the most profitable form of capitalism? Larceny, trafficking in contraband, and extortion- in short, organized crime. Great model there, GREAT model...

Ha! That's funny.
Yeah. They should stop calling it larceny. They should form a union and call it dues. Or their own city government and call it eminent domain.
Then they can get over that whole "unlawful" part.

Let's see..trafficking in contraband..Isn't that what we do to, say, Qadafi's freedom fighters?
Or to the Taliban in Afghanistan? The contras?
Don't we facilitate trafficking in order to gain information? Allow smaller operations to continue, protected, to get the bigger ones? Like the not so long ago operation, and subsequent CBS investigation, to ship guns to Mexico which were found to have been used to kill border agents? Ooops.

And extortion? What would you call what Obama did to get his health care bill passed? "You'll find out what's in it once its passed" and all that. Oh, call it politics, not extortion (especially when it's behind closed doors).
Or what Bush Jr. did to go to war in Iraq?

None of those things you mention are really capitalism. They are profitable. Extremely. One sided. Capitalism is profit for everyone. Capitalism is based on free will and property ownership rights. It's inherent to it.
Taking of property, violating another countries laws in business with the citizens or manipulating governments, and forced transactions aren't really capitalism.
They really are anti capitalism.

So yeah, great model.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 291
Capitalism
Posted: 6/17/2011 1:23:58 PM
You just made the case for the post that you are trying to refute, except that you don't want to call Capitalism the ideology underpinning the system that involves the practices of larceny, trafficking in contraband, and extortion to achieve its goal of extracting the maximum of profit for the benefit of a few.

You say that the only Capitalism that we know of is "really anti capitalism." That is a good joke!

Yeah, imagine Ronald Reagan extolling the virtues of the contras, the criminal band that he and his cohorts financed because they were the "equivalent of our founding fathers" and they were going to install an "anti capitalist" system in Nicaragua after overthrowing the Sandinistas from power.

Anti capitalism!

But wait, here is the best one:


Capitalism is profit for everyone.


Ja, ja, ja.....
 flyguy51
Joined: 8/11/2005
Msg: 292
Capitalism
Posted: 6/17/2011 7:56:57 PM

why are you comparing organized crime to Capitalism?
Larceny,trafficking , extortion are the hallmark of criminals and/or criminal organizations.

Now, that is precious.

This thread is getting inundated with "no true Scotsmen." Perhaps we need immigration reform in the thread?
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 293
Capitalism
Posted: 6/18/2011 9:13:23 AM
I wish there was a emoticon for " rolling my eyes" good lord.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 294
view profile
History
Capitalism
Posted: 6/18/2011 10:14:00 AM
I still say that it's all a matter of degree. Freedom isn't a single absolute condition, and neither is "free market capitalism." It's whatever the folks who are in charge of it say it is. hence the need for SPECIFICITY in any discussion of what should be included in the concept, and what should not.
There's no pint to getting "huffy" on either side of things, for the simple reason that there IS no agreed upon authority for what is or is not Capitalism, or a free market, or an "even playing field," or any of the other things we've discussed.
 Cdn_Iceman
Joined: 12/1/2010
Msg: 295
Capitalism
Posted: 6/18/2011 11:47:57 AM
Igor, we're going round and round like a merry go round, I agree there is no " free market"
A free market means no one is in charge , most business people/capitalists dont want to be in charge of the system, but the government sure wants to be in charge.

There are business owners that want to be in charge of the market and most of them cannot make it in a free market society.


for the simple reason that there IS no agreed upon authority for what is or is not Capitalism, or a free market
That I agree with you 100%

For the record Im not against regulations that makes sense, that protects rights/society, that allows a true business to prosper without government intervention, this is where we butt heads.
 dabearsguy
Joined: 5/3/2008
Msg: 296
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History
Capitalism
Posted: 10/5/2011 1:01:48 AM
“The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.” Winston Churchill
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 297
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History
Capitalism
Posted: 10/7/2011 3:47:36 AM
dabears: As with most quotes from politicians, that one has plenty of pith, but no meat to chew. Churchill was in his prime when socialism was known primarily as the USSR's kind. That he didn't therefore think it was anything BUT misery is understandable.

I'm not a socialist myself, but as with Capitalism, there are many shades of socialism out there, and there are lots of CAPITALIST states, which the anti-socialists pretend are SOCIALIST states, simply because they don't like this or that modification of Capitalism there. Heck, there are a fair number of folks in the U.S. who think this country turned Socialist the moment the Federal Government got the right to tax us.

I think we passed the point a good while ago where it was EASY to say which country is socialist, and which is Capitalist, and have it be a HUGE differentiation.
 Doremi_Fasolatido
Joined: 2/14/2009
Msg: 298
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History
Capitalism
Posted: 10/9/2011 2:16:07 PM
I think Capitalism is a great economic system. However, like Government it needs checks and balances to prevent those at the top of the ladder from totally screwing those at the bottom of the ladder.

Unions have been obtaining for their members a fair share of the economic pie for years now. Unity among those on the lower rungs of the Capitalist ladder is one of the ways to increase the rate of the "trickle". Those at the top of the ladder realise this and that is why they are trying to divide people.

There really is enough for everyone out there. Those who are willing to work hard should be fairly compensated for their efforts. People united are the best way to insure that everyone is paid fairly. The protesters on Wall St. realise this but are lacking a unifying force.

Capitalism....It's people ....Buying , selling,producing. Excluding workers from reaping the profits of this system could be it's demise. Especially if the average Joe feels he is being screwed by it....
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 299
Capitalism
Posted: 10/9/2011 2:20:36 PM

dabears: As with most quotes from politicians, that one has plenty of pith, but no meat to chew. Churchill was in his prime when socialism was known primarily as the USSR's kind. That he didn't therefore think it was anything BUT misery is understandable.

I'm sorry, but this is utter nonsense.

Churchill said mean things about socialism because he was running against socialists. Heck, in 1945 the socialists won the election and he became leader of the opposition. Upon the turnover of government he also said, "Today a taxicab will pull up to Number 10 Downing Street and nobody will get out." He was a great politician and a master of the insult.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 300
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History
Capitalism
Posted: 10/9/2011 3:22:32 PM
I have no idea where you pulled that from. I will, and I have pointed out that capitalism more closely fits with human nature, and hence I support it myself, but as to the claim that somehow (one of the versions of) the Bible has anything to do with it, you are on your own. The Bible doesn't say anything about "free market capitalism," and especially in the sections about Jesus, it rather goes against it in many places. There is no such thing as "Bible economics."
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 301
Capitalism
Posted: 10/9/2011 4:38:55 PM

Agreed.
Biblical economics supports Capitalism as it is the inevitable product of the Bible's law-order which is why most non- Christians support socialism.
When America adheres to the judicial specifics of the Bible, it produces free market capitalism.

Holy crap! What Bible are your referencing: The Satanic Bible? Every time any group of Christians has sought to organize their society around Jesus' teachings, they always end up with socialism. Long before the term was even invented. The Diggers and Levellers; the Hutterites; the Shakers.

How could anyone miss the central message of the New Testament? Give all your money to the poor. Visit the prisoners (The Elizabeth Fry Society came out of this one). Help the sick and destitute.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 302
Capitalism
Posted: 10/9/2011 5:11:25 PM

Agreed.
Biblical economics supports Capitalism as it is the inevitable product of the Bible's law-order which is why most non- Christians support socialism.
When America adheres to the judicial specifics of the Bible, it produces free market capitalism.


Holy crap! What Bible are your referencing: The Satanic Bible?


That is a very good guess. It must be one of the props used by the charlatans, along with the flute and the pot full of snakes to seduce the gullible and uninformed.

Biblical economics? It sounds like a new discipline. What do we know? We might end up learning something that had been kept a secret for thousands of years.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 303
Capitalism
Posted: 10/12/2011 9:16:49 AM


There is no such thing as "Bible economics."


Oh masterful one, thank you for your correction. My bad.
"Biblical economics is about placing value where God places value; esteeming what He esteems, desiring what He desires. In other words, biblical economics is about stewardship."-Dr. (and professor) R.C. Sproul


Wow! Now I am wondering what kind of biblical economics were practicing those precursors of our modern free market capitalists, the money-changers who were practicing their trade in the temple when Jesus whipped their asses out of the house of God.
 Bladesmith81801
Joined: 10/30/2010
Msg: 304
Capitalism
Posted: 10/12/2011 1:57:16 PM
The Bible never makes reference to nor uses the term "dressin in drag" or "racial profiling", yet we all will agree that both are unBiblical and ungodly. No?
Naturally the phrases and terms we use today were not common nor even yet created when the Bible was written and completed. We can not claim that because the words "socialism" and "capitalism" are not used, affirmed and/or condemned in the Bible as proof that the principles of the two are not.
There is no such thing as "Bible economics."
Oh masterful one, thank you for your correction. My bad.
"Biblical economics is about placing value where God places value; esteeming what He esteems, desiring what He desires. In other words, biblical economics is about stewardship."-Dr. (and professor) R.C. Sproul
In example, in the Book of Leviticus we read "Land must not be sold in perpetuity, for he belongs to me and you are only strangers and guests. You will allow a right of redemption on all your landed property."
This concept is taught throughout the entire Bible, no other teaching is indicated prior to the time of Moses, nor is the teaching anywhere in the Bible repealed. It is repeated and reinforced byevery Prophet recorded.

An old Zen saying: “In matters of religion, most persons prefer chewing the menu to actually eating the food!”
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 305
view profile
History
Capitalism
Posted: 10/13/2011 3:30:29 PM

The Bible never makes reference to nor uses the term "dressin in drag" or "racial profiling", yet we all will agree that both are unBiblical and ungodly. No?


NO.

Clearly, you base your conclusions entirely on various INTERPRETATIONS of one or more versions of what is known commonly as the Holy Bible. Therefore, everything you say in reference to it ONLY applies when you are talking to fellow, identical believers. None of what you draw from that, or any other religious text, applies to any discussions that are not religiously based.

This one is not. Nor are yours based on the ENTIRE Christian Bible.


And so the answer is, NO.
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