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Show ALL Forums  > Off Topic  > "The Russians are coming" ....again????      Home login  
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 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 15
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The Russians are coming ....again????Page 3 of 3    (1, 2, 3)

The Nazis were certainly big fans of homosexuality and overall very pleasant people.


You're making the assumption that a country wouldn't evolve from 1945 to 2014. Russia didn't stay the same from 1945 to 2014, so why would Germany, especially when it has closer ties to Western culture? I've already explained how Western society is more accepting of homosexuality than Eastern society today. The world didn't accept homosexuality during world war 2, not just the Germans. I won't explain why homosexuals were targeted by Nazis since I assume most people have a basic knowledge of history. There were many moderate German commanders during this time like Rommel. My grandfather was conscripted to fight for the Wehrmacht and never had a violent bone in his body.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 16
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/24/2014 9:35:53 PM

My grandfather was a colonel in the Red Army and made it all the way to Berlin. It's good they never met and we're both here today.


I'm more thankful that my grandmother didn't meet the friendly Red Army. My grandfather was captured on three occasions. He escaped and then posed as a Danish farmer and buried his uniform. After the war, he helped the reconstruction efforts and joined his wife in Canada a few years later. He was a supply officer in the military.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 17
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/25/2014 12:10:45 PM

Those girls who did a dance in a church in front of the altar? I'd personally whip their ass.


Why? Wasn't it just a protest?

What about the people who march in protest for one reason or another ... should they also eventually expect some sort of ass whipping?

OT ...
http://www.politico.com/story/2014/04/american-troops-eastern-europe-ukraine-russia-105910.html
U.S. sending troops to Eastern Europe
The U.S. is sending about 600 ground troops to Eastern Europe this week to “reassure” allies there as Washington resumes its campaign of pressure on Russia over the Ukraine standoff.

About 150 soldiers from the 173rd Infantry Brigade Combat Team (Airborne), based in Italy, are heading to each of four countries — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia — in rotational deployments that the Pentagon says will be sustained until further notice.

The paratroopers will take weapons and ammunition for “infantry exercises” and be in place by the end of the week, Pentagon Press Secretary Rear Adm. John Kirby told reporters at the Pentagon. The roughly company-sized units will remain in place for about a month, and then new ones will follow them until at least the end of the year.


Oh great ... here we go again!
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 18
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/25/2014 12:52:29 PM

Why? Wasn't it just a protest?

What about the people who march in protest for one reason or another ... should they also eventually expect some sort of ass whipping?


It depends what country you live in. In some countries, you're not allowed to say certain things without being jailed or executed.


Oh great ... here we go again!


I hope the situation will get better. Russia doesn't need to steal land from the Ukraine. The thing that annoys me is that I would love to visit the Ukraine. Half of my family is from the Ukraine and I would love to visit Odessa to see the catacombs.


Because it is a church, and the parishioners who go there to pray to God deserve a little respect for their sacred site. If these girls did the same protest out on a public square, I would not give a rat's ass.
See the link attached: Universal Code of Conduct on Holy Sites.
http://www.sfcg.org/programmes/jerusalem/ucchs.pdf
"Holy Sites are places of profound significance and sacred religious attachment whose special character and integrity are to be preserved"


I would agree that protesting inside a church isn't appropriate. I do think the punishment was pretty severe though. Then again, during the olympics, the Russian police only whipped them on live tv, so I guess they're getting more moderate.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 19
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/25/2014 1:01:33 PM

Because it is a church ...
Hmmmm ... I guess I'm really lucky that the church I attended wouldn't have considered it at all a problem. We would have just considered it an expression of their opinion ... and free thoughts are encouraged at the church I occasionally attend.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 20
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/25/2014 2:26:20 PM

Perhaps, and there is no doubt that it was political. However, Russia has a long history of churches being desecrated and disrespected during Communism starting with Lenin's times. (The church where I went as a child in Moscow, was only opened to worshippers in 1989, and between 1937 and 1989 it was closed and used as a storage facility.) Some churches were destroyed, some had the cupola taken off, some "just" closed. It took and continues to take so much effort and so many donations to restore them. So, what they did understandably hit a nerve with a lot of people. If someone tried the same at St. Peter's at the Vatican or at St. Patrick's in NY, I'm sure they would not get patted on the back either.


They probably wouldn't live to tell about it if they did it at Mecca. I can understand people being sensitive over holy sites that have been damaged over the years. Two years in jail for a protest is a bit long in my opinion, but I'm sure they have their reasons. By the way, do you speak Russian? I'm trying to learn Hungarian. I really like how Europe has so many different cultures and languages in a "small" area.
The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/25/2014 11:42:13 PM
imported_labor:


Ya know...beyond all critiques this way and that, about Putin, Obama, whether or not something is being handled like everyone feels that it should be, etc...it is sad. Sad, unfortunate, because no matter what else, despite everything else...if things are pushed very far, no matter what else happens in the details, including Europe or U.S.A. sustaining some damage in whatever respects or when and how they respond, there is one thing that is "for sure". One guaranteed result, no matter what other things result depending on what direction everything plays out. And that result is that Russia will be screwed up. No matter what else, Russia will basically self-destruct/be smashed in some respects relatively. No matter how else it all ends up - even if substantial "damage" is sustained elsewhere, the one who won't recover very well is Russia, and that includes it's standing in the eyes of the rest of the world. And I say that this is sad, because what we've been trying to do for some decades now if not centuries is move the world into a better future which includes nations behaving better in many ways, and Russia is trying to take some steps backwards. I'd like to see Russia finally become something better, but what's going on lately will not take Russia in that direction.
What kind of scenario are you talking about? The only way that Russia could be damaged beyond recovery would be an all-out nuclear war. I don't think that there would be a "rest of the world" after such a confrontation, at least not one that would include Europe and the US. Do you think that the Russians would care much about what other countries think of them after they are attacked with nuclear weapons?

I think that I was not including a serious nuclear exchange, without realizing it, when saying "no matter what direction things go". Maybe I'm in denial. I somehow have this idea, or hope, that if things escalate between two nations which have nuclear arms, they can escalate quite a bit yet all involved will refrain from doing that.

I'm thinking that perhaps the MAD idea will take precedence even in Putin's mind precisely because his motivations are trying to do well for Russia or just for himself, and no matter how violent, destructive, or bloody things get, anyone in his position will figure that going that far will defeat that purpose...that at that point instead of reacting from being stubborn, all concerned will have the sense to not go that far.
 DameWrite
Joined: 2/27/2010
Msg: 22
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/27/2014 12:09:38 PM
This pretty much explains it...

http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/west-marches-east-part-one.html#.U11V1lfeR-7

Who is really coming?
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 23
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/27/2014 12:42:52 PM

This pretty much explains it...

http://www.hamptoninstitution.org/west-marches-east-part-one.html#.U11V1lfeR-7

Who is really coming?


The Russians don't recognize the government of Ukraine as legitimate and they think all of Ukraine should belong to them. The so called "occupations" of Iraq and Afghanistan didn't result in the United States gaining land. If they were occupied, why is the United States military leaving and setting up democratic elections? The world is trying to stop Russia from taking land that doesn't belong to them. I don't see a problem with that. They tried to Eastern Europe before World War 2 and people fought back.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 24
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/27/2014 5:47:52 PM


Who is really coming?

The Russians don't recognize the government of Ukraine as legitimate and they think all of Ukraine should belong to them.

I'm not sure that's entirely accurate.

My nephew's wife just returned home from Russia and she tells me that the word there is that Putin just wants everyone who wants to "belong" to Russia ... be allowed.


The so called "occupations" of Iraq and Afghanistan didn't result in the United States gaining land.
That's because they went seeking something other than acquiring land. They went for many reasons and one was to harvest natural resources.

I thought everyone was aware of that. We went to Iraq to harvest oil. Does anyone know what there might be in Afghanistan for us to harvest? I do.


The world is trying to stop Russia from taking land that doesn't belong to them.
The world ... or the United States?

I know this might not be a popular thing to say ... but I suspect the US is very interested in redeeming themselves based on their illegal actions in Iraq and Afghanistan ... because to be honest, what's going on with Ukraine is really none of our business.

They should leave that to the EU ... they're closer and they have a much better understanding for what is necessary there. We are ignorant of European and Eastern European culture and we need to keep our noses out of it.


I don't see a problem with that.

I do ... they need to keep their nose out of it. It's none of our business.

We need to place as much value and urgency on taking care of our poor and our hungry children.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 25
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/27/2014 6:06:22 PM

The world ... or the United States?

I know this might not be a popular thing to say ... but I suspect the US is very interested in redeeming themselves based on their illegal actions in Iraq and Afghanistan ... because to be honest, what's going on with Ukraine is really none of our business.

They should leave that to the EU ... they're closer and they have a much better understanding for what is necessary there. We are ignorant of European and Eastern European culture and we need to keep our noses out of it.


The world is. That's why NATO countries like Canada are also sending military units. NATO requested Canadian participation. If world powers like the United States allow Russia to take land from sovereign nations, then it sets a precedent that Russia can do whatever it wants without getting a response from such powers.


I do ... they need to keep their nose out of it. It's none of our business.

We need to place as much value and urgency on taking care of our poor and our hungry children.


Do you also believe that Canada and the United States should have stayed out of world war one and two? The military also provides jobs to millions of people and allows them to get an education. No one complains when a mother or father in the military makes money to feed his family.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 26
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/27/2014 7:34:52 PM

If world powers like the United States allow Russia to take land from sovereign nations, then it sets a precedent that Russia can do whatever it wants without getting a response from such powers.
Seriously?

You don't find anything about that statement to chuckle about?

The US lets their "junior" bullies do it all the time ... and have never done anything to stop it.


No one complains when a mother or father in the military makes money to feed his family.
What a great reason to go to war ... somewhere. I didn't see that working out well during the "Dumbya"regime ... why is this different?

I don't see our VA swarming to help the current vets with their problems. Why in the world would we want to create more of the same problems? We currently can't take care of our "vet problems" ... so let's just go make more problems for them and the countries we go into?

Well, buy maybe we were able to use up all our "dirty" / "depleted uranium" bombs during the previous regime and wouldn't employ that despicable tactic ... or the torture" tactic.

I've got a good idea ... why don't we just throw a few slips of paper in a helmet somewhere with various nations' names on them and draw a couple papers. I mean let's at least give our head of military something challenging to do while deciding who we will go to war with next.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 27
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/27/2014 10:32:02 PM

Seriously?

You don't find anything about that statement to chuckle about?

The US lets their "junior" bullies do it all the time ... and have never done anything to stop it.


Who are their "junior bullies"? Are you talking about the Syrian rebels that they're funding? I'm still not sure why you think it's okay for Russia to take land from a sovereign nation.


What a great reason to go to war ... somewhere. I didn't see that working out well during the "Dumbya"regime ... why is this different?


Who said anything about going to war? The military does a lot of other activities besides "going to war".


I don't see our VA swarming to help the current vets with their problems. Why in the world would we want to create more of the same problems? We currently can't take care of our "vet problems" ... so let's just go make more problems for them and the countries we go into?


The government should take care of its vets. People complain about the same thing in Canada. Unfortunately, this doesn't mean we can ignore what's happening on the global stage after becoming part of organizations like NATO.


Well, buy maybe we were able to use up all our "dirty" / "depleted uranium" bombs during the previous regime and wouldn't employ that despicable tactic ... or the torture" tactic.


I'm not sure what you're trying to say. They used depleted uranium mostly to give tanks more armor because of its strength.


I've got a good idea ... why don't we just throw a few slips of paper in a helmet somewhere with various nations' names on them and draw a couple papers. I mean let's at least give our head of military something challenging to do while deciding who we will go to war with next.


They want to protect Ukraine, not go to war with Russia. The exact same thing happened when Iraq invaded Kuwait. It wasn't "random". They were protecting a sovereign nation from an aggressor.
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 28
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/28/2014 8:35:23 PM


The US lets their "junior" bullies do it all the time ... and have never done anything to stop it.

Who are their "junior bullies"?
Yeah right ... like you don't know who that is ... You do a good job of feigning innocence ... ... keep it up, some dumb woman might even find it cute.


Are you talking about the Syrian rebels that they're funding?
Nope ... the "junior bullies" belong to us ... we fund them and they gladly do the dirty work.

I'm still not sure why you think it's okay for Russia to take land from a sovereign nation.

I never said it was "okay" ... I just said it's none of our business and I believe the EU should be able to deal with it. They will do an "okay" job dealing with it.

We are not the bosses of the world ... even though we try to be.

Who said anything about going to war? The military does a lot of other activities besides "going to war".
Yeah we know ... they're put in charge to train the very people they were indoctrinated to hate and call names and demean ... and can't understand why their trainees want to kill them ...

I have friends who have been to boot camp since 911 and they have told me what their training consisted of.


... maybe we were able to use up all our "dirty" / "depleted uranium" bombs during the previous regime and wouldn't employ that despicable tactic ... or the torture" tactic.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say. They used depleted uranium mostly to give tanks more armor because of its strength.
Yeah right ... our troops would never thrust any kind of illegal bomb at a supposed enemy! You might want to look into the new "Silver Bullet" in the U.S. arsenal. They are depleted uranium weapons.

Your feigning innocence about our use of dirty bombs / DU bombs is just laughable.

We were throwing "depleted uranium bombs" at the Iraqis and Afghans.

Now I suppose you're also going to feign innocence about the side affects of it's use. Read up on how good it is for our bodies and our health ... not to mention how good it is for the people who have to live with it's residue alll the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

Now imagine you are living with it sprinkled all over your back yard. Now imagine what affect it will have on your unborn children as well. Oh the joys of living in a war zone when other countries illegally invade your country so they can steal your natural resources.

Experts say the Department of Energy has 100 million tons of DU and using it in weapons saves the government money on the cost of its disposal.

OT ...
We need to butt out when it comes to the Russians and their dealings with Ukraine. The EU is well-equipped to deal with it.

If you don't want the "Russians coming" ... don't antagonize them. They really don't want our land or anything we have. We have no business sticking our noses in it. There are enough other nations in the world who should be dealing with them ... not us.
 gtomustang
Joined: 6/16/2007
Msg: 29
The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/28/2014 9:07:03 PM
the last time we "allowed" the Russians to take a foriegn country, it was Afganistan. Sure didn't help their economy too much. alas, if only there were Muslims in Ukraine, then the Saudis could fund a jihad there with our assistance (and arms from Libya, our new source), and we could watch Putin get drained dry while we sold natural gas to Europe.

Our military has one use only--well, two if a country gets flooded. Any talk about doing something in Ukraine has to answer first the question:what happens when it escalates? Thinking Putin is going to run as soon as we land Marines with sandblasted machinery leftover from Iraq, is just plain silly. It WILL escalate, and how far do we want to go? will we get the same European/NATO support we got during Bosnia? its not like we send in the military to Africa every time something flares up. If you want to protect Ukraine yet not go to war with Russia...you are weak from the beginning, and don't think the Kremlin can't figure that one out.

Our military budget is 50% of the Fed budget, and those "vet problems" will in the future become the biggest part of the Pentagon's expenses. So much for cutting the Fed budget anytime soon. Depleted uranium is used often--heck, we sell it to the Israelis to use it in the attack choppers they buy from us, and its showing up in the soil in the Occupied Territories. then there's the clusterbombs, designed to seed an european battlefield during a Russian invasion.

and who's really the good guy and bad guy in Ukraine? We better figure that out, our track record for backing the wrong people goes back to Vietnam.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 30
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/28/2014 10:35:37 PM

Yeah right ... like you don't know who that is ... You do a good job of feigning innocence ... ... keep it up, some dumb woman might even find it cute.


Are you calling my girlfriend a "dumb woman"? She would be delighted to hear such a compliment from a well mannered person like yourself.


Nope ... the "junior bullies" belong to us ... we fund them and they gladly do the dirty work.


The United States is funding Syrian rebels. I would consider them bullies since they're trying to commit genocide against Christians.


Yeah we know ... they're put in charge to train the very people they were indoctrinated to hate and call names and demean ... and can't understand why their trainees want to kill them ...

I have friends who have been to boot camp since 911 and they have told me what their training consisted of.


9/11 was an attack motivated by religion. It had nothing to do with training people.


I never said it was "okay" ... I just said it's none of our business and I believe the EU should be able to deal with it. They will do an "okay" job dealing with it.

We are not the bosses of the world ... even though we try to be.


America is part of NATO and has just as much responsibility as Canada when asked to participate in NATO missions like the one happening in Poland.


Yeah right ... our troops would never thrust any kind of illegal bomb at a supposed enemy! You might want to look into the new "Silver Bullet" in the U.S. arsenal. They are depleted uranium weapons.

Your feigning innocence about our use of dirty bombs / DU bombs is just laughable.

We were throwing "depleted uranium bombs" at the Iraqis and Afghans.

Now I suppose you're also going to feign innocence about the side affects of it's use. Read up on how good it is for our bodies and our health ... not to mention how good it is for the people who have to live with it's residue alll the time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Depleted_uranium

Now imagine you are living with it sprinkled all over your back yard. Now imagine what affect it will have on your unborn children as well. Oh the joys of living in a war zone when other countries illegally invade your country so they can steal your natural resources.

Experts say the Department of Energy has 100 million tons of DU and using it in weapons saves the government money on the cost of its disposal.


How am I feigning innocence about shells made from depleted uranium? They're not illegal. You would have an easier time charging the American military under environmental laws. There is a lack of conclusive scientific evidence about the effects on health from depleted uranium. They use it because it can pierce the armor of tanks. In regards to the war in Iraq, Hussein was the first one to break international law. He attacked planes in the no-fly zone and attacked Irbil in Kurdistan. The fact is, some people say the war is legal and some say it's illegal. There was no conclusion. The ones that say it was legal cite existing UN security resolutions and claim that it was resuming a halted struggle that began during the Gulf War. I notice that you talk a lot about depleted uranium, but nothing about what Hussein did to the Marsh Arabs, the Anfal campaign, the chemical weapon attacks against the Kurds, the villages he bulldozed, and the slaughter of thousands of Shiites in Southern Iraq.
The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/29/2014 4:49:18 PM
Can anyone tell me if my following perspectives are incorrect, and then why?

- Part of everything is the concern that entities like NATO and the EU are "expanding their borders" and "pushing east", as if it's a "conquest", "threat", or "invasion". Yea sure, things are no longer defined only by conventional/traditional nation-state borders, and entities now take different forms (like Islam Jihad also). But aren't entities like NATO and the EU largely about trying to bring the world together in practical respects towards some forms of "mutualism", wherein we cooperate more, lift each other up, abate war violence, and encourage recognition of human rights? To me, complaining about this is like legitimizing complaints of the Klingons or Romulans of the expansion of the Starfleet Federation, and the Federation's borders getting closer. What is the Federation? What are the borders of the Federation? The Federation is simply a collective of sovereign civilizations who are attempting to find various ways of cooperating with each other peacefully, and the Federation's "borders" are simply which civilizations are trying to be a part of this whole endeavor.

- When "we", the "west", or the U.S.A, tries to "build" a particular kind of government and economy in an unstable country...are we really trying to install a puppet entity and "expand an empire", or are we just trying to teach and help others to govern themselves in a way that more so recognizes human rights, moves away from tyranny, and has some economic system which empowers the populace?

- When people speak of the different ways by which everyone has been involved in war violence...has gotten their hands dirty, or rather bloody...isn't that just because that's the nature of things, inevitable, when the only way to not be guilty of something is to not do anything at all? Isn't it true that when you can't avoid any kind of war-like means, then any war will involve some war-violence or war-involvement of some kind? That you can't decide or justify who's "right" or who's "wrong" based simply on the fact that they've committed some war-oriented acts? And wouldn't it be prudent to recognize that on the scale of a world-stage, things are pretty damned complicated and precarious at any given time...so we can't judge such things too simplistically according to our normal experience, and we can't know everything about what's really going on and everything about what it really takes?

- What so much of this comes down to is a difference between philosophies of how to govern a populace, value the individual human being, and what economic model to pursue, no? Can we say that socialism or communism in old Russia failed because the idea is flawed, or simply almost because of chance and/or the "west" happened to be able to prevail? - Does it's defeat by the "west" serve as proof that it wouldn't be any good? And, were "our" economic ideas, embraced and benefitted from more and more by more of the world, really required for nations or the world to make progress?

- Yes...interwoven in everything done by the "west" is the guilt of some not-so-honorable acts and corruption...but is that definitive? Or is that just unavoidable, and should be seen as "you can't insure that everybody behaves perfectly every single moment"?

- When we say that "we shouldn't involve ourselves in other affairs", as with Ukraine & Russia, when we're trying to lift things up globally...is it not accurate to compare that to being on the school yard, making friends and helping out those friends while they help you out, telling them that you'll "have their back" if the mean kids or bullies come around, and then when the bullies come to steal your friend's lunch money you just sit back and say "that's none of my business", and you make it a habit to passively encourage the school yard to become a live-and-let-die, lawless frontier?
 cotter
Joined: 10/17/2005
Msg: 32
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The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/29/2014 5:43:05 PM


The US lets their "junior" bullies do it all the time ... and have never done anything to stop it.

Who are their "junior bullies"?
The US stands by and let's Israel steal neighboring land all the time and does nothing to stop it.

They need to be consistent. If they don't want other countries to do it, then they need to be just as consequential with Israel as they are with other countries. They fund Israel to the tune of billions and stand by and let them kill Palestinians and steal their land.

You baited that answer out of me and I'm aware of it. There's nothing innocent about you even though you put on a good act.


You do a good job of feigning innocence ... ... keep it up, some dumb woman might even find it cute.

Are you calling my girlfriend a "dumb woman"?
I don't know about your personal life and don't care about it. If you have a girlfriend or not is of no interest to me. Some women do find your act of innocence "cute", so keep it up and maybe you will actually score!


Nope ... the "junior bullies" belong to us ... we fund them and they gladly do the dirty work.

The United States is funding Syrian rebels. I would consider them bullies ...
I don't know about that and that wasn't on my mind when I wrote about our "friends" in Israel.

... since they're trying to commit genocide against Christians.
If you're so concerned about genocide, then it should be on equal terms.

The Zionists are doing the same with the Palestinians and I don't hear your concern about that. So "selective" genocide is okay with you ... right? Just don't pick on the Xtians, but it's okay to kill the Palestinians? They aren't worth it to you?


I have friends who have been to boot camp since 911 and they have told me what their training consisted of.

9/11 was an attack motivated by religion. It had nothing to do with training people.
Well if you have ever been to the military since 911 then you would know how they indoctrinate the folks in boot camp against the Muslims. Some of our own troops have complained about it ... as they themselves are Muslim and don't particularly appreciate it!

If you're so in favor of war, why don't you go sign up?

How am I feigning innocence about shells made from depleted uranium? They're not illegal.
Good ... then how about you go volunteer to live with the debris of the DU bombs. See how you like it.

While you're at it ... why not ask our precious military personnel who have physical damage (cancer and other severe ailments) from working in the debris and while you're at it ... why not just adopt a deformed Iraqi baby ... which is a result of our use of the DU bombs? Are you up to that? No? Yeah, I didn't think so.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-far-worse-than-9-11/2374
Depleted Uranium – Far Worse Than 9/11
(Excerpt)
Imagine a far worse scenario. Terrorists acquire a million pounds of the deadly dust and scatter it in populated areas throughout the U.S. Hundreds of children report symptoms. Many acquire cancer and leukemia, suffering an early and painful death. Huge increases in severe birth defects are reported. Oncologists are overwhelmed. Soccer fields, sand lots and parks, traditional play areas for kids, are no longer safe. People lose their most basic freedom, the ability to go outside and safely breathe. Sounds worse than 9/11? Welcome to Iraq and Afghanistan.

Dr. Jawad Al-Ali, director of the Oncology Center at the largest hospital in Basra, Iraq stated, at a recent ( 2003) conference in Japan:

Two strange phenomena have come about in Basra which I have never seen before. The first is double and triple cancers in one patient. For example, leukemia and cancer of the stomach. We had one patient with 2 cancers – one in his stomach and kidney. Months later, primary cancer was developing in his other kidney–he had three different cancer types. The second is the clustering of cancer in families. We have 58 families here with more than one person affected by cancer. Dr Yasin, a general Surgeon here has two uncles, a sister and cousin affected with cancer. Dr Mazen, another specialist, has six family members suffering from cancer. My wife has nine members of her family with cancer”.

Children in particular are susceptible to DU poisoning. They have a much higher absorption rate as their blood is being used to build and nourish their bones and they have a lot of soft tissues. Bone cancer and leukemia used to be diseases affecting them the most, however, cancer of the lymph system which can develop anywhere on the body, and has rarely been seen before the age of 12 is now also common.”,

We were accused of spreading propaganda for Saddam before the war. When I have gone to do talks I have had people accuse me of being pro-Saddam. Sometimes I feel afraid to even talk. Regime people have been stealing my data and calling it their own, and using it for their own agendas. The Kuwaitis banned me from entering Kuwait – we were accused of being Saddam supporters.

John Hanchette, a journalism professor at St. Bonaventure University, and one of the founding editors of USA TODAY related the following to DU researcher Leuren Moret. He stated that he had prepared news breaking stories about the effects of DU on Gulf War soldiers and Iraqi citizens, but that each time he was ready to publish, he received a phone call from the Pentagon asking him not to print the story. He has since been replaced as editor of USA TODAY.

Dr. Keith Baverstock, The World Health Organization’s chief expert on radiation and health for 11 years and author of an unpublished study has charged that his report ” on the cancer risk to civilians in Iraq from breathing uranium contaminated dust ” was also deliberately suppressed.

The information released by the U.S. Dept. of Defense is not reliable, according to some sources even within the military.

In 1997, while citing experiments, by others, in which 84 percent of dogs exposed to inhaled uranium died of cancer of the lungs, Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine at Georgetown University in Washington was quoted as saying,

The [US government's] Veterans Administration asked me to lie about the risks of incorporating depleted uranium in the human body.”


At that time Dr. Durakovic was a colonel in the U.S. Army. He has since left the military, to found the Uranium Medical Research Center, a privately funded organization with headquarters in Canada.

PFC Stuart Grainger of 23 Army Division, 34th Platoon. (Names and numbers have been changed) was diagnosed with cancer several after returning from Iraq. Seven other men in the Platoon also have malignancies.

Doug Rokke, U.S. Army contractor who headed a clean-up of depleted uranium after the first Gulf War states:,

Depleted uranium is a crime against God and humanity.”

Rokke’s own crew, a hundred employees, was devastated by exposure to the fine dust. He stated:

When we went to the Gulf, we were all really healthy,”

After performing clean-up operations in the desert (mistakenly without protective gear), 30 members of his staff died, and most others (including Rokke himself) developed serious health problems. Rokke now has reactive airway disease, neurological damage, cataracts, and kidney problems.

We warned the Department of Defense in 1991 after the Gulf War. Their arrogance is beyond comprehension.

Yet the D.O.D still insists such ingestion is “not sufficient to make troops seriously ill in most cases
.”

Then why did it make the clean up crew seriously or terminally ill in nearly all cases?

Marion Falk, a retired chemical physicist who built nuclear bombs for more than 20 years at Lawrence Livermore Lab, was asked if he thought that DU weapons operate in a similar manner as a dirty bomb.

That’s exactly what they are. They fit the description of a dirty bomb in every way.”

According to Falk, more than 30 percent of the DU fired from the cannons of U.S. tanks is reduced to particles one-tenth of a micron (one millionth of a meter) in size or smaller on impact. “The larger the bang” the greater the amount of DU that is dispersed into the atmosphere, Falk said. With the larger missiles and bombs, nearly 100 percent of the DU is reduced to radioactive dust particles of the “micron size” or smaller, he said.

When asked if the main purpose for using it was for destroying things and killing people, Falk was more specific:

I would say that it is the perfect weapon for killing lots of people.”

When a DU round or bomb strikes a hard target, most of its kinetic energy is converted to heat ” sufficient heat to ignite the DU. From 40% to 70% of the DU is converted to extremely fine dust particles of ceramic uranium oxide (primarily dioxide, though other formulations also occur). Over 60% of these particles are smaller than 5 microns in diameter, about the same size as the cigarette ash particles in cigarette smoke and therefore respirable.

Because conditions are so chaotic in Iraq, the medical infrastructure has been greatly compromised. In terms of both cancer and birth defects due to DU, only a small fraction of the cases are being reported.


I don't believe for one minute that you are unaware of all that. Anyone who says they are not aware of it ... is feigning innocence.

If you think it's going to cost us a lot of money to help our veterans deal with all that disease, wait until we get the bill for taking care of the Iraqis.

Were still paying dearly for all the chemical damage we did to our vets in Vietnam ... not to mention how many Vietnamese we take care of for the same reason.

I have them as patients ... so don't try to tell me I'm imagining it all. The agency I work for is run by Laotians ... here because of our illegal use of their nation during the Vietnam War as well as for all the physical damage we did to them as well.

We seem to make a habit of going around making a lot of people sick with our war mongering ... including our own military personnel.
 Coma_White
Joined: 9/15/2013
Msg: 33
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History
The Russians are coming ....again????
Posted: 4/29/2014 6:08:49 PM

The US stands by and let's Israel steal neighboring land all the time and does nothing to stop it.

They need to be consistent. If they don't want other countries to do it, then they need to be just as consequential with Israel as they are with other countries. They fund Israel to the tune of billions and stand by and let them kill Palestinians and steal their land.

You baited that answer out of me and I'm aware of it. There's nothing innocent about you even though you put on a good act.


It's not an "act". I have to ask because your answers are confusing. Palestinians steal just as much land from Christians as Israel steals land from Palestine. Why did every country surrounding Israel attack it if they wanted a two state solution? Also, the land is considered disputed because it's based on cease fire lines instead of borders. Those lines are a result of aggression from Palestine.


I don't know about your personal life and don't care about it. If you have a girlfriend or not is of no interest to me. Some women do find your act of innocence "cute", so keep it up and maybe you will actually score!


I've never heard such nonsense. There is no "act of innocence". Who would find an act "cute"? Why would I need to act so I can "score" if I'm already in a relationship? I hope you're not drinking while you're writing these things. They don't even make sense.


If you're so concerned about genocide, then it should be on equal terms.

The Zionists are doing the same with the Palestinians and I don't hear your concern about that. So "selective" genocide is okay with you ... right? Just don't pick on the Xtians, but it's okay to kill the Palestinians? They aren't worth it to you?


There is no "genocide" against the Palestinians. Palestine keeps refusing a two state solution and when Fatah makes closer ties with Hamas, of course peace talks are going to fall through. You mention nothing about the terrorist attacks and wars committed against Israel.


Well if you have ever been to the military since 911 then you would know how they indoctrinate the folks in boot camp against the Muslims. Some of our own troops have complained about it ... as they themselves are Muslim and don't particularly appreciate it!

If you're so in favor of war, why don't you go sign up?


I live in Canada and I already have a job. Why would I know about American boot camps if I live in Canada? Are you in the military? The United States was a huge supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood, the group that tried to create a theocratic state in Egypt and got kicked out. How can you say the military is against Muslims when America openly supports radical Islamic groups?


Good ... then how about you go volunteer to live with the debris of the DU bombs. See how you like it.

While you're at it ... why not ask our precious military personnel who have physical damage (cancer and other severe ailments) from working in the debris and while you're at it ... why not just adopt a deformed Iraqi baby ... which is a result of our use of the DU bombs? Are you up to that? No? Yeah, I didn't think so.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/depleted-uranium-far-worse-than-9-11/2374


I'm not up to adopting anyone. It has nothing to do with the debate. You're just resorting to "Why don't you do this, why don't you do that" because you have nothing to say. You could care less aboout the crimes committed by Hussein, but you cry about the ones America is guilty of.


I don't believe for one minute that you are unaware of all that. Anyone who says they are not aware of it ... is feigning innocence.

If you think it's going to cost us a lot of money to help our veterans deal with all that disease, wait until we get the bill for taking care of the Iraqis.

Were still paying dearly for all the chemical damage we did to our vets in Vietnam ... not to mention how many Vietnamese we take care of for the same reason.

I have them as patients ... so don't try to tell me I'm imagining it all. The agency I work for is run by Laotians ... here because of our illegal use of their nation during the Vietnam War as well as for all the physical damage we did to them as well.

We seem to make a habit of going around making a lot of people sick with our war mongering ... including our own military personnel.


I don't decide what weapons the American military uses. I'm not even American and I'm not in the military. I can only go by the facts and international law. Even if something is harmful, if it's legal, it's legal.
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