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 jesseld
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 39
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?Page 3 of 5    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5)

BULLSH*T. Why are you men even ON HERE if you are afraid or hate women. Just stay home and watch TV. Stop blaming WOMEN for YOUR social ineptness.


Where did I say I hate women? I like women very much thank you.

Social ineptness? I asked a girl to lunch and got slapped with sexual harassment, the same girl who would tell me her favorite sexual positions when I would be calling to order a pager. How the hell is someone to know that a lunch request is over the line but knowing that she likes being pinned while taking it in the ass was perfectly acceptable?


For the record, I have been in the work force since 1983.


Big whoop, you got a whole 5 years on me


NEVER has a male co-worker been accused of sexual harrassment--and I'm at a feminist-friendly university.
NOT ONE of my male friends has raped a woman. NOT ONE of my male friends has been accused of stalking or had the cops called on him because he was creeping a woman out. IF YOU AND YOUR FRIENDS ARE ACCUSED OF THIS CRAP--LOOK TO YOURSELF. You are doing something VERY VERY wrong.


Because they tell you everything I'm sure....

A lot of people aren't going to talk about it because of the stigma that goes with it, hell only one of my friends even know about my 2 incidents.

Point is, while I can't speak for every guy and whats happened to him, I think it is safe to say that every guy has heard of it or knows someone who's experienced it.

That makes us cautious because while there are some good women out there you never know when your gonna hit the psycho lottery.
 GeekedNow
Joined: 7/27/2009
Msg: 40
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/9/2009 7:54:54 PM
turns out more and more evidence is coming into the science world that strongly suggests that any and all sexual activities, perferences, approaches etc are the same between men and women other than what is socialized.

what this means in this context (and how I see it personally) is that both the man AND the woman are responisble for expressing themselves.

Speaking personally I have no intrest or respect for women who go out of their way to not express themselves honestly.

Also, what the science is basically saying here is that women who want the men to take the whole bold control are very franckly....lazy.
 jesseld
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 42
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/9/2009 8:56:08 PM

EDIT:
Jesseld......although I do, to a point, "feel your pain".....and yes I am very familiar with the beeyotch women who love to play "come here come here, get away, get away" (we call them "attention who*res")..if I were you, I'd NEVER EVER show any interest in, or ask out, ANYONE from work. You just do not defecate in your own sandbox.....

As for the chick with the text? If the conversation went like this: "Hey, babe, want to go out tonight?"..."No, sorry, I'm going to the Blank Bar with friends".....and you showed up? That was a little pushy. Not so sure I'd have gone the stupid threat route, but some chicks are pyscho. If that was not the conversation? Then she's an idiot. Only YOU know the truth.........


In that instance, there was no conversation, I freely admit I made a bad assumption.

We had dated for a few weeks, had slept together and were getting familiar with one another. We hadn't spoken to each other in a day or so. Out of the blue she texted me saying "I'm going to the Upper Deck". I made the classic mistake of assuming because in my mind all I thought was "Why is she telling me this unless she is asking me if I want to join her". I agree that I should have did some follow up but hind sight is 20/20. It was a live and learn experience.

As for the one from 2001, we didn't work for the same company, she was just an operator at a local vendor. My belief is that since the company she worked for owed my respective company about 15 grand, her boss got wind of the lunch request and pressured her into doing it as a bargaining chip to get out of paying us. That is my opinion of course.
 jesseld
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 43
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/9/2009 9:02:42 PM


Not all women are like that, let alone or act in such a manner...and not all men are creeps. Just as NO means NO etc etc etc, but for some reason some people just can not understand this common everyday human concept.


I agree not all women are like that but it does influence the way men approach you. When you've been burned your not so quick to put your hand as close to the fire.

It's to easy in this day and age to have your life ruined. If the sexual harassment thing had went through it would have been on my records for at least 7 years, possibly more which would effect my ability to get a job with another company.

If the stalking thing had went through, I'd be classified as a sex offender (I think) which would effect me in ways legally that I don't even want to consider.
 GeekedNow
Joined: 7/27/2009
Msg: 44
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/9/2009 9:22:02 PM
Everyone and I mean everyone is directly and personally responisible for communicating what they want and how they feel, PEROID. i dont care who wrote book on dating.

In fact, that and being honest is really the only two rules of dating that i have any respect for whatsoever.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 45
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Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/9/2009 9:38:23 PM

Not all women are like that, let alone or act in such a manner...and not all men are creeps. Just as NO means NO etc etc etc, but for some reason some people just can not understand this common everyday human concept.

Not all patients file frivolous malpractice suits against their doctors, but doctors now have to perform all sorts of unnecessary tests on their patients because they don't want to end up having to justify themselves in court.
 sammylg
Joined: 12/20/2006
Msg: 52
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/10/2009 11:14:41 AM
I think, by saying Bold, you mean self-confidence without the arrogance, I know women want that in a man.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 56
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Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/10/2009 7:01:36 PM

Oh I fully understand that one myself, as I'm a Nurse and also a recent Advanced Breast Cancer survivor.... That isn't the topic of this thread though.....

It is, however, relevant. Just as doctors are forced to do unnecessary and expensive tests on the 99.9% of patients who won't file frivolous lawsuits for the sake of the 0.1% who will, many men are now feeling very reluctant to express interest in the 99.9% of women who aren't going to file frivolous sexual harassment suits because of the actions of the 0.1% who will.
 tbuddha
Joined: 2/28/2005
Msg: 58
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/10/2009 7:53:54 PM
I can totally see why some guys on here would be scared of being bold. I've dated a lot of women and because society has given them the tools to abuse the system, they are more than willing to do so. I've been lucky, but a lot of that is due to the fact that I'm above average looking and when I've taken a chance it generally pans out.

But it can happen to anyone, look at Kobe. The girl turns out to be a total slut that was bragging to her friends about doing him and had like 3 different guy's sperm in her panties. The reason she cried rape? She didn't want to admit she was a slut to the guy she was supposedly dating, so she told him that she was raped. After all, she felt bad about it, so it must have been the guy's fault.

These concerns aren't about woman hating. Christina Hoff Sommers wrote a great book "Boys Under Attack" about how schools indoctrinate children now as if masculinity is a disorder that needs to be cured. Another great read is Roger Devlin's "Sexual Utopia in Power" which you can read online.
 rheard
Joined: 9/8/2008
Msg: 61
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/11/2009 3:53:13 AM

Sigmund Freud wrote: "If men knew how women really think, they'd be ten times bolder". Modern dating gurus often tell men to stop being wussy and act more like traditional men. This means, for instance, complimenting women sparsely and taking control of dates, sex and relationships. It means eschewing "dinner and movie" type dates for less expensive, more offbeat and potentially sexier dates.


OP: Since you are paraphrasing something we can all read on the logout page for POF it sounds like you are really asking if DeAngelos "Double Your Dating" tactics actually work

Simple answer is they do and they don't! The women who can be manipulated (and that's what it is) by those techniques generally aren't worth being with for more than a night or two! Not to mention that if you base your whole approach to meeting women around techniques with an end goal of sex - you are gonna be lost when you try to hang on to the one you finally meet who you want to have more with!

Like many of the ladies have said, boldness, confidence and a strong sense of self assurance will get you further with them than any amount of insecure, emo, actions will! Unfortunately - you don't develop it overnight. When you try to fake it - they can tell. Sort your own life out. Become happy and strong in your own skin, and then try to meet the lady you want to spend your life with. The bold confidence will come with experience and it will show through without you ever having to think about it or having to lay plans or play games to demonstrate it!

Those who list current law as an obstacle to leading a bold, confident life style? Grow up!

Stalking cases are built on a PATTERN of offenses not a single incident or misunderstanding! Has someone been watching too many movies?

Most workplace harrassment suits involve one of two things. Either the lady was actually being harrassed (possibly unintentionally) ie. honestly felt intimidated or that her job was in danger if she didn't submit to the situation. Or they are brought to court by pathetic losers who know they can make a few bucks because most companies get out of it cheaper by settling rather than defending the suit.

Simple answer for either of these is to just stop being afraid! Don't crap where ya work and meet your women elsewhere is a good solution for the one! Don't let yourself engage in any behaviors that are stalking under current law and you'll never have to worry about the other. Above all find out how the law actually works before letting it rule your life!

Cheers all
 jesseld
Joined: 12/24/2007
Msg: 62
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/11/2009 4:07:40 AM

Stalking cases are built on a PATTERN of offenses not a single incident or misunderstanding! Has someone been watching too many movies?

Most workplace harrassment suits involve one of two things. Either the lady was actually being harrassed (possibly unintentionally) ie. honestly felt intimidated or that her job was in danger if she didn't submit to the situation. Or they are brought to court by pathetic losers who know they can make a few bucks because most companies get out of it cheaper by settling rather than defending the suit.

Simple answer for either of these is to just stop being afraid! Don't crap where ya work and meet your women elsewhere is a good solution for the one! Don't let yourself engage in any behaviors that are stalking under current law and you'll never have to worry about the other. Above all find out how the law actually works before letting it rule your life!


No this from experience? Didn't know civil law was part of the patent clerks education.

I have reviewed the laws in my (former) State and I know what does and does not.
 rheard
Joined: 9/8/2008
Msg: 63
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/11/2009 5:33:24 AM

No this from experience? Didn't know civil law was part of the patent clerks education.


Actually I couldn't tell you if it is part of a patent clerks education! But considering Einstein was once a patent clerk I wouldn't be too surprised to find it could be :) I have not always been nor will I always be a patent draftsman either. Draftsman, not clerk - there is a difference there too - one that might make me appear even more ignorant since we're making assumptioms about my education!

Most of my knowledge does come from experience - just not the kind you insinuate! Extensive management experience to be exact. In manufacturing, technology, and sales to be even more specific. Might I possibly know something about the issues now? I could go on to iterate how I came by my information on stalking without having to have stalked anyone also but that isn't truly the point!

I don't claim to be a lawyer or to be giving legal advice. My information is good for at least four states and from what I understand differs only in details in most others. But this isn't about points of law! Or even about statistics and horror stories. It's about not blaming perceived issues with meeting women on unjustified fear of punishment under those laws.

Cheers
 roseyn
Joined: 5/25/2009
Msg: 64
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/11/2009 11:43:48 AM
definitely so!!
 GeekedNow
Joined: 7/27/2009
Msg: 66
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/12/2009 8:54:54 AM
I would like to make another comment regarding "bold" (this applies to both men and women by the way).

being bold in email and messages on dating sites is for sh*t and doesn’t represent real flirting skills or even sexual self condifience in my mind, not to mention it’s not as much fun.

In real life you can send a strong seductive message to someone you are talking with while using “simlish” (words that have no meaning, thus talking about sex is not even required).
 ForRumOnly
Joined: 3/16/2009
Msg: 69
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Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/12/2009 12:43:36 PM
I think some men are a little confused in recent decades, as gender roles have become less well defined, political correctness has become standard, and sexual harassment can be a minefield for some.

However, I think "gentlemanly" behavior is almost always appropriate even if not seen as bold, however you care to define it, and I don't think most people have problems being bold during sex and in established relationships.

At the very least I can be bolder in the forums!
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 71
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Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/12/2009 12:47:38 PM
It's plausible that men are already too bold, or at least women are quite successfully selecting for such men.

How else does one explain all the threads by women along the lines of him "wanting to go too fast", her just wanting to "take things slow", and "whatever happened to getting to know one another?"? It sounds like plenty of guys are already practically burning the gals' brakes out.

It's kinda like they want men to be bold until that's not what they want any more, leading the guy to develop seriously stripped gears and then not being able to go anywhere. I suppose women are oblivious to this since they drive automatics.
 karma1160
Joined: 6/10/2008
Msg: 73
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/12/2009 3:46:21 PM
Yes this kind of conversation happens more than you know where one person wants the other to pick but they are not satisfied with any of the picking.
I am pretty traditional coffee first as I am not going to drink on a first date either 99% of the time and if I do it will be one wine cooler.
 cw35
Joined: 4/8/2005
Msg: 74
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Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/12/2009 4:33:16 PM
I don't think it has to be a guessing game when it comes to approaching women in a lot of cases. A lot of women give pretty obvious signals. I notice women staring sometimes, smiling sometimes and they even wink sometimes. They will usually never approach first though. I'm assuming when this happens, it's probably safe to be a little bold. Unfortunately, they usually have to hit me in the head with a brick to get me to say anything. lol. I hate being the proud shy type.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 77
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Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/14/2009 6:03:31 AM

Nah... they still want guys to be bold... but only guys they like.

That was what I was driving at but forgot to actually say, Zekestone. -Hope you appreciate my serving you up an easy softball so you could hit it out of the park.


I notice women staring sometimes, smiling sometimes

Funny you should say that, CW... I've had the same effect for years on little kids. I can't go to the grocery store anymore because everytime I turn around there's another one locked on me. Maybe they're just really bored being stuck there in the cart's kiddie seat, but it creeps me out nonetheless, and I haven't a clue how or what to change in order to elicit the same fascination from a much older segment of the population.
 thecheekychick
Joined: 10/18/2008
Msg: 80
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 8/17/2009 11:16:24 PM
Yes the bolder then better
 Peppigonzalis
Joined: 5/15/2011
Msg: 85
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 7/15/2011 2:28:52 PM
When looking for advice on relationships, Freud is the last person you should quote!

He viewed females in an extremely different manner than today's society; In fact Freud deemed any woman who enjoys sex as a Nymphomaniac!
Not to mention the intelligence inequalities that were firm to his belief (this was in the days when women were not educated, however not justifiable for a medical and social scientist)

Any way; it is my belief that women are attracted to confident men, but not controlling men.
Definitely be assertive, even take lead; but don't entitle yourself to be the controller of dates, sex and relationships.
 valenciacityx
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 86
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 7/15/2011 6:43:52 PM
The know thy enemy statement is more true than most are willing to admit.
This damn place is down right adversarial at times, hell I get better conversations from women when I was in Peshawar and under the gun. Funny how actually being shot at, and the potential of being blown up; takes the phoney veneer off of people.
If you cant get past the hello, it doesnt matter how f'n bold you are .
Its a dance, and if I have a large noodled catfish that is just interested in biting off an arm - well it is not a dance I am doing.
 BethelMan
Joined: 4/23/2011
Msg: 87
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 7/15/2011 6:54:18 PM
Bolder in dating is really relative to who you are with. Some dates have not proceeded well when you are just testing the waters. It's like there is no real direction and there is nothing wrong with that. Kind of like a sporting event, you have your plan of what you are looking for, but the first half you are seeing what the other team is doing. It's our strongest character as humans, being adaptable to whatever the situation merits.

The puzzle is that when there is that excitement of a connection, that is where the bold comes into play. We can sit and analyse should we or or should we not move forward in whatever direction the relationship is moving. In a few relationships the whole passion of the date was fabulous. This went from a conversation that was just fun into phone sex. The tension afterwards was awkward at best. A date that was great, walking, wine tasting to necking in the parking lot, stopped with no response the next day. Another the was going well for both of us for weeks, as was stated by both, it ended after a great evening of dancing and then meeting the parents. The next day no response postures. It takes two to tangle and we need to relax the analysis and embarrasment of what we were inspired to do, together.

We are looking for passion in our lives and our mates, but the morals imbedded in our subconscious hold us back from accepting it when it happens. Enjoy your emotions and passions, sit down face to face and discuss what has happened. Find out between both of you how you would like to proceed if a moral line was breached.

Shutting someone out, not responding is just the state of that persons level of awareness. They are running away and no matter how far you run the earth is round, you will come back to the same place. Running may get you away from where you are but you are still no where except away from what you are running from. Deal with the matter at hand, know the direction you want to go and move forward. You will get there.
 --Zen--
Joined: 6/29/2011
Msg: 88
Should men be bolder in dating, sex and relationships?
Posted: 12/26/2011 4:31:06 AM
I'm not a fan of Freud or 'dating gurus' but current trend of 'pore me' male creatures needs to stop. Men should be Men regardless of dating or relationships. Chasing skirts like 'modern dating gurus' suggest is only temporary self esteem fix. Ones you're done jumping from bed to bed you end up right where you've started. Men need to start realizing their own strengths and not rely for ego boosts from others. Take control of your self, you are not a beast to be controlled by your hormones. If you don't someone will control you by exploiting your weakness. Say what you mean and mean what you say. Don't let society tell you who you should be. Ones you stand tall, realize who you are and what you want out of life all that depression crap, social problems and relationship trouble will disappear like a bad cold. Your self respect, decisions and emotions belong to you and you alone.
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