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Joined: 1/23/2008
Msg: 49
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get ItPage 4 of 7    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7)
equals a tiny bit over 32 minutes of time responding to 55 e-mails with polite refusals.

Silentman, imagine if I just responded to your post with "Thanks for writing, but no."

And that's it.

Wouldn't that be more annoying than if I just didn't respond? Because truly, a real response requires acknowledgement of what was said and conversation regarding the points made, if the response is to be respectful of the time you put into your post.

In reality, it does take longer than 32 minutes to respond to all emails, because you want to take the time to peruse someone's profile before writing them off - even if it's to find a tasteful excuse such as "Thanks, but the distance is too much." But even assuming that number is accurate, it is my opinion that the 32 minutes is better spent focusing on the person you DO have a connection with. Not to mention, if all the people we write back to write back again - are we supposed to spend even more time responding to that? I'd balloon up to 100 messages a day myself. Really, I've been there before, when I try to respond to more people.

Honestly, I would sooner quit the site. I'm big on common courtesy, but it's just too much, it really is. It makes using this site, which should be light and fun, feel like a chore. If you have a job where you get a lot of emails because people know you're a good worker, but soon you're getting too many to respond to, don't you ultimately push them to the side if they don't need a response so you can still get your job done?

Besides, typing speeds = nothing. I know you know that and you're trying to show how common courtesy doesn't cost much time, but there's a difference between just typing words, and typing words tactfully. It's not common courtesy to write back a "Thanks but no thanks" and ignore the content of the message sent to you. I personally think that's tacky and would be insulted if someone responded to me in that matter. The bottom line is, it legitimately feels like I come home from one job to work another when I have to dutifully write polite thank you notes to everyone who contacts me.

If it weren't for the fact that I use my account still (obviously, lol) I'd let you have at it and see how long you could really stick with responding to everyone. I agree, it's nice in theory - but in reality it kicks your ass. Dating is supposed to be fun.. when it starts feeling like a chore, it's time to quit. If I had an unspoken obligation to respond to everybody, I'd have quit long ago and not met some of the awesome guys I have from here.

If I got less emails? Sure, I'd try to get to know the people who contacted me a little better.
Joined: 5/14/2008
Msg: 50
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/9/2009 3:19:54 PM

You're missing the point, though, which is that the experiences of me and countless other men on this site proves that your statement in post #8 is simply not correct, as are the assumptions that you are making regarding the type of women to whom us unsuccessful guys are writing.

Seriously, I congratulate you on being able to find someone through this site, and I genuinely wish you well, but your assertion that more women than not will respond to well-thought-out e-mails is just plain naive. The reality is what I and hundreds of other men on this site have experienced -- the majority of guys who take time to craft a decent profile and write articulate initial e-mails still don't get responses.

And some women wonder why men use cut-and-paste messages for their initial e-mails. Just as the OP caught a glimpse of what it is like to be a woman on this site receiving a multitude of vapid e-mails, I think women of this site would find it enlightening to see what it is like to be a man on this site. See how many dozens of "Read/Deleted" carefully crafted messages you can send before you write the whole thing off as a pointless venture.

I get the point. We all get the point. What do you want us to do about it? The majority of women to whom you write are probably NOT reading the forums. They are seeing all you guys complaining. They just DON'T care, obviously. There is nothing any of us who do answer emails can do to change the fact that their are other men and women who don't. B*tchy, whining, complaining or just stating that fact is NOT going to change things. If I could wave a wand and all the rude, self-centered people on this site would start being more considerate, I would do so, but I can't.

At least once a day (and usually multiple times) this same problem is addressed. It doesn't matter who starts the thread, the answer is the same. Some people are rude and are not considerate enough to respond. Some people just look at photos and if they aren't interested, they don't even read the email. Does that suck? Yes. Can you or anyone else on this site change it? No. So forget about the things over which you have no control and concentrate on the things you do. Meet women in person where they can see your personality in person.

Thank you for your good wishes, and I do believe you truly mean them. I wish you the same good luck I've had.
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 52
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/9/2009 5:17:00 PM

I get the point. We all get the point. What do you want us to do about it?

The fact that you asked that question means you missed the point.

The point is simply this:

You claimed in post #8 of this thread that all a guy has to do is read the woman's profile, write a well-thought-out initial e-mail, and have a decent profile and he will get a large percentage of responses. The point is that your statement is incorrect.

I'm not suggesting that anybody should *do* anything about it. I'm simply pointing out a fact. Do I think anybody should do something about it? Of course not. The only person on this planet I can change is myself, and I have changed by coming to the realization that online dating -- at least on sites like this -- is not worth my time. It's rare that I bother to send out initial e-mails any more, and the only reason I bother to keep this account is because of the forum.
Joined: 1/23/2008
Msg: 55
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/10/2009 10:01:03 AM

We have verrrry different outlooks on this. I treat others the way I want to be treated. That same example I gave you:

Silentman, imagine if I just responded to your post with "Thanks for writing, but no."

And that's it.

Wouldn't that be more annoying than if I just didn't respond?

I would HATE getting a response like that. After I write someone, I pretty much forget about it. I never look in my sent folder. So if they don't write, it's off my mind - if they DO, only to ignore what I wrote, it annoys me! Further, I get enough mail in my inbox that it wastes my time to read a response from someone who isn't even interested in talking to me, but is only doing so to be polite. So, I don't do it to other people.

So this:

The lack of response is communicating to someone, whether you may realize it or not, this: "You aren't worth the time of my consideration."

Is just not true. It's in the eye of the beholder.

The same goes for blocking. I find blocking INCREDIBLY rude when someone is only trying to hold a conversation with you. I save the block feature for genuine nuisances or people who legitimately freak me out, or repeatedly don't listen. I never preemptively block. Maybe, in the future, that person could be the right person for me and they just aren't right now. That does happen.

There is never a situation where the truth isn't beneficial.

Here, I blatantly disagree with you. You both over and underestimate people in the same post. I guess you've never been in a situation where saying the truth has gotten you the brunt of someone's wrath. I have.. and no thank you, learned from that mistake. I've been in the situation in person too - someone hits on you, you don't want it, and they get irrationally angry and now I have to find a way to diffuse a dangerous situation. Everything in moderation - including knowing when to keep your mouth shut.

Anyway, that's the beauty of these sites. If you look at the bigger picture it makes sense. If someone not responding offends you, then you know you weren't a good match anyway because you don't share the same communication principles. At the end of the day, I owe strangers nothing, including more of my time than it took reading the email. If I do talk to them, it is because I want to, not because I have to. At least no one who talks to me will have to wonder if I'm just speaking to them to be polite - they'll know I'm speaking out of genuine interest.

Everything has its value.
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 56
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/10/2009 10:40:52 AM
Of course women, if they're even close to reasonably pretty, are going to get FAR more emails sent their way than any standard decent looking guy -- it's the ratio thing of a free site.

"You're hot, wanna chat?" is not the most wise move, BUT, with that said...

A very short email, statistically speaking, isn't a bad thing at all. We're all here on the forums, into reading & writing about a variety of things... a very SMALL % of people use the forums, so you can't use responses on this thread as a baseline.

One will scare more women away by writing a very lengthy email, than the women demanding a 1 page paper single-spaced prove-yourself-to-me email. How much you write depends on their profile, tho -- you can many times at least find out, by seeing their profile, if it'd be best to write a lot. But if all she has is the standard "I love to laugh, camp, travel, and hang out with friends! Family is very important to me! I'm looking for a kindhearted man!", and the guy's profile shows a lot about him, then an email the size of a lengthy IM or text would be enough.

Now, if someone writes a very small, two sentence email, and their profile is barebones as well, that's not a good thing!

I say that if your profile is filled in well, and you send a 2-sentence email to a lady (not an idiotic one tho; maybe a question referring to them or their profile), that's not a bad thing... and can test to see if she's really attracted to you. Their annoyances about a short email disappear if they look at your profile and see someone good looking with a lot describing themselves
Joined: 12/13/2006
Msg: 58
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/10/2009 12:02:24 PM
Writing a novel is a huge waste of time.

Possibly ~~ but the last two successful emails from fellas to me (successful in the sense that they got a response from me, resulting in some correspondence and a meeting) were two paragraphs. Well thought out, with a good bit of reference to who I was as revealed by my profile, and a bit of information about them that wasn't in their profiles.

Never had a bit of luck responding to one liners. The brains that produce one liners are simply brains that see the world in one liners. . . . I.e., brains that are never going to be of interest to me. Nor, I suspect many women.

Jus' me. . . .
(BTW, one of those guys is simply a friend now; the other? well. . . . )

Joined: 1/23/2008
Msg: 61
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/10/2009 2:01:24 PM
Silentman: thanks for writing, but no.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 62
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/10/2009 2:55:53 PM
Only 36 emails? That sucks. I've known ladies that got four times that in that amount of time.

And the emails still sucked.
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 63
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/10/2009 2:59:21 PM

I'm still going to champion the notion of responding to every appropriate bit of e-mail one receives, as I think it's only polite.

Yeah right. For the ladies, you don't like the email, the profile, the pictures, whatever. Delete. Don't bother to email and say why you don't like him. It's a waste of your time and you will have to go through three emails before the guy gets the point.
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 66
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/10/2009 7:16:48 PM

Or you're wrong about your e-mails and profile.

I've had both my e-mails and profile reviewed by dozens of people, both men and women, on this site and elsewhere and pretty much everyone universally agreed that they are just fine. A few people along the line have offered advice for minor tweaks but overall they have all said that there is nothing glaringly wrong with them.

I have also tried drastically changing my profile and approach to writing initial e-mails to see if mixing things up would work, too. That didn't work, either.

I have corresponded with many other women here; naturally, this is a frequent topic (the question being, especially when new to the whole thing, Do I owe everyone a reply?), and consensus is and has consistently been the same as ForumFilly's observation here. Usually even the severely overwhelmed will respond to something that's well-thought-out and arises from an appealing profile, though it may be just to say something like, "Sorry, no, but thank you for writing."

Well, I don't know which women you've been conversing with but my experiences are still what they are. I haven't actually gone so far as to make an Excel spreadsheet to document it all but over the years, my response rate is still far below 5%.

Unfortunately for many who are making a real effort, putting thought into something is no guarantee of its turning out looking as if real thought went into it.

Agreed, and that is why, over the months and years of being on dating sites, I have actively solicited a lot of feedback from people regarding how I write my profiles and have sent examples of e-mails I have sent out to friends so they can critique. There is no substitute for honest external feedback.
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 68
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/10/2009 7:49:40 PM

Your belly suspiciously does not belong on a long distance runner.

You should have seen it a year ago when I had 40 more pounds of belly...

At any rate, thank you for the feedback. Admittedly I haven't spent a lot of time on this iteration of my profile because, to be honest, I'm not seriously looking at the moment as I'm still getting over my ex, who broke up with me two days after taking the pictures you see in my profile.

Perhaps I'll change my profile again at some point, but as I mentioned I've pretty much given up on contacting anyone through internet dating sites. I lead a pretty busy and full life, so my best bet is to find someone while I'm out there doing what I do.
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 70
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/13/2009 1:09:18 PM
Makes sense, and wouldn't be a bad idea or anything, as I'm sure a lot of people do that. However, one thought is that you'd be repeating your profile. Your profile describes yourself in general, so you'd be repeating that.

I think a lot of people use the initial emails much like IMing. You're saying "what's up", and they obviously check out your profile, so if you did fill it out, they know who they're talking to. With that said, I think a couple sentences at most is enough, in reference to their profile specifically, and that's all. I know Forum people cringe at just a couple sentences, and if one's bright enough, when they write to someone with a lengthy profile, they'll know they won't mind a mini-blog written.
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 71
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/13/2009 6:25:09 PM

To possibly get myself in trouble here. I have a suggestion LOL!!

Rather than a lame one liner, which I never reply to. Why not set up an initial paragraph or so detailing what you want to about yourself. Save it to wordpad. Make sure you write it with positive energy, and use that as your intros? Just copy and paste it. It is not like you are bein insincere in your words as you did take the time to craft the paragraph. This way you get to send something more substantial, and it is no skin off of your nose if she/he chooses to not reply :)

There have been many threads here regarding copy/paste e-mails, too. The majority of women on them have flatly said they will not reply to such e-mails.

There is a happy medium, though -- the template. I've used that before when I used to send out a lot of initial e-mails. I'd save in Notepad about two or three different template e-mails, then when I would fill in the blanks with things that show I actually did read the woman's profile.
Joined: 3/13/2005
Msg: 73
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/13/2009 7:10:34 PM
I do the same thing by always looking at the profile BEFORE opening the email sent to me........

It gives me a base to start with, some information that will peak my interest or not, and hopefully some great pictures to tingle my brain with that attraction hormone.....

Once there, I open that email and read what is said, why, and how it all was put together, and for what purposes, and then I always will respond at least once with either a favorable, let's try, or a thank you and good luck with your fishing in this pond.

We all know the pigeon hole that we men are put in, that all we care about will be the pictures, and how they look, but many many of us, are far beyond that, and actually want brain power to match body and looks power. I will make the assumption, good or bad, that the type of women I am interested in, will do the same for me.

Just my opinion.........
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 83
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/20/2009 10:14:36 AM

Remember, most want in our pants.

I would hope so, that would mean she's an attractive woman. You say it like it's a bad thing. If a woman doesn't have any desire to be in a guy's pants, she's not attracted to him. Wanting in someone's pants = having a desire to be physically sexual with them = sexual attraction = attraction.

Here's my take: Women have just as much physical sexual desire as men. But most women have "stop signs" before they'd dive into that pool, some just have "yield" signs (single for too long or sexually frustrated), and a few have no traffic sign heeding them at all ('divorce is final!' or desperate or 'screw self image for once!'). Usually the yield sign or no sign at all is a temporary phase, but I digress...

Many guys don't have a sign at all, some have a "yield" sign, and very few have a stop sign. This is what it all comes down to. Why? Almost all are pigs? No (yes, some are of course). It's because society's natural "flow" that everyone is expected to go with, is the cause. It's guy-approaches-girl. We are to approach the women, and they have the veto card. They have far better chances to 'find someone' than guys do, all things being equal.

- It'd be too boring & easy to just accept every decent looking person for sex when you're the one who is approached and gawked at all the time.

- Self-image goes down in society when you sleep around or seem like you're sleeping around. Women care more about self-image in social dimensions, than guys do -- hence, more hesitation.

- It's a much tougher road to hoe (no pun intended), for a guy being the approacher. No matter who you are, if you approach solidly attractive women, you will get shot down many times. She holds the "yay" or "nay" veto card, right? He is to rely on HER stop (or yield) sign anyway -- even if he has no sign at all for himself. Hence, the lack of stop or yield signs for guys.
Joined: 5/25/2008
Msg: 85
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/20/2009 12:38:40 PM
I don't know how women expect us to personalize our messages when the information they provide in their profiles is sparse to begin with.
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 86
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/20/2009 1:01:34 PM
I think people respond in different ways to different messages.
I've received one liners before and I've responded.
I've received paragraphs and I haven't.
Not sure why people assume the fish pond is an easier place to
meet people than real life. The problem with the pond is it gives
you way too many options...which of course gives the people you're
looking for too many options as well.
I know people have written that they've been successful here...but
lets be serious...if fishes really does have the members that it says
it does...the actually percentage of success is pretty low.
I think it comes down to nothing but pure luck that you might meet
someone on here that actually wants to meet you as well.
But that's just my opinion.
I'm not complaining.
And to the person who suggested women are too lazy to look at profiles
when reading a message...I would suggest that women DO look at profiles
(for the most part BEFORE) reading messages...and that could be
the reason why there are so many people complaining about read/delete
deleted without reading etc. (or it could be forum history)
I'm guessing men do this as well...but I have no way of knowing of course.
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 91
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 8/21/2009 11:27:09 AM

Maybe the reason is that you're non religious, you have to remember most people are religious. It maybe a factor why you don't get many responses.

It's not really a matter of the whys and wherefores, really. My point is still the same -- putting a lot of effort into writing coherent, interesting profiles and initial e-mails does not translate to a high response rate, as many of the women on here have been claiming it does.

You have better success rate in the real world on here.

I don't dispute that. I don't even bother sending out initial e-mails anymore.

Complaining is useless because it does change anything, you can only change yourself not others.

I'm not complaining, really. I'm merely stating the facts. I'm not naive enough to think I can change others.
Joined: 5/26/2005
Msg: 95
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 1/28/2010 10:42:22 PM
well I really thinks its a numbers game.I will come up with a few good openers, And try it on a few . then try something else.Theres a thing on here that tells you how many people you have contacted. Its depressing to look at.all those emails and no replys .Only thing to do is keep sending emails.maybe they will glance at your profile before they delete your
Joined: 1/6/2010
Msg: 96
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 1/29/2010 4:20:28 AM
I have racey photos now because I do not care. I am not meeting anymore liars from here. However I will say I could have a Burka on, and people still e mail horrible shit. What is worse is all the lies. Breeding ground for disaster it is.
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 109
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 1/31/2010 3:30:27 PM

Now I'm just waiting for the thread entitled "Gentlemen, I get it, I finally get it" posted by a woman who has monitored a guy's inbox.

For a woman to "get it" in the sense of this thread, monitoring his inbox wouldn't do. She'd have to send out 200 individually written e-mails to a wide array of women in the area and have only four reply, of which three say "thanks but no thanks" and the other wants to be a pen pal for four months before giving out her phone number, much less meet in person.
Joined: 7/24/2009
Msg: 112
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 2/1/2010 10:25:35 AM
A lot of women put TOO MUCH in their profiles including a list of "Demands"
NO "fill in blank"
No "fill in blank"
No "fill in blank" Etc.....
If a Woman sends me a brief "hi" or looks at my profile thats enough to get the ball rolling. Woman complain that Men don't want to get to know them but are too easily intimidated when approached. The "CSGS FACTOR" (Catholic School Girl Syndrome) is the Order of The Day for many women (Repressed/Shamed/Guilt Trips) They Lied TO You LOL
Joined: 3/15/2006
Msg: 119
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 2/4/2010 3:56:12 AM

I actually set up the limitations on who can message me so you HAVE to type at least 100 characters.

I LOVE that feature there. Stopped ALL the one smiley emails I used to get. Also stopped the "Wanna chat?" silliness.
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 121
Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 2/4/2010 7:40:13 PM
Let's not forget the women out there who just "LUVE" the attention they're getting... They aren't even looking for something, unless of course it suits them - in relationship or not. To be acknowledged is so important to some fools that even the worst one-liners, copy/paste mails, etc., appeal to them because they want to believe that the person actually gives a shi.t.
Joined: 2/3/2010
Msg: 134
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Ladies, I Get It, I Finally Get It
Posted: 2/11/2010 9:19:18 PM
I've noticed that a number or women are claiming that they are minimizing the quantity (and maximizing the "quantity") of their emails by NOT posting a picture. Perhaps this is a good idea. However, I would say that if you're going to do this, then write a decent profile. I will check out a profile without a picture, but if it's poorly written (or if there aren't many details), I'm gone.

My two cents
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