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 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 115
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Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?Page 5 of 28    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28)

An economics teacher made a statement that he had never failed a single
student before, but had once failed an entire class.

Posting email forwards with no substantiated truth dims my view of your intellect.
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 116
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History
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/30/2009 1:07:29 AM
The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.

A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.

Once in a while you will stumble upon the truth but most of us manage to pick ourselves up and hurry along as if nothing had happened.

You can always count on Americans to do the right thing—after they’ve tried everything else.

All of the above are Churchill quotes...
 nipoleon
Joined: 12/27/2005
Msg: 117
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Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/30/2009 3:12:27 AM

One day you realize there is no more free market, no more competition, no more dream.... just an existence in a Social environment. That will have a complete monopoly of your life choices.


No more free market ?
There hasn't been any free market in at least 100 years, if there ever was one.
No more competition ?
Competition is strictly for the little guys. Does it look like there's any competition between the Oil Companies, or any of the major corporations in the world ? Does Bill Gates look like a champion of the free market ? The last thing the corporations want is competition and they will stamp it out wherever it tries to come about.
The only time there's ever any competition is when government enforces anti-trust laws and demands competition.
There is no Free Market, and the only time anything close to a free market exists is when government forces it upon business.


We just want the balance that works.... and the Government has grown out of control.... and doesn't look to slow down.


Government is not out of control.
It's being controlled perfectly well, by those who profit from it.
 fzrhusker
Joined: 10/8/2005
Msg: 118
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/30/2009 12:55:23 PM
Wow are you that offended by a couple joke emails? Must have hit a nerve?

This arrogant right wing extremist American will go back to driving my gas hog truck, smoking and playing with my guns, oh and I may even see about investing in some oil drilling in Canada, maybe we can spill a barrel or two.
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 119
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History
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 8/30/2009 10:12:59 PM

Wow are you that offended by a couple joke emails?

Offended? Na....pathetic is the word I'd use to describe them...and the people who actually believe them to be truth...g-d knows how many times it's been sent to me by serious people who also send that "In this country we speak ENGLISH..." diatribe.
Kool Aid drinkers I call 'em.

After posting several times in this thread and clearly attempting to discuss the thread in a serious manner, you post the above...without any indication that you meant it as a "joke". Based on experience, I'd say you actually meant it and believed it. Hence the reaction.

Then again, perhaps you were attempting to provoke others for provoking's sake. (which is usually a sign of an inferiority complex).

Fort Mac is always looking for people...com'on up!
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 120
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History
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 9/1/2009 12:55:04 PM

Is our system perfect? No. Do people have to wait for treatment sometimes, yes, usually because it isnt life threatening and our system is geared towards those that need it the worst are seen first. Is that perfect? No, but it is nice to know that generally if you need critical treatment or surgeries you will get it when you need it.
LOL! I'm printing this quote and sending it to my daughter, my Dad, and my DOCTORS LOL!!!!!

They've been nagging me for years to get several moles removed. In fact....probably no less that 6 nurses were nagging me to get one on my back removed IMMEDIATELY, when I'd had back surgery. LOL! It hasn't been real high on my list of priorities....although my family KEEPS on nagging me about it. I think it's great.....if we get a National Health Care program...then I can keep putting it off until it IS for a FACT cancerous and tell my family to nag Obama and get off MY butt 'cause I can't see a doctor about the moles until they ARE for a fact cancerous! LOL! I love it!
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 121
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Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 9/1/2009 7:44:27 PM
LOL! Will the put a limit on our sense of humor when we become socialists??? (quite obviously)

Gotta love it when people twist other people's words.
Looking into a mirror are ya? LOL! I cut and pasted the quote....VERBATIM.


My cousin just had a mole removed at the hospital yesterday. She discovered last Monday that part of it had changed colour, was at the doc later that afternoon and was sent to a specialist on Friday morning. Total time, 2 weeks. Where the hell are you people getting the idea that people under UHC plans aren't "allowed" to visit doctors?


Once again, I guess under "UHC" (whatever that is)...the first thing that's surgically removed is ones sense of humor. I guess I "got the idea" from someone who is under a UHC plan who stated as much in Post # 84.


Hope your insurance company doesn't consider it a pre-existing condition and dump your ass when the bills come due... I guess you're just going to have to keep your fingers crossed ...
My PRIMARY health care plan is Medicare (social program), which I already know does not cover the procedure. LOL! NOT to worry however....as my PRIVATE insurance with Anthem Blue Cross DOES PAY all the things not covered by Medicare.


EDIT: And just how many mole-related emergencies do you think there are going to be to keep you from getting treated before they become cancerous?!??!
Gosh...that's a tough question! I thought we all died just once????

For all who haven't had their sense of humor removed (an broomsticks inserted you know where); It's pretty obvious that we're looking at yet another scenario where the "threat" isn't reason enough to take action....ie...call us after you've been shot...if you don't bleed to death on the way to the phone.

Sadly however.....it's coming! Can't say we couldn't see it; any fool should have realized that decades ago. We've been "sue happy" and personally irresponsible for years and years. We've spent a good portion of my lifetime expecting everyone else to assume responsibility for our choices. From sueing electronics companies for crediting us with enough intelligence NOT to try to use our hairdryers in the shower, to knowing that general anesthesia is dangerous...ie, that even in a very "safe" surgery (less than .001% chance of death) that you have a .06% chance of suffering brain damage from the drugs. We sign release forms stating that we are aware of the risks...but then sue when the unlikely becomes reality. Some fast talking lawyer convinces some fool judge that sure, you signed the release...but the doctors didn't have your IQ tested and a psychological profile done on you beforehand...and he/she SHOULD have known that you were a moron! Indeed, WE have asked for it....and we're going to get it.

Like the man said in Post # 232

All grades would be averaged and everyone would receive the same grade so
no one would fail and no one would receive an A.
After the first test, the grades were averaged and everyone got a B. The
students who studied hard were upset and the students who studied little
were happy.
As the second test rolled around, the students who studied little had
studied even less and the ones who studied hard decided they wanted a free
ride too so they studied little.
The second test average was a D! No one was happy.
When the 3rd test rolled around, the average was an F.
The scores never increased as bickering, blame and name-calling all
resulted in hard feelings and no one would study for the benefit of anyone
else.
All failed, to their great surprise, and the teacher told them that
socialism would also ultimately fail because when the reward is great, the
effort to succeed is great, but when government takes all the reward away,
no one will try or want to succeed.


As I see it, any socialist program can only serve to BENEFIT....ME. LOL! I'm retired (don't have to study crap anymore....I'm going to ride on off into the sunset on someone elses sweat) Nope, I don't feel a bit guilty....as I paid outrageous taxes for 35 years supporting other people's parents and children...now it's THEIR turn to support me. The fact that us Baby Boomers are going break the backs of the next 3 generations of workers is irrelevant. They're mostly pro-socialist....so who am I to tell them they shouldn't have to support me. The fact that my retirement income is 1/2 again what their income is working full time is also irrelevant! It doesn't matter that my house is paid for and that I have money in the bank....they look ONLY at monthly income...which is TAXABLE. LOL! NONE of mine IS. (Thank you socialists!!!!) The last full year that I worked, I paid over $19,000.00 in TAXES. I'm not sure who I was supporting with that; but I am sure that our "social programs" scream they're going broke...even with all us Baby Boomers paying those kinds of tax dollars....and what do I care that Social Security will be flat broke by 2037....I'll be DEAD! LOL! (probably from those moles I keep dragging my feet about getting removed)

Back in 1950, as the baby boom was just getting started, each retiree's benefit was divided among 16 workers. Taxes could be kept low. Today, that number has dropped to 3.3 workers per retiree, and by 2025, it will reach--and remain at--about two workers per retiree. Each married couple will have to pay, in addition to their own family's expenses, Social Security retirement benefits for one retiree. In order to pay promised benefits, either taxes of some kind must rise or other government services must be cut.
LOL! Now...I personally NEED the socialists to stay in control until I'm dead because I don't want to have to dip into any of my private pension money for dumb stuff like....buying groceries or paying my electric bill.

No, indeed....when I was working and paying taxes....I HATED socialism.....now that I'm no longer producing anything, not stimulating the economy because my home is paid for; I'm not buying gas to get back and forth to work, not buying meals out everyday, not buying work clothes, not paying a day care...heck, my property taxes are even reduced by 40% so I'm spending less to support public education etc, etc...... I LOVE SOCIALISM!!! LOL! All I needed to do to learn to appreciate it....was stop working for a living!
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 122
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Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 9/1/2009 9:48:47 PM
My dad told me the university professor/whole class failed story back in the 70's as an example of why communism doesn't work. Just sayin'

Although it does raise the reoccurring question to my mind... Why do people confuse communism with socialism?
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 123
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 9/1/2009 10:01:04 PM
That's actually a huge part of why Americans are anti-Socialist.
 GrandmaBooBoo
Joined: 12/30/2006
Msg: 124
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Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 9/1/2009 10:24:27 PM
Although it does raise the reoccurring question to my mind... Why do people confuse communism with socialism?
Because they BOTH subscribe to Marxist Social Theory. Many do not realize that "political parties" are nothing more than the regime which controls "fiscal policy".

"Captialism" is driven by the individuals desire to achieve, excel and prosper. "Socialism" is driven by a "collective need" which is then financed by those with the drive to achieve, excel and prosper, and is dependent on the "good will" of those few who do achieve, excel, but they no longer prosper. "Communism" is driven by the "collective need" of the many, but is sternly enforced by a militia when there is not sufficient "good will" of the few to provide for the many.
 grizzelda
Joined: 6/25/2006
Msg: 125
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Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 9/2/2009 7:00:16 AM

LOL! I'm printing this quote and sending it to my daughter, my Dad, and my DOCTORS LOL!!!!!

They've been nagging me for years to get several moles removed. In fact....probably no less that 6 nurses were nagging me to get one on my back removed IMMEDIATELY, when I'd had back surgery. LOL! It hasn't been real high on my list of priorities....although my family KEEPS on nagging me about it. I think it's great.....if we get a National Health Care program...then I can keep putting it off until it IS for a FACT cancerous and tell my family to nag Obama and get off MY butt 'cause I can't see a doctor about the moles until they ARE for a fact cancerous! LOL! I love it!


Really? That is what you took from my post? The fact that someone MAY have an elective surgery cancelled and re scheduled because someone with a life threatening condition will get preferential treatment somehow equates to "you have to be dying to get treatment"? Nice leap there!!!
 HalftimeDad
Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 127
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/1/2009 1:39:12 PM
Angela Merkel is so much farther left than any Democrat that you wouldn't even be able to recognize her positions.

Conservative in the rest of the world means one thing. Only in America and Iran does it mean what you think it means.
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 129
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History
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/2/2009 9:58:18 AM
universal health care did not come automatically nor was it easy here in canada,read about the struggle ,the doctors went on strike when it was first made law in the prairy province, men women and children died, british doctors had to be brought in. know your history
 want to travel
Joined: 7/29/2006
Msg: 130
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Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/2/2009 10:00:33 AM
americans are a funny lot, they call canada a 'socialist state',did americans know that canada is the only g8 country not to have bailed out the banks
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 132
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/2/2009 1:36:19 PM
Economically and to me, morally, capitalism is simply superior to socialism. Let me explain why I think capitalism is better, from a moral perspective. I have a number of personal values - smoking is bad, cheating is bad, et cetera. These are all things I will go through my life without doing and I would prefer if other people didn't either. Do I think there should be laws against this? Unless there is direct damage done or contractual violations, no, I don't think there should be. Unless a third party is unduly harmed, it is my belief that a person should exercise his/her set of morals and preferences and do whatever he/she likes with his/her resources and self.

And quite clearly we have another person who is "agin'" socialism" with absolutely NO concept of what it is.

I'll offer a little clue:

Capitalism IS NOT THE SAME THING as democracy and socialism IS NOT THE SAME THING as totalitarianism.

All those "moral" reasons given for being for capitalism and "agin'" socialism have nothing to do with either.

Your "moral" objection is properly directed at totalitarianism vs. democracy... NOT socialism vs. capitalism.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 136
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/7/2009 5:07:42 PM

No - my explanation should have made it clear I'm not talking about social policies, but economic ones. When you tax a person's money away from them, you are taking away their economic liberty.

roflmao

That is not even close to what you posted, you cannot 'spin' it away that easily.

I will requote the statement.


Economically and to me, morally, capitalism is simply superior to socialism. Let me explain why I think capitalism is better, from a moral perspective. I have a number of personal values - smoking is bad, cheating is bad, et cetera. These are all things I will go through my life without doing and I would prefer if other people didn't either. Do I think there should be laws against this? Unless there is direct damage done or contractual violations, no, I don't think there should be. Unless a third party is unduly harmed, it is my belief that a person should exercise his/her set of morals and preferences and do whatever he/she likes with his/her resources and self.

This does NOT say EVEN ONE THING about taxing "a person's money away". It says NOTHING about "sin taxes" or any other kind of tax.

What it VERY CLEARLY does say is that a person's non-harmful moral choices and preferences should not be made illegal, that these are personal matters, not public.

Taxing something does not make it illegal and it does not deny one the 'right' to choose to allocate one's resources to it.

Your statement clearly speaks of social policy as it relates to lawful/unlawful behaviour, not taxation, and this has nothing to do with capitalism vs. socialism.
 Chitownguy40
Joined: 9/29/2009
Msg: 137
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/7/2009 10:07:18 PM
Good question. I have been a socialist most of my adult life. The thing that always bugs me is the people who really give me a hard time, the ones who denounce me and everything I supposedly stand for, never, EVER ask me a question. Not once. Mind you, most of these anti-socialist zealots couldn't write a coherent paragraph about socialism or name three prominant American socialists off the tops of their heads.
 Chuck65201
Joined: 11/19/2007
Msg: 139
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/8/2009 8:04:17 AM

as a nation, that everything revolves around capitalism and greed.


This sums up the OP's presentation in a nut shell on this entire issue. It is sad but true.

The rich get richer and the poor get poorer as time marches on.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 140
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/8/2009 4:04:21 PM

This does NOT say EVEN ONE THING about taxing "a person's money away". It says NOTHING about "sin taxes" or any other kind of tax.

What it VERY CLEARLY does say is that a person's non-harmful moral choices and preferences should not be made illegal, that these are personal matters, not public.

Taxing something does not make it illegal and it does not deny one the 'right' to choose to allocate one's resources to it.

Your statement clearly speaks of social policy as it relates to lawful/unlawful behaviour, not taxation, and this has nothing to do with capitalism vs. socialism.


It's all a big, black box to you, isn't it?

I pay capital-gains tax and sometimes inheritance and income-tax. That money goes to pay for something. On the other side of the coin, "clean needle injection" sites, welfare for individuals and other sorts of social programs are paid for using public funding. Public funding is tax $.

Do you not understand how this translates to my resources being taken from me to support causes I don't support, leaving me with less resources to support things I want to support?

Keep trying.

Again... That's NOT what you said...

You said this...

Economically and to me, morally, capitalism is simply superior to socialism. Let me explain why I think capitalism is better, from a moral perspective. I have a number of personal values - smoking is bad, cheating is bad, et cetera. These are all things I will go through my life without doing and I would prefer if other people didn't either. Do I think there should be laws against this? Unless there is direct damage done or contractual violations, no, I don't think there should be. Unless a third party is unduly harmed, it is my belief that a person should exercise his/her set of morals and preferences and do whatever he/she likes with his/her resources and self.

Again... There is NOT ONE mention of taxes or taxation in this... NOT ONE!

You discuss whether or not such things should be ILLEGAL... and THAT'S IT... Nothing about taxes or taxation.

Since you seem hell-bent on "words meaning just exactly what you choose them to mean" then please SHOW us where that quote speaks of ANYTHING other than legality/illegality.

Please... Show us... because I'm just 'dieing' to find out how any of that means something other than what the words actually say.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 142
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/8/2009 5:31:47 PM
I don't make the distinction between legal and economic liberty. I didn't think I had to - so while it may not be immediately obvious, it's there. I really don't know what you thought I meant by resources if you didn't think I meant wealth/assets. It goes without saying that the most common way this happens is taxation. What else could I have meant contextually?

Contextually? Do you mean THIS "contextually"?

Let me explain why I think capitalism is better, from a moral perspective. I have a number of personal values - smoking is bad, cheating is bad, et cetera. These are all things I will go through my life without doing and I would prefer if other people didn't either. Do I think there should be laws against this? Unless there is direct damage done or contractual violations, no, I don't think there should be. Unless a third party is unduly harmed, it is my belief that a person should exercise his/her set of morals and preferences and do whatever he/she likes with his/her resources and self..

THAT is the context in which you made the statement (which is only a PART of the FINAL sentence, not even the full sentence)...

"it is my belief that a person should exercise his/her set of morals and preferences and do whatever he/she likes with his/her resources and self."

Contextually (that is within the context of the ORIGINAL statement, not simply the fragment you chose to restate) that sentence, by ALL applicable rules of English grammer and construction, means it should not be ILLEGAL to "do whatever he/she likes with his/her resources and self". It DOES NOT say squat about being taxed or having those taxes disbursed in a manner you don't approve of.

Try as you might, words will not mean "just exactly what you choose them to mean, nothing more, nothing less", they mean what they mean and within the context you stated them they DO NOT mean what you are asserting they mean.
 mungojoe
Joined: 11/15/2006
Msg: 144
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/8/2009 10:09:57 PM
Spending policies and social programs (or the creation of an autonomous body to handle such things) are passed through (or rejected) as laws.

That still does not make doing "whatever he/she likes with his/her resources and self" illegal. The word games still will not work, it takes a certain 'knack', which is absent in this.

Even ignoring that, what do you think I meant by a person having control over his/her resources?

Exactly what you said...

Economically and to me, morally, capitalism is simply superior to socialism. Let me explain why I think capitalism is better, from a moral perspective. I have a number of personal values - smoking is bad, cheating is bad, et cetera. These are all things I will go through my life without doing and I would prefer if other people didn't either. Do I think there should be laws against this? Unless there is direct damage done or contractual violations, no, I don't think there should be. Unless a third party is unduly harmed, it is my belief that a person should exercise his/her set of morals and preferences and do whatever he/she likes with his/her resources and self.

The meaning of the statement, and the context, is what it is, spinning it won't change that.
 Chuck65201
Joined: 11/19/2007
Msg: 145
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/9/2009 2:17:56 AM
thesearchforone very well said.
 SuburbanHomeboy
Joined: 1/7/2008
Msg: 146
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History
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/9/2011 2:57:41 AM
So here we are nearly 3 years on since the previous comments.... this is my first post here and I have no political agenda but I am a passive observer.

All I see on the news in October 2011 is the economic crisis brought on by greed and out of control capitalism stemming from the USA. I see bailouts of greedy self interest seeking institutions who lobby or sponsor politicians for their own end whilst the fodder have their homes repossessed, have their jobs outsourced abroad or are paid less and job security diminished,. In the meantime 5 billion dollars a day spent on war/occupations whilst people go hungry or die from lack of care or paper thin concern. I see a President who authorises a 'kill strike' on an Amercian Citizen who has been charged with no crime (less found guilty of one). I see the freedom of the independent media curtailed (wikileaks). I see the main stream media gagged from reporting on certain things or when they have to there is a bias put on them. I see persecution or ridicule of individuals who say anything anti American. I see Data Mining companies employed by institutions monitoring what is said on social media and collecting data on us all to be used in pretty much anyway seen fit. I hear governments wanting to take control of the internet and shut ISPs down to stop people networking in circumstances that don't suit their agenda. I hear talk of people being fitted with microchips with their ID information that can be scanned. hey, why stop at that, why not have a GPS built in too so they know where we are too.

Maybe I am missing something here but things don't seem right to me. There must be a better way than what I am seeing at the moment. Seems to me that Orwell's 1984 is here but through the back door. Freedom is an illusion and the greed and corruption brought about by Capitalism left unchecked can get away with anything it wants provided the price is right.
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 147
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History
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/9/2011 3:27:41 AM
I don't disagree with what you see having happened, nor in your displeasure with it all, but from what I have seen, the countries labelled by most Americans as being socialist, have many of the same problems. Greed and selfishness and all it's bad results are universals.

That doesn't make me want either to push for more socialism or less of it in the world, it just makes me want to curb and better channel the capitalist greed back more the way it was BEFORE the current crop of liars got a hold of the reigns of power, and fooled so many into believing that letting the selfish, the rich and the greedy define our entire lives was the best road to general happiness. Some folks here might CLAIM that that's a call for socialism, but they are liars who will call ANY sort of restriction of their ability to pillage other peoples' lives for their own enrichment, as socialism.


After all, there's no more pure example of total free market capitalism in action, than a pirate or a thief. It's an act of "socialism" to say that EVERYONE should pay the costs to provide all of the protections required for a merchant or other entrepreneur to bring their products to market.
 timetogo3223
Joined: 9/29/2011
Msg: 148
Why are Americans so Anti Socialist?
Posted: 10/9/2011 9:23:18 AM
For those who have never visited or spent any time in a socialist utopia, such as Cuba, I offer this regarding Fidel's revolution...and dedicate it to those drum bangers and socialist sympathizers who believe that somehow the merchant bringing the goods to market does not pay a "fair share" of the so-called "protections" and has larceny as the reason for existence.

The simpleton idea that "greed" is a new human concept limited to capitalists is really pathetic and lacking in any understanding of history and economics. The formalization of socialist ideas by a greasy-bearded Karl Marx has been tried all over the world and failed When taken to extremes you get N. Korea and Cuba. When tinkered with you get China and most of Europe, which is falling apart (as will China, as they do not have "coined freedom").

From Havana Bay to all you all:
The three "successes" of the revolution: education, sports and health care.

The three "failures" of the revolution: breakfast, lunch and dinner.

PS, of course Fidel went to Spain for treatment -- so much for one of the "successes".
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