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 modernature
Joined: 1/18/2009
Msg: 1
friend on a suicide mission...Page 2 of 2    (1, 2)
This is probably not the place for something like this..but I have a friend whose intent is to eventually end his life and in the meantime he is drinking all the time, everyday, taking copious amounts of pharmaceuticals and sleeping very little if at all. I have suggested aa and other ways to help him but he just gets mad at me. This has been escalating for years now. Any suggestions from someone who might have been through this. He is a very intelligent guy and is fully aware of what he is doing but seems to be taking the Hunter S. Thompson approach.
 Got Trance
Joined: 5/23/2007
Msg: 2
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/17/2009 7:03:03 PM
Watch the show "Intervention" on the A&E Network.
Will open your eyes and give you some insight.
I am being totally serious.

Robert
 Super Ryan
Joined: 9/15/2007
Msg: 3
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/17/2009 7:14:28 PM
I hate to pull out the cheesy cliche.

When it comes to drug and alcohol abuse, you can't help someone who does not want to help themselves.

I would say stay his friend if you emotionally can handle it, but don't bail him out of any of the problems his addictions causes him.
 red_relaxed
Joined: 7/18/2007
Msg: 4
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/17/2009 7:29:35 PM
It's heart breaking to watch our loved ones on a path of self destruction.
Don't enable him.
Talk to his other loved ones and organize an intervention. He may go and he may not.

Some people just have to die sooner than they ought to. You have to accept that.

 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 5
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/17/2009 8:03:28 PM
I'd do something nice for him...like take him shopping for his coffin. Might as well have everything pre-arranged, and perhaps even paid for before he offs hisself! Perhaps he will even have the balls to pay for it, rather than sticking his family or the taxpayer with the bill!
I'd suggest something in a nice oak finish, with a blue satin lining. He could even "test drive" a few to see which ones he likes!
No..I'm not kidding.
Either he will "wake up" and realize it isn't a game, OR he will go along with it and pay for his own demise...or figure that he WILL stick his family or the taxpayer with the bill. (Which is where a visit to 'potters field" might be in order...just a number on a mass grave....no charge!)
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 6
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/17/2009 9:10:37 PM

seriously, if he is trying he would of done it already...tell him to shave his head and go into the hood and yell racial slurs, if he chickens out then hes seeking attention

it sounds like im jokin and making fun but ive dealt with these types too often challenge them rather than coddle.


The problem here is that in mental health, there are no hard and fast rules, and if the guy does kill himself, the OP will need some serious therapy.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 7
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friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/17/2009 9:44:24 PM
I agree with he attention seeking. People that really intend to do it don't make a scene about it. Those that talk about it are either crying our for help and feel thats the only way that they can get it or are simply attention seeking.
 FL CO
Joined: 12/23/2008
Msg: 8
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friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:45:36 AM
^^^Being BakerActed won't help with his drug and alcohol problem unless he's willing to try and put a stop the the addiction/abuse. He'll probably suffer withdrawls during the time period and from what the OP described, the guy will most likely get violent about it. If this has been going on for years, 3 days isn't going to do much.
 yna6
Joined: 1/21/2007
Msg: 9
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/18/2009 8:13:14 AM
Sahara...please...the OP said the guy was escalating, been doing this for awhile and is well aware of what he is doing! He knows the consequences already! Op has stated that! Also, the OP said he tried to talk his friend into AA and other things too...nothing is working!
My idea really opens up that whole mortality issue for him. Does he REALLY want to face that? Shove it into his face and make him SEE the actual "reality" that is going to happen!
At the very least it shows that the OP has decided that his friend can do whatever he likes with his life, and is ready to help him anyways! A ture friend. Making his friend realise that no matter WHAT decision is made, his friend is going to see that he takes responsibility for it, and makes sure his buddy is comfortable WITH his decsions.
Personally, I figure it WILL be a "wake-up" call. It may well cause the friend to "rethink" his course a bit, and perhaps decide that a bit of help may well be in order! Addiction is one thing....getting the first step on the road to recovery is a big one....but this could help him make it.
I know it isn't going to "beat his addictions". the guy doesn't give a rats azz. BUT, it may make him thnk about other things besides his own selfish motivations of wanting to get blasted every chance he gets.
So quit apologizing to the OP for ideas that other post that YOU think are "ignoble" or "too whacky". Think about it for a minute...put yourself in the addicts shoes and think about shopping for a coffin....what would YOU be thinking then? Huh? Besides "getting mad" at your friend for "doing this" to you.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 10
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friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/18/2009 8:53:12 AM
It's hard to tell how much a person's problem is from depression and how much from addiction. Often they go together. There is a type of depression that can lessen temporarily when someone drinks alcohol, and this opens the door to addiction.

If your friend wants to change, wants to get better, but doesn't want to do AA or treatment for whatever reason, he can try the method in this book:

"Alcoholism - the Biochemical Connection, A Biomedical Regimen for Recovery with a Proven 75% Success Rate, A Breakthrough Seven-Week Self-Treatment Program"
by Joan Mathews Larson, Ph.D., Director of the Health Recovery Center in Minneapolis

I have seen several people try this method who eventually got better and stayed sober. One had an intervention done by family and friends and one didn't.

This same author has a book on treating depression, also. You can get both books on Amazon for just a few dollars.

From experience, I think it is hard to hear anything positive when you are depressed that will help to change your mood, especially if the problem is that you are feeling physically ill or have taken very poor care of yourself so that your brain feels sick.

It is difficult, from the inside, to see any other thing except the black clouds surrounding you. Sometimes it takes a period of healing before you can see anything positive ahead. This treatment plan might help with that.

If your friend doesn't have insurance, there are often some places that offer free counselling, other than AA.

The lack of sleep alone might be his/her main problem. Giving up caffeine and stimulants for a few weeks, taking Melatonin 20 minutes before bed, a hot Epsom Salts bath, and following other guidelines for good sleep hygiene will help with that. Alcohol interferes with getting a normal type of sleep, so the sleep problem might not resolve until he can go off of the alcohol for a while.

If your friend has money, there is a way of doing detox that eliminates the withdrawl period by putting the person into a light coma during the worst of it--usually the first 3 days. The extreme physical and psychological pain of withdrawal prevents many people from even attempting to dry out, even temporarily. And even if they do temporarily dry out, this period of pain can be a foundation for the next binge, as memories return, recriminations happen, consequences are dealt with, regret and guilt sets in, and sets the tone for the next few months.

The author of this book became a Doctor because she saw her son become addicted, then after going through treatment and a dry period, he developed depression and then killed himself. She wanted to find another way to treat addiction that addresses the underlying problems, and also treat any depression. Addiction often masks depression. But depression doesn't always cause addiction.

If your friend is using alcohol and drugs to self-medicate other health problems like ADD, mood swings, or pain, then even after he/she dries out, these will have to be addressed, or after the first stress of these other problems the temptation to go back to dealing with it the old way will be intense.

If your friend is using alcohol and drugs to deal with emotional issues like childhood abuse, unrelenting grief, loss, social anxiety, and spiritual calling, then these will surface again and he/she will need some effective personal tools to deal with them. You can help them search for something that works. Cognitive therapy works well for many people who have a confused, moody way of thinking, or black-and-white thinking. Jungian type-therapy can help with a spiritual longing that doesn't feel fulfilled by typical religious practices. Volunteering to help others worse off can put perspective on ANY problem, as there is almost always someone worse off.

Childhood abuse, or buried anger from being mistreated can be very difficult to deal with, since it can teach very ineffective methods for coping that are child-like and don't hold up well to the rigors of adult life. Yet, the person might feel the need to keep secret about them as a residual duty to the past, or from fear of retribution from the old aggressor or perceived new threats. In AA, they say, 'You only are as sick as the secrets you keep.' And that is very true, but who do you tell? And when? Who do you trust? This is the dillema. Stimulant drugs and lack of sleep make this problem worse because it can cause a feeling of paranoia. Yet the user clings to them because he/she can keep so busy as to never look inside themselves, never to see or deal with the ghosts that haunt them when everything is quiet.

Sometimes drinking and drug use is just a habit learned in youth, gone bad. It can be that a person can dry out, stay dry and replace the bad habits with good ones. This is always a good strategy when trying to "give up" or relinquish anything. You have to replace it with something. What to do with the hours that used to be spent drinking and drugging? This is an important question that needs to be figured out.

Go to AA and get some of their literature, or get these books I am recommending. Leave them laying around where he/she can see them. Sometimes it takes weeks or months for it to get past the haze of the alcohol and drugs. During a lucid moment, they might pick it up and at least look at it. This can lead to healing just in itself.

Its really hard for someone who isn't coping well to begin with to try something new, like going to AA or to counselling. Sometimes it is easier to make the appointment yourself or find the location of a meeting and "do with" instead of "do to" the person what you think they might need. They can't respond to "being told" but might respond to just going along with whatever you are doing at the time. (Which might be exactly the behavior that got them into this mess to begin with.)

You can't rationalize with an un-rational mind. Find a moment in time when they are dry, sober, and not under the effects of any drugs to talk to them. (Unfortunately, this might never happen if they are so saturated with them that it would be months for them to be truly sober.)

Pay much more attention to them when they aren't drinking or drugging than when they are. The dry times are the time to keep them busy, or doing new things that might be fun and might lift their mood. Go to a healthy restaraunt. Get healthy food into them, do something that requires exercise, fresh air and sunshine, which will increase his/her natural endorphins. Exercise is just as effective for depression as any medication on the market today.

Even if the person is not dry, they can go to AA, get a mentor and someone there might be able to help you with organizing an intervention or with some help when the person is in very bad straights. The ones who have been there know all the tricks, know all the excuses, understand what to do...and what not to do.

You can help by going to open AA meetings, Alanon meetings, or read up on some literature for co-dependents. You primarily have to learn to take care of yourself while caring for someone who is out of control and can't take care of themselves or even notice how this is affecting you. You have to be centered and strong for both of you because addiction, withdrawal, and recovery can be a roller-coaster ride that will change you permanently if you are not careful. For one thing, you can be taken advantage of by someone who is not in control of their right mind. You can perpetuate the problem by helping too much in certain ways, and not enough in others.

The average long-term recovery rate for most addicts is less than 20%. Don't let that be a way to give up hope. I have seen many people who have recovered. One took three tries in three different treatment programs and went on to help others for 20 years and developed a very effective treatment model for the State of Florida.

Examine why you want to help someone who seems to not want any help. Sometimes people have to learn for themselves that certain paths are a dead-end. That is freedom. That is his/her free-will, and you can't take that away from them. An intervention can help jolt them for a moment into an awareness that they are trapped by alcohol and drugs and aren't really "free" at all. But this is usually only momentary--just long enough to talk them into getting into a treatment program of some kind.

Good luck, take really good care of yourself. Model an example he/she can follow if they wish.
 SAguy_06
Joined: 12/29/2005
Msg: 11
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/18/2009 9:04:08 AM
I would hope he would realize that his drinking and driving could seriously hurt inocent people. If he trully cant control his drinking and driving that he may need to be shown how to effectivly end his life that he doesnt cause any harm to others.
 Ideoform
Joined: 9/23/2007
Msg: 12
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friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/18/2009 2:22:02 PM

"Those that talk about it are either crying our for help and feel thats the only way that they can get it or are simply attention seeking."


This is a myth about suicide.

Any talk about suicide can be the last time you hear from them...even if its been a dozen times before.

The caution here is be careful not to pay more attention to the negative feelings than the person really needs. If they think the only way that they can get other people's attention is with negative behavior or negative words then you are perpetuating their focus on what is "wrong" in their lives.

Report any suicide threats. A threat is serious if you are questioning in your own mind if it is...anyone who is truly joking would not be making you feel unsure about it. Unless you are a professional (and even then, nobody really knows for sure) you aren't going to be able to predict a threat's seriousness. If it was that easy to figure out, there would be far fewer suicides in this world.

And, of course, the only way to "prove" it is real is for a person to truly hurt themselves, which is a sad reason to wait.
 modernature
Joined: 1/18/2009
Msg: 13
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/18/2009 6:53:45 PM
Thanks for the responses. And yes it escalated to the point where we got into a fist fight in a restaurant..then again in the parking lot..and he lost..being that he was really drunk. He is facing criminal charges because of tax evasion so he is going to volunteer to go to jail. I think it may help in some strange way.
 JWG86
Joined: 7/5/2008
Msg: 14
friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/23/2009 4:48:27 PM

A friend of mine commited suicide last week after several previous attempts. 24 hours before he died he seemed happy and back to normal, so much so that I actually thought to myself, with relief, "looks like he is out of the woods". So, be especially wary of a sudden turn in his mood. He might really be feeling better, but then again he might have just finally made a truly final decision.


When someone does what your friend did, it is a huge red flag beause like you say, they have made a decision to truly kill themselves. When you know you won't be around tomorrow, why not smile? You have NO PROBLEMS. The decision that has beeen weighing on them is lifted, and they feel free. Very wary of that mood-swing.

Also look out for people who apologize to people they have wronged and tie up other "loose ends", people who give away things that are important to them that would normally not be given away, etc.
 FLmusicdude
Joined: 7/14/2009
Msg: 15
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friend on a suicide mission...
Posted: 8/23/2009 7:08:28 PM
first off dont force him to do anything because he will hate you for it. He's simply unhappy with his life and using anything he can to ignore the fact that it sucks so much. What he does need is a friend, he needs a reason to live besides the drugs. I've had friends like this in high-school its so depressing but they can be helped if they can be shown they're own worth and lifes worth. They think its not worth living at the moment. Show him hes not alone, that he to can have a purpose and be a fully functional member of society. He's probably sick of people judging him, it's hard when a person is in that state. I've been close to that state myself and hated myself. It's a matter of finding a reason to live. Taking it slowly day by day. It may seem obvious but for these ppl, they've giving up and just want to feel numb so they can go on living. Horrible....Just be there for him and be his friend, if he has someone who cares about him and lets him vent and discuss his problems theres a chance he will give up his suicide mission and continue living after finding a new goal in life. Good luck man, I hardly pray these days but this is a worthy cause I'll pray for em. This thread made me sad... Good luck!
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