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 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 114
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The Game and its effectivenessPage 3 of 15    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15)
Thanks for the info, Colonel. I may have to check out some of that material.

I've used NLP for some magic tricks before and, when used properly, it can have astonishing effects. The problem is that those effects are very short-lived. Fine for me as a magician, but lousy for the PUA trying to build real attraction and not just some knee-jerk reaction.

For a great study on NLP and its use in magic, Max Maven's "Nothing" includes a great effect. I was able to invent my own illusion based on his effect and have used it many times with great success. The illusion involves me meeting a group of people, then telling one member of the group that I sensed she has a very strong aura. While standing several feet away from her, I ask her to name the first color that comes to her head, and when she does, I ask her to make a fist and concentrate her aura on her fist. When she opens her fist and looks at her palm, smeared on her palm is the color she named.

Needless to say, it freaks the heck outta people.
 A-Womans-Best-Friend
Joined: 7/29/2009
Msg: 117
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/15/2009 9:08:14 AM
Doesn’t this thread prove to you that Men are trying to IMPROVE themselves?

Venusian Arts is the study of women for better success at dating and relationships, much as Marital Arts trains someone to better protect themselves, venusian/pickup arts better trains men to get the girl they want to be in a relationship with.
What is Wrong with that?

There is also Martian Arts the study of men for better success for women to get the man of their dreams to be in a relationship with women and that’s what I am teaching the OP this month. When I first notice this amazing women who unlike many women today is willing to learn, study, search, practice and try to win the heart of the man of her dreams I was compelled to help her and prove the point that getting a relationship requires work.

First I showed her how to pick the best men we could find on PoF near her, she got about 5 who I coach her what to say and show to get them very interested in her and by 1 week she got several dates. 3 this week Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday with very attractive, responsible and serious great men with very different personalities that required 3 different types of behaviour and dating techniques to win over. But she will find out which of the 3 she likes the most, not who is most interested and willing to get her, the choice is with her because the OP has the skills and knowledge with my help to get anyone she wants.

With in 1-2 months I am sure the OP will not be single and in a relationship she always wanted with the man she always dreamed of being with. All it took was a little effort and knowledge to get everything she can want.
What are other people’s excuses why they don’t try and are still single?
 Vincent_1984
Joined: 11/14/2005
Msg: 118
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The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/15/2009 11:28:14 AM
Well, I am still going on faith that simply being myself is enough to impress a woman but, as I see it, time and time again women keep falling for guys, who don't always have the best of intentions, simply because they used some sort of game to stand out.

To be honest, I don't really want to learn how to play women, it's not something that I feel is right and it goes against who I am as a person but I find it pretty frustrating when I know there are plenty of great guys out there who are getting left in the dust because they don't have any game.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 119
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/15/2009 3:08:27 PM
roninvince,

Well, I am still going on faith that simply being myself is enough to impress a woman but, as I see it, time and time again women keep falling for guys, who don't always have the best of intentions, simply because they used some sort of game to stand out.

90% of legit PUA literature is noting what women like in a guy, and how to be a better (and more attractive) guy, in both the persona you carry, and of course, making sure you have your fundamentals on looks covered.

The guys who have game, natural or learned... or guys who are great looking, natural or make-overed, can have bad intentions or not. Obviously guys with bad intentions are going to want to the maximize interest of a gal, right? That doesn't mean maximizing the interest of a gal means manipulation or one having bad intentions.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 120
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/15/2009 6:46:51 PM
You know, when people tell you to be yourself - they mean be the self you want to be. Improve on what you want to be happy with yourself. The confidence you get from that alone changes the vibe you project socially.

There are women who like men with game, like players, etc. The thing to realize is those aren't the women you should want to attract.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 123
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/21/2009 10:34:55 AM
Nobody's born with anything more than a tendency to have good people skills... "The Game" isn't a manual, it's a story about a guy who was supposed to WRITE a manual on being a pick-up artist, but his story upon doing research turned from nerd-writer to ladies man in the process... and obviously explaining the basics. And in the end, the moral of the story is that having "game" to work with ladies to diffuse their assumptions about guys, to peak their interest, etc. isn't just about girls but about life in general on being confident and having good people skills.

Anyway, Pick-Up Artist (PUA) literature really started to blow up in online communities because of observing guys who were "born" with it (ie it came naturally for some guys). Nerds who couldn't get a girl to save their lives just sat back and observed guys who could. Just the same as observing and adopting "good manners" for a job interview, guys would do the same about approaching women -- because what women say they like (or what mom told you) strongly differs from what they actually gravitate toward. What women want in a guy when they explain, is usually their dream guy when in a relationship -- not a guy they don't know yet approaching them.

Now, from the "basics" point-of-view, some say "That stuff (which I didn't read) doesn't work! Just be yourself! Women just like [this]! It's what mom told you, and me (a mother of 2) tells you too!" Two obvious things:

(a) If what women say they want was the same as what they end up truly wanting -- there would not be a million nice guys frustrated not getting girls. And let me emphasize not getting girls who are NOT just looking for a blatant jerk, either -- but normal, attractive girls who like going out to the bar, have a life ahead of them, and aren't skanks.

(b) Many women (and some guys) will NOT like any literature that encourages a guy to "pick up" a girl. That by itself sounds demeaning to the sensitive types (even though they expect guys to approach girls). They will have a huge bias about the sort of stuff, and all they visualize is some kid going up to a gal way out of their league, acting like a used car salesman trying to use one-liners to get them into bed in 5 seconds. They're just bitter because they want a guy to be predictable... An analogy is, any time you do a magic trick to someone, a piece of you feels humbled. To some sensitive types, humiliated. Why? You don't like someone having something "set up" in the background "against" you, even if it's little minor things like using certain words that tend to make someone feel more comfortable, etc. It's not about manipulation at all... so ignore them - they just whine.

Obviously, some PUA material tries to add silly things to it all -- but the basics are all the same, and one shouldn't take it as the gospel truth outside of the core concept -- how women tend to respond to things, and what women end up gravitating toward, even if it seems weird.
 jacob8088
Joined: 9/6/2009
Msg: 128
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/21/2009 8:11:26 PM
I've read that book before, just out of curiosity. And no I haven't used any of those tools to pick up women.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 129
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The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/21/2009 10:24:44 PM

I have been on a losing streak ever since I became interested in the oppossite sex.

The reason you're on a losing streak is because you keep telling yourself you are. You reject yourself long before any woman you speak to hears a word uttered from your lips. I have seen dozens of posts from you on these forums and have yet to see one that isn't laden with negativity and self-defeating talk.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 131
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/22/2009 8:51:07 AM
Drusurfer06,

just wonder how some guys are just so good at starting conversations or initiating flirting with women, while other guys struggle, those other guys make it look so easy, it's like they were born with the social skills and confidence in order to attract girls and get a girlfriend easily.

Well, if you know how to converse with people in general (co-workers, family, friends, etc), then it's just a self-esteem issue if you can't do the same with strangers (note: girls). When you really don't care -- "it" comes naturally. The same as it would talking to a great uncle at a family reunion -- you don't say "Oh wow, Bob over there talks to great uncle Frank SO well!" Now, you will say that about Bob talking to a hottie at the bar. Why? Because you'd clam up. Why? You care too much about what she thinks about you every second while you talk, and how you're coming across, and intimidated by her good looks. When ya don't feel that -- it's easy.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 132
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/22/2009 9:20:00 AM

just wonder how some guys are just so good at starting conversations or initiating flirting with women, while other guys struggle, those other guys make it look so easy, it's like they were born with the social skills and confidence in order to attract girls and get a girlfriend easily.


This is a great point and confident realist addressed it well, but I would like to add something to it. When you see a girl and say, wait I don't have anything to talk about. Right there off the bat you shot yourself down. Why do you need to talk about anything? Do you have to tell her about yourself? Hell no. That is validating, it gives her veto power over you. But also notice that it is a human instinct, a need to communicate with others, we want to be understood. Half of our ability to feel attraction derives from those that dig us. Hmmm. Guess what, the girl, the super hot one, the normal one, the chubby one, all of them also have that same emotion in common.

So instead of going to talk to her and say "Hi I am such a great guy because of blah, blah, blah," go to her, give her a weird look and say "That belt of yours is so odd, the last time I saw something like it was in a Bazaar in Istanbul, did you get it there or in some cool boutique here in the States."

Then start asking questions, but fun questions that are relevant to the choices that she has made about herself.
 Confident-Realist
Joined: 2/8/2004
Msg: 136
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/22/2009 11:04:08 AM
Drusurfer06,

Just take it the same way you'd talk to, say, a friend of a friend who showed up and you never met before... or a buddy's girlfriend you just met. Are you going to promote yourself? No... Conversation can come naturally if they're not the quiet type. Basically, it becomes more difficult when you think your goal is to get her interested in you. Your goal is to have some nice chit-chat banter. The goal is to have a good time. With that said, you should have a few openers under your belt, sure... and you feed off each other from there. Taking from OutMind's opener, here's an example:

You: That belt of yours is so odd, the last time I saw something like it was in a Bazaar in Istanbul, did you get it there or in some cool boutique here in the States.

Her: Haha... no, I just got it at Marshall's. It doesn't look that weird does it?

You: I wouldn't say weird ... unique would be a better word. (eye contact, smile) I take it you don't strive to be a plain Jane.... like that girl over there (subtle motion to a plain-jane type of gal in the room).

Her: Yeah... I like to have SOME style. I have this one friend who's like that and [blah blah blah]

You: Yeah, to us guys, if a gal's dressed like a plain-Jane at a bar, you know she's only a few years away from wearing Mom Jeans...

Her: Mom Jeans? What are those??

You: Listen, I'm honestly not much of a conversationalist. I was told on Plenty of Fish I could get laid if I started a conversation with a girl, and that girl is you. So let's cut to the chase. Wanna do it?

Her: Sure! Where's your car?

Okay, the last part, not so much. ;) But you get the idea...
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 137
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/22/2009 11:20:14 AM

True, but what if the conversation is just one-sided when you try to start one with a girl? what are some great open-ended questions to ask?


Remember, you are the man. If a conversation gets one sided it's because you allowed it. End of story. Be the man and control the conversation. How do you do this? Remember, stop doing the blah, blah, blah. And start asking the questions, if let's say she goes into the issue of the ex, remember, YOU are in control, You can say "I know how you feel, but what do you think about this other thing." You move it, you keep it moving.

And you will know when you are in control when you can do that dreaded silence, the one all men are scared of, take that pause and then start again. You see this is one of keys for it to work. You want her to do the talking, be the one pushing forward towards you. If you are the one pushing forward towards her, and doing all the talking and showing off and all that good stuff. Eventually she is going to think you are full of yourself. Now that does not mean that you do not share of your life script. Women do this, but do it not to show off, but to make her feel comfortable and safe and create "future" of things you can do together. Same thing when you start creating sexual tension.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 138
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/22/2009 12:01:25 PM
Her: Mom Jeans? What are those??


You crack me up dude. That was funny.


but for some reason there is nothing that comes to my mind.


Dude, what this tells me is that you are not listening. Learn to listen. The problem is that while they are talking you are thinking about her breasts and how unlucky you are that you are never going to touch those breasts. You head is in a fog, because you're thinking self depricating thoughts. Instead LISTEN.

"You bought it at Marshalls? YOu're kidding me? You don't strike me like a Marshall's type of girl, I always thought those are homely. But you seem to have a sense of style. So tell me then, where did you get your jeans? How about that bracelet?"

Again the words do not matter. What matters is that there's motion on the dialogue. When SHE starts asking you questions as well, and you do not turn it into an ego infused soliloquy things are cooking.

"So you have been to Istanbul?" She asks.

"I did once, It was a lot of fun, the bazaar was blah, blah, but have you been abroad before?"

Or

"No, but I stayed in a Holiday in Express before. How about you? Have you traveling abroad?"

So have fun.








 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 139
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The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/22/2009 10:06:52 PM

Alright I'm gonna try my best to stop with all the whining and negative posts, anyway, how can I increase my confidence with Women?

When I was with the local PUA group, a bunch of the guys went out to the local mall and they made up a game. They made a bet with each other, the winner of which would be the guy who first taked with 100 women. All they had to do was say one sentence to 100 different women. Scoring was on the honor system.

I think that's something you should try. Go to some populated area and time yourself to see how quickly you can talk to 100 women. Shoot for under an hour.

The point of this game is that it is a lot easier to speak to someone when you don't concern yourself with where the conversation is going. In this game, you are simply saying one or two sentences to someone and moving on. It can really be a good way to boost your confidence approaching women in general when you start to get good at those first few words.

And oh boy, does this game get you really good at the "three-second rule."
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 140
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History
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/22/2009 10:14:16 PM
I noticed you're in my area, Drsurfer. I can send you a couple of links to some PUA groups I used to hang out with. I don't know how active they are anymore, but when I joined, I found them to be a great group of men that gave me a lot of encouragement. They also got me out of the apartment...
 whatever3321
Joined: 12/13/2008
Msg: 142
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/23/2009 9:01:02 AM
There is a big difference between PUA and players and if you don't know the difference then im not gonna be the one to waste my breathe.

Its more of a confidence boost and also teaches guys some neat things to be more interesting and socially accepted by both sexes. I got into the game cause I enjoyed the chase and flirting not for the possibility of having sex and all the other baggage that comes with it. With all the STD's and the chance of failed birth control why would you risk it for A night of pleasure when you can find a woman that you could have a long term relationship with and have several years if not a lifetime of pleasure far greater than one night could ever give you.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 145
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/23/2009 1:26:48 PM
Why do I have to learn to read? Why do I have to learn to add? Throw a baseball, even learn to take a shit. Why? Why don't we all wear dippers old the way to the time we are all men and be like that.

It's life dude. You noticed the opposite sex, you want the opposite sex, learn. If you want a job, or make better money, what do you do, you learn. Why can't I just be the president, why can't I just have everything and everyone kiss my own butt?

In the country where I come from, which are not as politically correct as here, what they will tell someone whining so much as you, is: Necesitas una coñasa.

Which politely translates "Somebody needs to beat the sh it out of you."
Or the Southern version "Beat some sense into you."

Dude, get off the pot and start doing.

Of course, I mean this in the metaphorical sense if you know what I mean.
 OutMind
Joined: 2/13/2007
Msg: 149
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/23/2009 8:04:52 PM
but my gut feeling tells me that an overwhelming majority of guys were instinctively born with the natural ability to approach women the right way, initiate conversations, flirting and getting a girlfriend without a problem, it's like they were all born with "game", they had good luck since day one.


Have your gut feeling ever got you laid? No. Yes.

My has. And it has many times.

So dude, fire your gut. Your gut doesn't understand the basic problem that you have. And your problem is not sex. It is not women. It is not whether you are a natural or not, it has to do with one more basic thing, and until you learn to deal with his, embrace this, you will remain the whinny, whoose that you portray to be here.

You need to come to terms with FEAR. Yes fear. You fear your own fear, thus you will never achieve anything because you fear the risk and the FEAR that it will bring to you.

The first time that I got laid, I was scare shirtless of what I was doing. I played with the elastic of her panties for a long time and it actually freaked me out that she didn't complained when I pulled her panties down. I thought she should have slap my face call me names, or scream. Instead when I looked into her eyes she smiled and had the most glowing look in her face, almost motherly as if saying, it is okay, continue.

I was scared shitless. And you overcome. YOu do and you overcome. When you train for a sport, or the sports that I do, you push it to the edge and train there, then you do what is called intervals, that is you go pass your edge into the red zone and stay there for a while. DO YOU THINK THAT CAME NATURALLY? Hell no, it takes work. Hard work. And that applies to everything in life. Particularly understanding and getting women to like you, want you, love you.

So tell your gut feeling to fvck off. Nobody was initially a natural. Even the naturals sucked at one point but then they overcame their fear and tried and tried and continued trying. There is only one way to deal with fear, and that is to bring it on right on your face and confront it.

Or live in the shadows. And this does not apply only to women, but life itself.
 mysticaries
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 150
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/23/2009 9:27:42 PM
GOOD LORD. If you don't stop playing the victim and making excuses for yourself nothing about your situation is ever going to change. Some very intelligent men have offered you some great advice on here, and still your constant focus is on how easy everyone else has it and how hard it is for you. You are what you think you are. If you constantly bemoan yourself with these pathetic excuses and over-exaggerations (EVERYONE else has some natural inborn talent that you just don't have) then you are going to feel like crap about yourself and your behavior will reflect that. Can't you see that's a cop-out so that you don't have to take responsbility for doing the work that is required to meet your goals?

That's like sitting on the couch watching professional athletes play a game and saying, god, they were all born with natural talent, it's so easy for them, I could never do that, so I guess I'll just sit here and eat Cheetos because I'm not lucky like them. You have to work at anything you want in life. Sure some people may have an inborn advantage, but that's only one part of the equation. You seem to just be looking for someone to validate your excuses for yourself at this point, so you don't have to take responsibility. You'd do yourself a huge favor if you'd quit playing the victim and start -giving yourself some positive self-talk. Do affirmations. What you tell yourself you are, you are.
 PirateJohn09
Joined: 1/7/2009
Msg: 151
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The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/23/2009 9:57:37 PM
After that post, mystic, I think I may just have to ask you to marry me!
 duffy_ty
Joined: 5/12/2008
Msg: 154
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History
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/24/2009 7:25:20 AM
Well I hope it works because I'm not falling for the Game. I'm after the apple on top of the tree, the ones that people aren't patient enough to wait for.

When you're too much in a hurry you pick them off the ground without realizing they already started to rot.
 duffy_ty
Joined: 5/12/2008
Msg: 155
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The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/24/2009 7:30:28 AM
I get very confused about having to not ever say anything about the ex. He was 30 years of life. Do you not talk about your mom and dad! They were part of your life.

I think people need to understand that we're not kids anymore. We all have history behind us, a future ahead of us. It's the history behind us that created who you in the now.

If I'm with a guy and he wants to talk his ex, what did or didn't do, then I will listen.

As for the games people play, I don't get trapped into that easily. I can tell the good ones from the bad ones. Woman out there take your time and get to know the guy. If he's impatient, he'll walk away and you will have saved yourself the humility having to do it again and again and again.
 ColonelIngus
Joined: 9/16/2007
Msg: 158
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The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/24/2009 11:05:43 AM

How the hell is a women suppose to distingush between a guy pretending to be good and an actual good guy?

The same way a guy is supposed to distinguish between a gal pretending to have an orgasm and a gal actually having one.

Women fake entire orgasms, men fake entire relationships. The karma all balances out in the end.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 159
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/24/2009 11:11:13 AM

So basically I always have to keep stepping out of my comfort zone?
Not if you don't care if nothing ever changes. But in life, don't we gain the most in all things by stepping out of our comfort zones and improving ourselves?
 mysticaries
Joined: 4/4/2008
Msg: 160
The Game and its effectiveness
Posted: 9/24/2009 12:40:41 PM

If you meet a man and he is behaving in a manner that is much much better than the baseline, you can safely assume that he is working hard to impress you and at some future date there will be a reversion to the mean and his behavior will wind up much closer to the baseline. This is nice guy courtship 101. It's a game that has been going on for millennia.


LoL. This is some really sound advice. When I was younger I used to think I was just a jerk magnet because the 'nice guy' who courted me always seemed to turn into a different, more selfish and less considerate person after the courting period. After some life experience I realize that that's just the 'baseline' state for most guys. As depressing as may sound, there is some relief in knowing what to expect. It's also kind of funny, yet it seems unfair. I guess that's why so many women are dissatisfied in their marriages (and thus always nagging). The guys they thought they were getting weren't quite who they turned out to be.
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