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 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 313
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What's the reward for Chivalry? Page 13 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
The idea of chivalry extends well beyond the door being opened or who walks on what side of the road. In a world of equality, gender should not be a determining factor for ether of those examples, but for some it is. Why chivalry becomes such an outdated and bad thing is that often time it extends far beyond things like a door being opened. Women use this to their advantage all the time. Look at how difficult it is for a father to win during a custody fight. The women turns on the water works and it does not matter if she is not the best parent to look after the kids because for some chivalry dictates that women are initialed to certain things. There are lots of other examples of how this spills over. Lots of women want their cake and to eat it too. This is not right and this is why the idea of chivalry is a outdated and extremely toxic mentality. If you can not see the possible negative and unfair implications behind this it'd because your really slow or you like the unfair and negative implications.
 english lass
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 318
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 8:55:39 AM

It's also ridiculous to claim that expecting chivalry is not about having a sense of entitlement. Do women need chivalry? Are women going to stop breathing if they don’t receive chivalry on a date? Are women disabled? If the answer is "no" to all, this is a sense of entitlement as its some thing that is not needed. There is no way around it!


I agree that "expecting" something does infer feelings of entitlement... however, i disagree that just because something is unneeded but is still desired, that it then automatically becomes a matter of feeling entitled to it

i think that the majority of the women are not saying that they do 'expect' it, i think many are saying that they appreciate it, when it's offered

just like good manners, respect and kindness are also appreciated most of the time, by either gender

wishing for certain qualities/attributes/actions is not the same as feeling 'entitled' to them - it's simply an appreciation when they exist and an enjoyment of being with a person who acts/is that way
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 321
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 9:42:59 AM
"Child custody is different. Historically, children were considered to be property of the man, and therefore he was the one who was entitled to custody:"
"So no, a maternal preference by the system for child custody hasn't much to do with chivalry. Just the opposite, in fact - the further we've gotten from chivalry, the less that code has influenced who gets the kids. "
Wrong:
It is all how you look at it historically. See my friend the lost costudy to a crazy ex, because she had the milk bags really does not care how it was done in Rome! He does care how it is done today.How chivarly is done today does in fact give women the upper hand and this is a fact. Look at the last 50 years and you will see this holds true. At least in child cosudy fights, but it is bigger then that. It is how chivalry is done today that matters and how it is done today gives more to one gender then to the other and that is not equality. Men take it up the ass in court in part because of this. If you do not think the water works play a major roll when a women turns them on you would be missing the mark. It is a fact it does play a roll and this is part of the modern view of chivalry. If a man tries the water works well forget about it lol.
 Tarah0128
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 322
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 9:56:23 AM

This doesn’t even make friggin sense


Duh! that's what I'm saying ~ you can be with a man who's chivalrous but doesn't treat you like a second class citizen

All that means to me is that he's respectful ~ doesn't name call, opens doors, does favors like changing oil in your car(if he's the type that does things like that} I'm just giving examples. It's reciprocal. I give back the same respect and do his laundry, ironing... I like it like that. But that's within a relationship, naturally. I'm a polite woamn so bring with a polite man just makes sense
 Streetsvilleguy
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 324
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 10:58:17 AM
The acts of chivalry are much less about immediate rewards, but more about self respect and my responsibility and duty as a man. My parents and grand-parents imposed behaviours and a lifestyle that served them well, and has served myself well. Opening doors, etc. etc. etc. are done simply because that is my job . I could no sooner allow a woman to let herself into my car, or her to carry bags, or her to walk on the street side of a sidewalk or a hundred other things than I could leave the house with only one shoe on. I impose my values on my nephews and friends kids and when they ask why, or whats in it for them I simply say that you do it because it's their place to do it. You do it because others have always done it and now its their turn...and the world is a better place because they do it. If it is appreciated by others, great. If not , oh well, too bad for those folks. They will , and have learned that doing the right thing in all aspects of life is reward enough. Looking in the mirror each morning and seeing someone that you respect is the reward for good manners, chivalry, defending/standing up others when needed. Leading by example is all you really have to do...they pick up the subtle reward aspect of their actions soon enough. I'm no saint and certainly capable of being an ***hole, but what has been described as the Boy Scout side of me, is now an engrained part of my personality. I sound possibly like an old fart, but when I observe my friends teenagers, I fear that the modern way of child rearing hasn't really worked as well as was hoped for. That perhaps a lot more focussing on work ethics,good manners, consideration of others, knowing your place in the pack, discipline,appreciating what you have, the golden rule, and yes , chivalry, would have served their upbringing better. Wow...sounds like a rant now doesn't it.
 Cynderella
Joined: 3/8/2007
Msg: 325
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 1:35:35 PM
My undying Love, my highest respect, my heart and soul...

Tee Hee and I will kiss all his BOO-BOO's better...Tee Hee

BRING IT ON!
 barbee1970
Joined: 12/29/2008
Msg: 326
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/17/2009 12:01:39 PM
I give a big thank you! We women hardly see that anymore. I really love it when a teenage boy opens doors for ladies. It show he has learned how to be a gentleman. I see that alot at the school I work. Kids are taught to be so polite and they really are!

That's the town I grew up in. Maybe that too is why I am so courteous. The parents around there seem like they've taught chivalry for generations.
 chameleonf
Joined: 12/22/2008
Msg: 328
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/17/2009 1:17:36 PM

What's the reward for Chivalry?

The scented kerchief of the fair damsel.
 soflnighteagle
Joined: 8/12/2009
Msg: 330
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/17/2009 6:14:14 PM
Chivalry is an aspect of a person’s personality, there is no expectation of a reward because those that really are chivalrous are so because they believe it is what is right. The very act of expecting a reward is contrary to the idea of chivalry, and makes anything you do just a manipulation. Either you do what is right because it is right, or you have no chivalry.
 virgiomonkey
Joined: 2/8/2008
Msg: 332
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/18/2009 6:19:22 PM
....Food for thought......

....From my own personal experience here in New Zealand as in been a 'Gentleman' and to open the Door for three Ladies only to be growl at and to be told in no uncertain terms that you are a 'Male Chauvinist Pig' for been 'Chivalrous'.....
Then two months later at my local Gym at 'Les Mills' I did the same, to hold a door open for a Lady .....only to be again growl at that I am a 'Sexist Pig'....
So now I don't even bother, or even try to be a 'Gentleman' anymore here in New Zealand ....Happy now......... Western European Feminists.......?????

J.D
 late™
Joined: 2/1/2010
Msg: 338
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 4/30/2010 2:10:50 PM

What's the reward for Chivalry?

Self-respect.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 339
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 4/30/2010 7:48:05 PM
ALpha is, as is so often the case, correct. Add to that, the appreciation of the one to whom it is directed.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 341
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/1/2010 7:08:18 AM
Chivalry in past days, and courtesy these days are both selfless acts. So there is no reward for it - nor should one be expected unless you want to count how it makes you feel personally to be courteous/chivalrous.

If you do either expecting something for it, don't bother. The whole point of both is you do them because you want to, not for a response, or for appreciation.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 347
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/1/2010 12:57:40 PM
^^^my father still does it for my mother and my father AND brothers do stuff like that all the time for me. For example, one winter my bro cleaned the snow off my car since he was already out there, another male friend of mine for +20 years cleaned out the snowbank for me once when I was stuck at his place. These small kindness' stick out in my mind despite the fact that some are 10 years gone now.

And there's no way I would have walked into the church without waiting for my grandma anyways! The right thing for those cousins to do would have been to help her from the get-go, not after the fact that they notice she is gone.

I have noticed something strange these past two weeks though. The people who have held doors (whether completely letting me in before them or just holding it behind them as they went in) were all NON caucasian. The white dude actually let the door slam in my face - I was right behind him. Not sure if that means anything - sometimes I observe the weirdest things.

One girl at work calls me in jest "a little gentleman" because I open the door and let her pass first often. I don't think about it, I just do it out of courtesy. Just like I do not slam the door at my apartment complex despite every other person who does it that wakes me up at 2-4AM, then 5:30 AM etc. etc. It is very sad because it almost makes me think that there are less considerate folks out there than not.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 349
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/5/2010 10:27:15 PM
You do it because it's the only thing you can do, and expect nothing in return exactly for that same reason. Those who get it, get it. Those that don't probably never will.

The other day I went for a coffee at Tim's, and there was a small line up at the cash. This young woman tried to cut past me, and was in a great rush. I looked at her sternly, and she dropped back in line behind me rather sheepishly. I told her, in a friendly manner, that if we all started doing that, everything would be in disorder.

Then, about a minute later, I motioned for her to go ahead when my turn came. I said you are in an obvious rush, and I'm not.

Had I not made her stand in line, she would never have appreciated the gesture as much as she did.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 350
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/6/2010 8:47:13 AM
I see a lot of rhetoric to make things out to be more than they are. I tend to be pretty chivalrous and I don't feel better about myself for doing it, and I don't scowl at people that don't mimic my actions, and generally, all i get is a "thank you," and maybe a smile. I guess I'm supposed to make some big deal out of the small "victories" or something.

There really isn't much to get out of chivalry (aside from a small gesture of kindness) unless you decide to make it into some sort of personal satisfaction. Most women just take it in stride. Some appreciate it, but honestly, what are you to expect aside from small tokens of gratitude? You're probably not going to receive anything tangible, and I highly doubt that you're going to get into bed with her because of it either. Either you do it or you don't, and chances are that there is not going to be a whole lot of anything that will result because you did or did not do it.

I would like to think that women look for more in the quality of a man that whether or not he pulls out a chair or opens a door.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 351
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/6/2010 9:49:03 AM

This young woman tried to cut past me, and was in a great rush. I looked at her sternly, and she dropped back in line behind me rather sheepishly. I told her, in a friendly manner, that if we all started doing that, everything would be in disorder.

Then, about a minute later, I motioned for her to go ahead when my turn came. I said you are in an obvious rush, and I'm not.

Had I not made her stand in line, she would never have appreciated the gesture as much as she did.


What I find sad is that we have to even tell people how they should be behaving. I too, speak up if someone does things like that. Are things deteriorating so much that only embarassment forces proper behavior on people? Whenever someone lets me go ahead of them, I'm always grateful and I always notice it.

Even at the gym, people are always surprised when I allow them to work in with me and when they ask me it's like a big deal and almost like they encroaching on my space. I find that silly. We are all trying to get our workout done - why not share?

It's sad that people think that they are encroaching. The gym has to put signs up "no more gum", "clean your mess up on the bathroom counter", "put your weights away". Isn't this common knowledge? People throwing their gum and litter on the ground. Where are these people coming from? God help us, they are breeding too. Ug.
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 352
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/6/2010 11:50:33 AM

Chivalry was originally a way for gentlemen to show respect and appreciation for ladies, not something done with an eye towards what it might "earn" him.

That is completely wrong. Chivalry was a code of conduct of a knight in everyday walks of life. It demanded loyalty, honor, and courage, and was used far more often than not to describe a knight militarily. With respect to women, it's actually a little less romantic, given that women were seen as objects of affection to be won and then kept at home.

With respect to women, "chivalry is dead" is a victory cry to societal progress. Women are no longer objects that belong to men, but are their own independent people who do not need to be taken care of and coddled. Courteous people open doors for other people, whether they have boobs or not.
 WomanInProgress
Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 355
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/7/2010 7:03:54 AM
You do it because it's the only thing you can do, and expect nothing in return exactly for that same reason. Those who get it, get it. Those that don't probably never will.

Well said, MG. Those who don't often times can't/don't want to see it differently either, but if you're lucky once in a blue moon you get to see a person pick up on it right before your eyes. *shrug*
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 356
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/7/2010 7:22:48 AM
Chivalry is NOT being a "nice guy"...

only "nice guys" think it is...

basically its called being a gentleman...i mean from my memory- the "Knights" were "chivalrous"...

I seriously doubt those "knights" were "nice guys"...

Seriously...women like a strong man that is chivalrous...
 .dej
Joined: 11/6/2007
Msg: 358
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/7/2010 3:36:25 PM
Seriously...women like a strong man that is chivalrous...

Then they either don't know what chivalry means, or they don't think that women should be empowered.

There are women out there like that, though.


The reward is you would get a second date with me.

You don't open my doors, its the last time you see me.

hahahahaha

This kind of pretentiousness is the type that wouldn't get a FIRST date with me.
 BoonDockSaint73
Joined: 3/29/2010
Msg: 361
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/8/2010 8:57:26 AM
I'm still wondering why in the world the OP is looking for a "reward" from a woman.

what are you like a doggie that needs a Scooby snack for rolling over on your back?


Seriously- you are the man, be yourself yet be a gentleman at the same time...that does NOT mean you are weak nor does it mean you area "nice guy".

and if you like holding open doors- do it always...if a woman perceives that as being "weak" then just move onto the next woman as she is not a good fit for you...
 IgorFrankensteen
Joined: 6/29/2009
Msg: 362
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/8/2010 9:43:02 AM
This is back again? It IS a good subject.
By strict definition, the reward for chivalry is the right to bear arms in the service of the one who knighted you, without being thought of as a Brigand. That doesn't usually apply to the way people mean it these days, though.
As for REWARDS, the only way one can truly say one IS chivalrous, is the same as for saying one is "moral," or that one adheres to ANY code of rightful behavior: the reward, is that you feel centered, and on course. That's where the old saying "Virtue is its own reward" comes from. As soon as you begin to LOOK for some outer reward, you've STOPPED BEING CHIVALROUS (or moral, or virtuous).
I understand where the "nice guys" get the wrong idea...folks like Walt Disney get some of the blame, as do most modern, second rate movie writers. They LOVE to show us fantastic stories where the dweeby, untalented, weak, sloppy baboon (no doubt based on the writer looking in the mirror) gets the girl because all of the Strong, Virile, more capable men, are secretly just faking politeness, or are gay. When I was growing up, the fact that all the movies followed the same formula DIDN'T mean (as I know now) that most movie makers lacked courage and imagination, it meant that THIS WAS THE WAY TO ACHIEVE SUCCESS. The "nice guys" are folks who stopped paying attention to the rest of the real world at that point, and began demanding others obey the rules as they understand them.
 happybunny8
Joined: 4/16/2010
Msg: 363
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/8/2010 10:00:38 AM

As soon as you begin to LOOK for some outer reward, you've STOPPED BEING CHIVALROUS (or moral, or virtuous).


Bingo.

The media has such a large impact on people. Honestly, I just don't get it.


what are you like a doggie that needs a Scooby snack for rolling over on your back?

and if you like holding open doors- do it always...if a woman perceives that as being "weak" then just move onto the next woman as she is not a good fit for you...


LOL. Yeah, there are plenty of women who like doors being opened for them. I remain confused as to where these women are that look down on men for doing this and why any man would find that attractive....
 zangie
Joined: 5/30/2007
Msg: 372
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 5/10/2010 9:11:46 PM
Intent is important to me regardless of the action...

If you are nice( chivalrous) because you want something in return...that is not good...or being nice...
If you are nice ( chivalrous) just because that is who you are...that is good...

A man who does anything with the intent of impressing me so that I will do what he wants me to do...whatever that is...is never impressive..

A man who does nice things because that's how he thinks it should be, or because he respects me..that is impressive...

Intent is everything..even in the good/bad guy thing...
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