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 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 139
What's the reward for Chivalry? Page 5 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
Two things here:

First of Cindy, your wrong..............about the dragons..........you never met my EX.

Second somewhat to Irish's point, but a general observation. If you go back 3 or 4 generations, your parents and grandparents taught you civility. That now is moot, broken families modeling less than civil behavior, people fail to teach being civil is the correct way to live your life is at the heart of the problem. They are taught "make sure you get yours", not do unto others as they.....

Similarly there is a thread about appropriate clothing on a first date. Depending on what you think appropriate, and what the other is expecting, is the difference between showing respect and disrespect. Again why would you think twice about it, if mom bought you only jeans and shorts and T shirts, normal dress. Maturing is part of the process in civility, learning the differences and applying them.

Oh and Teen, the lady is supposed to show you the same civility and respect you show her. Nothing more, nothing less.
 Angel__Wings
Joined: 7/25/2009
Msg: 140
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 6:16:48 PM

Yes Chivalry is expected of gentlemen. What is expected of the ladies?

It's interesting how no one has answered this yet. Instead, we get this...


This is simply something some men do because they want to. Some of us woman like it and some don't. As I said earlier, the guy I met now does a couple of these things and I love the way it makes me feel and I know I give him more attention then I did to the guys I was with that didn't. I just feel closer to him because he does a couple of these things.

When chivalry was shall we say first shown, ladies had to behave a way they were told to. It is not like they had a choice in their own life. So no "rules" were made as to how woman treated her man it just expected that she be his property. She was simply chattel nothing more. The only thing she had to do was give him sons. If she didn't she could be dead.

So now yes some of us woman do like those little gestures, however if you don't want to do it then don't as you have seen here some woman don't like it anyways LOL


I don't necessarily mean to say that all men want is sex, but let's be realistic here. If women were not able to or chose not to ever give men sex, do you truly think the concept of chivalry would have ever come about in the first place?


Umm back in the day when it was created. No men did not expect sex from it. It just was what it was. Woman were not allowed to choose who they mated with they were sold to the best family her father or caretaker could get her into for his own gain.
 MasterFireWalker
Joined: 3/1/2009
Msg: 142
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 6:31:51 PM
Child Support Payments.

Please make sure he understands the ramifications of this.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 143
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History
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 6:33:03 PM
Although chivalry is associated with a particular way that a man treats a woman, the truth is, the term is attributable only to men because it came about during the time of knights. Don't you think we should all treat each other with respect & courtesy? Isn't that what you expect back? If what you allude to is men opening doors for women and the like, then, yes, a thank you is sufficient. The same thank you I give to a woman who happens to hold a door open for me, or that I expect when I do the same.

For the OP, who discussed this concept with a young man, well, what you expect when you treat people decently is to end up with a decent partner who treats you with the same courtesy and respect. If you teach your kids to treat others a certain way only so that they can have specific expectations, they are likely to be disappointed. If you teach them to do the right thing, they are more likely to recognize the same in others and end up with a partner who has similar values.
 Angel__Wings
Joined: 7/25/2009
Msg: 144
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 7:09:23 PM

So, both men and women are expected to be courteous, kind and considerate, yet men have a higher chivalrous standard beyond civility?


Ok you have lost me completely and I no longer understand what you are trying to say. I would not say it is a higher standard just a different way to show it. It is not required as you saw many woman don't even like it, so not expected either. There is no one higher on the standard level at all. It is simply different ways of showing respect from male to female/female to male. No higher standard just different.

I agree both people need to give 100% to each other but there are different ways of showing that respect. I honestly see those gestures as an intimate thing between a couple. When a guy I am not with holds the door for me, pulls out my chair. He will get a smile and a thank you, when the man I'm with does it, he will see something different in my eye when he gets the smile from me.
 bo_weeks
Joined: 1/5/2009
Msg: 145
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 7:28:20 PM

If women were not able to or chose not to ever give men sex, do you truly think the concept of chivalry would have ever come about in the first place?


l am polite to my guy friend...and they don't offer nor do l want sexual favors from them. l think my women friends are cool, too....again, no sexual favors. Dude, you just have a messed up head.
 Angel__Wings
Joined: 7/25/2009
Msg: 148
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 7:59:50 PM

So, what is it that you (as a woman) will do for me (as a mark of respect and love), that I won't do for you?


If you have never done these acts for a woman that does appreciate it then you will not be able to understand what you get in return. I have tried to explain it a few times and we must not be getting through to each other. You seem to be looking for particular acts she can do, thats not quite what it is. If the woman you are with likes this and wants it and you do it for her. Her return to you is going to be a deeper connection because you show gentlemanly qualities and show her a type of respect that not many men do now a days. So it is not an act per say it is the way she will end up feeling about you.

Like I have said over and over not all woman like it, so really it does not really mean anything to all of us just some of us.

Would you be willing to do this for your girlfriend if she liked it or would you ask her, whats in it for me?
 *mandrake*
Joined: 9/19/2006
Msg: 149
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 8:07:29 PM
Call it chivalry, or manners...but, in all honesty proper manners doesn't need or look for rewards. I must be old school in that area. I always open doors for people. I almost always help a lady on with her coat, pull out her chair. That's the way I was brought up.
 2Irish1
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 150
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 8:14:29 PM
Man...because we're men...well...it's just natural that we show curtesy towards women..but, in this one respect...I think that our ole school...tells us to be good to all people's...but, then I know that's sorta kina what ya meant.
 2Irish1
Joined: 9/1/2008
Msg: 152
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 8:28:47 PM

One man holds a door open for me and it is an act of kindness, another man does it and it is chivalrous. (And a third man does this in a way that is annoying ) What is the difference? Well, one man opens the door just because he got there first and he opens it and lets whoever he is with or is close to him through. Just like you would open a door for a male friend. The second man opens the door for me and you know he does so because he is responding to my femininity. There is a feeling that he is taking pleasure in my femininity. (And the third man opens the door to make a statement that he is a man, that he is doing what men are supposed to do and you are required to acknowledge his masculinity. There is a feeling of resentment towards females.)

I'm afraid that it is very subtle.


jaysus, now I'll be wondering wtf kind of man does she think I am....dayum, why'd ya have to burst my bubble???
 dwalker1728
Joined: 11/28/2009
Msg: 156
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 9:21:07 PM
Man, don't even remind me.

I used to be chivalrous. Keyword: used to be. Until one day I opened the door for someone unexpectedly and was met instead with a slap in the face by said woman. Then she responded "Demean me again, and next time I'll kick you in the ****s."

I got the message.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 158
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 10:00:54 PM

The reward can best be summed up in two words: blow jobs

Dayum, I was going to say the same thing = I just didn't have the balls LMAO
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 160
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 10:04:26 PM
Oh, is somebody looking for ...

some chivalry?
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 161
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 10:09:36 PM

I used to be chivalrous. Keyword: used to be. Until one day I opened the door for someone unexpectedly and was met instead with a slap in the face by said woman. Then she responded "Demean me again, and next time I'll kick you in the ****s."

I got the message.


What the heck is going on out there with women with this type of rudeness......Gawd I am ashamed to even be classified as part of the "female gender." How does a woman figure she is being demeaned by having a man open a door for her? Good thing, I wasn't there because I certainly would have given her a good "tongue lashing." Holy Crikey, to extend a simple courtesy and then be treated like that.
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 163
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 10:48:26 PM
Whenever I see a young man or woman do a kind gesture like open a door or help carry groceries...........I always think, yup their parents raised them with good manners.

I have had a few people in my life offer their help when they've seen me struggling with something. One of the kindest things was a man who worked for the gas company and came to do a meter reading from outside of my house. He saw me struggling to get some rather large items that I purchased up the hill to the front of my house and offered his assistance. Gawd, do you think he expected sex in return...........NO, he was just genuinely wanting to help. I phoned the gas company and told them what a wonderful employee and person they had working for them...........next time he came to do the meter reading, I gave him a small gift that I purchased in appreciation of his kind gesture. I have actually had many occasions where men have assisted me and I have assisted them and there was no expectation for sex.

I am going to bed now, this planet makes me feckin sick sometimes.
 Angel__Wings
Joined: 7/25/2009
Msg: 164
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 10:52:07 PM

No, chivalry is not a standard. It's optional. Some women like it, others do not, others don't care.


For those that like it, it's a standard. Why? Because if they give it a lot of weight, they won't date men who don't do it. This type of woman will place chivalrous expectations on men that they haven't even met yet.

The following could be seen as examples of things women will do for men.

1. Some women spend a lot of time dressing up for their men. Some men like this and feel it is feminine. Others think the time is annoying and wished she would hurry up already. Others don't care one way or the other.
2. Some women like to take care of a man. Make him dinner, wash his clothes, lay out clothes to wear, fuss with his hear, straighten his clothes, etc. Some men like this, others don't.


These are poor examples of what women do in return.

If you have never done these acts for a woman that does appreciate it then you will not be able to understand what you get in return. I have tried to explain it a few times and we must not be getting through to each other. You seem to be looking for particular acts she can do, thats not quite what it is.


Precisely. I asked for examples, but you can't give them. Why? Because it's a double standard. You can attempt to sugar coat it, but that won't change anything.

Would you be willing to do this for your girlfriend if she liked it or would you ask her, whats in it for me?


I will never be with a woman that doesn't offer the same that she receives. Period


Well there is no sense in even trying to explain it, you just don't get it. It is not like you "Have" to do it anyways so why are you getting into such a huff about it? For me with what I am feeling now with this new guy, have to admit I would be the one who knows she likes it a lot. For you, you can not see what your getting back so really it is a mute point to try to explain it over and over and over again. Woman are more emotional then men simple really.

No need to continue discussing it, your not picking up on what it does to a woman who loves it.
 mr.evil
Joined: 11/14/2009
Msg: 165
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/9/2009 11:29:51 PM
Oh angel why do you keep flogging your wings?

First off, it's moot not mute.

Next, that is why there are plenty of fish on POF, some will get it, some won't. Your right for you, teen is right for him.

Unfortunately for him and you, that will limit your catch. He won't get your kind and you won't get his. Although in the end, you will both be happier with the ones you DO get!!
 CJ8Rock
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 166
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/10/2009 12:29:29 AM
Read through quite a few of the posts, and can see a wide variety of points, and actually (refreshingly ?) most of them are good.
So, decided to throw my 2 cents in....

I do not open doors, offer help, or other such "chivalrous" acts because I expect any sort of response or reward. If the woman does say thank you, the acknowledgement is appreciated. If she chooses to do more than thank you, again, it is appreciated. It is after all *her* choice then.

I suppose some arm-chair therapists would have a field day with this - however, it is done solely because I expect better of me. I do not answer to the person(s) who might be the recipient of my actions every day - but I do answer to the face in the mirror, and I better get along with that person.

Now, to the woman who might slap me (WAY wrong answer there) or as has happened - one who venomously snaps at me "I am NOT helpless, I can open my OWN doors" - I just replied to her "My apologies for the mistake - I thought I was opening the door for a lady. "
and go on about my way. Am I about to change who I am because SHE didn't appreciate it ? Not likely, I do not see the reason to.
 CJ8Rock
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 167
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/10/2009 12:32:10 AM

The reward can best be summed up in two words: blow jobs


Well, would have to guess that is better than a slap in the face....
 Strings6
Joined: 7/14/2007
Msg: 168
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/10/2009 2:26:26 AM
interesting that there is no word for respect or courtesy from a woman to a man....doesn't exist.
 ItsMargo
Joined: 4/24/2007
Msg: 170
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/10/2009 5:23:48 AM

Now, to the woman who might slap me (WAY wrong answer there) or as has happened - one who venomously snaps at me "I am NOT helpless, I can open my OWN doors" - I just replied to her "My apologies for the mistake - I thought I was opening the door for a lady. "
and go on about my way. Am I about to change who I am because SHE didn't appreciate it ? Not likely, I do not see the reason to.

All joking about bj's aside (and I do hope some people recognize tongue in cheek when they read it), I've never understood some women's over-the-top rejection of a polite gesture. It's obvious she can open doors on her own steam, so helpless isn't the issue... perhaps graciousness and manners are.

By the same token, I've also never been able to get the woman who reaches a door first and stands there, waiting for her man to catch up and get the door for her.

As has been pointed out, chivalry is a set of codified rules for men and there isn't a specific set of behaviours for women. Other than, I suppose, being chaste. In modern times, one would hope that both men and women practice civility... and it is its own reward.
 browneyesboo
Joined: 5/19/2005
Msg: 171
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/10/2009 7:30:49 AM
Now, to the woman who might slap me (WAY wrong answer there) or as has happened - one who venomously snaps at me "I am NOT helpless, I can open my OWN doors" - I just replied to her "My apologies for the mistake - I thought I was opening the door for a lady. "
and go on about my way. Am I about to change who I am because SHE didn't appreciate it ? Not likely, I do not see the reason to.


I like this answer.
Too many people use the excuse one women did this, one women did that,
women back in the 60's did this and so I'm not going to be nice anymore.
It's a bunch of nimcompoopery. Either you're a nice person who has manners
and uses them whether or not others do or you aren't.
Personally I believe the "woman who didn't like the idea I opened the door for her
and gave me a hard time about it" is just an urban myth for many men. I think most
people (men or women) appreciate doors being opened for them, especially if
you're going in anyways.


 CheezyChick
Joined: 9/23/2009
Msg: 172
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/10/2009 8:13:52 AM

What's the reward for Chivalry?

I think the going rate is around 10 bucks, depending on the quality of the Hotel and how much baggage you have....

Society expected each man to aspire constantly to Chivalric Behavior; in return, they gave him an honorable place in the union of men...
—Arno Borst, Medieval Worlds
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 173
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/10/2009 8:15:38 AM
Eh, i've had it happen to me too. It's not an urban myth, probably around half a dozen times.

That being said, i'm not going to modify my character for one sour puss. The multitudes of others have expressed gratitude (although no blow jobs yet ) so I just write off the grouches for sake of the REGULAR people.

BTW, i hold the door for anyone, regardless of age or gender.
 ladyc4
Joined: 2/14/2006
Msg: 174
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/10/2009 8:24:39 AM
If women were not able to or chose not to ever give men sex, do you truly think the concept of chivalry would have ever come about in the first place?

Actually, "courtly love"...that is, putting women "on a pedestal" was one of the tenets of chivalry required of knights and the "nobility". By and large, all the reading and study I've done seems to indicate that the farther down the socioeconomic/class scale people were, the lower the pedestal women were on.
The ladies receiving the greatest degree of "courtly" and deferential treatment, were not likely to be handing out sexual favors very freely at all.
So if one were to transfer that concept to today, in order to obtain sex EASILY, you would have to seek out women who were of "lesser" quality. The smart, attractive, classy women,who are emotionally secure and have good level of self esteem, will STILL require that men show themselves to be "worthy." This is not to imply that she would be rude, unkind, disrespectful or dismissive of ANYBODY...but if you want to date her you better have a lot going for you in terms of character, ethics , and having your act together.
edit

interesting that there is no word for respect or courtesy from a woman to a man....doesn't exist.

Yeah there are. Grace. Class.
Cindy O
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