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 njbris
Joined: 10/17/2009
Msg: 279
What's the reward for Chivalry? Page 6 of 21    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21)
I find it amusing how some people in here are denying that chivalry is subservient behaviour towards the receiver. Especially when there is no equivalence that the giver gets in return.
 Tarah0128
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 281
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History
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 5:48:18 PM
Right on! Did she bow to you and lick your boots too? That's what I do when opening the door for either gender

I want them to know how good I am at being subservient and not that I just have good manners. If they don't thank me for my subservience, then I flip them off
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 282
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 6:03:00 PM
Well ladies & gents.....I'm back from my shopping trip to Home Depot........waiting like a fox, yes, yes like a fox with keen eyes and ears for the next hottie guy that needed a door opened for him. As he passed through the door........I followed, and smacked him in his cute butt, he stopped and turned around and of course I had to explain that I was just swishing away a spider that was hitching a ride on his cute butt.

Well to make a long story short, we had coffee at the in-house Harvey's at Home Depot, exchanged phone numbers and tentatively spoke about arranging a date. So there just be something to this female chivalry stuff.

Seems as though, I've had better luck at Home Depot than on POF today
 Tarah0128
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 283
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 6:13:28 PM
You subservient, you! Oh, the shame
 Tarah0128
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 285
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History
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 7:14:51 PM
I buy my own jewelry ~ I just want a hot guy to stand there and flex for me whilst I'm holding open the door for him to sashay through

 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 288
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 9:52:17 PM
Post #408.....
Your post gave me a headache and I don't have much understanding for what you are trying to say. It is so long-winded and confusing, would you care to condense it and give us the simple "chicken soup" version.
 Man_of_steele
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 289
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 9:56:16 PM
Women want a guy to be chivalrous, yet also wanted to be treated equally.

Ladies, you can either have special privilege, or equality. But you can't have both. The two are diametrically opposed.

The problem is, modern feminism has taught out young girls that they can have both. Or rather, that they DESERVE both, simply because of some undefined crimes of centuries gone men.

Double standard? Hypocrisy? You betta believe it.

Those who expect to be treated in a way they haven't earned don't deserve that which they expect. Those who strive to be the best possible person without expecting anything in return are treated better than they expect.
 Man_of_steele
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 290
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 9:58:16 PM
***Your post gave me a headache and I don't have much understanding for what you are trying to say. It is so long-winded and confusing, would you care to condense it and give us the simple "chicken soup" version.***

The only person you can blame for ignorance is yourself. Don't expect the world to bend to your every whim if you want to be treated equally to men.

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt.
 Man_of_steele
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 292
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 10:13:36 PM
***I don't slam my apartment door in case some people are working night shift and sleeping. Others slam every door in the building. What does this say about me? Am I a better person than everyone else?***

When it comes to being considerate of neighbors, yes, you are a better person. And you should feel good about yourself for that.

Anyways, you pretty much missed the point of my post, which means you are most likely a good hearted woman. You should also feel good about yourself for that too. If you had become defensive and pissy, I would have known for sure that you were the very type of woman the post was about.

Too bad you're a little to old for me. *winks*
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 293
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 10:23:16 PM

Better to keep your mouth shut and be thought of as a fool than to open it and remove all doubt


Right back at you bro

Chivalry died with the "Institution of Knighthood" and when the last dragon was slain, so if you wanna breathe fire, I got plenty of that.

Having good manners is not about the "equality of the genders"....it is about BALANCE between the genders, just as there is BALANCE in nature if humans didn't feck around so much with it. Having good manners is about respecting each other in spite of our weaknesses/strengths.

As is the case with helping senior citizens (male and/or female) shovel their walks in winter or lending a helping hand when needed. Assisting disabled men and women when needed, returning a lost dog or cat to it's owner, feeding and sheltering the homeless, etc, etc, etc.
 njbris
Joined: 10/17/2009
Msg: 294
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/12/2009 10:32:49 PM
Wild Heart

I think you may be missing the whole point to this thread

There is a difference between civility and chivalry

As I recall, Teenwolf33 explained it really well.

If you are the first one at the door (regardless of your gender), its nice to hold it open for the person behind you (regardless of their gender)

However, when a person is talking about having this treatment solely because of their gender , this is what bothers me and others. It’s a chauvinistic sense of entitlement.

As you were saying earlier which was this…


But when a man I am dating opens my car door for me, it makes me feel nice and like a lady and I don't think there is anything wrong with your mate making you feel that way.


But let’s switch this the other way around. Would it seem out of place and weird if a man said the same as you BUT expressed that it made him feel like a gentleman?

When it comes to this, why is this defined as “treating a female as a real woman” when this happens but it’s not defined as “treating a male as a real man” when it happens?

It’s not treating anyone as a "real woman" nor "real man" as neither gender is entitled to it or meant to have it in the way of showing significance of being treated as a real woman/man.
 Man_of_steele
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 300
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 12:08:07 AM
*starts clapping for curly324*

Finally, a woman who can use that pretty little head of hers!

That's it, I'm moving to Greece. These western cultures ****es and sleep in the grave they've dug for themselves.
 Tarah0128
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 301
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 12:34:06 AM

Ladies, you can either have special privilege, or equality. But you can't have both.


Yes we can ~ one just has to choose wisely. That's like saying you can't have your cake and eat it too. What friggin good is a cake if you can't eat it???


I'll consider it, but its going to cost you!


Nice!!! Name your poison ;)
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 302
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 12:39:07 AM
pro-filer.....

Oh yeah, that reminds me ... a law will be passed requiring that servers provide separate cheques; any guest caught trying to pay for someone of the other gender will be summarily executed. Paying for friends of the same gender is permitted.


You are hilarious pro-filer!!!
I think this would work very well.............men have demanded their rights and they shall have them by God. Further to pro-filer's declaration....any man caught opening a door for a woman and her children will be promptly executed. In addition, any woman expecting a door to be opened for her shall also be promptly executed. There will be no shifting of chairs, so a woman can be easily seated..........such infractions will be dealt with execution style and the cost of the bullet will be sent to your family. All men declare that showing any good-intentioned manners or thoughtful gestures towards women is a major, serious infraction on their rights and ALL men must obey or face execution. However, this declaration only applies to the women that a man might seek a sexual relationship with. Men may be still permitted to open doors for their mothers, aunts, grandmothers or sisters, but the aforementioned women should definately not expect this behavior from a man, as it is a very serious.........and I mean serious infraction on a man's rights.

There you go, now let me know how that works for yah! We can call it the pro-filer Plan B declaration of independence for the establishment of men's rights.
 Man_of_steele
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 303
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 12:49:43 AM
***Yes we can ~ one just has to choose wisely. That's like saying you can't have your cake and eat it too. What friggin good is a cake if you can't eat it???***

either your are joking, or you completely fail at simple logic.

You're saying that having special privilege above men is the same as having equality to men. That's a logical impossibility. It's like saying that "1" and "1+1" have the same value.

And people wonder why women can't seem to get ahead in business or politics...
 RazzleRoadRunner
Joined: 4/13/2007
Msg: 304
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 12:51:09 AM
Problem solved and case closed in favor of a man's right to not be chivalrous or courteous in any way towards women.

Court adjourned

:modhammer:
 Man_of_steele
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 305
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 12:54:39 AM
Just so you know, being coy doesn't lend credence to anything other than your entitled mentality. This thread has absolutely nothing to do with men not wanting to be chivalrous. And if you can't see that, you yourself are part of the problem.
 njbris
Joined: 10/17/2009
Msg: 306
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 1:18:48 AM

Your problem, along with that of certain others on this thread, is all that BS about 'entitlement', none of this is about entitlement.
It's about differences in natures (female and male) of people. And that each 'nature' elicits different behaviours. We tend to be kinder and more considerate towards women quite naturally. Chivalry is an extension of that.
You're going to keep spinning in circles with modern-sounding theories about equality but which have nothing to do with basic realities, if you never get this.

This idea that chivalry (the kind that is extended to ladies) is somehow unfair or discriminating towards men, is off base.
Equality means being treated with the same dignity and volume of opportunities. But each gender will privilege certain things over others, and call upon themselves different responses.
We can't all be the same

Chivalry isn't especially privileging to women. Just fine. But some people cry inequality


TryinAgain46 ...you will have to "try again" in attempting to think about this in a logical way. Please explain in logical detail how its not a sense of entitlement?

This is not a problem or issue that makes me in the wrong. Telling some one that they have a problem when their stance is based on equality is ridiculous.

It's also ridiculous to claim that expecting chivalry is not about having a sense of entitlement. Do women need chivalry? Are women going to stop breathing if they don’t receive chivalry on a date? Are women disabled? If the answer is "no" to all, this is a sense of entitlement as its some thing that is not needed. There is no way around it!

It’s not a good enough excuse of having to give chivalry to women all because women want it. It’s just as bad as a man thinking that women have to give him sex on a first date all because he simply wants it. And him thinking that if a woman doesn't give it to him, it means she is not good enough.

Why is it chauvinism one way as for the example I gave about a man feeling entitled to sex but its not chauvinism the other way when its a woman feeling entitled to chivalry?

Female entitlement = acceptable (a man is disrespectful if he doesn't give it)
Male entitlement = chauvinism (a man is disrespectful if he expects it)


Tarah0128


Yes we can ~ one just has to choose wisely. That's like saying you can't have your cake and eat it too. What friggin good is a cake if you can't eat it???


This doesn’t even make friggin sense.
 Man_of_steele
Joined: 12/6/2009
Msg: 310
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 3:42:55 AM
njbris, don't even bother. Trying to use logic in a conversation with women is like trying to teach a kid with no legs how to ski. They run on emotion and feelings, and have no concept of cause and effect, logic, or reason.

The few women who appear logical are simply less emotional. And if you think you've found a woman with true logical reasoning abilities, it's pretty easy to test: Make her angry, and see if she still argues with reason and logic. If she does, buy her a diamond. Seriously.

EDIT: For proof of my point, see the below post.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 313
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 5:55:27 AM
The idea of chivalry extends well beyond the door being opened or who walks on what side of the road. In a world of equality, gender should not be a determining factor for ether of those examples, but for some it is. Why chivalry becomes such an outdated and bad thing is that often time it extends far beyond things like a door being opened. Women use this to their advantage all the time. Look at how difficult it is for a father to win during a custody fight. The women turns on the water works and it does not matter if she is not the best parent to look after the kids because for some chivalry dictates that women are initialed to certain things. There are lots of other examples of how this spills over. Lots of women want their cake and to eat it too. This is not right and this is why the idea of chivalry is a outdated and extremely toxic mentality. If you can not see the possible negative and unfair implications behind this it'd because your really slow or you like the unfair and negative implications.
 english lass
Joined: 11/14/2007
Msg: 318
What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 8:55:39 AM

It's also ridiculous to claim that expecting chivalry is not about having a sense of entitlement. Do women need chivalry? Are women going to stop breathing if they don’t receive chivalry on a date? Are women disabled? If the answer is "no" to all, this is a sense of entitlement as its some thing that is not needed. There is no way around it!


I agree that "expecting" something does infer feelings of entitlement... however, i disagree that just because something is unneeded but is still desired, that it then automatically becomes a matter of feeling entitled to it

i think that the majority of the women are not saying that they do 'expect' it, i think many are saying that they appreciate it, when it's offered

just like good manners, respect and kindness are also appreciated most of the time, by either gender

wishing for certain qualities/attributes/actions is not the same as feeling 'entitled' to them - it's simply an appreciation when they exist and an enjoyment of being with a person who acts/is that way
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 321
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 9:42:59 AM
"Child custody is different. Historically, children were considered to be property of the man, and therefore he was the one who was entitled to custody:"
"So no, a maternal preference by the system for child custody hasn't much to do with chivalry. Just the opposite, in fact - the further we've gotten from chivalry, the less that code has influenced who gets the kids. "
Wrong:
It is all how you look at it historically. See my friend the lost costudy to a crazy ex, because she had the milk bags really does not care how it was done in Rome! He does care how it is done today.How chivarly is done today does in fact give women the upper hand and this is a fact. Look at the last 50 years and you will see this holds true. At least in child cosudy fights, but it is bigger then that. It is how chivalry is done today that matters and how it is done today gives more to one gender then to the other and that is not equality. Men take it up the ass in court in part because of this. If you do not think the water works play a major roll when a women turns them on you would be missing the mark. It is a fact it does play a roll and this is part of the modern view of chivalry. If a man tries the water works well forget about it lol.
 Tarah0128
Joined: 2/25/2009
Msg: 322
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 9:56:23 AM

This doesn’t even make friggin sense


Duh! that's what I'm saying ~ you can be with a man who's chivalrous but doesn't treat you like a second class citizen

All that means to me is that he's respectful ~ doesn't name call, opens doors, does favors like changing oil in your car(if he's the type that does things like that} I'm just giving examples. It's reciprocal. I give back the same respect and do his laundry, ironing... I like it like that. But that's within a relationship, naturally. I'm a polite woamn so bring with a polite man just makes sense
 Streetsvilleguy
Joined: 7/28/2007
Msg: 324
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 10:58:17 AM
The acts of chivalry are much less about immediate rewards, but more about self respect and my responsibility and duty as a man. My parents and grand-parents imposed behaviours and a lifestyle that served them well, and has served myself well. Opening doors, etc. etc. etc. are done simply because that is my job . I could no sooner allow a woman to let herself into my car, or her to carry bags, or her to walk on the street side of a sidewalk or a hundred other things than I could leave the house with only one shoe on. I impose my values on my nephews and friends kids and when they ask why, or whats in it for them I simply say that you do it because it's their place to do it. You do it because others have always done it and now its their turn...and the world is a better place because they do it. If it is appreciated by others, great. If not , oh well, too bad for those folks. They will , and have learned that doing the right thing in all aspects of life is reward enough. Looking in the mirror each morning and seeing someone that you respect is the reward for good manners, chivalry, defending/standing up others when needed. Leading by example is all you really have to do...they pick up the subtle reward aspect of their actions soon enough. I'm no saint and certainly capable of being an ***hole, but what has been described as the Boy Scout side of me, is now an engrained part of my personality. I sound possibly like an old fart, but when I observe my friends teenagers, I fear that the modern way of child rearing hasn't really worked as well as was hoped for. That perhaps a lot more focussing on work ethics,good manners, consideration of others, knowing your place in the pack, discipline,appreciating what you have, the golden rule, and yes , chivalry, would have served their upbringing better. Wow...sounds like a rant now doesn't it.
 Cynderella
Joined: 3/8/2007
Msg: 325
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What's the reward for Chivalry?
Posted: 12/13/2009 1:35:35 PM
My undying Love, my highest respect, my heart and soul...

Tee Hee and I will kiss all his BOO-BOO's better...Tee Hee

BRING IT ON!
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