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 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 226
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?Page 10 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
Yes that would be nice, but I would think, that men, knowing that they have no post-conception choices because of the way biology works

Sure they do. It's called "disappearing." It's not exactly the most admirable choice, but it happens all the time. Even for the dudes that are paying like $200-$250 a month in child support, they're doing what is legally required of them and still pretty much getting off easy. $43,000-$54,000 over the course of 18 years really isn't that much.


I dont do anything about them.

I'm talking about people in general, not you specifically. Or is this just one of those "sidestep the question" moments?


What brand & dosage would you suggest?

Kind of a dumb idea to just ask some random person what medication you should take. I'm not an OBGYN, and I don't know your medical background. I don't even know why you asked the question to begin with.


And choosing female partners wisely.

That kind of goes without saying. However, when I mention my particular methods of woman-choosing, I get ridiculed for it. I'm sure I'm in the extreme minority in the fact that I address such things even before getting naked. But I guess even talking about sex with your partner is too taboo despite the fact that you're about to have sex with each other...

*facepalm*
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 227
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 9:47:14 PM
PS.. I didn't ridicule you.. I ridiculed the women who went ahead and slept with you anyway after you said you wouldn't stick around. I did say that you perpetuate the problem if you do in fact participate in a pregnancy and then run from it. Only I said it with other words. That's not ridicule.. it's a fact. I think it's great you say that so you can walk away if they don't give you the answer you want. If that's truly how it goes down. But your whole attitude on single moms in particular and the whole responsibility thing.. is totally off base.. leaves a lot to be desired.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 228
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/12/2012 1:51:46 AM

PS.. I didn't ridicule you..

Really? Because post number 414 says differently.



"I will do the absolute minimum that is legally required of me to raise that child. He/she would be lucky to get an annual phone call from me on birthdays/holidays."

gee..you're a winner. One step above prom mom anyway..


That in and of itself makes me question what posts you're looking at that you are considered "bashing" when you completely disregard your own posts.



I did say that you perpetuate the problem if you do in fact participate in a pregnancy and then run from it.

I think the real problem would be that if a woman were to acknowledge what I said, and decided to have the child anyway in the even of a mishap. But it seems like some people have zero faith in what others say anymore and they
force themselves to learn the hard way. It's like the "oops, well I'm keeping it" women that are talking to their boyfriends/husbands that they KNEW didn't want kids [yet]. Yeah, that's a great foundation for starting a family. Things like this are why the marriage rate has been on a steady decline, and the divorce rate has been on the rise.


I ridiculed the women who went ahead and slept with you anyway after you said you wouldn't stick around.

You realize that this is all assuming that they said "no" to the original question of "would you have it." If they wouldn't have the baby anyway, then it doesn't matter. I would -like- to think that my partner has enough integrity to do what they said they would do if the situation comes up. If they can't for one reason or another, I'm going to at least do what I said what I was going to do. YOUR attitude implies that women should not be held accountable for what they say. Of course, we already live in a society that allows for that, so I guess it's really no surprise.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 229
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/12/2012 6:07:42 AM
Has been around a while and is known for his misogynist and misopedist tendencies, which, surprisingly, don't stop him from wanting to have unprotected heterosexual relations.

Just because I feel like men are continually marginalized through pretty much every faucet of society, it doesn't mean that I hate women. I can't think of anything better to have sex with

And where did I ever say anything about not using condoms? I do remember saying this though:


How hard is it for a woman to say, "put on a condom or get out?"

Yeah, that doesn't condone condom use at all.

How about this?

I guess you want to completely ignore the fact that condoms are the most unreliable forms of contraception. Obviously it's better to use them than not...

That probably doesn't count either.




it would behoove the man to use a condom as well

I'm pretty sure that everyone is on the same page with condoms.

How about that?

Misopedist, really? I guess working in the childcare department of the YMCA for almost a year before enlisting is evidence to that. Moreover, I continually reiterate that women should be doing a better job of choosing when it comes to their male partners as well as the timing of their choice to procreate. You know, so they can actually be together (or at least at least try; divorce is pretty popular these days) instead of having yet another pair of single parents in the ranks and yet another child being cheated. It still stands that having both mom and dad is "in the best interest of the child" (assuming that they can get along together) despite all of the literature that has come out in recent years that tries to empower women and marginalize men by saying that children don't need their fathers around and that single mothers by choice is the new "in" thing. Women can be great mothers, but they can't be great fathers.

And there is plenty of ridicule for deadbeat losers, but nothing seems to be done about the cycle continuing. I would -like- to think that actually discussing a family, maybe even seeing a family/career/financial councilor, would be a smart thing to do before having children. As much as people love to spew all their rhetoric in regard to childbirth and child rearing, I would ASSume that they would want to do it under their conditions. However, the actual trend still seems to be quite the contrary.




So don't waste your words away, your point is made.

At least it was made in the portion of the female camp where readers like to ignore posts that disprove the points they are trying to make.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 230
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/12/2012 10:50:44 AM
You cared for other peoples children?!?!

I hope you were not cruel to the children that had single parents.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 231
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/12/2012 11:12:17 AM

Sure they do. It's called "disappearing." It's not exactly the most admirable choice, but it happens all the time. Even for the dudes that are paying like $200-$250 a month in child support, they're doing what is legally required of them and still pretty much getting off easy. $43,000-$54,000 over the course of 18 years really isn't that much.




Thats what i said. A man can not be forced to be a father. The most the law can do to a parent who does not want to parent is tell them to pay a little chump change for the child. 250 in support is a drop in the bucket, i spend more than that on a weekend Disney trip or a new set of school clothes, my electric bill in the summer runs about that.
Even if paying some little child support check, nobody can be forced to parent. Not a woman, not a man. A woman can abort, a man can walk away & send a little change each month, there is no forcing of anything.


I'm talking about people in general, not you specifically. Or is this just one of those "sidestep the question" moments?



Then why did you ask? I dont have the answer to the worlds problems. All i can do is ensure MY children are well cared for.



Kind of a dumb idea to just ask some random person what medication you should take. I'm not an OBGYN, and I don't know your medical background. I don't even know why you asked the question to begin with.


because you seemed to be an expert in womens birth control methods.




That kind of goes without saying. However, when I mention my particular methods of woman-choosing, I get ridiculed for it. I'm sure I'm in the extreme minority in the fact that I address such things even before getting naked. But I guess even talking about sex with your partner is too taboo despite the fact that you're about to have sex with each other...


Who said it is tabboo, at least you are up-front with these women, but if God Forbid you did end up somehow procreating, i can not fathom how you would walk away from your own flesh & blood, permanently, not even a call here & there, even if someone else is the primary caretaker, kids are not garbage to be cast aside. I truly hope you takde Capitano's suggestion of having a vasectomy & freezing some sperm in case you ever do want a child in the far future, hopefully nothing will ever happen to you if you do have kids, thus leaving your own partner as a single parent.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 232
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/13/2012 1:05:37 AM

Then why did you ask? I dont have the answer to the worlds problems. All i can do is ensure MY children are well cared for.

*sigh* Nevermind


because you seemed to be an expert in womens birth control methods.

Even if I was, a diagnostic would still have to be run in order to come to a conclusion. Simply saying "these ones don't work for me" isn't good enough.



You cared for other peoples children?!?!

I hope you were not cruel to the children that had single parents.


Being cruel to children isn't exactly a good way to keep your job. If I were to do anything, I would give the parents a piece of my mind, but again, that's not exactly a good way to keep your job.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 233
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/13/2012 10:34:16 AM
Give them a piece of your mind for what? For being single? For being divorced, abandoned, or widowed?
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 234
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/14/2012 6:30:42 AM

Give them a piece of your mind for what? For being single? For being divorced, abandoned, or widowed?

Yes yes, we know that ALL single mothers are victims.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 235
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/15/2012 1:27:59 PM

Yes yes, we know that ALL single mothers are victims.


How do single Moms that have been divorced, abandoned, or widowed come off as victims?
Do you really think that women who have been through traumatic experiences, & are trying to stay strong & raise their families need people flinging crap at them?

Why do you care so much about them to began with? I truly dont get that? These women have gone through experiences that you do not relate to nor ever will hopefully, nor do you relate to the love one has for a child/ren, to you we are no better than the roaches in your bathroom that laid eggs & had baby roaches (i think it wad you who said that, if not turbo or church or smilyrock). For someone that has never been widowed, divorced, or left by a partner, nor ever felt the love & bonding that (most) parents towards a child, you sure seem to be a bit over-interested in single parents.
Imagine how a woman who just freshly lost a spouse, or just barely got a divorce or walked out on would feel if she encountered you. What if your own Mother became a widow or divorcee, or a sister/family member or a female friend you care about?
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 236
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/15/2012 1:50:21 PM

Why do you care so much about them to began with?

Because they are the ones raising the children that are supposed to be our future.


Do you really think that women who have been through traumatic experiences, & are trying to stay strong & raise their families need people flinging crap at them?

You say that like these women are among the majority.
1. If they were abandoned, then they obviously chose losers to be father figures.
2. 70% of divorces are initiated by women. And how many women out there refuse to give dads access to their children?


to you we are no better than the roaches in your bathroom that laid eggs & had baby roaches

I was putting into perspective how much of a "blessing" having children is. Like I said before, there are 6.2 billion blessings on this planet. It's not all that special.



Imagine how a woman who just freshly lost a spouse, or just barely got a divorce or walked out on would feel if she encountered you.

I'm not sure how most of the rhetoric you're trying to shove down my throat has to do with "running at the first sign of pregnancy."
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 237
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/15/2012 3:17:09 PM

Because they are the ones raising the children that are supposed to be our future.


And you are a perfect person who has the almighty power of knowing who & what is good for the future?
Are you Ghandi or Jesus or something?

There are non single parents that are pretty damn scary, you do know that right?
My boyfriends brother; 5 kids, filthy house full of cat urine & feces & roaches, too many people in one small house, cant afford proper clothing for those kids, dont have the income to support 5 kids, maybe 1 but certainly not 5, would starve if it were not for foodstamps, Dad spends all the money that could be going towards those kids at the bar next door, Mom just screams & curses at the kids all day, they complain about having so many kids but dont give any thought to prevention, neither have any education, all the kids teeth are rotting out of their heads, (she thought she might have been pregnant with #6 a while back)......but since they are not single parents they are totally awesome........lol.

Tina Yates was married, awesome Mother right?!

And i have known parents that were single that were idiots as well, but i judge them as idiots because, they are idiots, not because they have children or their marital status.


You say that like these women are among the majority.
1. If they were abandoned, then they obviously chose losers to be father figures.
2. 70% of divorces are initiated by women. And how many women out there refuse to give dads access to their children?


I would think that divorcees, widows, & women who have been walked out on do make up the majority of single mommies .
And.............So all the single Dads on here then, obviously chose piss poor women to procreate with, but you dont insult them so much. Just because a woman initiates a divorce does not mean it hurts any less. It may simply mean she reached her breaking point from whatever was going on the marriage.

I dont know how many women refuse Dads access to their children, never been in that boat. Make a thread and ask maybe?



I was putting into perspective how much of a "blessing" having children is. Like I said before, there are 6.2 billion blessings on this planet. It's not all that special.


It is that special. Can you imagine a parent saying "meh, my kids arent anything special, there so many of em out there". I would be fearful of of a parent with that mindset raising a child! The love that a parent feels for a child, is the most amazing things that can be experienced. The joy of having your own family is wondrous, to people who value that sort of thing. You have no experience on it, so, what do you care? Why are you so adamant that parents should not feel anything special towards their children? The love is one of the most intense forms of love that exists.
 diego_beltran
Joined: 6/2/2011
Msg: 238
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/15/2012 3:45:39 PM
Only boys runaway from a woman who is pregnant. Real men, take with a smile and say hey thats wonderful. I got two baby mamas, and I was cool with it. It just makes you a man by being there for your kids. Lets remember, our kids are a blessing.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 239
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/15/2012 7:32:15 PM
And you are a perfect person who has the almighty power of knowing who & what is good for the future?

No, but just like you, I am allowed to have an opinion.



There are non single parents that are pretty damn scary, you do know that right?

How about we try less extreme scenarios and assume that all other things being equal.


So all the single Dads on here then, obviously chose piss poor women to procreate with, but you dont insult them so much.

How about this: to make yourself feel better, take every post I've made and assume that it's about dad's too.
Though, statistically, children do better with their dads than their moms, but people like to ignore those numbers, especially with this feminist strive to make dads seem more and more dispensable.


Make a thread and ask maybe?

I'm sure majority the mother hens on these forums will chime in saying that the never denied access, or they feel completely justified. You can feel free if you want to.


I would be fearful of of a parent with that mindset raising a child!

Sure. However, I don't think someone should expect other people to have empathy for YOUR child(ren). It's just like when dating single parents. That's YOUR kid, that YOU love. It's just another random kid to the person that's trying to date you.


The love that a parent feels for a child, is the most amazing things that can be experienced. The joy of having your own family is wondrous, to people who value that sort of thing.....The love is one of the most intense forms of love that exists.

Emphasis on "to people who value that sort of thing." Rhetoric...
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 240
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/15/2012 8:08:46 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
However, I don't think someone should expect other people to have empathy for YOUR child(ren). It's just like when dating single parents. That's YOUR kid, that YOU love. It's just another random kid to the person that's trying to date you.
~~~~~~~~~~~
This is simply your opinion and your outlook and thankfully not shared by the majority. At least not that i have encountered anywhere in the real world

~~~~~~
"to people who value that sort of thing." Rhetoric...
~~~~~
I hope you never have kids.. ever.. even when you are one of the people who you would deem worthy of having kids.

~~~~~
Only boys runaway from a woman who is pregnant. Real men, take with a smile and say hey thats wonderful.
~~~~
Agreed
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 241
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/15/2012 8:38:43 PM

I hope you never have kids.. ever.. even when you are one of the people who you would deem worthy of having kids.

QueenBeeSweetness tells the story of her boyfriends brother, and brings up Tina Yates, and for some reason I am the threat. Lolz


At least not that i have encountered anywhere in the real world

I see that particular paradigm starting to shift a lot.

http://forums.plentyoffish.com/datingPosts7180267.aspx

the responses to this thread give a lot of evidence to that. And, it's also one of those things that people often hold their tongues when they're in the presence of other people. I was actually watching a video where Adam Sandler was talking about how an interviewer was very nice and gracious when they went into his home and talked to him, but a couple weeks later, they wrote an article about him where they said a lot of nasty stuff about him.
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 242
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/15/2012 8:55:26 PM
Perhaps i just choose better people then others...

oh and citing another pof forum is hardly proof for anything..

and yea.. your attitude is the threat.. the attitude of kids are not blessing and there are too many of them etc.. exuding that attitude, your kids will know and your kids will resent it and will end up being the drain on society you blame others kids of being. especially if your kids aren't planned.. One day your eyes will open.. Hopefully not too late.

and comparing what a journalist does to a celebrity is not indicative what goes on between normal people. If someone wants to go home and talk crap about me, i wouldn't associate with them anyway, people are never as good at hiding their prejudices as they think they are. Most people accept others for who they are and judge them based on who they are, not what group they perceive me to be in.
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 243
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/16/2012 2:44:17 AM

Perhaps i just choose better people then others...

Or perhaps you're not around when the people you choose are saying certain things. That whole "talking behind your back" thing.


oh and citing another pof forum is hardly proof for anything..

I never said it was proof, I said it was evidence. I mean, all you have to do is Google search "dating single mothers," and the general tone of the articles you will find is pretty negative, many of which being to just avoid the whole situation. Again, YOU may love your kid(s), but to other people they're just random children.




your attitude is the threat.. the attitude of kids are not blessing and there are too many of them etc.

I guess any atheist would be a threat seeing how "blessing" is a religious connotation.


your kids will know and your kids will resent it and will end up being the drain on society you blame others kids of being.

Where do you get this stuff? All the kids would know is if their parents love them and treat them well. You don't have to think of your kids as a blessing to do all of that.


especially if your kids aren't planned.. One day your eyes will open.. Hopefully not too late.

My eyes are wide open. I'm not the one that likes to pat people on the back for making bad choices in life and then trying to pick themselves up from said choices. I like to acknowledge those who continually make good choices.


and comparing what a journalist does to a celebrity is not indicative what goes on between normal people

It happens all the time, you just choose to ignore it. Someone even posted a thread on here asking "why women are so mean to each other." And just because they're not your friends, doesn't mean that you're not going to associate with them. They could very well be coworkers or teachers or any other avenue of interpersonal relationships.


Most people accept others for who they are and judge them based on who they are, not what group they perceive me to be in.

Yeah, tell that to someone who's a politician or in the military. Or better yet, tell that to a feminist.
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 244
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/16/2012 9:28:44 AM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm not the one that likes to pat people on the back for making bad choices in life and then trying to pick themselves up from said choices. I like to acknowledge those who continually make good choices.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

One "bad" decision and we're bad people for life who don't deserve to have their accomplishments acknowledged??.. You do have a lot to learn. With that mentality anyone who has a failed marriage, gotten fired, lost their house or car or retirement saving, etc...for any reason has made a bad choice and fall into the you're not a good person category.. (after all they chose that job and did whatever it was that got them fired, they couldn't keep their house or their car due to their inability to pay for it (regardless of the reason right???), the stock market crashed, but I guess they should have picked better stocks to invest in?? They shouldn't have gotten married in the first place??)

Ya know.. the cadets from the air force academy here just graduated and they are faced with the very real possibility of being unemployed. The military tightened the belt and aren't just accepting anyone.. getting into the military is going to be hard.. they made the decision to go to military school and thought their future was secured.. but it's not..
bad decision??? So now they don't deserve to ever have a pat on their back, if they claw their way out of it and manage to find work elsewhere?? Doubtful, but according to your statement that's how it is..

I'd say the person who doesn't wallow in their choices and doe pick themselves up and make themselves better would be deserving of a pat on the back as well.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
All the kids would know is if their parents love them and treat them well.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Go ahead.. ask any kid who knows their parents didn't want them when they were born.. It's devastating.. even if both parents are there supporting the kid. In your own posts.. you wouldn't be there for the kids.. so they wouldn't "know" you love them and you wouldn't be viewed as treating them well. A check that arrives once or twice a week will not make that better in a kids eyes..

~~~~~~~~~
doesn't mean that you're not going to associate with them
~~~~~~~~~
Duh.. but if i cared what every single person out there things of me i'd be miserable. I don't bad mouth people. Very select few even deserve the time and effort of bad mouthing them. Those few are usually those who have hurt me or my family in a very real way and even then it's more of a discussion of what to do to help the situation then anything else. but yep two of my cousins and the sperm donor are pieces of crap.. and they know full well I think that of them as I've told them so. Most others aren't worth the effort for me to worry about. I believe most other mature grown ups feel the same way. Now if we're talking immature and/or young, then yes it happens.. but much less so as you get older.

~~~~~~~~~
Where do you get this stuff?
~~~~~~~~
Could ask you the same thing.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 245
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/16/2012 11:38:16 AM


No, they don´t.
Widows make only 1% of single mothers - out of 11.5 millions.
Divorcees/separated make only 43.7% of single mothers.
On the other hand, if 70% of women are the ones who initiated divorces -for whatever the reasons- is hard to consider them as minority who have been walked out on.


According to Ann Coulter, who tends to vilify single Mothers, widowed Mothers make up 6.5% of Single Parents, and coupled with her number of 37.8% of Mothers who are divorced or seperated, that comes out to a higher percentage of the 40% of Mothers who gave birth completely out of wedlock. Of course, that fails to take into account the % of never married Mothers who were in long term relationships or common-law type-ish relationships. I really doubt the vast majority of single Mothers were just running around town sack-chasing.



What makes "special" to be like others 6.2 billion alike.
George Carlin- children are special (youtube 3 min segment) has more logic to me.


Do you quote that when your children snuggle up to you & kiss your face & tell you "daddy i love you so much"???
Do you really think children should not feel special to their family, nor their family feel that they are special?
Did your own other say "ya aint crap" to you when you were a kid?
When my kids snuggle up to me, I couldnt guive a crap about the other 6.2 billion people in the world, the most special people in the world in my eyes, is right there in my arms & my heart.

While I may not feel that same feeling towards everyone else's kids, i certainly recognize that they are the delight of someone else's life & world, & thus, special, even if not to me.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 246
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/16/2012 8:13:31 PM

Emphasis on "to people who value that sort of thing."


Since it seems YOU don't value that sort of thing, why the hell do you waste so much time on the single parents forums?
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 247
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/16/2012 9:19:40 PM

doesn't mean that you're not going to associate with them
~~~~~~~~~
Duh..

Good. So we're on the same page and you just disproved yourself with your own post.



One "bad" decision and we're bad people for life who don't deserve to have their accomplishments acknowledged??

Well..."one bad decision" as had people get awarded with the death penalty. But obviously that has to do with the severity of said decision. No, it doesn't make you a bad person. I never said nor implied that. I don't think that a series of good decisions that were probably only made as a result of making that bad decision is all that admirable.



Go ahead.. ask any kid who knows their parents didn't want them when they were born..

I'm sure it -is- devastating. I'm also pretty sure that the mass majority parents that feel that way aren't going to openly discuss it with their kids.


Since it seems YOU don't value that sort of thing, why the hell do you waste so much time on the single parents forums?


Probably for the same reason(s) that people waste so much time in any of these forums.
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 248
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/16/2012 10:00:20 PM
I forgot the point?? I disproved what? that some people talk behind others back and aren't a nice as they portray themselves to be? I never said otherwise. I said most grown up mature people don't have time to bother with that kind of thing unless it's something that directly affects them.
~~~~~~
openly discuss it with their kids
~~~~~~
I would hope not! But like I said.. kids just know. not matter how well you take care of them.. they know. If you really feel that way.. you can't hide it.

~~~~~
I don't think that a series of good decisions that were probably only made as a result of making that bad decision is all that admirable.
~~~~~
You assume a lot and often.

Gonna have to agree to disagree.. until you hit your own roadblocks in life and detours in life and have to make lemonade..



To all the single parents out there making it work. GOOD JOB! Keep it up! You all do deserve a pat on the back, even through none of us ask for one or want one.
 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 249
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/17/2012 4:41:35 AM
Why Should a Man Bear Responsibility
for a Woman who Decides to have a Baby?

Are women responsible for anything that they do?

Isn't it incredible that when it comes to having a baby, the feminist propaganda machine always tries to make us believe that the man is responsible for such an event, when, in fact, he has very little to do with it?

How many times do we hear the politically-correct complaining about young boys who go around impregnating girls and then abandoning them, as if, somehow, the boys have any control over what the girls' biological outcomes will be?

It is females who are in control of their pregnancies. And they have total control.

Females have ready access to all forms of contraception. They can take the contraceptive pill. They can take the morning-after pill. They can don the diaphragm. They can insist on condoms. They can use spermicide. They can have abortions. And they can refrain from having sex.

To prevent an unwanted baby being born, women can do something before sex, during sex and after sex.

To prevent an unwanted baby being born, women can do something before sex, during sex and after sex.

They are also in control of all areas to do with giving birth - physically, chemically, biologically, psychologically, socially, legally and medically.

In the west today, no man can force a woman to have a baby. It is entirely her choice. So why do our politicians and the media continue to blame men (and with such vitriol) for unwanted or undesirable pregnancies? The answer is, of course, very simple. It is the vindictive, prejudicial rhetoric of feminism which always blocks any attempts to make women responsible for anything.

Unfortunately, promoting this politically-correct nonsense takes away responsibility from the very group of people - women - who have the wherewithal to prevent these unwanted events. It allows them to say, 'It's not my fault'.

I don't know how many times I have seen chat shows wherein, for example, women with seven or eight children (from two, three or four different men) complain about how badly the state looks after them. And the audience is invariably directed to shift the blame for this situation on to the 'reckless' men who have impregnated them.

It never seems to dawn on this feminist-indoctrinated society that such women have total responsibility for having children. No-one can force them to have children.

women never need to consider their own responsibility

No wonder, therefore, that such women never need to consider their own responsibility and are quite happy for everyone else to pay for their children, and for the problems that, statistically speaking, these children are likely to cause, for decades to come.

Until we remove the deceptions and the deceits of feminist doctrine from our society, and start to make women responsible for their actions, we do not really have much hope of solving anything.

If a woman becomes pregnant then there is nothing that the man can do to alter the future course of events. This future is entirely up to her.

And this continual stirring up of hatred towards men by the media by blaming them for events over which they have no control whatsoever is outrageous.

Trisha, one of the trashiest chat programmes on TV, consistently draws its viewers by verbally spanking working-class boys and blaming them for the ills of all of society.

'He Got Four Of Us Pregnant'

For example, a recent edition of the programme had the heading, 'He Got Four Of Us Pregnant'.

Jason, apparently, has managed to impregnate four, and possibly five, women. Two babies have already been born and two are on the way.

Jason protests that he is only doing what comes naturally by screwing around, but the mostly female audience rages into him. "He should keep his zipper closed," says one. "I've got two bricks in my garden," says the other with venom in her voice.

It does not cross the minds of these feckless women that any of Jason's 'victims' (because this is how they are portrayed) had anything to do with it at all! They bear no responsibility at all.

And this is what we do. We remove all responsibility from women and then provide them with free apartments to aid them in the process of single-motherhood and the production of hordes of ill-disciplined children.

My hostility goes out not to them, however. The problems arise from the way that these women have been brought up thanks to feminist ideology and political-correctness. After all, who can blame these women? Why should they opt for hours every day in poorly paid jobs when they can have children and homes provided completely free of charge?

How can anyone be surprised that the numbers keep growing when feminists and trashy programmes keep endorsing their lifestyles?

It must be obvious even to the most vacuous of TV personalities that these programmes bring about numerous social problems.

Jason will shortly have four children on this planet, with four single women raising them on their own.

You will pay for all of this; their education, their health, their homes, and all the trouble that the children will probably cause in the future.

Women are responsible for nothing. 'He did it.'

'He Got Four Of Us Pregnant', says it all, doesn't it? Women are responsible for nothing. 'He did it.'

What is infuriating is that the programme-makers get fat on the advertising proceeds of this trash. And I am sure that Trisha herself makes tens of thousands, if not hundreds of them.

The boys of single mothers do not get to smash her windows or to intimidate her if she goes out in the evening.

But it isn't just trash like the Trisha programme that spreads this ridiculous politically-correct ideology throughout the nation. We see this happening even on programmes like BBC's Question Time.

Some of you might recall a recent incident where a seventeen year old girl had a baby by a thirteen year old boy. Of course, this is an illegal act and would have been classed as something akin to rape had their ages been reversed. But only boys are responsible for anything, remember that.

This girl, apparently, bore no responsibility, and so she was not punished in any way. If the ages had been reversed, he would have been in serious trouble.

Here is how the political editor of the Spectator, Bruce Anderson, started his response to this matter. "The fact that this boy got this seventeen year old pregnant ..."

Do you see? It's embedded in the language.

Do you see? It's embedded in the language.

This boy, this child in fact, 'got' her pregnant. She is seen as having no responsibility at all, even though he is a child. But it is his fault. He is a male and, therefore, he is responsible.

Indeed, politicians would also make this boy financially responsible for the child (e.g. see MPs would hold 12 year old boys financially responsible for pregnancies.)

Feminism is a hateful and vindictive ideology that has no valid concepts of equality or justice.

Women are in total control of their pregnancies. Forty years ago this was not the case. A woman had little choice. If she became pregnant then it was right that the man shouldered 50% of the responsibility. And in other parts of the world the same is true today. But western women nowadays have 100% control over their pregnancies.

Women should therefore shoulder 100% of the responsibility.

the woman should have total responsibility for any baby that she, alone, chooses to have.

None of the above applies, of course, if a man and a woman agree to a pregnancy. In this case, both are responsible for it. But when a man and a woman have intercourse for the sake of sex, rather than for anything else, then the woman should have total responsibility for any baby that she, alone, chooses to have.

A typical ploy by women to absolve their gender from responsibility is to claim that when a man has sex with a woman then it is his own fault if she ends up having a baby.

western women do not 'end up' having babies. They choose to have them

But, firstly, western women do not 'end up' having babies. They choose to have them. These are not 'accidents'.

Secondly, they would not apply the same twisted kind of 'logic' to any other circumstance.

For example, if a man was to take a woman out for a drive in his car, and he decided to crash the car into a wall deliberately, I doubt that many women would blame the female passenger for her resulting injuries. For example, I doubt that women would say, "Oh well, if she gets into a car with a man then any deliberate damage to her well-being caused by the man is her fault."

But this is exactly what western women do when it comes to pregnancies.

The woman has TOTAL control of her pregnancy - throughout the whole of its period - but the man is blamed for the outcome!

Indeed, a woman who argues that a man is just as responsible as she is for the production of a child - following sex - will surely soon be arguing that a man is just as responsible for the programs that she runs (or the words that she writes) on her computer because he helped her to plug it into the socket!

Another ploy used by women to make men responsible for pregnancies is to argue that the resulting children are the men's children.

"He has 'fathered' a child."

"It is 'his' child."

But this is just fooling around with deceptive words.

in what sense is the child 'his'?

For example, in what sense is the child 'his'?

He can be removed from 'his' child at the whim of the woman. The law allows her to leave the country with the child. The law allows the woman to displace him and to replace him with another man. The woman can even flush 'his' child down the toilet in the early stages of pregnancy.

So, in what sense, exactly, does this child actually 'belong to him'?

Well, the truth is that it is not 'his' child at all.

Yes. He is related genetically to the child; but he is also related genetically to many other people, but, surely, this does not mean that he must be held 'responsible' for them simply because of this.

Legally, the child is 'his' - but only in the sense that the law burdens him with financial responsibility for it.

But this is merely a legal ploy, not a moral one.

Another ploy used by women and the state to burden men unfairly in this matter is to parrot the totally bogus "best interests of the child" mantra - an emotive mantra that is almost invariably used to cover up the fact that women or the state are seeking some unfair advantage over men.

One typical argument is as follows.

the "best interests of the child" must take priority, and so the 'father' must pay up.

Regardless of the details of a particular case, once a child is born then the "best interests of the child" must take priority, and so the 'father' must pay up.

But, hold on! If the question is about money, then there is no reason why this money should come from one particular man. Why, for example, should it not come from her new boyfriend? Or, perhaps, from the state? Why should one particular man be penalised simply because this woman once had sex with him?

Would a woman passenger in a car that was deliberately crashed by the driver be expected to pay the costs of repairing the driver's car? - simply because she had chosen to go for the ride?

The very idea would be outrageous.

But when it comes to hurting men, or to treating them unfairly, it does not seem to matter how outrageous matters might get; as evidenced, for example, by the fact that in many western jurisdictions men are forced to pay child support for children who are not even theirs! - e.g. see Paternity Fraud

Western men (mostly) have provided their women with numerous technologies with which to control their pregnancies, and I think that it is about time that women were made to take proper responsibility in this area and not be allowed to foist the blame on to others for the consequences of their own fecklessness, greed, selfishness and/or dishonesty.

As such, my view is that a woman who chooses to get pregnant and to remain pregnant should, at the very least, be required to obtain a signed document from the prospective father testifying as to whether or not he is willing to be legally identified as the father of the child should a birth take place. If not, then I would argue that the 'father' has no legal liability for any birth.

And I also believe that all children should be genetically tested at birth so that false assignments of paternity are properly prevented.

Notice how the women bear no responsibility ...

Unemployed Father Of 10 Children Is Having Four More Britain's most feckless father is having another four children - and is apparently 'engaged' for the third time in three months.

on men bearing responsibility for having babies ...
Harry

A man has just as much ability to provide or insist upon contraceptives. He, also can insist on a condom, make inquiries as to whether she is using birth control, or a diaphragm. This man in question can also, if a woman insists on using nothing, keep his penis to himself. He is just as responsible for the choice to have sex as a woman, and therefore should be just as responsible for the resulting child. They both agreed, the responsibility is 50-50. Women can't impregnate themselves, they happen to need a man involved as well.

C

Hello C

1. A man cannot insist on an abortion.

2. A man cannot insist on the morning after pill.

3. A man cannot force the woman not to betray the trust that he placed in her.

it is perfectly legitimate for her to renege on the deal and decide to have a baby.

What you seem to be suggesting is that if, for example, a man and a woman agree to have sex together without a condom, then it is perfectly legitimate for her to renege on the deal and decide to have a baby.

In my opinion, such an attitude is contemptible, and it reflects the rather common but distasteful view that women should bear no responsibility for choices that they alone can make - in this case, the choice to have, or not to have, a baby.

But, yes, you a right, a man can always keep his penis to himself, or insist on using a condom. And this is exactly what my advice would be, given that so many women cannot be trusted.

And you, clearly, agree with this view.

You are actually admitting that if a man wants to be assured of not fathering a baby then he must not trust the woman that he is with.

you must be of the view that many women are untrustworthy.

In other words, you must be of the view that many women are untrustworthy.

I agree.

The difference between us is, therefore, that you think that when a woman betrays this trust, she should be allowed to get away with it. Indeed, you actually try to blame the man for trusting her - i.e. you 'blame the victim'. Basically, you are saying that if he is stupid enough to trust her then he should pay the price.

My view is that he should not have to pay the price for her breach of trust.

And your later notion that an agreement to have sex is identical to an agreement to have a child is too laughable for me to bother talking about it.

An average eight-year old could tell the difference between the two.

Harry

3/12/03

To Tell the Truth, Women Lie

Harriet Arkell

Evening Standard

The minefield of modern manners has turned British women into bare-faced liars.

A study of 5,000 women shows that only six per cent claim never to have uttered a falsehood.

The rest lie regularly about everything from why they are late to their boyfriend's sexual prowess.

Three-quarters said they had told major lies with serious consequences, such as pretending to be on the Pill to get pregnant. "Women lie because they're afraid to tell the truth," said psychologist Susan Quilliam. "They're scared of hurting people, scared of failing and scared of being criticised.

"Women are expected to fulfill expectations, and to get what they want in life they feel they have to gloss over the truth."

Most of the fibs are white lies. Among common admissions were faking orgasms (48 per cent); pretending to weigh less (51 per cent); feigning delight at Christmas presents (88 per cent) and reporting sick to get over a hangover (60 per cent).

But almost half said that if they became pregnant through an affair they might tell their partner the child was his.

The study was commissioned by That's Life magazine and the average age of respondents was 38.

Jo Checkley, editor of That's Life!, said: "Just imagine the consequences if women always told the truth: 'Yes, you do look fat in that dress'."

Someone made the following rather interesting post at the end of an article; so I pinched it. It offers a reasonable solution to how the responsibility for pregnancies should be assigned

...

We need to get beyond the red herring argument of who is responsible for birth control and deal with the reality of what should be done once conception has occurred. We all know the heat of passion is not a clear thinking time even for the most rational humans, people lie to and mislead each other all the time when sex is involved, birth control often fails to be 100% effective regardless of who is responsible for it and, quite simply, mistakes happen even in the best of circumstances.

I offer, what I think is, an outline for a rather simple solution to the problem of who is financially liable for children once they are conceived. If the two parties are not married and, thus, already legally bound to financially support the child, the two parties involved could file a notarized statement with the courts as to whether they want to have the child or not knowing and, therefore, assuming all the legal and financial responsibilities of raising that child. If they both wish to go forward, there is no problem and paperwork is already on file from both parties accepting legal and financial responsibility for the child.

If one party wants to have the baby and the other doesn’t, the baby must be carried to term and the one who wants it must assume all legal and financial responsibilities of the pregnancy and for raising the child once it is born. The other party is released from any and all legal and financial responsibility for the pregnancy and the raising of the child. If neither party wants it, a negotiated settlement must be made between the two parties to terminate the pregnancy or hand the child over for adoption. If the decision is made to terminate, the two parties split responsibility for the costs involved, including any post operation medical expenses and psychological counseling fees, for up to a year after. In the case of any personal adoption set up by either of the two parties, the entities(s) doing the adopting assume all legal and financial responsibilities from that point forward. If State adoption is the preferred choice, the case is turned over to the State, the child becomes a ward of the State and the State assumes all legal and financial responsibilities from that point forward.

For the record, I do believe that whether or not to terminate a pregnancy should be a personal choice. Therefore, such a solution would never force a woman to terminate a pregnancy against her will. At the same time, though, the choice is not hers alone. If the man is equally involved in the legal and financial responsibility of raising a child, then the man must be equally involved in making the choice. Thus, the woman would not be able to terminate a pregnancy against the will of the man if the man wants the child and is willing to assume all legal and financial responsibility for that child. I acknowledge, therefore, that such a solution as I offer allows for cases where a woman might be required to carry a baby to term that she doesn’t want. At the point of birth, though, she can give the child to the man and her responsibility in the matter would be over. If a woman chooses to go forward with a pregnancy despite having no commitment of legal and financial responsibility from the man, she assumes all legal and financial responsibilities herself. She cannot force a man to financially support a child he does not choose to have.

I know this sounds unbelievably simplistic and there are a lot of details that would need to be hammered out about how, precisely, such contractual agreements would be executed in reality, such as how to handle any number of mitigating circumstances such as rape and incest. However, I think there is a workable outline here that seems pretty fair. It levels the playing field as much as possible given the, as yet, unchangeable biological realities we have to deal with and would go a long way towards solving a hugely controversial problem.
Father Of 15 Children

Father Of 15 Children An unemployed father of 15 who lives with his wife and mistress is demanding a larger council house after getting both women pregnant at the same time.

He 'got' them pregnant, eh?

Well, that's not quite the whole story, is it?

The women got themselves pregnant would be a more accurate description of the events.

And having got themselves pregnant, they chose to have the children. No-one could force them to have children. Indeed, the choice was entirely theirs.

And that's a fact!

"Some people call me a scrounger, but I'm not. I'm just a good father. I love my kids more than anyone and want to see them every weekend."

From: AngryHarry.com
But why do people see him as the 'scrounger', rather than the women who chose to have the children?
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 250
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/17/2012 7:24:20 AM
I think that's the longest post in the history of history..

I can't possibly read it all.. but I get the gist of it.. men bear no responsibility right?

Don't you see??? that's the problem. Men won't stand up and take responsibility for their part.. Women are said to be doing the same thing... I could go on the internet and find all the stuff like you just did to rebuke what you posted.. Women stay.. they raise the child..they do what they have to do..

Men are starting to gain a footing in this stuff.. there are support groups for men dealing abortions/adoption.. there is help beginning to be offered to single father households. it's coming where men will have a say in the life of the fetus as well. There are a whole bunch of cases where men tried to stop an abortion.. Eventually one will succeed and we'll see another landmark case on this.

You say women lie.. well so do men.. "I'm sterile baby, I can't make babies" yea their dumb for believing them and no taking their own precautions.. but why then is it ok for men to fall for the same lines and be considered not responsible.

I don't take the responsibility off the women shoulder either. However, when the women stays and raises the child and the man runs around making other kids or just runs around doing whatever he wants ignoring the offspring he created, then I have a problem. The woman is shouldering the burden alone, taking on all the responsibility and then taking all the flack from people like the men above who put them down for everything they do.

You all press for equality.. well then get it all.. You make an unplanned/unwanted baby then BOTH parents need to stick around for it.

Of course there are women who blame the man and make the rest of us look bad.. there are men who do the same for you! You're own example.. a man father how many kids with how many women all at once?? I once saw a maury show where the man had something like 27 kids.. Yea the women are stupid for sleeping with him, I wonder how many of them knew he had that many other kids he was neglecting?? I'd bet he lied to them about having kids.

I'm not a femanist.. I'm a realist.. I know what effect the lack of a parent can have on a child, and I believe that both parents should be there for the kids. Men who downplay the whole abortion thing have not seen what it can do to you. Emotionally and physically. Sure some people are ok with it.. but the overwhelming majority are scarred in one way or another for life. and they are actually starting to look into the effects on abortion on the father.

If a man is adamant that he doesn't want a baby, then take responsibility for yourself and get a vasectomy. Of course that's not even considered.. why? Because it makes the man responsible for something..A women can't force a man to get a vasectomy. It's his body his choice. I could build a very similar argument off of this statement as you do from abortion. Only the risk level physically and emotionally are much smaller then those of an abortion, it's even covered by insurance.. so you don't have to pay for it, unlike abortion.. I notice how this statement is skipped over every time it is brought up.

I don't know why this country goes so far either left or right all the time. It's not his fault, it's not her fault.. it's THEIR fault it happened. It's his fault if he leaves and neglects his child. It's her fault if she leaves and neglects her child.
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