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 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 201
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?Page 9 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)

Also had the crappiest friends imaginable prior to becoming a mommy, so my social life improved drastically with the departure of the fake ones. and I had to work, to pay for me and my son and all the bills with it.. so I did.. 2 and 3 jobs usually, which was a lot more then I did prior to becoming a mommy.

Your scenario doesn't really refute anything. It's obvious that you had more -time- to be successful in college prior to having a kid. But if having a kid was what it took to put a fire under your @ss to finish out, more power to you.


Well since I was talking specifically about taking care of a child, not the status of a relationship between mommy and daddy.. your comment is way off point.

Daddy running "at the first sign of pregnancy" = daddy not contributing to taking care of the child.


Kids are just disposable things? Get rid of them like you get rid of the trash in your home?

People do it all the time, so apparently yes.


I wonder what you would do if faced with an unwanted pregnancy?

Well, before sex was even engaged, I would ask the very direct question of, "If you and I were to have sex, and you got pregnant, would you have the baby?" Anything other than a direct "no" means that I'm not sleeping with them. None of this "well I don't know" or "we'll cross that bridge when we get to it." Those answers aren't good enough. I even go so far as to say "if you 'change your mind,' I will do the absolute minimum that is legally required of me to raise that child. He/she would be lucky to get an annual phone call from me on birthdays/holidays."



BUT when you are educated about sex and know the things you need to know

Seems more like an "if" than a "when." Its reminds me of something one of my fellow sailors told me, "my recruiter didn't screw me over. I just didn't ask all the right questions." The poorer the demographic, the harder it is to get [accurate] information. Maybe that's why they're having all the kids left and right.



then you either practice abstinence or deal with the consequences of that choice.

HE shouldn't have to deal with the consequences of HER choice. How hard is that to understand? Do I need to dumb it down for you? Men can't -force- parenthood onto women post-conception.



Is it because the women forced him to have unprotected sex with her?

You know, you -love- to ASSume that all these guys are having unprotected sex. I guess you want to completely ignore the fact that condoms are the most unreliable forms of contraception. Obviously it's better to use them than not, but I kind of wonder how many women want to be cheap and just go the condom route than the other 20+ forms of contraception that they have access to? But then again, from that I've read on here, and from people I talked to, the pill/depo shot/neva ring, all seem just as ineffective. Which brings up this question (again), if someone isn't competent enough to use contraception properly, what makes them competent enough to raise a child?


You advocate taking all the responsibility off the man and making it all the woman responsibility?

Lion's share of the choices = lions share of the responsibilities. The woman makes her choice of whether to keep or get rid of the baby, and the man has to deal with HER choice. Why should HE be held liable for HER choice? When you see these big companies in the limelight for the good/bad things they've done, the fingers are being pointed at the CEOs, not their secretaries. You know, making an "executive decision."
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 202
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/9/2012 8:38:19 PM
HAHAHAHAHA..oh tealwood.. you do like to beat a dead horse..

You failed to read all the past tense in my posts. Basic english.. I learned it,did you?

yes, there were times when the child support I was supposed to get would have meant I could eat along with my child, but you conveniently skipped over where i said I don't get it regularly.. and went over 8 years without a blessed cent. there were times when i struggled..I've never taken money from a man, the government or my family. How does that fit into your picture of me?

Oh and the amount ordered is substantially less then what should be ordered if I wanted to push the envelope and the amount doesn't subsidize squat.

Where do I weave a different story?? New flash.. different times in my life brought different situations and scenarios for me. I use them all in my examples. I can't talk about things I haven't either been through personally or helped a friend get through. Like I've said before.. I've been on all sides of the spectrum when it comes to my financial status. One thing I never did was blame others, and I have never blamed others here, other then to say that things would have been easier if had paid the child support he was supposed to pay and that is true in any situation.

I never said that's my situation now. You ASSume that. I am quite self sufficient and always determined to get back on track when my life gets derailed. I refer to the child support as mad money, because I don't account for it in budgets.. that's how infrequently I receive it.

I am happy where I am now, I have said that. I've made good decision in the past, even when they brought on immediate harder times and am in a good place now.

So feel free to string together as many bits and pieces of things I post to paint any picture of me you like. You are completely off point.

By the way.. I think a non-custodial parent should have shared/equal custody whether or not that involved support and if they run or refuse to do it, they should support their children financially. Since you can't force them to be there physically, then they should at a minimum be there financially. That is all i have said, that is all i have ever said.

Oh and Tealwood...I have said this before.. numerous times.. but just to satisfy you I'll spell it out.. I worked very hard to be where I am today. I am here today because of things I did and choices I made. No one else did it for me. My life is what it is because I made it this way. And I wouldn't change a thing..

Are you happy now??

~~~~~~~~~~~~~

MRC

well if my scenario is moot then so is yours.

~~~~~~
Daddy running "at the first sign of pregnancy" = daddy not contributing to taking care of the child.
~~~~~
ok.. and??? He helped create the baby he should support it. period.

~~~~~
People do it all the time, so apparently yes.
~~~~
yea they do.. I knew the mother to the prom baby.. she went to jail.. i think she should have been thrown out in the trash left to starve and die that way, like she did her baby...
This is your great argument?

~~~~~~
' I will do the absolute minimum that is legally required of me to raise that child. He/she would be lucky to get an annual phone call from me on birthdays/holidays."
~~~~
gee..you're a winner. One step above prom mom anyway..
I hope you've asked that question to every single person you've slept with and gotten a satisfactory answer.. If you gave me that answer, i'd walk away.

HE should have the deal with the consequence of THEIR choice to have SEX. What's so hard to understand??? We're gonna have to agree to disagree.. I won't bend.

~~~~
Which brings up this question (again), if someone isn't competent enough to use contraception properly, what makes them competent enough to raise a child?
~~~~
If this is true, what makes them competent enough to have sex in the first place? We can peel this back as far as you want.. When the male birth control pill comes out will you take it???

yea.. condom is the easiest.. I personally can't use anything that alters hormone levels.. I get all kinds of unpleasant unbearable side effects from it. Despite this I haven't been pregnant in 13 years.. So condoms must be pretty effective. And you're right.. i don't know that they are all having unprotected sex.. but I'd bet more of them are then admit to it.

Oh and btw.. you don't always have access to it.. they cost money..some of them are very expensive.. some young women either don't' want their parents to know or they have to hide it from them for other reasons and can't use insurance, some of us don't have insurance.. Yea.. here comes you're argument "it's cheaper then having a kid".. and it's true.. but if you don't have it.. you don't have it.

Once again, abortion is not an answer. Especially once you enter the 2nd trimester.. it becomes dangerous and many doctors won't even perform one..
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 203
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/9/2012 8:53:04 PM

By the way.. I think a non-custodial parent should have shared/equal custody whether or not that involved support and if they run or refuse to do it, they should support their children financially. That is all i have said, that is all i have ever said.


Well....lets suggest that in fact your ex...the father of your son was around....and every other week he had shared equal custody...that would suggest you would see no child support as his share of raising your child...his child would equally be part of the added costs he had to bear....which would put you in the same position or lack of resources you presently complain of?

Or would you expect shared equal custody...and he still be giving you child support payments?


So the lack of food would be the same...if the father was around or wasn't around?
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 204
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/9/2012 9:06:10 PM
I already saw no child support. But I could have worked more on the weekends, so probably lack of food wouldn't have happened.. if the father was around???? (I see you skipped the "no child support received" part of my post yet again.)..

Keep trying
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 205
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 5:00:20 AM

well if my scenario is moot then so is yours.

If you're given a week to write a 10 page paper with no other obligations, you have more time and the lack of distractions than if you had that same week but you were working 40 hours. More time and less obligations = easier to perform the task. This isn't rocket science.



ok.. and??? He helped create the baby he should support it. period.

So that reverts back to what I originally pointed out. He's abusive/negligent/irresponsible/etc, but because he helped create the baby, he should support it. PERIOD. Lolz

I know what you're -trying- to say, so I'll move on from this.


gee..you're a winner. One step above prom mom anyway..

Thankfully, I don't have any kids right?! Then you have people like lil miss prom mom that you speak of who DO have kids. Isn't that just lovely to think that society's future is resting on the backs of so many unfit parents? Kind of scary to think about.

Regardless, at least I discussed my stance before anything happened. You would think that with how life-altering child rearing is, people would AT LEAST have enough responsibility to discuss outcomes. C'est La Vie.


gee..you're a winner.

Awe, you're too kind.


I hope you've asked that question to every single person you've slept with and gotten a satisfactory answer..

I would say every single one since I started doing it. So in the past 6 years. And considering that I even do that -at all- it's significantly better than what seems to be the trend. I mean, how mad can someone be if I actually to do what I tell them what I'm going to do? If anything it'd be their fault for not holding me accountable for what I said.


HE should have the deal with the consequence of THEIR choice to have SEX. What's so hard to understand???

Consent to sex is not consent to parenthood. If you disagree, then it's only prudent that you disagree to ALL non-rape abortion.


When the male birth control pill comes out will you take it???

I won't jump -right- on board, because it seems like with any drug, you never hear about the long term effects until after the fact. However, if there are no long-term effects, then yes, I would. However, I must say, with the 1500+ different variations of the BCP, and the other 20-something forms of birth control that women have access to, why am I the one being singled out?


If this is true, what makes them competent enough to have sex in the first place?

Perhaps they aren't!!! However, that's what this whole "education" thing that you're talking about is supposed to rectify, right? Moreover, sticking a wee wee in a ho ha is much easier than raising a child.


Yea.. here comes you're argument "it's cheaper then having a kid".. and it's true.. but if you don't have it.. you don't have it.

Indeed, that argument still stand because you keep trying to take the "cost effectiveness" route. And in every circumstance, keeping the child is the worst option. So that begs the question of why do you keep trying to argue from that standpoint? Then you follow up with this whole "if you don't have it, you don't have it." So they don't have the money for these other things, but somehow they WILL have the money to support a child? Where do you get this stuff?


Once again, abortion is not an answer.

1.2 million abortions in the year in 2011. In 2010 it was at 4.01 million (and has been on a pretty steady decline since 2007). So that's about 1 in every 5 pregnancies resulted in an abortion. Apparently it -is- an answer.
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 206
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 7:55:44 AM
Oh boy.. and we're back to where we started. I do not think abortion is an answer ever, save a very few scenarios. Where have I stated differently? Why should men take the bcp when it comes out? So they can avoid all this if they want to. Once again you are trying to push all responsibility off the shoulders of the man. Presumably the man knows she's not on anything or doesn't care, many things render the pill useless, and many times we don't know it's not working. Therefore.. if he does the deed anyway he's just as responsible as her. I don't see him offering to buy it for her. As you put it.. it's cheaper then anything else..And your quote the the cost of abortion is if you get an early stage, no hospital abortion with no complications. I didn't even know I was pregnant until i was almost 3 months. By the time many women realize it they are already a month or more pregnant.. which increases risks and costs..

~~~~~
Apparently it -is- an answer.
~~~~
So if everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too? Just because people do it doesn't make it right.

Oh and since using the pill incorrectly seems to be the biggest reason for becoming pregnant, it would behoove the man to use a condom as well, just to avoid anything unwanted and to take control over his own future. Simply stated, we don't know if the pill is working properly. We just take it and hope we didn't mess up somewhere along the way. It's too much to put on one persons shoulders. The man should do his part as well. As for the pill. there are very few medical risks involved with take it. Since the male pill is basically the same, they just swap the female hormone for the male hormone to stop sperm creation, I would think the same to be true.

~~~~
sticking a wee wee in a ho ha is much easier than raising a child.
~~~
Hence the problem.. life isn't easy and it isn't fair... You want to do this? Things can happen, if you don't want these things then either don't do the action or do what you need to to avoid it! . Otherwise, well.. you take the risk and you might not have and "easy" time anymore. Leaving your future in the hands of another in the manner is just plain dumb.. Esp when you can do something to reduce the risk.

I agree.. people should have discussed what they would do if an unwanted pregnancy occurs so yo know where the other stands. If the women doesn't bring it up the man should or if it does happen, they need to accept whatever the outcome is. Being irresponsible about sex does not excuse you from the responsibility towards outcome of it.

Honestly, I'm surprised people sleep with you if you actually tell them you will run away if they get pregnant. Stuff sometimes happens even when you are very careful. Maybe you need to choose better women.. oh then you wouldn't get laid huh...
You're beginning to bore me..

PS
~~~~~
More time and less obligations = easier to perform the task
~~~~
Management 101.. if you want something done, give it to a busy person and it will be done.. and it's completely and totally true. more time, means you have the ability to put things off until later, busy people do things right away and get them done., people who aren't busy are more likely to put things off.. and that has proven to be true.


Oh and PS to Tealwood... every other weekend is not shared equal custody.. that's more like a play date..
 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 207
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History
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 8:59:47 AM
Why should men take the bcp when it comes out? So they can avoid all this if they want to.

Well...supposedly. Again, that whole "failure rate" thing keeps rearing it's head.


Once again you are trying to push all responsibility off the shoulders of the man.

And once again, you refuse to acknowledge how lopsided the power of choice is post-conception.


Presumably the man knows she's not on anything or doesn't care

I think that -more- presumably, people just don't bother to discuss this whole thing.


I don't see him offering to buy it for her.

I wonder if she bothered to even ask for him to chip in.


So if everyone jumped off a bridge would you do it too? Just because people do it doesn't make it right.

That depends on what's at the bottom. In the military we call it Operational Risk Management. And the rightness/wrongness of abortion is still up for [heated] debate. And just looking at last year, there are 1.2 million people who are quite happy that Roe v Wade still stands.


it would behoove the man to use a condom as well

I'm pretty sure that everyone is on the same page with condoms.


Since the male pill is basically the same, they just swap the female hormone for the male hormone to stop sperm creation, I would think the same to be true.

You might want to do some of your own research on the male pill, because you're pretty far off base as far as to how it work. But all of this is irrelevant. What IS relevant is that the only thing currently available for sexually active men is condoms. Perhaps if men's health got nearly as much funding as women's health, we wouldn't be having this discussion, but that's a whole different argument.


I'm surprised people sleep with you if you actually tell them you will run away if they get pregnant.

Why? At least they know beforehand. Additionally, I haven't impregnated any of them unlike -some- women's male partners who are nowhere to be found. Why am I the bad guy? I'd think a pretty significant percentage woman who's baby daddy bailed on them would either taken better precautions and/or just foregone sex altogether if they knew beforehand what he was going to do. I'm sure we'd have that many less **stard children running around that were sired by losers.


Maybe you need to choose better women.. oh then you wouldn't get laid huh...

So not being offended by my personal standpoint makes them "worse" in some fashion? Maybe THEY don't want kids either because they want to be able to focus on their careers, social lives, free time, finances, etc. I know, it's crazy to think about. I mean it's not like this has been around since the 60s when the BCP first came out or anything. Who could imagine that there are -WOMEN- who lack that "mother gene?" It's quite fascinating.


Management 101.. if you want something done, give it to a busy person and it will be done.. and it's completely and totally true. more time, means you have the ability to put things off until later, busy people do things right away and get them done., people who aren't busy are more likely to put things off.. and that has proven to be true.

Source?


You're beginning to bore me..

You're not exactly producing material that should go on the front page of the Sunday Times, so it's all good.
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 208
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 10:03:54 AM
~~~~~~~~
Source?
~~~~~~~
My own experience in management, in every management job I have held. Not to mention my business professors in college also gave me this little tidbit.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~
there are 1.2 million people who are quite happy that Roe v Wade still stands.
~~~~~~~~~~~~
And declining as more men and women take prevention seriously. it will always be up for debate as it is a extremely personal issue.

~~~~~~~~~
Perhaps if men's health got nearly as much funding as women's health
~~~~~~~~
Funny how Viagra and Cialis are being used by a lot of men and are approved and covered by insurance, but they are slow on the uptake for prevention.

~~~~~
Well...supposedly. Again, that whole "failure rate" thing keeps rearing it's head.
~~~~
This is a good argument for men but not women??

~~~~~
I think that -more- presumably, people just don't bother to discuss this whole thing.
~~~~
Which is what I said. Which means both parties are accepting the risks involved and both need to deal with the consequences of that choice.

~~~~~~
You might want to do some of your own research on the male pill, because you're pretty far off base as far as to how it work
~~~~~~
That prospect may soon become a reality now that researchers at the University of Edinburgh have recently discovered a gene that is essential for the development of sperm. Their study, published in the journal PLos Genetics, highlights the gene Katnal1, which causes temporary infertility in male mice when blocked.

Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2012/05/25/gene-discovery-could-lead-to-birth-control-pill-for-men/#ixzz1xPUrkxCv

It will also use testosterone instead of estrogen as the female pull has in it. So really no.. i'm not far off base.

~~~~~~~~~
So not being offended by my personal standpoint makes them "worse" in some fashion
~~~~~~~~
Not so much being offended by your standpoint, as being offended by your unwillingness to take responsibility for an unfavorable outcome. If they were to get pregnant, you'd leave therefore creating another single parent, who you are clearly against. It's men like you who help create single parents.

All I'm saying is men bear just as much responsibility as women, and should help raise the child if pregnancy occurs. All the excuses and/or reasons in the world won't negate this fact. Even when it comes to you and you telling women what you expect up front, if you help bring a child into their world, then you bear responsibility towards it. period.
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 209
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 10:56:52 AM
It would be to take down the right for abortion, adoption and safe heaven policy?
I believe it should be a mutual agreement. If one parent wants the baby the other shouldn't be able to terminate the pregnancy or give away the baby. Then both of them have to deal with it. It's not right for one parent to run away from the responsibility and leave it on the shoulders of the other.

It would mean forced motherhood when a woman doesn´t want to be a mother?
An unwanted pregnancy in and of itself is forced motherhood...

It would be a detriment of women´s reproductive rights and choices and free will?
Perhaps, but as I've said, both made the decision, both needs to deal with the outcome.

And if so, then why you claim a man has to be with a child he rejects in the first place?
You don't want to physically raise the child, then you shouldn't have had sex. This is a known possible outcome of sex, if you can't deal with it, then you aren't ready for sex. At a minimum financial support should be provided, and if the parent is absent it should be a higher amount then one who is around.

It´s not that claim forced fatherhood?
If it's good for the woman, then it's good for the man.

It´s not enough the legislation about child support?
Nope. it's not. Because the only ones it works on are the ones who do right by their kids anyway. The real deadbeats just find all the loopholes and run.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 210
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 1:31:49 PM
I do fully support a womans right to choose to abort or give birth.
I personally could never abort my own children, & the ideas of terminating pregnancy saddens me, but I recognize the consequences of making abortion illegal, & womans bodily autonomy.

Men, like it or not, abortion & pregnancy is a womans issue. Sorry y'all feel left out of it, but believe me, if i could have a man go through a pregnancy & childbirth on my behalf, I would be more than happy to let one.

Women hold the post-conception choices, because women gestate & birth the children. Not men.
Logic would dictate that a man, knowing that he holds no say in a pregnancy once concieved, would protect themselves.
Sex is a natural, beautiful thing between a man & a woman, but you cant go around all nilly-willy like a feral animal, one needs to be mature enough to engage in intimate relations. Birth control, choose partners wisely.
Stick to blow-jobs if you are adamant that you would run off on your own children.

I do not see how anyone could run off on their own flesh & blood....what a disgrace. These are human beings, not chimpanzees out in the wild. After seeing the tender, precious, sacred love between my late Husband & our newborn son, how he was astounded by that tiny little human life when he was born, i simply can not imagine how another man would just be "meh" about his own child.

And really, there is no way a woman can force a man to be a father. Legally, the bare minimum a man has to do if he chooses to abandon his child, is break off a little chunk of chump change for child support. A man can not be forced to love a child, raise the child day in day out, nurture, bond with, teach, supervise, have their whole hearts & souls filed up with love beyond measure, care for a sick child, pay every cost associated with raising a child, do all the chores associated with raising a child (the chauffering, laundry, cooking, shopping, help with homework, activities, vacations, etc) cheer the child on, be a constant in their lives, & revolve their whole lives around the household & family.

As for birth control, not every woman can take each & every method. Pills have side effects on some women, & once you hit your 30's you are recommended to not use the pill, i used the pill for some time & i ended up having painful miscarriages (rather than preventing ovulation, my pill only thinned out my uterine lining so that if i concieved the fetus would get miscarried due to having an inhospitable uterine environment).........the miscarriages were tough emotionally & physically, horrible debiltating cramping,shedding uterine tissue & lining, my ob/gyn suggested the Paraguard but that makes you bleed heavier so that is out for me, the hormones in the nuva-ring & patch are not suitable for me, i tried the shot years ago & it made clumps of my hair fall out & i had dizzy spells.........i give up using artificial hormones, i dont react well to them. As of right now i use Natural Family Planning, which takes a lot of book- studying & awareness of your body & cycles, along with a non hormonal cervical cap for back-up protection, with the full understanding from my partner (now ex but that is a whole different topic).........that if the method fails, then i will accept any resulting children, we both agreed on that, (We really wanted to try for a baby at one time but decided not to).
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 211
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 3:55:59 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
you equate man´s sex for pleasure with the wish to be father.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

No I don't.. I simply have the same expectations of a man that they do for a woman.. if the" sex for pleasure" results in a pregnancy then both of them have to take care of the impending child. If no pregnancy result then have at it.

QueenBeeSweetness said it much better then I did.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 212
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 6:01:33 PM

Theoretically speaking: the emotional bond is stablished for the mother from the day one because is inside her; for the man, since is not physical, is somehow, something abstract until birth when become reality rather than an idea, presencial rather than imaginary, a life which can be seen rather than a dream...


I think this is an important point and is really the answer to the OP.

As usual, women believe that men should think and feel the same way that women do and if men don't, then they are somehow deficient. Men, as usual, understand where women are coming from much better than women understand what men are about simply because of women's feeling of superiority in most things.

I am always amazed by women's fatalistic attitude as well, which is another problem with understanding when this topic comes up. A large number of women love the deniable plausibility of an "oopsie" pregnancy. Rather than taking whatever measures they possibly can to prevent pregnancy, knowing that there area men who will not share their happiness in getting pregnant, the women love to roll the dice not really caring about, and likely secretly hoping for, pregnancy.

 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 213
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 6:12:18 PM
So now dealing with the consequences of your actions and taking responsibility for them is deemed fatalistic???

I understand where men are coming from. It still doesn't excuse them from the part the played in it and the responsibility it brings.

~~~~~~~
the women love to roll the dice not really caring about, and likely secretly hoping for, pregnancy.
~~~~~~~
I'm always amazed by the men's out look that when a woman becomes unintentionally pregnant it was in fact on purpose for some reason or another..

We can play the blame game all day long.. in the end it doesn't' matter.. there is a child that was created by 2 people and it need to be taken care of by both of them.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 214
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 6:21:29 PM

So now dealing with the consequences of your actions and taking responsibility for them is deemed fatalistic???


Not deemed, most women's attitude IS fatalistic when it comes to pregnancy. Most women dream of having kids one day. Most men don't really give it much thought at all, and if they do, it's much later in life than women.


I understand where men are coming from.


Hmmm... I haven't seen much from your posts that would support this statement.


...there is a child that was created by 2 people and it need to be taken care of by both of them.


Yes, but it's only brought INTO the world by ONE person's decision.

 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 215
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 6:45:40 PM
One person can't have sex with themselves that produces offspring.. Therefore it's is TWO people's decision. If I could pass the pregnancy on to you.. i'd gladly forgo it.. and still take care of the baby after it's born.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 216
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 6:51:40 PM

Therefore it's is TWO people's decision.


I agree, the sex involves two people. The decision to bring a child into the world lies solely with the woman.


I could pass the pregnancy on to you.. i'd gladly forgo it..


Well, maybe YOU would, but, really, if having a kid is so Gawwwwd-Awful, why do women do it ONCE, let alone numerous times? Kinda stupid, really, if it's so horrible, especially since most females have listened to the horror stories of their mothers, sisters, aunts, friends since before they even knew what a hard penis looked like.

 mrcs84
Joined: 12/9/2008
Msg: 217
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Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/10/2012 8:23:53 PM
Legally, the bare minimum a man has to do if he chooses to abandon his child, is break off a little chunk of chump change for child support.

And some don't even do that...

Men, like it or not, abortion & pregnancy is a womans issue.


I recognize the consequences of making abortion illegal, & womans bodily autonomy.


Women hold the post-conception choices, because women gestate & birth the children.


And really, there is no way a woman can force a man to be a father.




So keeping all these things in mind, I would definitely think that women hold themselves significantly more responsible and hold themselves to a higher standard than men.

Here's a question, what do you do about these guys that bail, and don't even pay child support? So far, all I've seen from these forums is a lot of fist-shaking and feet-stamping.


i tried the shot years ago & it made clumps of my hair fall out & i had dizzy spells.........i give up using artificial hormones, i dont react well to them.

If/when a male pill comes out, I'm sure there will be several men that will have similar testaments and choose to forgo taking it because of which. And not only that, you're talking about probably a handful of variations to the pill as opposed to the hundreds that women have. Seeing how women have a 50+ year head start on the pill, there is a lot of catching up to do. Until then. Condoms are the way to go.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 218
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:03:26 AM

So keeping all these things in mind, I would definitely think that women hold themselves significantly more responsible and hold themselves to a higher standard than men.


Yes that would be nice, but I would think, that men, knowing that they have no post-conception choices because of the way biology works, & can not have an abortion, nor give birth, would hold themselves to a high standard as well.


Here's a question, what do you do about these guys that bail, and don't even pay child support? So far, all I've seen from these forums is a lot of fist-shaking and feet-stamping.


I dont do anything about them. It is not my job to chase down the deadbeat Fathers of the world & make them pay child support. I feel bad for their children, I dont understand it, but there is nothing I can do about them. I just live my life, make sure my kids are well loved, cared, & provided for, & thank God i had a man in my life who cherished the children, & cherished his Fatherhood, & wanted children. I cant make a difference in the world but i make a difference in my home.


If/when a male pill comes out, I'm sure there will be several men that will have similar testaments and choose to forgo taking it because of which


Of course there will be. Artificial hormones are nothing to screw with, if they dont react well with your body they can cause more harm than good. I am sure it will be wonderful for the men it does work well for, but it isnt going to work for everyone. It is a great idea, but wont be a magic "save the world" pill.


And not only that, you're talking about probably a handful of variations to the pill as opposed to the hundreds that women have.


There is only a select handful of pills i personally can take, & even those few have caused problems, miscarriages being the biggest one. What particular pill would you recommend? I have tried Ortho-Novum, Nortrel, Ortho-Tri-Cyclen, Alesse, Micro-Nor, Nor-Q-D, Seasonique, Camila, Errin, & Jollivette.
I can not take anything but Norethindrone, & Norethindrone is not strong enough to stop ovulation, so i would have miscarriages on that pill rather than just not ovulate. I do Natural Family Planning now & couldnt be happier. What brand & dosage would you suggest?


Until then. Condoms are the way to go.


And there is also nonoxynyl-9 that can be used in conjunction with condoms. And choosing female partners wisely.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 219
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:05:43 AM

Well, maybe YOU would, but, really, if having a kid is so Gawwwwd-Awful, why do women do it ONCE, let alone numerous times? Kinda stupid, really, if it's so horrible, especially since most females have listened to the horror stories of their mothers, sisters, aunts, friends since before they even knew what a hard penis looked like.


Because of the rewards. Creating our own families. And we tend to forget & gloss over how bad it really was until we are back in the delivery room.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 220
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:20:50 AM
^^^ I am quite educated in how pregnancy works, when you go through infertility & have to resort to Doctors & Clomid to conceive, you end up having so much knowledge on the subject you could write a book about it, thanks for the tip though, will keep it in mind.
 Capitano_Blaugh
Joined: 3/18/2008
Msg: 221
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:38:12 AM

Because of the rewards. Creating our own families. And we tend to forget & gloss over how bad it really was until we are back in the delivery room.


I'm sure you are correct. For women there is a payoff no matter how horrendous the experience. Which is why I say that women are so fatalistic about getting pregnant. Rolling the dice has a payoff even if they throw craps and get "accidentally" pregnant.

Men just plain don't see it like this unless they really want a kid and really love the woman they're banging.

It really ain't rocket surgery....

 smilingrock
Joined: 11/9/2008
Msg: 222
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 7:41:53 AM
After skimming thru some of the posts here single moms think having kids is the greatest thing in the world. Now once they give birth their world changes and they start ****in. Some dont learn from one mistake and continue to reproduce. And of course its always the guys fault for getting them pregnant...
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 223
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 4:44:20 PM
~~~~~~~~~~~
And of course its always the guys fault for getting them pregnant.
~~~~~~~~~~
Who said that? All I've seen any woman say is that it takes 2 and both are responsible.

All I've seen the men say is that it's not their responsibility and it's all the woman's fault.

Of course once we have the children we think it's the greatest thing in the world!! What else could we think???
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 224
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 6:23:45 PM
Who said that? All I've seen any woman say is that it takes 2 and both are responsible.


I have no problem with this premise....but answer me this....how do single mothers suggest they are upholding their responsibilities when based on government statistics...only 50% hold down full time employment?

I would suggest that financial and emotional responsibility is something both are required to illustrate...and suggesting you do not have enough money to eat...does not suggest prudent responsible choices being made to have brought in a innocent child into this world....having so many single custodial mothers being unemployed or not working full time to provide for themselves...let alone their children does not suggest responsible behavior.


Of course once we have the children we think it's the greatest thing in the world!!


of course you would....someone who will show or demonstrate love and affection towards yourself without reservation...without question.

But then some use their children to give them what they are unable to provide themselves.
 Confuzzled4ever
Joined: 6/9/2005
Msg: 225
Why men run at the first sign of pregnancy?
Posted: 6/11/2012 6:53:05 PM
Ok tealwood.. When the NON-CUSTODIAL man will be the one calling out of work to stay home with a sick child, when the NON-CUSTODIAL man will take the day off to take the child to the doctor, when the NON-CUSTODIAL man is the one cooking the dinners and taking the kids to all the activities.. then perhaps the the numbers will rise. When men start taking prevention seriously, and stepping up to the responsibility of raising the child they help create.. maybe the numbers will rise. I'm not referring to the men who do step up. There are still way to many that don't.

That is the only answer. When BOTH parents stick around to support the CHILD the numbers you rely on will improve.

My brother married a single mother.. Her son is severely autistic.. He can't be watched by anyone not certified to care for autistic children. The father takes him for 4 hours a week.. He goes to a special school for autistic children for 5 hours a day. During which is her only time to get anything done, and she has to be available to get to the school if they call as he could have a melt down at any time.

She doesn't' work.. She gets very little help from the father.. What should she do? Hmmm? You have all the answers.. what's the answer??

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having so many single custodial mothers being unemployed or not working full time to provide for themselves...let alone their children does not suggest responsible behavior.
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having so many deadbeat non-custodial fathers not contributing to the upbringing of the offspring they create does not suggest responsible behavior.

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I have no problem with this premise.
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Contrary to just about everything you post right??

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of course you would....someone who will show or demonstrate love and affection towards yourself without reservation...without question.

But then some use their children to give them what they are unable to provide themselves.
~~~~~~~~~~
sigh.. this is so off base.. and such a bitter outlook. Your ex left you to raise your kids. GET OVER IT. She's a bad mother, that doesn't make all of us bad mothers.

**if you can repeat yourself ad nauseam so can I**
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