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Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent      Home login  
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 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 26
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percentPage 2 of 14    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14)
Here's the problem the administation is facing. First of all the president came out and said health care reform would provide coverage to more people at a higher level and would not cost more. After the CBO came out and shot that claim down the president lost a lot of credibility on the issue. The second problem for the administration and democrats in general is current plans being considered takes 100 billion dollars out of Medicare Advantage. 11 million seniors are enrolled in that plan. They like, they'll see benefit reductions, they're mad, and they vote in higher numbers than other demographic groups. So the polls don't accurately reflect the opposition to reform. Look at this way. Who's more likely to vote in 2010? The 25 year old who got all caught up in Yes We Can or a mad as heck senior.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 27
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History
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/25/2009 3:24:04 PM

Here's the problem the administation is facing. First of all the president came out and said health care reform would provide coverage to more people at a higher level and would not cost more. After the CBO came out and shot that claim down the president lost a lot of credibility on the issue. The second problem for the administration and democrats in general is current plans being considered takes 100 billion dollars out of Medicare Advantage. 11 million seniors are enrolled in that plan. They like, they'll see benefit reductions, they're mad, and they vote in higher numbers than other demographic groups. So the polls don't accurately reflect the opposition to reform. Look at this way. Who's more likely to vote in 2010? The 25 year old who got all caught up in Yes We Can or a mad as heck senior.


Do you have sources for 100,ooo billion taken from Medicare Advantage? Is it an estimate our is their data to support it, I would like to see it since you know where it is in the bill maybe you could direct me to the right page
 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 28
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 12:53:04 AM
Do you have sources for 100,ooo billion taken from Medicare Advantage?

Earl you know I do This work for ya?
From the Atlantic
Democrats aim to cut as much as $120 billion from private insurers in Medicare Advantage over 10 years. CBO head Doug Elmendorf told lawmakers that those cuts "could lead many plans to limit the benefits they offer, raise their premiums, or withdraw from the program”
And this from that bastion of right wing conservatism MSNBC
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus is proposing to cut more than $100 billion over 10 years from Medicare Advantage plans.
But wait till this gets out.
Sen. John Ensign (R-Nev.) received a handwritten note Thursday from Joint Committee on Taxation Chief of Staff Tom Barthold confirming the penalty for failing to pay the up to $1,900 fee for not buying health insurance.
Violators could be charged with a misdemeanor and could face up to a year in jail or a $25,000 penalty, Barthold wrote on JCT letterhead. He signed it "Sincerely, Thomas A. Barthold."
http://www.politico.com/static/PPM110_090925_document2.html

maybe you could direct me to the right page

why, you wouldn't read it.
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 29
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History
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 6:42:22 AM

http://www.politico.com/static/PPM110_090925_document2.html

Discusses Sec. 7203 of the Tax Code. (failure to pay taxes).

Nothing more, nothing less, and certainly NOTHING about health care.
 Outdoor2
Joined: 4/1/2006
Msg: 30
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History
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 6:55:49 AM
Re: $120 billion in cuts to Medicare Advantage.

More than 10 million seniors enrolled in an enhanced, private version of Medicare known as Medicare Advantage - including 175,000 in Massachusetts - could see their plans shrink or be replaced with traditional coverage under the health care overhaul plans proposed by Democrats in Congress.

Democrats want to cut Medicare Advantage by more than $120 billion over 10 years. It could leave seniors with fewer boutique Medicare options offered through private insurance companies or with private plans that offer fewer of the extra benefits such plans provide.

Republicans have seized on Medicare Advantage cuts to accuse President Obama of fudging the truth with his oft-repeated pledge that seniors’ Medicare benefits will not be reduced. Under the health care overhaul proposals as written, traditional Medicare would still be open to all Americans age 65 and over, and the standard benefits would not change.

Private insurers can afford to offer extras under Medicare Advantage - such as lower premiums and coverage for eyeglasses and gym memberships - because the federal government pays them about 14 percent more per patient than Medicare typically spends.

Many health policy specialists say that, with Medicare nearing bankruptcy and millions of Americans going without any insurance at all, the United States can hardly afford to offer a pricier Medicare version that is growing more popular.

“The [Medicare Advantage] beneficiaries have gotten a very good deal from these overpayments. These are good services,’’ said Robert Berenson, a health policy specialist at the Urban Institute. “But it’s a very inefficient way to give people extra benefits.’’

The $120 billion cut to Medicare Advantage is part of spending reductions in Medicare totaling $460 billion to $540 billion over 10 years that have been proposed by Democrats. The cuts would fall on the government reimbursement rates for a broad variety of providers such as hospitals and home health agencies, which could probably absorb them without affecting the services elderly Americans receive, many specialists said in interviews.

Though some industry groups complain the spending reductions are too severe, adjustments could be made if problems arose because they would be phased in gradually. Most are aimed at making the programs more efficient.

“We think the proposals actually will improve access and quality,’’ John Rother, a leading lobbyist for the AARP, the large lobbying organization for senior citizens, said in an e-mail.

But Republicans have seized on Medicare spending reductions as a political bludgeon aimed at the health care overhaul.

Seniors are a key constituency, and “scaring seniors’’ with attack ads is a perennial campaign tactic for both parties.

Polls show that Republicans, who began decrying the Democrats’ Medicare proposals last summer, have already helped turn seniors against the president’s health care overhaul.

That is despite the GOP’s own proposals to cut Medicare by 14 percent over seven years in the mid-1990s, said health economist Len Nichols of the New America Foundation, a Washington research group.

The White House is scrambling to fight back. Yesterday it released a seven-page report titled “Health Insurance and Medicare: Making Medicare Stronger for Seniors’’ that emphasizes the upside of a health overhaul: major prescription drug discounts for seniors, free preventive services such as mammograms and colonosopies, and investments in higher quality care.

James Roosevelt Jr., chief executive of Tufts Health Plan, a Massachusetts plan with 83,000 Medicare Advantage subscribers, said the effect of the Medicare Advantage cuts will depend on how they are made.

The House Democrats’ proposal might not dramatically change Tufts’s offerings, he said. But the Senate version would be “quite devastating to what is available to our Medicare Advantage members,’’ he said.

Most of the rest of the Democrats’ Medicare spending reductions involve asking providers to accept a slower-than-expected rate of growth in payments over the next decade.

Some, such as payments to home health care agencies, were previously recommended by the Medicare Payment Assessment Commission.

Stuart Guterman, assistant vice president for the Commonwealth Fund’s payment system reform program, said, “This policy is saying something that providers ought to be able to do.’’

Some specialists worry seniors could be harmed indirectly. Gail Wilensky, who ran Medicare under President George H.W. Bush, notes that many nursing homes depend on getting overpaid by Medicare to offset the stingy payments states provide for Medicaid patients.

Curtailing those overpayments could strain those fragile institutions, she said.

But health policy specialists said the cuts should be considered in the context of a larger problem: Medicare is on the verge of going broke.

“We can think that the status quo means everybody has everything they have now, but that is all in danger if we don’t do anything,’’ Guterman said.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2009/09/24/democrats_seek_cuts_in_medicare_advantage/
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 31
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 8:06:55 AM
Does anyone seriously not get the connection between the outright lies being told about Obama and his poll numbers?
If all you read/heard was gossip/rumor/lies, and didn't bother to look beyond them, wouldn't you believe it?

Simple-minded people stop thinking after they read the morning spam.
Then, they search for a poll to fit the spam.
Then, they spread that misinformation around, thereby contributing to the negativity.

One ugly snowball.
You betcha.
 sum1reel
Joined: 6/5/2005
Msg: 32
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 10:07:50 AM

Most doctors don't want this plan, they know it will ruin healthcare as we know it, and most people are happy with their healthcare as it is.


actually, most doctors do( and always have) wanted a healthcare plan overhaul simply because the Insurance carriers have become obstructionists in the delivery of healthcare in terms of denying what is medically necessary. At the same time, these said companies are using less and less of their healthcare dollars on 'actual' healthcare spending as much of goes to pay dividends, massive CEO salaries, etc.

The only pple who are happy with their healthcare are:
1. our elected leaders who have guaranteed care on a "carte-blanche" plan
2. Those who profit from the pain and misery of others who don't have adequate coverage.
3. Those who work for the healthcare industries (or many of their Shills).
4. Those stupid enuff not to know how easy it is to lose the coverage they currently have, or not knowing how lucky they are...in having the the coverage they now enjoy!
 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 33
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/26/2009 11:57:12 AM

The American Medical Association announces 76% of U.S. physicians are in favor of Obama's health care plan including the public option...


AMA membership is comprised in large part of "physicians" who are either retired, teach, or are engaged in research. Using the AMA as representative of practicing physians is like using AARP to determine the position of senior citizens. Neither can claim to accurately protray the opinions of their respective groups.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 34
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/28/2009 9:42:09 PM


The plan will raise costs"

Prove it... don't just say it... PROVE IT


Have you looked at what he's proposing? He wants to eliminate annual and lifetime caps on insurance coverage. He wants to prevent insurance companies from charging higher rates on people with pre-existing conditions. He also wants to prevent insurance companies from refusing to cover people with pre-existing conditions. He wants to put limits on how much insurance companies can make people pay out-of-pocket.

http://www.healthreform.gov/reports/statehealthreform/massachusetts.html

These "reforms" will cause insurance companies to have higher costs. Do you think that they'll take the financial hit? Neither do I. So either they're going to raise premiums or the government is going to subsidize insurance (which you get the pleasure of paying for on April 15th). If they raise premiums then your company will likely have to pay for much of that increase. Do you think that they're going to take the financial hit? Neither do I. That means that they'll have to raise the cost of their product/service or perhaps lay people off. Once again the people are going to pay for this.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 35
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/28/2009 9:46:23 PM


Statements on past Republican control of our federal government... are made to suggest that they should take their fair share of responsibility... the long standing conservative right approach of cutting taxes and over spending the budget does not work... 28 years of data proves it with the end result being the state of our economy.


That might be what Republicanism is about, but it's got nothing to do with Conservatism. Or are you one of those poor deluded fool who believed Bush (Jr and Sr) when they claimed to be Conservatives?
 laxref41
Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 36
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/30/2009 2:45:22 PM
These "reforms" will cause insurance companies to have higher costs."

And you know this to be a fact based upon?

What Obama has said... hmmm... nope, Obama claims the money will come from waste, inefficiency and fraud in the current system... and CBO backs up that claim.

"If they raise premiums then your company will likely have to pay for much of that increase. Do you think that they're going to take the financial hit? Neither do I. That means that they'll have to raise the cost of their product/service or perhaps lay people off. "

You must be referring to the 420% increases the insurance companies have already made to premiums over the last 10 years... has your compensation increased by 420% over the past 10 years? This is what has caused this crisis in the first place! They've already raised premiums, they've already caused layoffs and you're already paying through the nose! And now you're proposing we continue that way? How about we create a low cost public option and make these insurance companies compete instead of operating in a state-by-state near monopoly?
And just so the point isn't lost... for 8 of the last 10 years, we've had a republican controlled congress and for 6 of those years we had both a republican president AND a republican controlled congress. So who should bear the responsibility for insurance companies operating in a monopoly and increasing premiums by 420%?
 laxref41
Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 37
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/30/2009 2:53:58 PM
"AMA membership is comprised in large part of "physicians" who are either retired, teach, or are engaged in research. Using the AMA as representative of practicing physians is like using AARP to determine the position of senior citizens. Neither can claim to accurately protray the opinions of their respective groups."

So the American Medical Association (with its groups like young physicians, group practice, senior physicians and women physicians... all PRACTICING physicians) does not portray the opinions of doctors and the American Association of Retired Persons does not portray the opinions of retired people? Wow... and conservatives claim that liberals drink kool aid! Staggering.
 laxref41
Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 38
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 9/30/2009 3:14:45 PM
"All of Obama's speeches don't seem to be working for health care. It seems that polls are showing disapproval going up for his health care. In a two month period its gone from a 45% disapproval at the end of July to a now 56% disapproval rating."

Yes, the Christian / Hitler philosophy adopted by the Christian conservative right does work and I quote...

The receptivity of the masses is unlimited, yet their understanding is feeble. Effective propaganda must be confined to stereotypes (i.e. tax and spend democrats). Always focus people's attention on a single foe (Obama as opposed to hitlers jews). Crude simplifications, endlessly repeated will influence the supple (they'll take your money as opposed to hitlers jewish vermin). For the non-supple, the stubborn, terror is necessary (to the elderly - you'll lose what you have).

Is there any proof of these things... no... but the Christian conservative right has never been big on fact or proof... just take it on faith.
 Imported_labor
Joined: 3/7/2008
Msg: 39
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/7/2009 10:10:00 AM

All of Obama's speeches don't seem to be working for health care. It seems that polls are showing disapproval going up for his health care. In a two month period its gone from a 45% disapproval at the end of July to a now 56% disapproval rating


What do you have to say now? The most recent poll shows that things have radically changed since President Obama's address to the joint session of Congress.


The article linked below is indicating that the president has been gaining support from several sectors of the population, especially among senior citizens. So much so that now they are saying that the opposition has mostly been overcome, and the positive numbers are higher than the negatives.


Before his prime-time speech to Congress, 52 percent disapproved of Obama's handling of health care. Now the public is split, with 48 percent approving and 47 percent disapproving.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091007/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_ap_poll_health_care
 imalwayssmiling
Joined: 7/17/2009
Msg: 40
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History
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/8/2009 4:46:24 PM
OP I feel the medical industry and the insurance industry had decades to do the right thing,its very obvious that shy of a cattle prod they will not.I thank God for Obama,its about time we were brilliant enough to vote for a scholar and a man with a plan that tackles ten major problems all at the same time,he's for the people and the opposite of the past administration.Basically those with insurance that is not excluded from pre existing conditions,or don't have $1500 a month insurance now that they are ill,or one of the tens of millions without because they are excluded because of pre existing conditions or cannot afford insurance ,are happy as can be,all the others are not feeling the love !

From day one I have said the polls now read just like the election,no change at all,those that hated Obama then ,still do,Obama in the election last October/November as shown in 16 major polling places rate from 50% to 55% over McCain,so now, how are you all reading these big meanings into the current polls ,he's still is in a range of 50% to 56% in favor,try to remember half liked the Republican McCain ways and half liked Obamas ways.


General Election: McCain vs. Obama

Polling Data

Final Results --Obama (D) 52.9% McCain (R) 45.6% Obama +7.3 Spread

RCP Average 10/29 - 11/03 -- -- 52.1% 44.5% Obama +7.6
Marist 11/03 - 11/03 804 LV 4.0 52% 43% Obama +9
Battleground (Lake)* 11/02 - 11/03 52% 47% Obama +5
Battleground (Tarrance)* 11/02 - 11/03 50% 48% Obama +2
Rasmussen Reports 11/01 - 11/03 52% 46% Obama +6
Reuters/C-SPAN/Zogby 11/01 - 11/03 54% 43% Obama +11
IBD/TIPP 11/01 - 11/03 981 LV 3.2 52% 44% Obama +8
FOX News 11/01 - 11/02 971 LV 3.0 50% 43% Obama +7
NBC News/Wall St. Jrnl 11/01 - 11/02 51% 43% Obama +8
Gallup 10/31 - 11/02 2472 LV 2.0 55% 44% Obama +11
Diageo/Hotline 10/31 - 11/02 50% 45% Obama +5
CBS News 10/31 - 11/02 714 LV -- 51% 42% Obama +9
ABC News/Wash Post 10/30 - 11/02 53% 44% Obama +9
Ipsos/McClatchy 10/30 - 11/02 53% 46% Obama +7
CNN/Opinion Research 10/30 - 11/01 53% 46% Obama +7
Pew Research 10/29 - 11/01 52% 46% Obama +6
 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 41
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/9/2009 6:52:12 AM

So the American Medical Association (with its groups like young physicians, group practice, senior physicians and women physicians... all PRACTICING physicians) does not portray the opinions of doctors and the American Association of Retired Persons does not portray the opinions of retired people?


Post less, research more.
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 42
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/9/2009 6:59:16 AM

Post less, research more.

Demonstration, please.


So the American Medical Association (with its groups like young physicians, group practice, senior physicians and women physicians... all PRACTICING physicians) does not portray the opinions of doctors and the American Association of Retired Persons does not portray the opinions of retired people?


Yes, it portrays the opinions of many, many Americans, and it's one of the things that will help those same Americans understand the need for HCR.
 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 43
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/9/2009 7:10:18 AM

Demonstration, please.

Figured someone would ask. Here is why I am familar with the AMA.

PNEUMOFLEX SYSTEMS LLC is in the Noncommercial Research Organizations industry in MELBOURNE BEACH, FL.

Title: Apparatus and method for self-induced cough cardiopulmonary resuscitation
Patent ID: US7343915
Issue Date: March 18, 2008
PCT Publication Date: January 30, 2003
Abstract:
A apparatus and method for self-treatment of cardiac arrhythmia by a patient, comprising a container sized to be portable by the patient and having therein a chamber containing a medicament composition comprising a pharmaceutically acceptable carrier mixed with a chemoirritant
 geeleebee
Joined: 5/26/2008
Msg: 44
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/9/2009 7:30:30 AM

Post less, research more.



Demonstration, please.




Figured someone would ask. Here is why I am familar with the AMA.


Oh...gosh...I wasn't asking for research...and, really, I don't care 'why' you're familiar with the AMA...I just really liked the idea of telling someone to 'post less' who thought it was okay to tell someone else to 'post less'...see?
 cpfstock
Joined: 11/7/2005
Msg: 45
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/9/2009 7:50:25 AM
Misunderstood you. And perhaps I should have worded it do some research and then post. It's sad really to see how many people respond to issues from an emotional perspective. Usually they're just a reflex. Of course, I guess if you have no real stake in the outcome, then you don't really have to find, analyze, and act on any data.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 46
view profile
History
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/9/2009 2:57:46 PM

Misunderstood you. And perhaps I should have worded it do some research and then post. It's sad really to see how many people respond to issues from an emotional perspective. Usually they're just a reflex. Of course, I guess if you have no real stake in the outcome, then you don't really have to find, analyze, and act on any data.


New keyword " emotional" I was very emotional on the day President Obama took office, the real health care poll was taken Nov 09 when the People elected Barack Obama to be the next President, that means that they must have supported his campaign promises Including his promise to reform health care . After months and months of trying to defeat health care reform the republican party of no have not been able to defeat health care reform.

The polls have undoubedly been effected by the distortions, fabrications and lies promoted by the party of NO but When it is all over and said we will have health care reform, the next really significant poll will be in the 2010 senate elections that's when the same people who elected President Obama will go the voting booths they will remember the distortions and fabrications that they were exposed to and the party of no will see the parties presence in the senate reduced even further.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 47
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/17/2009 12:56:48 AM


What Obama has said... hmmm... nope, Obama claims the money will come from waste, inefficiency and fraud in the current system... and CBO backs up that claim.


Exactly where is this money coming from? How exactly is he going to reduce waste, inefficiency, and fraud?



You must be referring to the 420% increases the insurance companies have already made to premiums over the last 10 years...


Insurance companies only have a 3-4% profit margin. Without the increases in premiums the companies would have gone bankrupt. So instead Obama is going to bankrupt the US.



How about we create a low cost public option and make these insurance companies compete instead of operating in a state-by-state near monopoly?


There is no low cost public option. The public option will add billions, if not trillions, to the nation debt.
 CountIbli
Joined: 6/1/2005
Msg: 48
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/17/2009 1:00:21 AM


The polls have undoubedly been effected by the distortions, fabrications and lies promoted by the party of NO but When it is all over and said we will have health care reform, the next really significant poll will be in the 2010 senate elections that's when the same people who elected President Obama will go the voting booths they will remember the distortions and fabrications that they were exposed to and the party of no will see the parties presence in the senate reduced even further.


When they go to the polls they remember that Obama is an empty suit with no clue how to reform health care or fulfill any of his campaign promises. Expect Republicans to make gains in Congress next year.
 EarlzP
Joined: 12/9/2007
Msg: 49
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History
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/17/2009 4:18:07 AM
no quote] When they go to the polls they remember that Obama is an empty suit with no clue how to reform health care or fulfill any of his campaign promises. Expect Republicans to make gains in Congress next year.

We will have health care reform by the end of 2009 this will be one of a number of highlights of President Obama's presidency, add to that the honor of being in a country whose President won the Nobel Peace Prize. The voters will remember how the republicans tried to keep a well qualified Latino woman from the supreme court and the way they voted against the rape amendment

The republicans can look forward to losing a few more senate seats, I wonder how many more can they afford to lose?
 laxref41
Joined: 7/20/2008
Msg: 50
Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent
Posted: 10/17/2009 8:30:09 AM
"Insurance companies only have a 3-4% profit margin. Without the increases in premiums the companies would have gone bankrupt. "

There in is the nit... insurance companies are forced to increase premiums because health care costs continue to spiral uncontrollably upward... all agree to this fact... and the only way to control such spiralling is a low cost option... be it private or public... but since the net margins aren't there for a low cost private health care company, the only other option we have is a public option... a low level of basic care but nonetheless care for a minimal payment.
Your only alternative is to regulate the health care industry... not the health care insurance industry... but the health care industry... just like regulating utilities.

"So instead Obama is going to bankrupt the US."

Kindly spare us the Christian conservative right unfounded paranoia and fear tactics.
Show ALL Forums  > Politics  > Obama disapproval on health care up to 52 percent