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 the SoldierByte
Joined: 12/25/2005
Msg: 36
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?Page 2 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)

Does this change your mind about spanking your child?

NOPE....
it didn't at the begining of the rant..
and a ranting 94 posts with 238 views later..
my answer is still.. NOPE..!!!
---SoldierByte---
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 40
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/30/2009 6:12:01 PM
closets made good forts, no building involved, lol
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 41
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/30/2009 9:48:54 PM
[ We have tried to talk to them in the past, they'll say they won't do it again.. but you you can't take a childs word as they say one thing and do the exact opposite.]

I have to tell you, I don't think a quick swat is abuse at all, but the quote attributed to you speaks volumes about those who believe that spanking is "effective". Have you ever told your child that you love them & would never do anything to hurt them? If so, then YOU are the reason that your child says one thing & does the opposite; children learn proper behavior by modeling, not physical control. You see, as far as I am concerned (and have seen) spanking does not teach a thing; it hurts, humiliates and makes the child feel powerless. At the very least, spanking does not TEACH proper behavior, spanking appeases the parent & controls behavior, but not long term. Unless of course, one believes that it is proper to hit someone who annoys you or doesn't do what you say, but I'd be surprised if this is what you intend to teach your children. Such methods of "teaching" another adult are termed assault! I don't know of anyone who has actually learned how to behave from being hit. They may learn how NOT to behave, in front of you, at least, but that's about it.

To the poster who stated that spanking "works", well, if you are attempting to raise a violent criminal, it certainly does. As much as I am aware that statistics are used to further both sides of an argument, they are also compilations of data. The data is that nearly ALL those convicted of violent crimes were spanked. True, they may were most likely beaten rather than "spanked" , but for the kids, let's face it, it's relative. If you are hit, you are taught to hit, period. The young child smacked with a hand knows no different than the one beaten with a belt. I don't know if you have kids or not, but if you think physical punishment "works" I question your definition of "works". I will state again that, for short term control, it does work, but as far as discipline or teaching a child proper behavior, it is useless.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 42
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/30/2009 10:31:21 PM
Spagetti, I am surprised at you, as you have displayed far too much intelligence to utter (type) such a ridiculous statement. You know better! Do you think that if I say that all men wearing red pants are felons, then all felons wear red pants? Please don't insult my intelligence! You know very well that is not my point.

My response was clearly to the notion that spanking works. If all felons were spanked, it obviously didn't work for them, as far as behavior modification, or as a tool in teaching proper behavior. Is that clearer?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 43
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/30/2009 11:02:36 PM
It is NOT wrong merely because you are the exception. Besides, if you hit your kids, you HAVE raised a violent hand, now haven't you?

[i like it how "ohwhynot" automatically assumes that if i spank a child that i don't love them nor do i talk to them..what an ignorant ass-hat. I say this over and over AND over again.. my entire family including extended family.. all the members of the family that live in Australia, England and Scotland.. they were ALL spanked... and NONE of them had any kind of attitude problem.. they are ALL successfull and ALL intelligent and NONE of them are criminals.. and i having a bloody big family :)

puts those falsified statistics to shame really.]

I don't assume anything, nor did I ever once state that a parent who spanks their child doesn't love or talk to them. As a matter of fact, I admitted that I have given my own children a swat or two. Your insults directed at me, however, are just as tellng as to your real character as are your posts regarding how children don't respond to your speaking to them. They make one wonder how you speak to your own children. As far as your family, I don't know them. As for you, your attitude is obvious, your intelligence less than impressive and "I having a big bloody family (aside from obvious jokes to be made about them being "bloody") is completely meaningless. In any case, I didn't address you specifically, nor do I care to waste my time doing so. Have a wonderful life!
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 44
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 9/30/2009 11:20:53 PM
[It is NOT relative. Ask anyone that has been beaten and spanked. To compare the two is a little stretchy IMO]

Of course it is relative, to the child. A child hit doesn't know of the child who is hit harder, they only have their own experience to go on. You even said, "ask the child who has been beaten AND spanked" The child who is only beaten knows nothing of spanking, and vice versa. Have you ever looked in the eyes of a child after they have been hit? Shame, shock , fear & often resentment and anger are apparent. It is the result that matters, isn't it?

At the risk of being repetitive, I will say again that a swat is okay, albeit rarely, but it is not discipline, and it is not educational. Like all forms of physicality, it is subject to the "slippery slope". It gets easier, and the swats get harder, as children are controlled for the moment, although less so each time. Not taught, controlled.
 8soldierfalcon8
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 45
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/1/2009 12:11:32 AM
My brother and I both were very violent little boys.

I am not trying to be demeaning or mean spirited here at all.... but I am glad that I got the parents I got and not some of you all...

Or my brother and I both would probably be very bad people right now. Notice I didn't say in prison?

Because fortunately/unfortunately, we were both born very as very intelligent little boys as well.

The only thing I feared and respected was pain. When adults talked at me, not only did I not have any respect for them, but at age 6 I could talk circles around most adults and they would just leave.

I don't think that the caring, sensitive approach works on all children.

That's why ultimately parents should have more rights than they do now. Children are not one, cookie cutter entity. Children are made in all shapes, sizes, and personalities. One approach will not work for every child.

Just my .02.

PS - my little brother was almost never spanked. He tried to kill me the first time when he was 5 or 6.

;)
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 49
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/1/2009 8:10:45 AM
Eh i guess it depends on what you want in society. Me? I'm glad Patton was spanked. Yet again, while i don't always agree with 8sf8, he's right on this issue, NOT every child is the same. Each responds to different stimuli and you leave it to the parent to decide.

As for each felon being spanked, again, correllation not causation as spag pointed out. Most of our greatest leaders were too, corporal punishment isn't for everyone, but i respect the right of a parent to do what they think is right for THEIR children. WE NEED some violence in this society of ours, don't fool yourselfs.

Look at 8sf, he was spanked, and i'd bet my house that he is former military. Violence directed in a proper manner not only isn't a bad thing, it's NECESSARY that we have these people capable of violence to PROTECT you that aren't. This PC cookie cutter shiny happy people shit isn't the solution. I don't WANT all our kids prozac'd out and singing kumbaya or whatever the hell it is.

This world is inherently violent, spanking doesn't necessarilly create the evils of the world. The greatest generation was spanked, all our WW2 vets, vietnam vets, hell even our desert storm and op iraqi freedom vets probably were.

Spanking isn't for everyone, that doesn't mean it isn't for ANYONE.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 53
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/1/2009 11:13:17 AM

I don't see why the Government shouldn't extend the same basic human rights afforded to adults to children.


Which basic rights? Is it ok for your 9 year old to have consensual sex with another 9 year old? Drink? Drive? Vote? Get a job? Get married?

"Rights" have responsibilities. Responsibilities children can not possibly be expected to uphold. Educating yourself to vote for example. Children are CHILDREN. Thats why they don't have all the human rights, they aren't ready.

You go ass backwards and allow them to sue you in canada for example because dad grounded his daughter and wouldn't let her go on a school field trip, little girl sues and WINS in court. Amazing. Parents are responsible for the actions of their children legally as well, because children know not what they do.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 54
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/1/2009 11:20:09 AM
Spanking is for the poor:

The remote dog training collar is one of the most effective, simplest and most humane training aids. The remote dog training collar is placed on a dog`s neck, allows a trainer to deliver small static shocks* (occasionally referred to as shock collars) of varying strength by remote control. The correction the dog gets from the remote dog training collar is no different than walking on the carpet and touching your friend. The benefits of working with a remote dog training collar is the trainer can immediately correct a dog`s mistakes at a distance far greater than leash training allows.

Replace the word dog with the word kid and you will soon understand why there is no reason to ever spank your kids again. Taser guns for the teen years work well too. Peace out.
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 56
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/2/2009 10:58:28 AM
Because your child acts like all? Because all parents parent the way you and your ex choose to?

It's not for every kid, that doesn't mean it isn't for ANY kid. 5/7 days is extreme, i don't know any kids that act up that much.

Of course she doesn't want to live with him, one parent spanks, the other talks about feelings, which is EASIER for the child? Easier doesn't always equal better.

Not for nothing, but she scratched his face, and thats cool with you? He seems a little liberal with the spankings for certain, but i mean your kid scratches adults? Then you "rescue her" from the evil daddy and then tout how she doesn't want to live with him?

Is there more to the story that would make scratchin him ok that you didn't mention?
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 57
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/2/2009 12:18:09 PM
In what learning process does the first try teach the full lesson future? Theres a fortune to someone that figures out how to teach a kid ANYTHING the first time, no matter what discipline.

Timeout doesn't work the first time either, no methods are catch alls.

I don't believe in spanking my kids, but i don't begrudge others the right to parent the way they see fit.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 61
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/2/2009 7:38:56 PM

One of the purposes of peer review is to make sure factors such as these are taken into account. If an important variable known to impact cognitive development were not controlled for, it would have thrown the entire study into question immediately.

Listen, it is obvious why so many of you are trying to refute a hundred years of research findings. It is because most of you have either spanked your children on occasion, or spank your children regularly, and you don't want to think you have done anything to harm your children. I don't blame you.

Number one, peer review is not designed to determine whether a study has taken the proper number of variables into account because the controls are a choice of the researchers. It is designed to ensure that the scientific method is being followed and that people are not reporting research findings that are untrue by slanting the results to support a hypothesis when the data does not. People don't ask journals for permission to do studies, their work is evaluated for its integrity, and if there are problems with design, that they are delineated in the discussion or conclusion sections of the study.

What you will not admit because you don't really seem to understand the studies is that very often the variables and other confounding information is not discovered until later on; hence one of the reasons that any psychological study begins by discussing previous research to identify the strengths and weaknesses of the existing studies. I have yet to read a study that does not only admit research flaws and potential bias in the study but points out because of something they uncovered, areas of additional study that should be pursued. And to fail to recognize that income, cultural background and any number of things could account for lower IQs and assume that the researchers used subjects from a wide swath of the population and statistically evaluated the data based on umpteen factors is naive at best.

These were school populations, were they taken from lower, middle and upper income neighborhoods? Were they taken from the north, south, east and west regions of the country. Was their any attention to the racial and ethnic make-up of the subjects? Were the children evaluated for nutrition, education level of parents, number of siblings, the presence of extended family, yada, yada, yada? To suggest that any study has taken ALL of these factors (and those were a tiny few) into account is ludicrous, it is why there are so many different studies with different designs basically evaluating the same thing, so that with volume and as the community works through all of the things that can impact outcome one single factor might really be isolated and you do not do this based on one study or assume that all of the factors have been evaluated just because there have been many studies on a different topic.

Two, when someone quotes studies without considering all of these factors, I will comment on it regardless of the topic that is being studied. I believe that I noted more than once in this thread that I do not know one single person that does not believe that not spanking children is better. I believe that this has been established throughout this thread by numerous people. If spanking was the only factor, there would be no difference in the IQ gap between the younger and the older children; if IQ alone was responsible for the deficit in testing it would remain constant as the child aged. Simple logic dictates that being in school for a couple more years mitigated any IQ deficit caused by spanking. Did the study ask why? I would assume that one of the reasons is that the children are being stimulated intellectually in a different way in school than they are at home because I would suspect that those children whose IQ improved are still being spanked, no? Otherwise they would have been lumped in with the control group.

I also never said that there weren't negative affects of spanking but would like to see additional research to determine whether this bears out given socio-economic status and many, many other factors.

A hundred years of research? Okie dokie and your condescending attitude because someone says something that you disagree with is way beyond old. The public has been educated and people make the choices that work for them and their children. Perhaps you should stick to educating people that actually believe that spanking is a superior form of discipline. I don't believe that anyone has advocated spanking as a superior form of discipline, if that is the case, could someone quote that post?

Whether you are an author or you intend to work with people, acting like they are stupid because they don't agree with you is not a particularly effective manner of making your viewpoints known and definitely not conducive to someone actually listening to what you say. This would beg the question of the point of your argument other than being right and another opportunity to be judgmental.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 62
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/2/2009 8:11:06 PM

She got more upset and more resistent to putting on the coat and it escalated. He picked her up and she scratched him in the face

Itsallin, I am sure this was a horrible experience for you. My ex is the type of person that doesn't get that the best method in a way is outsmarting the child by figuring out how to promote the cooperation, my middle one in particular is that way and their father is an escalator.

I do wonder after reading that post did you speak to your daughter because wouldn't you be mortified if your daughter scratched another child intentionally? Would it upset you if despite your efforts to not put her in a position to become angry, she intentionally scratched you? Maybe I had some kind of scratching incident or something but that seems a more passionate expression than hitting of anger.

Two of my kids have hit their father, the oldest and the youngest, primarily out of frustration because he will continue to verbally abuse them and they get so frustrated because he literally won't shut up. His behavior is totally unacceptable particularly from a 55-year-old man to taunt a child for sometimes a half hour or more and in particular with my son, to continue to escalate when he is obviously losing control of his emotions. But their behavior is also not acceptable, not because he is their father, but because they should never allow someone else's behavior to impact how they conduct themselves. Both had the ability to walk away although the 10-year-old obviously isn't capable of the same reasoning as the 17-year-old. Frustrating for me because I am unable to get child or adult to disengage.

My children are not spanked in anger and the few times they have been spanked they will continue doing whatever they are doing when they have been told more than once if they continue doing what they are doing they will be spanked. Also, these are behaviors that they know are unacceptable, not a new behavior that needs to be explained. I just asked my daughter for an example because I honestly cannot remember the last time I spanked one of my children. She had to think about it because it has been quite a long time but she believes that she was spanked when she was talking back, had been asked to stop several times and refused to stop arguing and talking back. She wasn't spanked in anger and essentially chose the spanking.
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 65
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/3/2009 5:40:46 AM

It is interesting to watch (as sad and painful as it is to watch) how she will treat me with a greater deal of respect than she does her father. Respect is earned though, especially from a child. A parent can use fear to garner what seems like respect but the more afraid she becomes, the more beligerant she gets....it is who she is...she is a fighter like her parents.

Totally agree with that. Their dad believes he should automatically get respect because he is their dad, I perceive it in his case as more the automatic respect I expect my children to give other adults. I don't think you can expect children to respect you when you don't treat them with respect.


The two of them do at times get along well but she is often times quite rude with him. I correct her whenever I see her behaving this way towards him but honestly, I can't fix their relationship for them....that is his responsibility. Everything I do with her is to try and get her not to engage her father because I know that she will lose every time. She is just so damn stubborn....it is almost like she wants him to hurt her. I seriously don't get it.

Toots I suspect that one is as easy as the whole doing negative things to get attention. My mother is an interesting character and we have concluded that she doesn't think people love her unless she is fighting with them. She perceives him as being a hateful asshat to the people he loves, ergo the more negative attention from him the more he loves her because there hasn't been much of the positive attention for her to think she can have that kind of relationship with him.


I have been called over to his home by him many times to "rescue her" (his words, not mine). I have offered to take more time with her to give him a break from her....most of the time he takes me up on it. He knows where I will draw the line on supporting him. He pushes my limits intentionally as well, I have little doubt, it is who he is...he likes to trigger emotional responses in people.

Been there done that, read above and add the ex-husband in my case. Nothing worse for a control freak than encountering someone they cannot control.

In re to her request and difficulty in dealing with her father, have you tried counseling, perhaps if a child psychiatrist were to talk to her about her father you might be able to amend the custody agreement so that it is just every other or maybe 3 weekends a month so you wouldn't lose all of your weekend time but he could still spend quality time with her. That might be better for him because it might be easier not to get into it if he didn't have her 50% of the time?

As for your sanity with the current status quo, don't think in terms of him getting it together before it is too late with him; too far into the future type thinking and also, totally out of your control. You can't control him, you can't control her, give her tools to deal with things as best you can but try not to look too far forward or too far back. Even if it isn't until she is pretty much an adult, it's never too late for something unless someone is dead. I think if my ex ever stops being a douche he will find that his kids will forgive him for being a jackass during their formative years.

We have had many discussions about how holding onto stuff, anger in particular, hurts them more than it ever will their dad and they need to forgive him for their own benefit so they aren't carrying that crap around. Obviously a convo yours is too young for but if things don't change, that is something I would focus on teaching her because even if it weren't her father, and it wasn't significant anger, learning to let go is one of the things most of us grown-ups continue having difficulty with. I figure with mine, if they can learn it 20 years earlier than I did....
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 66
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/3/2009 6:11:32 AM
"I have discussed with my daughter that hands are for helping, not hurting."

Keep her out of MMA or the kids that know better will kill and then eat her. You see with proper training hands and feet can bring on the hurt. Why are you clouding her young mind with bad info.
 cuntrygal09
Joined: 3/10/2009
Msg: 67
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/3/2009 7:16:32 AM
o thats bs my mom and dad tore my ass up WHEN i needed it.. when a child needs a spankin they need it thats whats wrong with our freakin society today no discipline! hell im 23 n cant meet a decent guy my age the only ones ive found or older men and hey i like that.. but dont tell me that whoopin my kids will lower their iq. like i said i got whoopins through high school and i passed with flyin colors and in college now.. if my iq was low dont think i could be a single mother in college full time now could i? that professor needs to redo his research.. so when ur 3 yr old looks at you and calls you stupid mommy or daddy or cusses at you or evn hits you and tells you to shut up what do u do? me i pop them and send them to their room for time out and i talk to them afterwards.. the day he called me stupid mommy and i tore him up he has yet till this day called me that again.. think his iq is higher than we think huh? and at the age of 2 he knew which key it was to unlock my car door and which key went to the ignition.. and how to work the dvd player and turn the volume up on the tv and change the channel.. i dont beleive this research at all i think this professor is a bunch of crock
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 70
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/3/2009 9:30:55 AM
"You do realize we are talking about a 4 year old, right?"

and she does not know how to take down other kids yet? WTF she will never be king/queen of the play ground. That should be a fully developed skill set well before the age of four. You are a bad mom.
 JMars
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 75
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/3/2009 3:13:42 PM
I think this is all bogus B.S. Of course, I'm feeling rather negative today.

As a parent spanking IS part of my arsenal. But mostly I actually spend time, daily, with my son, share and discuss all manner of things with him, and most importantly I behave in a manner I would like my son to emulate. We are all a buncha primates afterall, and monkey-see-monkey-do is the rule that we all ultiamtely harken to. You might be able to bullshit yourself, but don't think for a minute you can bullshit your kid.

Too many people like to think that there are easy answers, so they can get around to all of the other things they would rather be doing than raising the children they brought into this world. But life isn't easy. Relationship aren't easy. And raising children is no exception.

If people would work on their relationships or their children as hard as they work to accumulate material things, and maintianing an image that they are something that they are not, we'd all be living in a much better world.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 78
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/3/2009 5:01:38 PM
I guess the answer to the original question is no, nothing will change the mind. So many seem so defensive & hell bent on either putting others down or defending their own belefs about spanking, that they refuse to make even the smallest concession. This is sad, but worse are those who actually seem proud of beating (yes, beating, in the particular instances I am referring to: paddles, "azz whoopins", etc.). I admit that I am not big on spanking, while admitting that I have, on ocassion chosen to do so.

Personal beliefs and experience aside, there are a few things here that I find disturbing. It is abhorrent behavior to strike a 2 or 3 yr-old child, period. There is absolutely no way that they can learn proper behavior this way at that age. The world is very small to a child that age, and the only way to teach right from wrong is to explain it in terms they can understand, over and over again (much like the 2 yr-old who can work a VCR, from seeing you do so over & over, also speaking to modeling, which IS how children learn to behave, whether one wants to admit it or not). Consequences are only learned when they relate to the offense; writing on the wall results in having to clean it or losing the privilege of having crayons for a day or so, not physical punishment.

Believe what ever you'd like about spanking, but please don't call it discipline; discipline is character building. Frankly, if any of you believe that hitting anyone builds their character, you're an idiot. There is no need to excuse your behavior, but blatant ignorance screams. Spanking your children is not a mere personal preference, it is a conscious choice. In my opinion, it is the choice of those who are self absorbed, too lazy to try other less convenient methods or not interested in educating themselves. I am not convinced that the spanking alone proves anything about IQ, but I would challenge some of those die hard spankers to try some other method suggested in ANY book, and see if there is a difference in your child's behavior.
 LovelyTisha
Joined: 3/13/2009
Msg: 80
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/4/2009 3:27:05 PM
I wonder how he chose the children who were tested, what their parents' IQs were in relationship to one another at the outset of the testing, and whether or not the children had the same teachers or curriculum in school. Additionally, what type of IQ test was used and did he find that the differences could also be connected to race, religion, ethnicity, poverty, or other indicators that could also have effected the outcome? I hate flashpan studies like this because they're printed all over the place before the outcomes are reproduced by other researchers. That's part of scientific inquiry - results have to be reproduceable by others.

I spanked my sons when they were younger and both are among the brightest in their classes. My 5th grader reads at the 11th grade level and my kindergartner is being tested using second and third grade material. The whole post tramatic sydrome points to beatings rather than spankings. My kids don't imagine "bad things" are going to happen to them. They always knew why they were getting spanked and it was always tied to them making a poor choice regardless of the consequences.

I'd say that before I gave these "findings" any weight I'd have to see a whole body of evidence that showed that the spankings in and of themselves were the IQ-lowering factor, rather than other factors like parent IQ, an IQ test's cultural bias, differing educational opportunities, and poverty.
 Tealwood
Joined: 12/16/2008
Msg: 81
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/4/2009 3:32:18 PM

Believe what ever you'd like about spanking, but please don't call it discipline; discipline is character building. Frankly, if any of you believe that hitting anyone builds their character, you're an idiot. There is no need to excuse your behavior, but blatant ignorance screams. Spanking your children is not a mere personal preference, it is a conscious choice. In my opinion, it is the choice of those who are self absorbed, too lazy to try other less convenient methods or not interested in educating themselves. I am not convinced that the spanking alone proves anything about IQ, but I would challenge some of those die hard spankers to try some other method suggested in ANY book, and see if there is a difference in your child's behavior.


Got to love the ones who have a sense of higher morality or understanding.

I was spanked growing up. I was given the strap at school numerous times starting in grade 1 and the last time in gr 8.

Discipline or teaching students or individuals consequences is all part of the process that has been part of society. Now you may feel it is the lazy or choice of the self absorbed...but for some it might be a viable or last ditch effort.

I had plenty of visits to the office where I would have to sit and be seen by the school standing at detention. People thing that works...or see at as a badge on honour!

Or the effort of touching the student on the shoulder,,,getting down and using the "I" message.....all things that some will look at with disdain and amusement and realize..we got this one and will see just how far we can pull their chain.

I happen to think spanking is often used by some far too often and as a tool perhaps to not discipline the child but to release frustration.

But one does need or require to be able to command respect to have discipline. Two teachers I had the greatest respect for could or would knock your head if you crossed over the line to often. And one was a woman.

And still a few who loved handing out detentions or using the strap themselves....they would be fair game...tormenting or disrupting their classes just because we could...

and our parents.....the issue was just how far we could go without losing privileges or avoiding the spanking.

Consequences are part of discipline.....the problem when it is used as a first action rather than a last resort is it loses its effectiveness.

But perhaps we can have some more dialogue and we can illustrate further who should or should not be called "idiot"

LOL...are you one of those who suggest giving time outs???? or removing some privileges????That does work for some...but not all.....
 LovelyTisha
Joined: 3/13/2009
Msg: 82
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/4/2009 4:25:43 PM
I've also witnessed the fact that children now think that they are completely "untouchable." As a middle school teacher, I've had students tell me "No" when I ask them to come over. They even run away from me and laugh because they know that the greatest consequence if I manage to catch up to them or find them will be a lunchtime detention. Their parents obviously failed completely to teach them any form of discipline or respect. I'm guessing these children come from homes where there is a lot of talk about right and wrong and no action to enforce normal social interactions. These are the same kids who admit to cussing at their parents with no recourse. There is a time and place for talking and there is a time and place for action. Taking away spanking as a tool for parents to use responsibly would be rediculous and would further condemn our kids to a lifetime of anti-social behavior.

One time I was watching a neighbor's two children and we were at a Rowland Raiders football practice. His mother is a big believer in "talking it out." He spit at his brother. When I called him over to stand next for me for time out, he started screaming and spitting. I called all the kids over and said we had to leave. He wouldn't come along, so I took his hand to lead him. He started kicking me and scratching me and spitting at me and trying to bite me. At this point, we had a huge audience and this man came over and said, "You want me to spank him for you? He seems to need an attitude adjustment." I told him, "He's not mine, 'cause if he was, I would've already spanked him." My kids never act out like that, especially in public. They knew from early on that I would not hesitate to help them correct their out of control behavior with a controlled swat on the bottom. I'm not talking about "kicking their asses," I'm talking about a controlled situation where they completely understand why they are receiving a spanking. They are intelligent, well-adjusted, social boys and I don't regret spanking them early on. I'm certain that they're better for it.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 83
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/4/2009 8:54:07 PM
[Discipline or teaching students or individuals consequences is all part of the process that has been part of society.]

But that is my point. In teaching children proper behavior & consequences, I simply don't see how spanking could work. Of course consequences are part of discipline, but being hit is NOT the consequence for any behavior that I know of, except of course striking someone. What exactly is wrong with making the consequence relate to the behavior? Do you really believe that hitting a child who has drawn on the wall with crayons teaches them not to do so, more than making them clean it up, or losing the privilege of drawing for a day or so, or is it simply easier to hit them?

Being seen by the school, as mentioned, is at least using peer pressure, which works on at some children. As for the last ditch effort, I agree, spanking is useful to stop a particular behavior immediately, or to relieve the frustration of a parent. I still don't see where anyone has shown that spanking TEACHES. Again, a means of control, not discipline & not educational.

As you have singled me out, I don't believe that time out teaches a thing, either. Time out is for the parent to collect themselves enough to NOT hit their child, and for the child, time to get themselves under control. Not always terribly effective, but might save a kid a bruise or two, as I was directly addressing those who advocated (if you read my post in its entirety and in context) "azz whoopins" and the use of paddles, straps, etc.; not mere spanking, actual beating, yes, violence, no matter how you disguise it.
You quoted me as saying that I suggest the die hard spankers employ some other means, any other means, to teach their child proper behavior. This makes me an idiot? If you have to spank your child often, it obviously doesn't work. What is wrong with at least trying something else, rather than simply bashing those who make suggestions?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 84
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/4/2009 9:14:30 PM
[Spanking doesn't teach, the parent teaches. The spanking is just a practice used during the teaching of the lesson. It's like saying you don't know what a skeleton teaches. The teacher pointing out where the tibia and femur are is what's doing the teaching.]

Please then, provide me an analogy akin to the skeleton for what spanking teaches. I have to tell you, I can't get any further than that spanking teaches "if I do that, I'll get hurt". That's teaching?!
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