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 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 85
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?Page 3 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)

Please then, provide me an analogy akin to the skeleton for what spanking teaches. I have to tell you, I can't get any further than that spanking teaches "if I do that, I'll get hurt". That's teaching?!


techically yes it is. if you don't do it again , then you learned, and if you do it again you didn't learn. Nobody said it was the best teaching method, just that it is a teaching method.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 86
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/4/2009 9:24:32 PM
Once again, though, WHAT does it teach? If we as parents are obligated to teach proper behavior, even if spanking works as you say, it still doesn't teach kids HOW TO behave.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 87
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/4/2009 9:37:34 PM
not that I condone it but I'm just answering your question.


<div class="quote">Once again, though, WHAT does it teach? If we as parents are obligated to teach proper behavior, even if spanking works as you say, it still doesn't teach kids HOW TO behave.

Sure it teaches how to behave. example:
johnny if you use foal language you will get spanked.
If he doesn't use foal language, he learned and doesn't get spanked and is better behaved.

johnny, if you scream and howler in the store you will get spanked.
if he doesn't, then he learned and doesn't get spanked and is better beahved.


the thing about spanking is that it doesn't happen much if the kid learns the first time that the parent is serious. After that just the thought of it is enough to deter bad behaviour.

and like that guy said it's the parent teaching not the spanking
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 89
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/5/2009 4:59:24 PM

Most people going to college have already graduated by age 23, and they don't have 2 illegitimate children at such a young age, if ever.

For the love of God can we dispense with this term? You think you are denigrating the parents but you are really devaluing the life of an innocent child that despite being born into not optimal circumstances may grow up to make huge contributions to society and given the fact that marriage doesn't guarantee squat, what is the point of ALWAYS having to point this out to somehow differentiate this between other parents?


I GUARANTEE that NONE of you thought/felt/believed you DESERVED it.. at the time.

That would be a bullshit guarantee because every single time I was spanked as a kid it was because of something I chose to do when I knew it was wrong, i.e. by making that choice I invited the consequence on myself.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 90
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/5/2009 5:14:46 PM
packagedeal, thanks

I was going to respond, but not quite as nicely

And I knew what I was getting every time I did something wrong as a kid and as an adult.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 91
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/5/2009 6:24:29 PM
[I already said... spanking doesn't teach anything, the parent does. So no matter what I say, you won't understand because you're too focused on your own bias.]

Lest you forget, I admit that I HAVE spanked my own children. It's not bias, it is a thirst for knowledge. What is it that a parent who spanks a child is teaching them, and HOW does the spanking teach, in regards to other teaching methods ? Please enlighten me.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 92
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/5/2009 7:37:07 PM
I am sorry, but I disagree that is the same as taking away a privilege that RELATES to the offense. Consequences that bear no relation to the offense teach nothing. It IS different in that it requires less thought, less time & less caring on the part of the parent. As I have stated, spanking isn't always abuse, but it IS always quick & convenient. Where in life, other than as a defenseless child, is hitting the consequence for any action? In the "real world" please provide me an example where the consequence for any action (other than the initiation of physical violence) is physical violence? As a teen, is the consequence for not doing one's homework a spanking? Is the consequence for not following directions on a test a spanking? Is the consequence for not showing up for work a spanking? Can you cite even one potential "violation" of rules/laws in civilized society where the consequence is a spanking?

This has gotten so far off topic, but I dare say that the attitudes of many have compelled me to argue my point; spanking is for the parent, NOT to teach the child! Spanking is about controlling behavior in the moment, not necessarily unwarranted, but not a method of teaching. It teaches nothing about how TO behave, but how NOT to behave, in front of a particular person.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 93
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/5/2009 7:52:46 PM
excellent point hooked and happy
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 94
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/5/2009 8:20:37 PM
[So... I agree with the use of spanking if that's how you choose to discipline (yes, I said discipline) your kid. That must mean that I'm right and your wrong. I mean, that's the premise your going by, so why can't I]

It is NOT my premise, but I have yet to read a post which shows what or how spanking actually teaches a thing. Like many of the topics brought up on the forums, this post has only provide fodder for argument, rather than thought. I am simply challenging anyone who advocates spanking as a teaching method to show HOW it teaches! Simply stating that one wishes to be spanked instead of dealing with the actual consequences of a particular behavior furthers that end not at all. Most of us would rather be spanked than fail to achieve success as a result of never having learned the real consequences of our actions, but that doesn't mean that is it preferable. Frankly, I have yet to read one intelligent post answering the question posed. I have not once stated that spanking, in combination with actual teaching, is wrong, yet I am bombarded with attacks and no answers! The hard line I have taken has been directed toward those who seem to feel that using a belt on a two yr-old for writing on the wall is discipline, and I will continue to say bull s h i t! Hitting someone does not build character, which is within the scope of discipline. Choosing to ignore the experts on every level does nothing but exhibit ignorance and laziness. There are far too many kids who are "unreachable" at Kindergarten age, and nearly every one of them is hit at home. For many who ascribe to spanking as discipline, it is the ONLY means of discipline they employ. It is very easy to turn a blind eye to the facts, satisfying the need to excuse one's behavior and put down those who challenge you to think, or to try other methods and measure the degree of success.
Your attitude only provides fodder for my argument' "what I say goes"; THAT is what spanking teaches; no need to try & elevate oneself, is there? Thanks!
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 95
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/5/2009 8:43:00 PM
Sorry, I agree with hooked and happy. My intellect has not suffered, or it was way beyond imaginably impressive beforehand and I don't remember any of the spankings I had as a kid outside the fact that I was never spanked when I hadn't been told numerous times to do or not do something and ignored what I already knew to do.

I do remember my mother making me feel like a piece of shit for the last 45 years, I would rather have been spanked every day.

And realistically, a spanking is not designed as a teaching tool, nor is any other type of punishment, punishment is designed to deal with unacceptable behavior.

Teaching time is when you are using the world around you for object lessons and taking the time to talk to your children.


There are far too many kids who are "unreachable" at Kindergarten age, and nearly every one of them is hit at home. For many who ascribe to spanking as discipline, it is the ONLY means of discipline they employ. It is very easy to turn a blind eye to the facts, satisfying the need to excuse one's behavior and put down those who challenge you to think, or to try other methods and measure the degree of success.

This is the biggest load of horse shit I have heard in my life. The vast majority of people I know who do spank do so when all other means of discipline have been exhausted and here's a news flash, some kids will push and push and push, at what point does one establish the pecking order? Most parents that spank also do many other things to maintain discipline and teach their children right from wrong, their bag is not empty when spanking is pulled out. I'm not turning a blind eye to facts nor am I excusing my own behavior because I have nothing to excuse. And I can assure you if I asked my daughter right now if she would rather have a spanking or me be angry with her it would be the former rather than the latter.

And btw, my mother taught kindergarten for 30 years, any kid who is "unreachable" is not getting spanked, they are getting the crap knocked out of them, big difference.

You expect those opposed to your opinion to listen to what you have to say while throughout you have not bothered to listen to what anyone else has had to say because you disagree with it. Several of your posts have intimated if not overtly stated that anyone who spanks their child is a bad parent. Get a mirror and keep track of those stones.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 98
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/7/2009 8:59:33 PM
These forums can be so frustrating! I won't waste time responding to personal digs at me, as they are of no importance to this discussion; my harsh comments were directed at those who advocated belts & fairly extreme beatings (yes, beatings, if you reread some of the posts), often, & especially toward the young child. Conscious Soul's last post, however, has much of importance to say.

Punishment is suffering or loss as a means of retribution, consequence is the result of one's actions. Teaching a child that there are consequences (actual consequences, which follow naturally, in the real world, outside of the parent/child relationship) results in learning. Retribution is something demanded. That is why I feel that spanking, in the context of parent/child relationship does not teach; it is only in the context of this relationship that it is meaningful. Elsewhere in the world, the act of laying your hands on someone else to show them that their behavior is unacceptable is a crime, not a teaching tool.

While spanking may not always be wrong, per se, as a method of teaching and especially in the context of the relationship, I do believe that it does more harm than good. It breaks down the trust between a parent and a child. I do not claim to be an expert, or perfect, but I can attest to the fact that my own children are respectful of authority and know the difference between right & wrong, without living in fear (at least of me, Freddie is another story ).
 packagedealx3
Joined: 2/4/2006
Msg: 100
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/8/2009 12:30:52 PM

Punishment is suffering or loss as a means of retribution, consequence is the result of one's actions.

Fair enough but there are also people that believe a time out is punishment rather than a consequence and it is psychologically damaging to a child because by sitting them in the corner and not speaking to them for the duration of the time-out is withholding your love.

If a child knows that the consequence of continuing the behavior is the time out I don't see this as punishment but some people do.

And CS, if you remember screaming and crisis, you weren't describing a spanking, this is a beating. The times I was spanked as a child I knew it was the direct result of my doing something I knew better than to do.

Another example the child that won't behave at dinner. I never had this problem, didn't even have to threaten the kids with taking them to the car while everyone else ate but this is a position that is advocated by most child development experts. Tell them that if they do not behave, they will not be allowed the privilege of eating the meal at the restaurant. This is punishment in the sense that I think most people allow the meal to be boxed up and the kid eats at home, so the kid gets to eat, just not the "treat" of eating in public. It is imo more of a punishment for the parent that doesn't get to enjoy the dinner out. But it is also a consequence that they were told would happen if they continued to choose to behave inappropriately. Again, some people could view it as a punishment rather than a consequence. My kids were told to knock it off, the other people didn't pay for their dinner to be ruined by kids behaving badly and that usually worked and after they hit a certain age, the convo wasn't even necessary, we often had compliments about the way the children behaved.

I can guarantee you my children have not liked punishments they have received whether it was confiscating things they enjoyed, a time-out, a grounding or whatever but they would all admit even if grudgingly that they deserved the punishment because of the choice(s) they made. I don't think they are psychologically damaged by the punishment because they do/did have control over the outcome. They made a choice, they should deal with the consequences otherwise you are creating a pretty unrealistic world for them to emerge from.
 dev1968
Joined: 9/15/2009
Msg: 101
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/8/2009 3:57:53 PM
I say this. I believe the child disciplined might grow smarter in time considering the gap was closing within such a short period of time (according to the article.) Science is bull crap anyways. Simply put, they do their own studies, do their own results, and they all want to make a name for themselves in theory anyhow. I was spanked my whole life, ive been through five years at the university, and my GPA is a 3.98.. what are your childrens IQ after college-- the ones who never spanked their kids? this article is retarded. Its along the same lines as a CPS case-- the crack heads get their children back time after time, and the poor folks trying to do right have them taken away. Should do a study on CPS cases, she wouldnt have wasted her time with traumas cause n effect; she might have proved something all of us who have common sense already knew. Natural Consequences is ok, but lacks teaching before the child is hurt. Natural consequence says--- allow the child to reach up and touch the hot burner---youll learn not to do that again... better yet... I went to a child development class at my daughters school, the teacher of the class preached how she was a parenting professional. She stated the natural consequence objective and how it worked: Spanking was bad, not useful, and created emotional problems, there is better ways. One day in class she stated she had her daughter going to a psychologist because of her behavior-- are you kidding me. A parenting professional sending their child to a psychologist because they didnt know how to discipline... yikes!!!! left that class with a lot of other parents and never returned.. medication isnt the route either. thats another good study for scientists--- how many kids are medcated so parents dont have to discipline them according to their own actions. I have a great idea--let me raise my child the way I want and you yours--half the problem with kids these days is they have no discipline... laters
 dev1968
Joined: 9/15/2009
Msg: 102
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/8/2009 3:59:47 PM
Canada is socialistic in its laws... you are subjects in canada, not citizens... big difference
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 103
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/8/2009 10:21:12 PM
[So... in the real world... what's the natural consequence for abusing a child? Going to jail? You wouldn't throw a child in jail, would you? So if you wouldn't throw a child in jail, why would you throw an adult in jail? What does jail teach? It's just a punishment... a means of retribution.]

Sorry to say, but I find your logic faulty. Yes, the consequence for ABUSE is punishment, and it should be. But children aren't adults. Adults are expected to know better, as a result of having been TAUGHT how to act in civilized society. I imagine the CONSEQUENCE of abusing a child is having to live with the fact that you have raised a human being who is not capable of living within the societal/emotional confines of the civilized world, but I don't see how it is pertinent to the discussion, nor do I expect that those to whom it pertains would realize it as such . I have gotten the impression, all along, that you were advocating (or at least defending) spanking. Are you now calling it abuse? Teaching children ONLY physical means of control is abuse, but I have never said that spanking is ALWAYS wrong, only that it doesn't teach, and that I don't believe it is discipline, but rather control and self serving for the parent. Never have I nor anyone else intimated that jail is meant to teach.

I am left to ponder the need for attack. Too many spankings, perhaps? Forgive my sarcasm, it is late.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 104
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/8/2009 11:11:24 PM
[I don't see how that is more productive than a "retributive" punishment such as an enforced "time out" - a/k/a imprisonment or false imprisonment (not a natural consquence).]

My understanding of time out, as it was invented, is that it is not meant for retribution, and is certainly not intended to be imprisonment. It is intended to give the child time to calm down, and to abruptly halt unacceptable behavior. I am not a big fan, except for the fact that it can give the parent time to calm down & may prevent less appropriate (ok, in MY opinion, less appropriate) means of behavior control. The fact that parents choose to use it or see it as retributive doesn't mean that using time out is or isn't effective as far as its intended application. Truth is, if the parent is out of control, it CAN be punishment, but being physically held down, if that is the only way one can enforce time out, negates the premise. In any case, as far as I am concerned, time out is not a natural consequence, and I never said it was; it is merely a gentler approach to behavior control, part of discipline, character building in that it can result in patience & self control (if it works; I wouldn't know).

Since you asked, it would seem logical that the consequence of screaming would be that the child would not get whatever it is that they are screaming for. They will eventually (yes, eventually, learned behavior is hardly ever instantaneous) learn the proper way to get what they desire, if the parent chooses to teach them, whether it be by politely asking, or they will learn patience & working toward a goal, or they will learn that you can't always get what you want. That is up to the parent and may be age related. At least that is what makes the most sense to me.
Removing them from the situation serves a purpose, that of sparing those around them from auditory assault, but that is not the teaching portion of the exercise of taking them out of the mall. Teaching nearly always involves talking, I suppose. Control is instantaneous, teaching is not.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 107
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/9/2009 11:37:43 PM
[I only used your logic. Everything I said was something you've said in this thread, except that the words adult and child were reversed and jail used instead of spanking. I just wanted you to understand what you're saying to me]

Excuse me, but NOTHING you've said was what I said. Exchanging child for adult makes a world of difference, as the world is entirely different for a child. It is the responsibility of adults to teach children, not vice versa. Although there is quite a lot to be learned from children, proper behavior is not usually modeled by children.

[See what I mean about conflicting logic? In one breath you say spanking isn't always wrong, yet here you insinuate it's not civilized. You have absolutely no consistency. Say what you will about my defense of spanking, but at least I am consistent. I don't jump from appearing as a moral authority down to a mild tolerance of an act I so vehemently oppose in an effort to save face on both sides of the fence]

I have consistently stated that I don't think that spanking is always wrong, or always abuse. It is you who defended spanking as a means of teaching. I don't agree, and I don't have to. I firmly believe, as a result of experience & research, that the physical ALONE, even if it teaches a child how not to behave around a particular person, does not teach a child HOW TO behave. The lesson learned, that you don't piss off someone stronger than you, is not completely invalid, but it is not invaluable. I have also repeatedly stated that my more vehement arguments against it were directed at those who advocated beating versus a swat. The application of physical force to get someone to stop doing what you don't want them to do, or to punish them for doing so has been deemed uncivilized by society, not by me, that is why it is punishable by law. I am saying, very clearly, that I don't think spanking is meant to be, nor is it, an effective teaching tool, not that I vehemently oppose it as a rare means of instantaneous behavior control (control, not modification). Tolerance, understanding & plain old common sense is not an effort to save face. Life is not black & white.

[I am merely defending any parent's right to discipline their children in a manner they see fit so long as they don't cross any lines. I would be saying the same things if people were talking about groundings, time-outs... anything other than medication.]

You are entitled to do so, but to some extent parents do NOT have the right to "discipline" their children as they see fit, whether you like it or not, and not because of me. Some parents scald their children, or tie them up, as they see fit. Do you think they are within their rights? Do YOU draw the lines? This is not a discussion about discipline vs. abuse, it is a discussion about teaching proper behavior. Actually, it is supposed to be a discussion about the relation between spanking and IQ, which is at least more closely related to spanking as a method of teaching.

{No... others are.}

Please reread your post 265, wherein YOU referred to the natural consequence of ABUSE. You compared the punishment of adults to that of children. That makes sense to you?! Really? I am left to wonder if you feel that anyone should be able to show their dissatisfaction with the behavior of another via physical measures, so long as they see fit. After all, you referred to women hitting men who were rude as acceptable. Is it proper behavior to strike a man (or anyone) simply because they are rude? Inaction against the one who strikes out physically says more about the one who is accepting of this behavior than you may want to admit. More akin to discussion of abusive ADULT relationships, as far as I am concerned. Is it acceptable for a man to strike another man who says something rude to them? Is the consequence for rude verbiage a slap or punch? You don't have to agree with me, but using your logic, if this is acceptable between parent & child, isn't it also acceptable between husband and wife, or any adult? My argument is that retribution is the consequence for adults who should know better, not for children who need to be guided and taught acceptable behavior.

[So then what you're saying is that SOMETIMES it's right for a parent to not enact disiplinary measures in order to satisfy their desire to be controlling and self-serving? Doesn't really make much sense to me, but ok.]

Actually, that is not what I'm saying, but I will replace "right" with understandable, not as a disciplinary measure, as once again, I don't believe that it teaches proper behavior. It does, however, stop a particular intolerable behavior instantaneously, the desired result of hitting a child (usually, until it is done so often that it has little effect). I'm surprised that it makes no sense to you, as you feel it is okay for one adult to hit another in response in to disrespectful words, ie. the woman who slaps a man or kicks him in the groin for inappropriate speech directed at her.


[So then why have jail? Jail is the same as a spanking.] It is retribution. It is punishment. If everyone is as smart as you believe...
Why? Because just like spanking, it is a consequence for one's actions. Every household has rules. If you break those rules, there is a consequence. Whether it's spanking, a time-out, grounding... many households utilize more than just one. Likewise, in society, our laws are the rules. Break them and there are consequences, such as jail, fines, etc.
What parents teach their children is that they do not suffer any consequences if they don't break those rules. Imagine for a moment the consequence for yelling at your parents was "I am so angry!" "Oh no! Please don't get angry with me mom! Whatever will I do? Oh I know! I'll just go do it again because I don't really give a shit if you're angry... I'm having fun. F*ck you! F*ck you! F*ck you!"]

Jail is most certainly not the same as spanking! A consequence that doesn't teach is not discipline, it is retribution, just as I have quoted you, payback, not a method of teaching proper behavior. There is a difference, as your words attest to. Retribution is payback, not meant to teach proper behavior, and is applied to adults only for this reason. It is assumed that they already know how to behave properly! It also (admittedly temporarily) protects victims, spanking protects no one.

Truth is, for the very young child, a parents' getting angry with then is akin to their withholding love, and it has a rather strong effect on them. Proper behavior that is meant with praise also teaches kids, although there has not been much discussion of that.

[if every child can be reasoned with, then it should stand to reason that every adult can also be reasoned with. You've stated spanking should not exist because it teaches nothing, and it's not used to discipline adults. Jail also teaches nothing, and it's not used to discipline children, so why does it exist?]

It should stand to reason? True only if every child WERE reasoned with as a means of teaching proper behavior. For the life of me, I simply can not understand why you continue to speak of children and adults as if they are equal. They are not, which is why jail is not used to discipline children. If they were, you would be charged with assault each time you spanked your child. I do believe that every child (except for those with diminished capabilities) can be reasoned with, although not in a particular moment, thus the reason, although not necessity, for a swat as a means of control until the discussion which results in learning can take place. Of course, a 1 yr-old is not capable of reasoning equal to that of a 5 yr-old or a 10 yr-old; neither is he/she capable of learning from physical means; control is the intent, even if it's not admitted, at that age. Adults are not jailed to learn nor to build character, they are jailed for offenses that society has deemed punishable by loss of freedom, which has very different meanings for a child and an adult.

I never said that spanking should not exist, merely that it doesn't teach kids proper behavior. Jail exists, as I understand it, as a means for those who break laws to "pay their debt to society", although it wasn't invented by me, and I don't see how it is pertinent, as the two year old who writes on the wall or calls mommy stupid is not the equivalent of one who who brandishes a gun to obtain money from a gas station cashier or assaults another.

I am, quite simply, tired of arguing. We don't all have to agree, but we do all have something to bring to the table. Choose to take from it what you will. I am comfortable with my choices. You can rest assured that I will not raise my hand to you in an effort to "teach" you that my way is THE way.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 108
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/10/2009 9:28:16 PM
Well, that guy, it appears we are in (nearly) complete agreement, then, and can agree to disagree on fairly minor points.. I have no reason to single you, out, it's simply that I won't be singled out without response. I am not here to play judge & jury. I believe that these forums can be used for education, and should not be used for mere argument. Let's get married!
 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 110
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/11/2009 9:01:48 PM
Alright, I am not even going to pretend I have the time or energy to read all of the posts in this thread. I have 4 that are very unruly and downright wild on most days, without any sugar. I did spank them when they deserved it. And my 7 year old is extremely intelligent. She is in second grade, but reads books like Goosebumps, and Harry Potter with no issues. She loves it. So IMO spanking is not going to affect a child's IQ.

I did have to stop spanking my kids for the time being though, because I have a 1 yr old that likes to hit everything he can, no matter who or what it is. And it's usually with a sippy cup or toy of some sort. I couldn't very well spank him for hitting, number one I think he is too youg for spankings, and number too it would kind of defeat the purpose of telling him how bad it is to hit people. For a little while I could still spank my other kids, but it has gotten to the point that he was copying me, so I spanked one, he would go over and hit them. So I use a lot of timeouts and the naughty chair. I have also started taking away toys and other privileges and I am just starting to ground my oldest, depending on her infraction.

To be honest, I would rather do it like this. They learn that there are consequences for their actions still, but I don't have to deal with all the screaming and yelling and fighting that ensues for a spanking. Which means my stress level is lower.
 8soldierfalcon8
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 111
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/12/2009 8:15:25 AM
You know, something just occurred to me.

I guess I should not find it surprising that so many people find spanking to be so terrible..... in the single parent forum!

I am curious as to whether or not the ratio of people for and against would be different if this were posted in a different forum.

You know, it's one of the more common stereotypes about single mothers that they tend to be far too lenient on their kids and act as a "friend" rather than a "parent". I think their could be some truth to this. I am single now and my dog is my buddy. In the absense of a relationship, I could definitely see a lonely mother treating her child differently than she would if she were married with another adult to talk to in the home.

Just a thought. Don't crucify me for it.

-8sf8
 8soldierfalcon8
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 112
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/12/2009 8:22:38 AM
^^^ Talking at me when I was a kid was completely pointless. It's why I didn't respect my teachers and I didn't respect my mom after I got big enough that she could not hurt me anymore.

All children are totally different. Some can be taught by talking and logic.

Some like to kill things and set fire to things, and generally be disagreeable little a-holes like my brother and all of my little friends growing up.

Words fall on deaf ears unless it's backed up by force with those kids.

-8sf8
 8soldierfalcon8
Joined: 2/16/2009
Msg: 113
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/12/2009 8:33:25 AM
^^^ You are very, very lucky to have your daughter then.

If I ever have children, I sincerely hope to get agreeable little people who recognize logic and act sanely.

However, especially if I have biological children and did not adopt.... that would probably not happen.

Just remembering how all the little boys acted I grew up with makes me shudder. Especially in our very, very sue-happy society now, I really don't want to be saddled with a child who likes to destroy things and be a malicious little a-hole.

This is part of my reluctance to consider having children of my own. I really don't want to be the father of Denace the Menace.

-8sf8
 big pacific
Joined: 7/2/2009
Msg: 115
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/13/2009 9:49:48 AM

I am curious that you admit you had no respect for your mother when you got big enough that she couldn't hurt you anymore. Did you ever have respect for her? I may be reading too much into it but I assume that your mother did hurt you before you got too big.....could that be why you didn't show respect for authority figures?

I find it interesting that you chose a military career which requires respect for those in authority....a blind respect nonetheless.


I actually posted on this a while back. So you are saying that a lack of respect for his mom led him into a profession where respect and loyalty are expected?

I don't want every kid in america to be raised the same way. The freedoms and differences we have make us different. I WANT people like SF8 defending me, i DON'T want some kid that was tought that "hitting is never right" defending me abroad.

SOMETIMES people NEED to get hit. There's no if's and's or but's about it. What happened after hitler "negotiated" a peace treaty with poland? SOME times we need to smack a biatch. For that reason WE NEED people that understand that violence is sometimes not only justified, but REQUIRED.

Who do you want defending you when the enemy is at the gate, SF8 or Bob Ross talking about happy trees and positive reinforcement.
 SweetnessInFlorida
Joined: 6/26/2008
Msg: 116
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:21:41 PM

My son is not even 2 yrs old yet, and he already knows his ABCs, in the process of potty training, knows what animal is what, knows the difference between his clothing. It's amazing, so if you honestly think that spanking can lower your IQ, your crazy
What on [n] Gods Green Earthwould you spank a two year old for?
Im not into spanking but if a huge offense is commited might bust a can of whoop ass open, but TWO? Did he read barney too loud? Cry? Poop his diaper? Thats a joke right? Hopefully? Im sure he is a bright boy but bright kids can be emotionally damaged as well as dumb ones.




I bought my first house 2 months ago and i'm only 24. Apparently i've done somehing right, don't you think? Alot of people can't get houses until later on in life or when they get married. I did it all on my own (I sound so great! haha jk)
Thats fabulous for you, but ummm, wht does home owenership and hitting a 2 year old have to do with one another? if you own your house you should beat your toddler?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 117
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/14/2009 8:50:09 PM
Thank you, sweetness!

Sad to say, my prior participation in this thread has shown me that no study, nothing others say, no statistics, no experts will change the mind of those who believe that it is their right to hit their child. I have yet to see anyone show HOW it teaches a child, particularly a young child, or to admit that, when you hit a young child it is serves no purpose other than to make you feel better, and in control. Sadly, many parents seem to need this & to feel vindicated simply because they are able to do so to a smaller, somewhat defenseless human being. I am fairly certain that no child has learned their alphabet nor their colors by being spanked.

I agree that talking, and for the very young child especially, modeling is how children learn, despite whatever method you think you employ to teach them. The difference between taking away a privilege & spanking, in addition to explaining what they did wrong & why it is wrong, is that those things teach actual consequences (thus "let the punishment fit the crime. As I have said before, there is no other context except the parent/child relationship in which physical action against another is an acceptable consequence in society.

Spanking is about humiliation & being controlled. It doesn't FEEL any different to a child than to an abused spouse., and it doesn't teach a thing about acceptable behavior in a civilized society.
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