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 ValkyrieHJR
Joined: 8/8/2009
Msg: 118
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?Page 4 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
I have to agree with Conscious. But it is not something that is easy to do. It takes a lot of patience. I think that a lot of parents today spank because it seems like a quick solution to a problem that really does take a long time to overcome.

I do have to admit that spanking does have it's place, but too many people use it too often. I was spanked as a child. My children have been spanked. But you have to make sure the punishment fits the crime and I would recommend that spanking be the last resort and never done in anger. If you think that you are spanking your child in anger, then go with another punishment.

Just my 2 cents.
 dolphinlvr36
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 120
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:05:12 PM
[the spanking i used to recieve taught me discipline and later on when i was a teenager, self respect. I work my arse off for eveything i have and everything i will have and one of the reasons of that was due to my parents via verbal communication and spanking... people say "no you can't spank your child" well.. considering it has been going on for several thousand years and we have built a mass civilisation that is quite advanced.. i wouldn't say it is a bad thing.. they need to know their boundaries and saying "stop that" etc isn't enough..because they won't stop it lol.]

or perhaps the reason you turned out so well was because of other factors, not the fact you were spanked? Makes you think doesn't it?
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 122
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:16:38 PM
I am thankful for people like conscioussoul & meplustwo!

[Perhaps the people you speak of are rational, intelligent and compassionate people who simply are not persuaded by the studies and opinions which have been offered. Or don't you consider that possible?]

Perhaps not.... you don't have to be persuaded by studies, but you surely lack compassion if you look into the eyes of a two year old who has just had a belt taken to them for writing on the wall with crayons, after being handed a box of them. How in the world could one expect a two year old to know that those crayons are ONLY to be used on paper, if YOU DON'T TELL (and supervise) THEM?!?!

I am not, and I have made it perfectly clear, should you choose to read this entire thread, judging all those who choose to "spank" as a means of causing a particularly unacceptable behavior to immediately cease . My words are directed at those who advocate physical means, particularly against the very young, as a means of teaching children appropriate behavior, and defend it by stating that their children are "smart". Can it be proven that those smart kids would not be moreso had they not been hit? Not likely, but either way, it doesn't negate the responsibility of parents to educate themselves about parenting, and it certainly doesn't prove that raising your hand to a child TEACHES anything at all. That is my point, and those are the people to whom I speak. Should you deem it compassionate, rational & intelligent to employ an "azz whoopin' to a toddler, I feel sorry for you, but not as sorry as I feel for your offspring.


[I don't think any posters have asserted that spanking accelerates growth of grey matter or raises IQ]

There are several who have participated in this thread who have stated that they absolutely believe that hitting a child is discipline, teaches proper behavior, and builds character (not in those words, perhaps, but, frankly, I believe that it is likely that they lack the capacity to recognize the definition of such). In a discussion regarding intelligence and learning, what else is pertinent? Truth is, do any of us believe that being under stress doesn't hamper the "growth of grey matter"? Do you believe that the threat of being assaulted (yes, assaulted) for an unknown offense (ex. writing on the wall with the crayons you were handed by the attacker?, who claims to love you?!) doesn't put you under stress, when you are TWO?!?! Those people do exist, and I have read their posts here, and it is them I address, not the parent who may occasionally feel it necessary to slap their eight year for the offense of disrespect.

[I assume you mean to say that taking away a privilege teaches an 'actual consequence'. Which privilege do you suggest I take away from my two year old when he acts inappropriately? ]

I think that a two year doesn't conceptualize "privilege"; their world is very small. It revolves around them, and wanting to please YOU, to the extent that you show them the reward for doing so (at that age, a hug & a kiss for good behavior is a good way for them to learn. The consequence of reward is probably more of a teaching tool at that age than the removal of a privilege. If they speak disrespectfully, a lesson in speaking appropriately, via reading a book on the subject of respect (there are many children's books related to the subject matter) or speaking to them (again, age appropriate), might suffice. Not all infractions require punishment; some require lessons, which result in teaching, I would think. These things do , however, require effort & loss of free time by the parent, which far too many parents are not willing to sacrifice, or are willing to dismiss. As far as I am concerned this is the problem, and where physical means of "teaching"/punishment becomes a problem. It is the lazy way out, self serving, far too convenient, and as far from intelligent & compassionate as one can get.

I apologize if I come on strong, and I certainly don't claim to be an expert, but I do have strong feelings on the subject & I object vehemently to some of the things I have read and seen. Parenting a child is the greatest responsibility one can take on, and I see far too many selfish people excusing irresponsible, lazy behavior & defending their ignorance of child rearing by stating that the experts know nothing. They say they believe that they are "disciplining" their children, all the while doing nothing but being selfish. The result is the kids that MY kids deal with in our public schools on a daily basis. A sad commentary on society, if you ask me.
 dolphinlvr36
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 123
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/15/2009 9:20:24 PM
ok, i did not read every single reply to this post, but i feel the need to put my 2 cents in.

My opinion is that spanking does not teach a child that what they did is wrong. It teaches the kid to fear being hurt for doing something, and teaches them that it is ok to hit other people to solve problems. That is just logical. How many stories and statistics do we hear about abuse issues, and it never fails that the person doing the abusing was abused as a child. Now, what i'm not saying here is that all kids who are spanked means they were abused.

Kids go through stages of development physically and mentally. What might be obviously wrong to an adult (drawing on walls) may not necessarily equate to wrong to a young child unless they have been taught it is wrong. Someone earlier on here mentioned that they form the punishment around what was done wrong. Now THAT is teaching the child that what they did was wrong, and that THIS is what we do instead. All spanking does is give the parent control over the child and is a "quick fix". How many times do we find ourselves spanking our children over and over for the same thing? (temper tantrum, acting out in public)

There is documentation of students being seriously injured, and in some cases dieing, from a routine paddling from their teacher/principal. I was paddled in school for something i didn't do, and still to this day I have issues because of it.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 124
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/16/2009 9:18:15 PM
[Those people do exist, and I have read their posts here, and it is them I address, not the parent who may occasionally feel it necessary to slap their eight year for the offense of disrespect.
[Does that mean that an occasional slap is effective - and warranted when “necessary”?]


[I totally disagree with the above poster. Whoever wrote this is confusing respect with fear.]

I am not confusing respect with fear, as I don't believe that hitting another human being ever results in respect! I am merely recognizing that a parent may slap a child without being abusive as a general rule. We all make mistakes, but the inability to recognize them as such compels me to "ante up" my two cents.I have stated, many times, my personal belief that hitting a child is an action taken by a parent FOR the parent, as a means to gain control (or as an outlet, to feel better) at a particular moment, and that it is never a teaching mechanism. Having been "attacked", I felt the need to state that I have some empathy for the parent who "loses it", and that it can be effective as a means of regaining control IN THE MOMENT, but I firmly believe that spanking is not "warranted". We are human, as such, we make mistakes. The inability to recognize that raising a hand to children, particularly young children, and further stating that one believes it is the preferred method of "teaching" a child acceptable behavior is lazy & self serving, never warranted, and I never said that it was.

I don't participate in these forums to preach, nor do I do so in order to find myself having to defend my words, taken out of context. I remain hopeful that at least one person will take the opinions & information posted here as food for thought, even if they are unwilling to admit it to strangers.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 125
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/17/2009 5:56:06 AM
Having had a good night's sleep, I am less inclined to be serious, so... would you be my baby's daddy?

Seriously, your posts renew my faith in the world. You rock!
 lonewarrior629
Joined: 4/16/2009
Msg: 128
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/22/2009 5:36:54 PM
I spank my daughter, not often and definetly not for a squable in wall mart lol.

Punishment has to be given when a child does something wrong. Consequences for actions must be tought somehow.

To learn the difference is up to parents not children. It's a hard call, but sometimes when a child will not learn from any other experience a slap on the but, out of love not anger is sometimes the only answer.

Hence the old expresion this is going to hurt me more than its going to hurt you.

I cry every time I have to give my daughter a spanking.

Lonewarrior629
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 129
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/22/2009 9:00:40 PM
purpose what the hell are you talking about?! Truth is, you may have a point, regarding the study, and it IS the topic originally presented, but this thread has become about so much more.

Stacey, thank you, as you have clearly been on both sides of the fence, and have at the very least attempted more than one method, and learned from your experiences.

As for me, I cannot read some of these posts without wondering how in this society, where there isso much information available , parents will outright CHOOSE ignorance. Educate yourselves, try various methods, then decide what works. I cannot help but feel that so many are so lazy or unwilling to admit errors that they will not not even concede that there may be some validity to anothers' point of view.

Lonewarrior, I apologize in advance for singling you out but it is your post:
{Punishment has to be given when a child does something wrong. Consequences for actions must be tought somehow.}

Agreed that consequences must be taught. I fail to see however, how hitting a child teaches consequences. If your child misbehaves at school are they hit? If you misbehave at work, are you struck by your boss? When you hit your child for behaving in a manner which you deem inappropriate, how exactly do you think that the spanking teaches the child anything at all? I have admitted that I have given my children a swat or two in their lifetimes, but I have never excused my behavior by explaining it as a way of teaching them anything at all, much less the consequence for the action that resulted in the swat. Consequences for actions are taught by applying consequences which result from those action; removal of the privilege which was taken advantage of, for example. The rules of logic are fairly simple, even while realizing that the logic of children isn't always, well, logical. It is up to us, as parents, to teach them, and to do so at age appropriate levels.


[To learn the difference is up to parents not children. It's a hard call, but sometimes when a child will not learn from any other experience a slap on the but, out of love not anger is sometimes the only answer.}

The slap merely ceases behavior in the moment, it teaches not a thing about HOW TO behave properly. Frankly, I don't understand how one could think that it does, but, you said it, to learn the difference is up to the parent.

{I cry every time I have to give my daughter a spanking.]

You don't HAVE to spank your child, you choose to!
Earlier in the thread, someone referred to the fact that what we infer from a child's actions is merely our interpretation of their thought process, and we interpret as adults. Children are not adults; they do not think as adults do. They are not cunning or manipulative at 2 years of age, even if the thought of them being so makes us feel better about raising a hand to them. I am sorry, but I firmly believe that refusing to accept this is laziness & the choice to remain ignorant. There is much to be said for the parent as model. How many participants in this discussion have mentioned the fact that they were spanked as defense against spanking?

If you cry when you hit your child, what do you think it is that makes you cry? Clearly, you are hurting yourself as well as hurting the one you love. What good do you really think can come of that, and the relationship that YOU are responsible for building? Model that behavior, and you can rest assured that if she(he) is abused later in life by someone she loves, and claims to love her, she will lay blame on herself.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 131
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/23/2009 10:46:26 PM
propurpose, God forgive me, but, ... you are so smart, yet fairly unintelligible! Please provide a translator.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 132
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/24/2009 5:09:15 PM
propurpose, I don't know how your making these multiple posting (5 ina row) but I'm sure it's against pof rules. And just so you know we all speak english. You seem to be talking to yourself cause I'm not sure anyone understands you, I'know my trying is giving me a headache.
 Matthew__Angel
Joined: 11/23/2007
Msg: 136
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 4:26:23 PM
I could not even imagine disrespecting my son by hitting/slapping/spanking him. He has never been physically reprimanded in his 10 year life.

I love him, I explain to him, I reinforce him, I educate him... but I would cut off my own hand before using it to cause him pain.

There is nothing that time and love and devotion can't fix. Hitting is a demeaning and sad way to parent in my opinion. Spend a few years in the school system and you become able to point out the children who are hit/spanked.

I encourage any parent to please think twice before doing it again.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 137
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/25/2009 7:48:36 PM
Causing kids "grief" is very different than causing them to feel demeaned, humiliated and unloved.

This thread has been beaten to death (as, unfortunately are some children), but I am happy to say that I have finally seen some acknowledgment that hitting children, even though the occasional swat may be understandable (even if not productive) is simply not the best way to teach a child social adeptness.
 Matthew__Angel
Joined: 11/23/2007
Msg: 138
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 6:33:09 AM
Sounds like a lot of parents feel that perhaps they don't have enough in their heads to raise their children so they end up hitting them out frustration.

Let me turn a previous posters question around.... HOW DOES THE PARENT feel while/after physically attacking their children? I'm sure you would find that child slapers/hitters all have one thing in common... The lack of sufficient intelligence to get a child to behave without attacking them.

Patterns. All about patterns.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 140
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 7:41:53 AM
Taken soul, I to have reformed from spanking. It was all I knew (learned from my parents) but from going to my support groups when I got the kids I learned there are other ways. I have to admit that I tend to follow supernanny's ways.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 142
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:24:29 AM
I don't agree with all her ways but some of the ideas are good, I just change them up a bit. Her bed time methods worked for me and the house rules and schedules and routines helped. I use time out as a cool down time more than a punishment then sit and discuss the problems, etc.
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 144
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/26/2009 8:34:23 AM
I try to set an hour a night playing with the kids and all day staurday we go to the beach or park or something.
 dolphinlvr36
Joined: 8/30/2008
Msg: 145
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:22:39 PM
*Spanking is fine, because it is barely anything.. a slight tap.. end of story really*

So, if it's barely anything, it's probably not even effective....so why even do it?
 singlesuperdad
Joined: 8/26/2009
Msg: 146
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/27/2009 5:59:57 PM
not that I condone, but some do light spanking to get their attention so they will have their complete attention when speaking to them and not as a punishment.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 148
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/29/2009 8:24:18 PM
propurpose, I have decided that you are nearly as insightful as you are indecipherable.

Yes, we hurt the most those we love the most. That is not an excuse, although the fact that you can see the good in those who do so is heartening. Frankly, I find it a shame to be so enlightened. Peace to you.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 151
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2009 10:09:48 PM
[so...to "see the good" is "heartening" but to be aware or with that knowledge is "shame" to the respondent. a contradiction which invite perception of two purposes in the respondent. a.) ... to congratulate me on my talent at seeing good where others see not good ..which translates as an unspoke "i am gratefull and accept you for that effort/experience/practice" ...followed by the non-accepting shame of someone (me or the respondent) which had seen some enlightenment (knowledge/truth).]

My words were not meant to offend at all. There is a difference between shame, which breaks down one's self esteem, and referring to something as "a shame" The realization that someone you love, who does love you, knows not how to show that love without causing you harm, IS a shame, shame on them, and a shame that you had to come to that realization at all. I may be wrong, but I believe that you see good not where others do not, but in spite of that which is not good. The fact that you were able to rise above it is a testament to the kindness of your soul, (not to mention being fortunate enough to possess the intelligence & logic to see the wrongdoing) but there are many whose self esteem has been so lowered that they believe that they deserve to be treated thusly, and treat their own children the same; they believe it is a part of love, rather than the inability to express love or to parent. I suspect that your own children (if you have them, or will in the future) will not know such shame, and I think you'd agree that they are fortunate for that. One has no need to be so enlightened.
 letscnow
Joined: 5/10/2008
Msg: 153
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 3:56:40 AM
Look at what has happened since we quit spanking our children. Everywhere you go, there are children who disrespect there mothers. The children are telling parents what to do. The grades of school children are getting worse, whats the penalty they face if they get an "F" ? They would probally get a bribe from their mother --- pick up your grade and i'll get you that new game you want. So the question is, does spanking work "Hell Yeah", bring it back I say.
 freetime2bme
Joined: 1/16/2006
Msg: 154
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 6:48:39 AM
letscnow your last post brought tears to my eyes......such a beautifully written and so "human" a post is not often seen in these parts..... keep them coming does spanking work hell yeah
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 160
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 7:10:19 PM
I believe that love can be unconditional, and that respect and trust works both ways. In anycase, it is the responsibility of the parent to guide the relationship that grows between a parent and a child. To put such responsibility on a child, who has no experience in such matters prior to your teaching them, seems preposterous.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 161
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 8:56:17 PM
itsallinthesoul, thanks! You seem like a good mom!

I have to respond to a few points that have been brought up:

We most certianly have NOT stopped spanking our children. Ask any kid, even if their parents won't admit to it. What we have stopped doing is parenting. Parenting is teaching, modeling behavior & applying consequences that fit specific behaviors. People have become lazy & selfish, choosing to spend their time in pursuit of the McMansion, and not spending time directing their children & participating in their lives. The lame excuse for doing so is the purported "need" for children to feel as if everything they endeavor must result in a sense of accomplishment The result is that they do not see that failure is a part of success. Participation in any activity results in receiving a medal; whole language has replaced phonics, and "creative spelling" is acceptable. This is why children have become unruly, imo.

[I see it as an ungrateful child who wanted her way and decided that court would be a good idea. It's a shame the mom didn't step in before it got to that point as well. But I brought up this whole ordeal as part of the "parenting" issue. If taking a parent to court over grounding is even an option, then what does the future of parenting have in store for us who just want to do the right thing? We know our kids... and we're the ONLY ones who know our kids. Therefore when it comes down to discipline, we are the only ones who know what will work and what doesn't work. ]

Gratefulness is not inherent, it is taught. It is likely that the child in this case was granted her sense of entitlement by one or both of her parents, likely in an effort to "get back" at the other, or as the result of a power struggle. If you suggest that administering a spanking would have made a difference, then I suggest you are merely finding defenses for your position. From your other posts, hooked, you have shown that, while you advocate spanking, you don't often find it necessary. Your own words disprove that which you are defending. No one, child or adult, is perfect, and I find it hard to believe that anyone has grown personally from being hit.

As far as being taken to court, sure it seems ridiculous, but who hires the civil rights attorneys to defend their child's "right" to wear whatever they want in an educational environment? The same parents who tell their kids to "suck it up" when they are afraid to take the bus to school. that's who. Many a dollar is spent promoting defiance, then we blame it on the fact that parents don't hit their kids? Our children are being misguided when it comes to civil rights Parents refuse to hold a child back who is well below grade level "so as not to hurt their self esteem", resulting in the rest of the class being forced to endure that child's disruptive behavior, and making it more difficult for them to learn.

All else aside, there is a huge difference between giving a child a swat on the rear, and using corporal punishment as a teaching mechanism.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 162
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2009 9:47:54 PM
[The OP of this post got it dead on. Spanking your child and abusing them are too different things. Children know how far to take it and want to see if they can go a little bit further which they soon find out that they can't when they have been warned once too many times and that they are about to be spanked.

I have spanked my kids when they deserved it and they are fine. The only times it becomes ridiculous and a poor attempt at disciplining your child when they get older and spankings no longer work. I have also taken away the things that my children loved the most like video games, television privileges, and such and it works for me and them.]

Agreed, there is a difference between a swat & abuse but this thread has taken many turns. "Deserved" & "they are fine" are very subjective; is there ever a time, as adults, when hitting someone is "deserved"?. I differ about the "the only time it becomes ridiculous" being when they are older. Much of the vehement posts regarding spanking were directed at those who hit toddlers. Toddlers most certainly do NOT "know how far to take it". Many of those, myself included, are arguing the fact that spanking teaches. Even if children learn that doing something will result in a spanking, do you believe that they learn the alternative, appropriate behavior through the spanking itself?
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