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 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 163
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?Page 5 of 22    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22)
[and i love you.

come.....hither]

Chilling. Much like the husband who brings home roses after blackening his wife's eye. I believe that this is the danger in spanking, and that the "slippery slope" theory often applies. You are teaching the person who loves you the most, whom you purport to love the most, that it is acceptable to hurt someone you love, even sometimes their own fault (deserved). Learning, no matter what we may tell ourselves, begins by modeling, and the lessons die hard. Thus begins a cycle of abuse.
 ohwhynot46
Joined: 6/28/2009
Msg: 164
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Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 11/1/2009 8:43:03 PM
propurpose, I was not directing my words at you, merely commenting on their effect on me! I thought it perfectly clear that I view you as a kindhearted & wise man, and that we are not in disagreement at all. Your thoughts open the eyes and hearts of those who are willing to let in light; I respect you, even if I find your communication difficult to interpret.

I do not believe that I am on both sides of the fence, either. I am cognizant of the fact that we are all human, and we all make mistakes. I also believe that there are those who have laid a hand on their children and recognize that it is not the right thing to so, nor do they defend it as a method of discipline or teaching. It is the choosing to repeat those mistakes that results in abuse, and your post reminded me of that. I thank you for it.
 Studybreak
Joined: 1/22/2011
Msg: 166
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/27/2011 5:00:07 AM
Spanking children is NOT good...very bad...

Spanking is sexually tied...
 dad2stay
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 167
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/27/2011 1:46:51 PM
LOL spanking is sexual, spanking makes kids dumb wow,

funny thing is until about 20 years ago when spanking your children came under fire by protective services there were less drugs, less rapes, less kid violence, less murders, less everything negative to do with kids

No fear = no respect

When I was younger all my mom had to say was " wait until your father gets home" and Id stop instantly and tell her how sorry I was and funny thing is he never had to hit me just had to make me thing he would

Same goes with anything

fear your partner leaving = chances are you wont cheat

fear getting fired = chances are you wont show up late

fear getting killed = wont walk around half naked in the ghetto yelling your pocket is full of hundreds

We have been spanking kids for a millennium and had no issues until a few people took it to far and people decided no one should do it, Look how good its done us

After all since 1662 people have said and I quote "Spare the Rod,
and spill the Child." which at that time spare had an alternative spelling of Spill so you probably know it better as "Spare the Rod and Spoil the Child"
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 168
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/28/2011 12:38:38 PM

funny thing is until about 20 years ago when spanking your children came under fire by protective services there were less drugs, less rapes, less kid violence, less murders, less everything negative to do with kids


Please cite your sources.
 FlyyinSolo87
Joined: 6/15/2011
Msg: 169
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2011 10:35:37 AM
You know, reading this study makes me wonder... Did they study children with similar genes? Like have sets of twins that were adopted into separate families, where one family used spanking and one did not? The reason I ask this in my family, I have an IQ of about 130, my little sister has an IQ of 120, my older brother is about 105 and my older sister is 90. All with in the same family. My older brother was only spanked once, my older sister was spanked maybe about 3 or 4 times, and my litter sister was slapped once when she was 15 for mouthing off to my mother. I, however, was spanked probably about 3-4 per month from the time I was 5 till I was about 12 when my mother finally just gave up. My older sister has learning disabilities and wasn't spanked for the first time till she was 8, after she was already showing signs of learning disabilities. So if spanking supposedly lowers your IQ, shouldn't I be the dumbest one in my family?

Like others have said, this study is so flawed that a layman, such as myself, can see the holes in it. In order to do this study they really need to focus with in a family with similar genes. It would actually be better to use identical twins, because the genes are in fact the same. Other wise how would they know that it's not the genetics passed on to the child that make such variations in IQ. And honestly, 3-5 points in the right spot might mean something, like the difference between Low Intelligence and Borderline. However if you are talking IQ's above 100, that little bit of difference isn't going to show. What difference would there be between people with a 118 or a 121 IQ?
 dad2stay
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 170
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2011 5:01:44 PM
Fleuron

No study hun, my personal observations and google research. You take away a parents right to teach their kids you end up taking away the child's reason for listening to their parents

Now I cant say it is fact that anti spanking campaign is the sole cause for the downward spiral of society and the typical family but it has at least to me seemed to escalate since then

Kids today have too much idle time on their hands with little fear of consequences for their actions, most know that until they turn 18 they can do pretty much whatever they want without much consequence
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 171
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2011 5:45:27 PM
I asked you to cite your sources; I didn’t say anything about a study.

The site you access after googling is a source. Be careful of believing everything you read online. I would trust a source such as the Mayo Clinic…not so much Uncle Joe Bob’s blog.


Kids today have too much idle time on their hands


This I agree with.

Please don’t call me “hun”.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 172
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2011 5:47:37 PM
itsallinthesoul- I just read a study about a study that said 100% of the people who believe everything they read have REALLY low IQ's.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 173
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2011 6:02:03 PM
dad2stay- I agree.
This is a polarizing issue, we aren't likely to change the anti spanking crowds mind anytime soon.
I know the difference between a spanking and a beating.
I got spanked when I was growing up and you know what, what ever it was I did, I didn't do it again.
I am not going to be that person in the store who's child is yelling and screaming, at the table next to you with their kids running around being so annoying you can't enjoy dinner, or that you can't invite over because they have never been told no.
Children are children, they will push and test limits.
Some you will catch a break and they won't push that hard, others will push you as far as you let them.
A swat on the behind is not abuse.
Can you imagine the don't spank crown doing back in time and trying to sell this drivel to our grand parents?!!
It's NOT by chance that today's generation just does not have the respect that we grew up with.
I love my children with all my heart, but I haven't done my job or them any justice if I don't set limits and teach them that bad behavior has consequences.
I'd much rather have it be me when they are growing up than go visit them behind bars because I wouldn't step up and be a parent.
 bamagrl68
Joined: 11/14/2010
Msg: 174
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2011 6:06:24 PM
My last post should read "going back in time" and not "doing back in time".
 dad2stay
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 175
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2011 6:16:59 PM
Fleuron

Like I said PERSONAL OBSERVATIONS

As for google feel free to search yourself, its not that hard to type in adolescent crime statistics, or juvenile crime past 20 years etc, etc. etc.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 176
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/30/2011 9:28:16 PM
Spanking does for a childs development, what wife beating does for a marriage.
 dad2stay
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 177
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 6:07:00 AM
Would you mind showing your case studies where spanking a misbehaving child on the butt is the same as punching his/her mother in the face sweetness???

Or is this just your opinion?
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 178
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 7:36:05 AM
It is common sense. Slapping a child around is no better than slapping an adult around.
In fact, it is worse, because they are defenseless. Does hitting on a spouse make a happy home, strengthen your love & bond, & make for a happy marriage?

NO.

Same goes for ones children.

If my children misbehave, I... as the boss of the house, & the person they love & trust the most, can stop the behavior effectively without abusing them.

Children look to their parents/caretakers to be their protectors & their source of love, safety, & security. Hitting them does not fit into that equation.
 dad2stay
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 179
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 8:18:28 AM
No one said anything about slapping a child, the topic is spanking (that's open hand on butt)

The law and much of society says a hand on butt spanking in not only legal but not considered abuse nor mentally harmful, after all parents have been spanking their children since the beginning of time

I do however acknowledge that not all children need to be spanked and those who do do not require it every time they misbehave.

Just as with anything in life, just because a couple people abuse the process does not mean everyone has or will

The idea of a spanking at least to me and the way I was raised is to teach CHILDREN that there are consequences for their actions, this is why many countries even have corporal punishments for adults

I am sure you are going to reply that you can ground them, take away toys or activities, this does not work on every child, my own children could care less if they lose a toy, have to go to bed early or cant play at the park that day but if I say "do something or don't do something" or ill have to spank you, 9 times out of ten they will do what I ask without a fuss
 FlyyinSolo87
Joined: 6/15/2011
Msg: 180
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 9:11:21 AM
Sweetness, when I was a child, my mom would ground me, take my toys, restrict me, send me to bed without dinner, put me on time out, and anything else she could think of. I was not being abused, I was just so defiant that nothing she did could make me do what I was told. I refused to clean up my room, help with chores, stay out of my mother's possessions, or even stop fighting with my sister. I remember spending hours sitting with my sister holding her hand as punishment for fighting with her. Nothing worked on me. However with my son, a swift swat on the butt after he has repeatedly been told not to do something does sink the message in. My son is not abused. If fact, a swat on the put with an open hand is still legal. My son does not have any behavioral problems, but he is 4 and he will test and push the limits. I have learned that if I feel that I'm becoming to angry and my emotions are surging, that's when I step back and ask my mother to take over because I'm about to lose it. The difference between being abusive and disciplining your child is that most abusers don't step back before it's to late. They let their emotions get the best of them and end up hurting the child more than staying in control and simply giving one swift swat(not hard enough to hurt them, but enough to get the message). My son still knows he can trust me and that I will always protect him, but he also needs to understand that certain behaviors will not be tolerated.

Actually the one punishment that worked on me as a child was when my mom guilt tripped me.
 Elle_777
Joined: 1/25/2011
Msg: 181
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 9:46:43 AM
I have 3 young children. The only time they are ever spanked is if they are doing something dangerous. I do it to make a point. Anything else they do that deserves punishment, they receive a time out or some other non-violent method of discipline such as no dessert after dinner. To be honest, I think that spanking can easily turn to abuse if not done with precise care at the right time rather then every time a child does something wrong or if it is done simply because the parent wants to vent their anger. However, I do believe that in the average household, more abusive methods of discipline are present. You wouldn't believe how many times I hear of parents depriving their children of their basic needs as punishment or washing out their mouth with soap that could easily be swallowed to make the child sick. I applaud the parent who knows better than to unintentionally hurt their child due to bad disciplining choices. Sometimes it is appropriate to put off the punishment until you have calmed down and are thinking rationally. The punishment should fit the crime...the same form of discipline will not work in every situation. Unfortunately, children do not come with an owner's manual. Be creative, but be humane...these are your babies!
 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 182
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 9:55:18 AM
QueenBeeSweetness, I feel the same way.

If a grown man hit another adult, or someone else’s child, he’d be in the slammer. Violence and/or threats of violence is no way to raise children, IMO.

dad2stay:

funny thing is until about 20 years ago when spanking your children came under fire by protective services there were less drugs, less rapes, less kid violence, less murders, less everything negative to do with kids


This is the original quote I asked you to cite. YOU made the claim; YOU provide the sources. That’s how it works.

So, you "personally observed" drug use, rapes, murders, etc. committed by children who had not been spanked, for the past 20 years.

People are responding to you calmly. Why are you freaking out? You’re not going to change anyone’s mind, especially when you’re so hostile and make no sense. In fact, you’re doing a good job against your own argument.
 dad2stay
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 183
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 10:37:36 AM
Fleuron (Sigh)

Yes I have witnessed these things and no I cannot prove they were not spanked but as children of the past 20-30 years they have been exposed to the no spanking phenomenon in a society where i f a child doesn't like how they are punished they can have their parents arrested or at least investigated and scared away from punishing in the future

My experience is children are no longer children they are mini adults or at least try to live like them. it is truly sad

A) Murder: My brother and sister attended Santana HS when a classmate came to school and started killing and wounding his classmates with a firearm, I knew one of the victims who did not die and I built a website as a tribute to the children who did, I was at the school just before it occurred dropping them off

B) I do know several women who were molested or raped by other kids under the age of 18 (chances are you do too)

C) I also have witnessed CHILDREN, carrying knives, guns, and other weapons to school and other every day activities



studies, led by Dr. Marjorie Lindner Gunnoe, a developmental psychologist at Calvin College, affiliated with the Christian Reformed Church, in Grand Rapids, Mich., found that certain groups seemed to benefit from spanking. Spanking appeared to make the children of black mothers -- only the race of the mothers was surveyed -- and all children from 4 to 7 less aggressive over a five-year period, meaning that they reported getting into fewer fights in school.



Spanking can be effective on a short-term basis in getting children to change any negative behaviors that prompted the spanking.

Spanking has been shown to be most effective in 2- to 6-year-olds when used in conjunction with milder disciplinary methods, such as reasoning and time-outs.

In a study, mothers who combined reasoning with negative consequences (such as spanking) had the most success in changing negative behaviors. Dr. Phil (yea you know hiom lol)




The author of a new study says Children between the ages of two and six, who have been spanked tend to do better in school, do more volunteer work, have post-secondary aspirations and are more optimistic. That's according to research from Michigan's Calvin College.





Since 1964, the U.S. crime rate has increased by as much as 350%

CPS was established less than 10 years later and started the no spanking campaign

Just a couple thoughts and from my own parenting and job experiences in California

Putting your child's nose on the wall is considered corporal punishment

Sending a kid to bed without dinner (even if they refused to eat) is considered corporal punishment

Banning your child from their friends (even if you think they are bad influences) is considered corporal punishment

Spanking a child with anything but an open hand on butt is considered corporal punishment

Any form of corporal punishment is grounds for arrest or having your child removed from your home

Source: My experiences with CPS and what they have told me directly in regards to families I work with




 Fleuron
Joined: 8/18/2010
Msg: 184
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 11:00:24 AM
Okay, dad2stay... it doesn't change my opinion, but I do appreciate your effort.
 dad2stay
Joined: 8/11/2011
Msg: 185
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 11:55:48 AM
Oh Fleuron,

I am sorry but I think you misunderstood my stance

I would NEVER try to get someone to change how they do things merely because I choose to do it differently

I was simply giving my opinion on how i do things and the experiences that led to that decision

I am a firm believer that everyone is different and though their approach may work for them it does not necessarily mean it would work for anyone else
 Blondie_0421
Joined: 10/21/2011
Msg: 186
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 4:09:42 PM
This research is interesting. But did the researchers take into account mother's who smoked in pregnancy, peer reviewed research indicates that there is a high correlation between maternal smoking in pregnancy and lower IQ, the same for depression in pregnancy and temperamental children with lower IQ's, and a high correlation between low father involvement (hands on care and participation) and lower IQ and poor academic performance. Household income and education levels of the parent's must also be reported and we must consider the fact that these are self report measures and not all parents may be accurately reporting their spanking their children for whatever reason they may have.

As a parent of six children, I have and continue to use spanking in situations where it is vital to "stop" the child in his/her tracks. Each time there is an explanation as to why and a promise that if the same behavior is repeated there will be a spanking. It is important to never hit a child as punishment but as a disciplinary tool. My children all have average IQ's and perform very well in school. One college graduate, a 4.0 3rd year college student, B high schooler, and above average elementary schoolers.

Holding a BA in Psychology I recognize that studies can be biased to the side of the researchers preference and wanted outcome. A lot of research leaves more questions unanswered about the participants which are relevant to the study itself.
 QueenBeeSweetness
Joined: 9/23/2011
Msg: 187
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 10/31/2011 10:53:12 PM

You wouldn't believe how many times I hear of parents depriving their children of their basic needs as punishment or washing out their mouth with soap that could easily be swallowed to make the child sick.


Thats just disgusting, those poor babies. Some people should not have kids.
:( My heart breaks for children who are treated like that.

Seems to be a false dichotomy going on in this forum; just because one does not spank children does NOT mean that those children who are raised with other, gentler & loving, methods of discipline are going to grow up to be raging psycho's & criminals.
 FlyyinSolo87
Joined: 6/15/2011
Msg: 188
Does this change your mind about spanking your child?
Posted: 11/1/2011 6:31:30 AM
Queenbee, it does not mean that. In my personal opinion, there are far to many parents that think a 3 year old should know as much as them. I worked in Walmart and I saw so many parents coming through the check out line that were just oblivious parents. I remember I had one particular customer that came through and was complaining to me about how her 4 year old doesn't listen to her. And while she is complaining to me, another associate was pulling said 4 year old out of the ice freezer after having climbed in a was licking the glass. When it finally came to her attention, she turned around and yelled at her 10 year old for not watching the 4 year old. Or the countless parents I've had gossiping with me, while their child is trying to get their attention because they have to go potty, and instead of taking a break from the stranger they are conversing with to tend to their child, they put their had up to their child saying "not now honey I'm talking" 5-10 times before the child wets themselves. Then they punish the child for NOT telling them they had to go potty and wetting themselves.

I truly think that the difference between today, and when spanking was the norm, is that there are far less parents taking an active role in their child's discipline. I honestly think that as long as you discipline your child and you get your message across without abusing them, how you do it is your personal choice. Whether you spank or not.
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